IRC log of musicbrainz on 2003-10-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:04:08 [verus]
<- linux
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03:50:26 [alus]
hm, I don't suppose MB wrapped up their great mp3/ogg tag reading into a nice win32 CLI eh?
03:50:46 [alus]
* alus sighs at the lack of basic utilities for tag editing in win32
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06:09:11 [BigPhatWi]
Can someone here help me with a small problem I'm having w/ musicbrainz?
06:10:39 [BigPhatWi]
How can I get the program to write the tag even if it matches 100%? I want it to copy the album info and it isn't doing it.
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12:39:49 [orogor]
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12:39:52 [orogor]
hi
12:39:56 [orogor]
anyone here ?
12:40:11 [orogor]
have some questions
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13:03:23 [orogor]
hey
13:08:06 [orogor]
humm , anyone here ?
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13:35:50 [dmwaters]
{global notice} Hi all, it appears that one of our main hubs, including services is having some major problems. it is back for the time being, but I am going to do some major rehubbing to move the remaining servers off it till it is stable again.
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13:39:19 [orogorbis]
still nobody here?
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13:52:49 [dmwaters]
{global notice} Ok, things are done, and seem to be fine. I am currently looking into the problems with that eu hub.
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14:20:10 [orogorbis]
anyone could tell me how i should add an album made by 2 artist ?
14:20:30 [orogorbis]
would be stupide to add ( feat) to eatch trcks
14:20:41 [real_]
man i had same problem
14:21:32 [real_]
P3S/Bound For Glory/Beer Bottles and Hockey Sticks (feat. Mistreat):
14:21:33 [real_]
Bound For Glory - Beer Bottles and Hockey Sticks (feat. Mistreat) - 01 - Mistreat - Skinhead.mp3
14:21:39 [real_]
Bound For Glory - Beer Bottles and Hockey Sticks (feat. Mistreat) - 12 - Bound For Glory + Mistreat - Bright Side.mp3
14:22:10 [orogorbis]
humm
14:22:31 [orogorbis]
i ll see if i can catch one of those big contributors , and ask em what to do
14:22:34 [real_]
its like you stick it to the artist' that has more say in the album
14:22:46 [real_]
then the album would be 'album blah (feat. other artist)
14:22:56 [real_]
and then tracks are like main - track1, secondary - track2
14:22:58 [orogorbis]
they should add a forum in fact
14:23:05 [real_]
there is a mailing list and wiki
14:23:11 [orogorbis]
ohoh
14:23:19 [orogorbis]
perhaps i ll find answer there
14:23:27 [real_]
yea
14:23:27 [orogorbis]
<== never go on mail list
14:29:41 [mxpxpod]
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14:39:58 [orogorbis]
humm , justrealized something
15:19:31 [yalaforge]
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15:21:18 [orogorbis]
somone alive here ?
15:21:47 [yalaforge]
yes
15:22:23 [orogorbis]
cool
15:22:52 [orogorbis]
would u know how to add/moderate an anlbum , when it s done by 2 artist or more ?
15:23:20 [yalaforge]
file it under the first artist and put " (feat. other artist)" in the title of the album
15:23:58 [yalaforge]
currently, the underlying database scheme doesn't support a better solution
15:24:04 [real_]
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=120990
15:24:07 [real_]
thats how one is done
15:24:09 [orogorbis]
humm , that s what i thought
15:24:25 [orogorbis]
u should add one more table
15:24:41 [yalaforge]
see http://www.musicbrainz.org/style.html §4
15:25:08 [orogorbis]
are u a music brain developer ?
15:25:29 [yalaforge]
no, I'm just a moderator
15:25:34 [orogorbis]
humm
15:25:47 [orogorbis]
i would sugest em to add some JS to the left menu too
15:26:39 [yalaforge]
djce is the server programmer. You can either wait for him to appear or file a bug report
15:26:52 [real_]
he lives in uk
15:26:56 [orogorbis]
k
15:27:13 [orogorbis]
cause it s really painfull to navigate , u have to reload the page eatch time
15:27:23 [orogorbis]
using JS u don t have to
15:27:45 [yalaforge]
if you know JS, you could send djce a patch
15:28:10 [orogorbis]
humm good idee , but it s really like 2 lines to add
15:28:32 [yalaforge]
the most important thing is, however, that java script is no requirement. the site should work without it
15:28:36 [orogorbis]
, and even , there s a special tag u can use , that make u don t even have to use jS
15:28:53 [orogorbis]
just need to remember the tag
15:29:09 [yalaforge]
hm, special tags are evil IMHO. you never know which browser implements it
15:29:20 [orogorbis]
nah , it s a very old tag
15:29:43 [orogorbis]
evry browser should suport it , it s just than evryone forgot it
15:30:22 [orogorbis]
lleme ask my father , i know he use it
15:31:13 [orogorbis]
humm , he isn t in a good mood today , i better ask him later
15:31:40 [yalaforge]
:-) ok
15:32:17 [orogorbis]
humm , just been on his site, mozzila don t reconize the tag , too bad
15:32:37 [real_]
view source
15:34:15 [orogorbis]
it s <ul>
15:34:24 [orogorbis]
http://www.cofira.com/
15:34:42 [yalaforge]
that's the good old unordered list
15:35:16 [orogorbis]
mozz don t reconize it
15:35:43 [orogorbis]
strange , perhaps it have been depraciated or something
15:36:05 [yalaforge]
I'm pretty sure it works. what do you expect the tag to do?
15:36:16 [orogorbis]
u got IE ?
15:36:27 [yalaforge]
no, I'm using a gecko based browser
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15:38:15 [orogorbis]
when u clic on it , it should expend the text
15:38:44 [orogorbis]
there s a description who should apear
15:39:00 [yalaforge]
that's no feature of <ul>. <ul> is just for plain lists
15:39:22 [orogorbis]
how did he do this so , i can see nothing special
15:39:52 [yalaforge]
I can't load the site. the request times out
15:40:32 [orogorbis]
i m browsing it right now
15:42:10 [orogorbis]
gah , in fact theres JS
15:42:17 [orogorbis]
but it s at the bottom
15:42:42 [real_]
sneaky
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15:43:40 [orogorbis]
gah , didn t realised it was so crappy
15:44:43 [orogorbis]
if u clic on the elemen who have a title font , then it hide the corresponding text
15:45:07 [orogorbis]
i thought my dad was better than this
15:45:36 [yalaforge]
web authoring is almost never elegant or clean
15:45:57 [mxpxpod]
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15:45:58 [orogorbis]
it can be
15:46:56 [orogorbis]
parent.mainframe.window.document.body.scrollTop = document.body.scrollTop;
15:47:23 [orogorbis]
this keeps 2 frame syncronized , very simple
15:47:52 [orogorbis]
evryone who try to syncronise frames do it in a so compliqued way , this is very clean
15:54:57 [orogorbis]
what does subscribe to an artiste does ?
15:55:19 [real]
when there is a change to their metadta it emails you
15:55:27 [orogorbis]
cool
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16:05:44 [djce]
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16:06:41 [orogorbis]
hi
16:06:53 [orogorbis]
hey , we was speaking about u a sec ago
16:07:01 [djce]
moi?
16:07:14 [djce]
* djce checks the chat logs
16:07:15 [orogorbis]
yep
16:07:42 [orogorbis]
[17:27] <yalaforge> if you know JS, you could send djce a patch
16:07:50 [orogorbis]
30 min ago so
16:08:24 [orogorbis]
i was suggesting to use a JS fr the menu
16:08:49 [djce]
the menu at the side of every web page?
16:08:54 [orogorbis]
yes
16:08:59 [djce]
already done!
16:09:09 [orogorbis]
not uploaded yet ?
16:09:15 [djce]
go to your prefs page and enable "load the full version of the menu"
16:09:19 [djce]
No, it's live already.
16:09:21 [orogorbis]
i did it
16:09:40 [orogorbis]
tried with mozz and IE
16:09:47 [djce]
It should work in both.
16:10:46 [djce]
Currently it's disabled by default because it adds quite an overhead to every page view (loading /all/ menu items, not just the visible ones).
16:10:49 [real]
i did it
16:11:06 [orogorbis]
saved a second time , it worked this time
16:11:52 [orogorbis]
nah , it s better like that , should decrease bandwith use
16:12:12 [orogorbis]
like this u don t have to go throught 2 or 3 page before u get what u want
16:12:18 [real]
well wouldnt the server give a 206
16:12:27 [djce]
It's a trade-off; it adds something like 20-30k per page or something crazy.
16:13:09 [djce]
Either that, or we could add /another/ JS-based version which dynamically fetches the menu information from the server as it's required
16:13:26 [djce]
instead of loading it as the page loads, even if it's not needed.
16:13:42 [real]
or make a version for hardcore users like me
16:13:48 [real]
ive never even went to the other ones
16:13:53 [orogorbis]
hehe
16:13:58 [orogorbis]
orogorbis is now known as orogr
16:13:59 [real]
only 'edit the data'
16:14:03 [orogr]
orogr is now known as orogor
16:14:13 [real]
and i use quick search most often, thats an awesome feature
16:14:23 [orogor]
yhea
16:14:26 [djce]
It's quite popular that one :-)
16:16:23 [orogor]
was wonding if u plan to handle the fact than many artist can colaborate on one album
16:16:41 [djce]
For sure, yes.
16:16:51 [orogor]
exept using something like feat .
16:16:54 [real]
i have lots like that
16:17:09 [orogor]
hhaa , great
16:17:18 [djce]
Currently we only have two types of data really:
16:17:30 [djce]
artist (one at a time) and name (album name, track name etc)
16:17:53 [djce]
We plan to be able to make lots of links between things, as freely as you like.
16:18:01 [djce]
let me find the page about it...
16:18:09 [dvtoo]
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16:18:16 [djce]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/wiki.pl?AdvancedRelationships
16:18:18 [real]
Avalon and White Wash, Blue Eyed Devils and Aggravated Assault, Bulldog Breed and Intimidation One,Definite Hate and Riot WIng,Division S and Bully Boys,Fortress and Brutal Attack,Ian Stuart and Rough Justice,Ian Stuart and Stigger,Ken McLellan and Stigger,No Remorse and Razor's Edge,Ian Stuart & The Klansmen,Nahkampf & Kolovrat
16:18:32 [djce]
That's quite a list :-)
16:18:40 [djce]
a database creator's nightmare at that!
16:18:42 [real]
there is even more, but they are 'feat'
16:19:13 [orogor]
yhea
16:20:14 [orogor]
what s that is it just a page about genral notions for databases ?
16:20:47 [djce]
It's about how you might generally be able to construct a database in order to flexibly be able to represent data
16:20:56 [djce]
and what sort of data you'd be able to represent
16:21:07 [orogor]
hha , merise
16:21:24 [orogor]
been a studient in computer sciences this year
16:21:46 [orogor]
i think know that , meurise was like a revolution for me
16:23:40 [orogor]
been told about meurise ?
16:23:53 [djce]
No, what's that?
16:24:19 [orogor]
if u work with database u really have to know this
16:25:11 [orogor]
meurise methode explain how to create a database , even a 5 yo child can do it , but a computer will never be able to do it
16:25:21 [orogor]
it s just pure logic
16:25:36 [orogor]
and it lead to perfectly designed database
16:26:30 [orogor]
u just can t do better , the application can be slightly different , cause u may add temporary tables for optimise querrys
16:27:55 [orogor]
the only probleme with this methode is that it s very long to design the database , as u have to think to a lot of things
16:28:58 [orogor]
in fact theres like 10 steps , and if i remember well , step 3 and 8 are really long , particulary on big databases
16:29:49 [djce]
Well hopefully we've got our DB design about right I think, so it's just a case of creating the application code to handle it all.
16:30:04 [orogor]
sure
16:32:27 [orogor]
was wondering , i have a big collection of MP3 , that i d like to add
16:33:55 [orogor]
how should i do , i mean when add a folder , the files go in identified , or unidentified
16:34:30 [orogor]
is there a way i can add my trm based on my already tagged mp3 ?
16:34:54 [djce]
For everything in "identified", check that it identified it correctly. If not click "identify again".
16:35:05 [djce]
There's no way of completely automatically doing it
16:35:18 [djce]
You always have to check that it's guessing correctly
16:35:26 [orogor]
i noticd
16:35:53 [orogor]
but when it s identified , how do i add it , the submit button stay greyed
16:36:46 [orogor]
for exemple , i just scanned all my scientist albums , i got 67 identified , 54 unidentified
16:36:49 [djce]
"Submit" is only for submitting new TRM data, i.e. for tracks which it previously didn't know, but you've just added
16:37:11 [djce]
If it managed to identify it correctly already, then it's already got the data, so there's nothing to submit
16:37:19 [orogor]
hha
16:37:42 [orogor]
and what about the 54 other files so ?
16:38:03 [djce]
Sorry, I don't know what you mean.
16:38:14 [djce]
ah, i see. ssorry
16:38:46 [djce]
For the other 54 "unidentified" ones, you click "Lookup" on each track and try to find the track in the Musicbrainz database.
16:38:53 [djce]
when you find it, you click the "tag" link.
16:39:03 [djce]
If it's not in there, you can add it in first, then tag it.
16:39:28 [djce]
When you tag it, it moves from "unidentified" to "identified", and the "submit" button becomes available.
16:39:35 [djce]
Click "save" and "submit" to finish.
16:39:45 [orogor]
haa , have to do it for eatch file ?
16:40:08 [djce]
You have to tag for each file, yes.
16:40:17 [orogor]
if i scan all my m3 i should find like 800 unidentified files
16:40:23 [djce]
If you've got a whole album though it's not too bad,
16:40:30 [orogor]
will be fu** long to add em all
16:40:39 [djce]
because all you have to do is "lookup" on the first track of each album, find the album.
16:40:45 [djce]
then select / tag each track.
16:40:59 [djce]
i.e. one "lookup" per album, instead of per track
16:41:14 [orogor]
k , trying
16:43:10 [real]
lol i added about 4000 songs by hand so far
16:43:17 [orogor]
wew
16:43:40 [djce]
Look on the bright side: once it's been added, you'll never have to add it again.
16:43:58 [real]
or so it would seem
16:44:05 [real]
but some people have other ideas for my addigns!
16:44:12 [orogor]
humm , the album isn t there , had to add it
16:44:27 [real]
i am happy about adding the stuff though, because its a database forever, and im helping someone out
16:46:25 [orogor]
humm have to create a new arist
16:46:37 [orogor]
scientist feat. prince jammy
16:46:43 [orogor]
grr
16:50:08 [real]
no
16:50:13 [real]
i think its the album is 'feat jammy'
16:51:24 [orogor]
huh ?.
16:52:40 [djce]
If it's only a single track which features "Jammy", enter the track name as " ... (feat. Jammy)"
16:52:57 [djce]
If it's a whole album, then put " ... (feat. Jammy)" at the end of the album name
16:53:09 [djce]
but leave the artist name as just "Scientist"
16:53:50 [orogor]
that s what i did
16:54:04 [orogor]
but it s just seems dumb
16:58:58 [orogor]
gah , yesterday i added like 4 albums and in fact i didn t added te trm
17:03:54 [orogor]
what does zinf does ?
17:04:18 [orogor]
does it allow to submit info too , or only querry ?
17:06:17 [djce]
I think it's only query now.
17:06:24 [orogor]
k
17:06:31 [djce]
The problem there is that Zinf uses a very old version of the musicbrainz client
17:06:35 [orogor]
i ll give it a try when i ll reboot to linux
17:06:41 [orogor]
haa
17:10:56 [rjmunro]
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17:15:38 [orogor]
hi
17:29:45 [soccos]
soccos (~paul@psharpe2-egw.access.nethere.net) has joined #musicbrainz
17:29:52 [orogor]
hi
17:30:08 [soccos]
is extending the schema mainly a resource issue?
17:30:18 [orogor]
??
17:30:25 [orogor]
database sheme ?
17:30:31 [soccos]
yes
17:30:39 [soccos]
* soccos prods djce
17:30:53 [orogor]
i m not a part of MB project
17:31:01 [soccos]
that's nice
17:31:11 [orogor]
but i can tell u that all depend of what u add
17:31:37 [orogor]
if u add an other column , it does t use ressources
17:32:03 [soccos]
I'm talking about human resources
17:32:07 [orogor]
haa
17:32:21 [orogor]
<== need girls ressources
17:32:32 [soccos]
vs. philosophical reasons for not changing the schema
17:32:56 [soccos]
atm
17:33:04 [orogor]
they nees to advertise more
17:33:16 [orogor]
they ll grab develloer this way
17:35:11 [ruaok]
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17:35:20 [djce]
hey hey hey
17:35:23 [ruaok]
hye
17:35:29 [orogor]
hi
17:35:53 [ruaok]
I got attacked by my friends last night, so I didn't get much of a chance to write the docs for the tagger. :-(
17:36:01 [ruaok]
I'm going to do that right now...
17:36:10 [orogor]
ya need to grab www.allmusic.com BD
17:36:10 [ruaok]
And then we can update the server....
17:36:19 [ruaok]
BD??
17:36:23 [orogor]
ops database
17:36:43 [ruaok]
And we'd get sued for that.
17:36:53 [soccos]
hey rob
17:36:58 [ruaok]
soccos: hi!
17:37:01 [soccos]
<soccos> is extending the schema mainly a resource issue?
17:37:03 [orogor]
u could create an import tool
17:37:11 [soccos]
or is it more philosophical
17:37:17 [rjmunro]
I think the reason the schema hasn't changed is that we have been working on other things.
17:37:17 [ruaok]
soccos: the former.
17:37:22 [soccos]
hmm
17:37:28 [ruaok]
rjmunro: you're right.
17:37:36 [ruaok]
Basic features need to work right before we move on.
17:37:54 [soccos]
but you might accept a patch from me?
17:37:59 [orogor]
they got MARC format for import
17:38:08 [ruaok]
And as long as our moderators are pointing out flaws in the moderation/voting process we need to focus on those issues.
17:38:10 [rjmunro]
orogor: We can't copy data from allmusic.com.
17:38:21 [rjmunro]
It doesn't matter how we do it. We are not allowed to.
17:38:22 [orogor]
why ?
17:38:22 [ruaok]
soccos: what is the patch??
17:38:34 [rjmunro]
Because their data is copyright them.
17:38:36 [soccos]
adding columns
17:38:37 [ruaok]
orogor: copyright laws. Its illegal.
17:38:39 [orogor]
what s the use of the marc format they offer
17:38:55 [rjmunro]
The only people we can copy data from is freedb, and we do.
17:38:58 [ruaok]
if you pay them $11,000/month you're allowed to use their data.
17:39:10 [ruaok]
And then MARC is handy.
17:39:11 [soccos]
ruoak: mb-users seem to be gagging for this
17:39:30 [ruaok]
soccos: have you read the AdvancedRelationships wiki page?? Dave is working on implementing that feature right now.
17:39:45 [soccos]
I have, I didn't know that was work in progress
17:40:10 [ruaok]
That will get us a TON of new links. Dave has shown me bits and pieces of it and I'm getting excited.
17:40:34 [ruaok]
djce: how far along on the AR stuff are you?? 60% 70%??
17:40:36 [soccos]
is there anything in CVS?
17:40:48 [djce]
soccos: There's a branch for it.
17:40:57 [djce]
the wrongly-named ArbitraryURL branch
17:40:58 [soccos]
what's the tag?
17:41:03 [soccos]
oh
17:41:25 [djce]
the branch is called "ArbitraryURLs-BRANCH"
17:41:40 [djce]
I forget how much has been committed so far
17:41:51 [djce]
but so far you can edit, add, and delete link types
17:41:57 [djce]
and select things to be linked together
17:42:12 [djce]
but actually adding (and therefore deleting) the links isn't yet possible
17:42:39 [djce]
Once that's done, the final trick would be to allow the link data to be represented and queried in various ways
17:44:30 [soccos]
adding columns might be orthogonal to this work?
17:44:50 [rjmunro]
Is there a cd2trm type tool for windows yet?
17:44:53 [soccos]
i.e. it could happen on the trunk
17:45:42 [soccos]
e.g. Album:ReleaseYear
17:46:38 [soccos]
would probably make users happier in the short term
17:47:08 [soccos]
or is it better done as part of AdvancedRelationships?
17:47:49 [orogor]
add album release date is nothin , just one more column
17:47:51 [ruaok]
I think that could be part of AR.
17:47:59 [djce]
It's probably better discussed and thought throw separately
17:48:06 [djce]
I'm not sure it fits neatly into AR
17:48:10 [orogor]
it doesn
17:48:19 [soccos]
so it could happen on the trunk then
17:48:42 [djce]
and at the same time, it would be wise to see if adding years has other implications, and whether it fits into part of another bigger picture
17:49:17 [orogor]
humm , exept if u want to handle the fact the an album can have different version
17:49:18 [soccos]
the bigger picture being the new AR schema
17:49:50 [soccos]
I think the question is whether to add to the existing schema and thus to the migration to AR
17:49:51 [soccos]
or not
17:49:56 [djce]
No, another bigger picture.
17:50:06 [rjmunro]
There's also disc numbers and where the album was released.
17:50:08 [orogor]
soccos haa , for this i dunno
17:50:11 [djce]
AR handles one particular aspect of the data modelling.
17:50:24 [orogor]
i m only looking at BM since a few days
17:50:27 [djce]
Disc numbers, years etc don't fit into AR as I see it, so something else would be require.d
17:50:45 [rjmunro]
What about country of release?
17:50:59 [rjmunro]
For releases that are different in different countries?
17:50:59 [orogor]
nah , it s smae thing
17:51:10 [orogor]
gaah
17:51:16 [orogor]
didn t thinked about that
17:51:23 [ruaok]
bbiab
17:51:24 [ruaok]
ruaok has quit ("Client exiting")
17:51:37 [orogor]
even more compilqued fpr this
17:51:43 [djce]
* djce is away: back in an hour or so for the release....
17:52:15 [soccos]
rjmunro: which attributes are users asking for most?
17:52:16 [orogor]
cause release from different country are in fact completly different album
17:52:54 [rjmunro]
Yes, but with the same title.
17:53:01 [orogor]
as it most of the time happen that they don t got the sames tracks , or even the same number of tracks
17:53:07 [orogor]
yhea
17:53:12 [rjmunro]
Different albums with the same title are asking for trouble.
17:53:17 [orogor]
its an album to album relation
17:53:34 [soccos]
release:release in my world
17:54:05 [rjmunro]
Hmm... I suppose so,
17:54:07 [orogor]
i don t know about other , but what i d like to see the most is part of what u call AR
17:54:45 [orogor]
would be to handle propertly albums relaesed by differents artist
17:54:59 [soccos]
the problem as I see it is there's no migration path between Schema1 => Schema2
17:55:00 [rjmunro]
What about an album that comes out in 3 versions.
17:55:21 [soccos]
*that*s* what really needs fixing
17:55:36 [orogor]
want the database description ?
17:56:54 [orogor]
what s the difference between the 2 shemes ?
17:57:01 [orogor]
did u deleted something ?
17:57:50 [soccos]
S2 is the mythical "new" schema that we need
17:58:11 [orogor]
u got it yet ?
17:58:17 [soccos]
it's been discussed for years but hasn't happened
17:58:25 [soccos]
<soccos> the problem as I see it is there's no migration path between Schema1 => Schema2
17:58:49 [soccos]
I think we need an evolutionary approach
17:59:08 [soccos]
which is why I'm suggesting adding columns to the existing schema
17:59:15 [orogor]
from what i understand the shema 2 will be handling what u call Advanced relationships
17:59:32 [soccos]
that's part of it
17:59:44 [orogor]
it the systeme behind it , should be able to add/delete dynamicaly tables
17:59:46 [soccos]
but as djce pointed out, there are other schema changes required
18:01:14 [orogor]
if i can undersatand your neeb i could help u a few days
18:01:26 [orogor]
<== don t work atm
18:02:17 [orogor]
i ve seen it s on the wiki , but the description isn t very clear for me
18:02:34 [icepick-away]
icepick-away is now known as icepick
18:02:49 [soccos]
i doubt you can do much on the AR stuff
18:03:36 [soccos]
check out that branch that djce mentioned, read the code and speak to him about it if you're still itching
18:12:38 [orogor]
been on sourceforge , the cvs is empty
18:13:25 [djce]
orogor: our CVS isn't hosted at sourceforge
18:13:31 [orogor]
haa
18:13:45 [djce]
That said, a lot of the AR code hasn't been committed yet
18:14:28 [orogor]
is there a way i could see the AR sheme ?
18:15:10 [djce]
the database schema?
18:16:02 [djce]
I'll try to get round to committing some of the AR stuff to CVS soon.
18:16:04 [orogor]
yup
18:16:15 [djce]
Then you'll just be able to get it out of CVS
18:16:21 [orogor]
k
18:16:32 [orogor]
* orogor is getting some food
18:22:36 [soccos]
djce: so what would you recommend if I wanted to try to add some of the new attributes/relationships mb-users are asking for?
18:22:51 [soccos]
create a branch?
18:22:56 [djce]
Which ones in particular?
18:23:10 [djce]
But yes, create a branch for sure.
18:23:30 [soccos]
I was thinking of a poll to see which were most popular
18:23:48 [soccos]
my subconscions is telling me "year of release"
18:23:55 [djce]
per album?
18:24:00 [soccos]
yes
18:24:16 [djce]
year of *first* release, to be simpler
18:24:17 [soccos]
which sounds (relatively) easy
18:24:23 [djce]
yes
18:24:45 [djce]
Yes, that should be quite simple.
18:24:54 [soccos]
although I've never looked at the presentation/moderation code
18:25:14 [djce]
Add a column to the album table; add some new moderations; add some code to show the data, and maybe sort on it.
18:25:47 [soccos]
"add some new moderations"?
18:26:01 [djce]
some way to edit the data
18:26:13 [djce]
are you familiar with the existing moderation code, broadly speaking?
18:26:25 [djce]
I'm imagining a MOD_EDIT_ALBUM_YEAR mod
18:26:41 [soccos]
no
18:26:50 [djce]
or maybe it should just be piggybacked onto the existing "Edit Album" mod
18:27:00 [djce]
anyway, moderation coding would be required.
18:27:24 [soccos]
ok, I was expecting that
18:28:34 [soccos]
have you ever wondered about re-design to automate this?
18:28:49 [soccos]
so the process is just
18:29:07 [soccos]
add a column/table/relationship etc.
18:29:34 [djce]
(and that's it, yes?)
18:29:39 [soccos]
yes
18:29:58 [djce]
In my experience, such things have always been more work to automate than the automation itself saved.
18:30:16 [djce]
Automation tends to produce inflexibility too.
18:30:38 [djce]
It's always worth bearing in mind, and evaluating from time to time.
18:30:47 [soccos]
it's a big job
18:30:49 [djce]
But so far the answer has always been "no" .
18:30:55 [djce]
Indeed.
18:31:16 [soccos]
but very doable
18:32:24 [soccos]
we do this internally
18:32:34 [soccos]
but our implementation is a bit ugly
18:32:43 [soccos]
all of the db metadata is in Perl classes
18:37:45 [soccos]
href="/brainz.css?t=1062783172"
18:37:45 [soccos]
what does that argument do?
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18:39:14 [orogor]
lotta server splits these times
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18:52:13 [orogor]
* orogor reboot to linux
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19:08:11 [ruaok]
yalaforge: hi!
19:08:22 [yalaforge]
hi!
19:18:09 [ruaok]
ok, server update is in progress.
19:33:19 [ruaok]
new server and new tagger are now LIVE!
19:33:40 [ruaok]
THe server now has track duration color coding, which I really like.
19:33:51 [yalaforge]
cool, thanks ruaok & djce!
19:35:04 [ruaok]
NP
19:35:13 [ruaok]
I'm excited by this release. So much cool stuff.
19:35:50 [yalaforge]
I'm currently trying the new voting
19:36:12 [soccos]
where's the track duration color coding?
19:36:52 [ruaok]
you have to be using the tagger.
19:36:57 [soccos]
oic
19:37:03 [ruaok]
Otherwise there is nothing to color code.
19:37:08 [soccos]
does that run on linux now?
19:37:46 [ruaok]
:-(
19:37:50 [soccos]
no
19:37:51 [soccos]
ic
19:39:20 [soccos]
oh well, I guess libtunepimp was the hard part
19:39:27 [ruaok]
Ding!
19:39:35 [soccos]
so it won't be far off
19:39:50 [ruaok]
I applied for a grant with Helix Community and the biggest chunk of the grant would be writing a python based UI for libtp.
19:40:18 [soccos]
what's left on sf now?
19:40:34 [soccos]
just bugs/rfes?
19:43:07 [ruaok]
yup.
19:43:13 [ruaok]
And even those days are numbered.
19:43:18 [soccos]
good :-)
19:43:22 [soccos]
moving to RT?
19:43:52 [soccos]
* soccos hates sf
19:45:36 [ruaok]
Yeah, we just need to find the time/inclination.
19:45:40 [ruaok]
I hate SF too.
19:45:59 [ruaok]
Ok, time to get some food.
19:46:02 [ruaok]
I'll be back in a bit.
19:46:06 [ruaok]
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20:31:51 [djce]
* djce is back (gone 02:40:09)
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20:37:12 [djce]
ruaok: Has it all been running smoothly?
20:37:31 [ruaok]
I got one ModBot complaint, that is all I've seen.
20:38:57 [djce]
Yes, I see that.
20:39:13 [djce]
Looks like "merge album" needs to allow for the new unique index.
20:39:34 [djce]
Can you take a look at all the "undef" warnings coming from TaggerSupport / QuerySupport ?
20:39:45 [djce]
I'd like to get the error log mostly quiet again.
20:40:09 [real]
modbot is jost a jabronie anyway
20:40:15 [djce]
And if you can handle the modbot complaints for a little while, I'll try and fix that properly later.
20:40:25 [ruaok]
sure.
20:40:43 [djce]
Thanks! I'll be back for longer later.
20:40:51 [djce]
* djce is away: again
20:42:21 [alus]
heeyyy new tagger
20:42:23 [alus]
* alus downloads
21:00:22 [mxpxpod]
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21:00:29 [mxpxpod]
hey ruaok
21:01:23 [alus]
* alus installs
21:02:34 [ruaok]
mxpxpod: hey!
21:02:43 [mxpxpod]
what's goin on?
21:03:42 [ruaok]
new server release. new tagger.
21:03:47 [ruaok]
Its a good day so far.
21:03:50 [mxpxpod]
sweet
21:04:01 [mxpxpod]
I wish people would freaking vote :)
21:04:39 [alus]
me too - then we might not have the Terminator as gov.
21:04:45 [mxpxpod]
haha
21:05:06 [mxpxpod]
I'd say having the terminator is better than having mr. corruption and his funny friend as gov.
21:05:33 [alus]
hey, I used to live in TX when we had Bush Jr.
21:05:37 [alus]
not much better :/
21:06:20 [mxpxpod]
I'd rather have those two than iowa's gov.
21:06:40 [mxpxpod]
coming in, he had surplus's up the wazoo and now we're 60 mil. in the red
21:06:58 [alus]
woah!
21:06:58 [alus]
that's talent
21:07:25 [mxpxpod]
no, that's retarded social programs that don't help worth a damn :)
21:08:35 [mxpxpod]
but let's not argue about politics
21:08:54 [alus]
* alus agrees
21:08:55 [ruaok]
mxpxpod: 60 mil in the red?
21:09:00 [ruaok]
That's chump change. :-)
21:09:00 [mxpxpod]
yeah
21:09:03 [mxpxpod]
not for iowa
21:09:09 [ruaok]
Oh yea. :-)
21:09:12 [mxpxpod]
:D
21:10:45 [mxpxpod]
but the hippies in iowa city don't understand that debt is bad
21:12:52 [mxpxpod]
oh well, such is life
21:19:40 [alus]
* alus downloads tagger source
21:23:37 [eikeon]
eikeon has quit ("Client exiting")
21:25:43 [alus]
Hm. no MSVC++ 6.0 build file
21:25:48 [alus]
want one?
21:26:05 [ruaok]
For what?
21:26:07 [ruaok]
libtp??
21:26:56 [mxpxpod]
man, that tagger is useless until it can tag for linux
21:27:22 [alus]
ruaok: the tagger
21:27:22 [ruaok]
I know.
21:27:23 [ruaok]
I KNOW
21:27:28 [ruaok]
I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW!
21:27:35 [soccos]
he knows
21:27:37 [alus]
hahahha
21:27:39 [ruaok]
I want a linux tagger too!!!
21:27:42 [mxpxpod]
hey, I think he knows
21:27:47 [ruaok]
:-)
21:27:57 [alus]
hey, I was just thinking of slamming this tagger source until it uses wx
21:28:09 [alus]
is that the route you guys were going to take?
21:28:22 [mxpxpod]
:( I need $400 for this: http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=220&cat=35
21:28:35 [alus]
I know if it was up to icepick he'd do the whole thing in python...
21:28:43 [alus]
;)
21:28:48 [mxpxpod]
what's wrong w/ python? ;)
21:29:01 [alus]
Nothing :)
21:29:13 [ruaok]
That's what I plan to use.
21:29:20 [ruaok]
WHen I get the time to write a new UI.
21:29:25 [mxpxpod]
awesome
21:29:32 [ruaok]
The cross platform libtp was really the first step towards that.
21:29:32 [alus]
Ah, so you're going to start from scratch then?
21:29:36 [mxpxpod]
you should use pygtk :)
21:29:45 [ruaok]
pygkt?? Er, no.
21:29:47 [alus]
I see
21:29:53 [ruaok]
wxWindows/python.
21:29:54 [mxpxpod]
why not?
21:29:56 [alus]
noooo, wxPython!
21:29:58 [mxpxpod]
ah
21:30:05 [ruaok]
I don't want to write more non portable code.
21:30:09 [ruaok]
And GTK fucking sucks.
21:30:17 [mxpxpod]
:-O
21:30:26 [alus]
noooo, wxPython!
21:30:26 [alus]
err
21:30:26 [mxpxpod]
compared to...
21:30:30 [alus]
hah
21:30:49 [ruaok]
QT
21:30:55 [ruaok]
Cocoa.
21:30:56 [mxpxpod]
mmmm...
21:31:00 [mxpxpod]
ok...
21:31:05 [ruaok]
My Ass. :-)
21:31:09 [mxpxpod]
have you tried gtkmm?
21:31:10 [alus]
Cocoa! not fair
21:31:14 [alus]
Hah
21:31:18 [soccos]
FUCK THESE TERMITES
21:31:23 [ruaok]
ITs still GTK.
21:31:28 [mxpxpod]
I love gtk
21:31:32 [ruaok]
* ruaok hopes soccos rents
21:31:37 [mxpxpod]
it's so.... clean and beautiful
21:31:54 [ruaok]
* ruaok throws up
21:31:57 [mxpxpod]
lol
21:31:57 [soccos]
ruaok: (this is the office)
21:32:04 [alus]
Ew
21:32:04 [ruaok]
ahh.
21:32:11 [soccos]
they're tenting over christmas
21:32:15 [mxpxpod]
ruaok: what desktop do you use?
21:32:22 [soccos]
in the meantime I'm the terminator
21:32:27 [soccos]
now that he's got a new job
21:32:34 [alus]
har har
21:32:45 [soccos]
actually I thought he should do a job swap
21:32:50 [soccos]
put Gray Davis in T4
21:33:23 [ruaok]
mxpxpod: Ximian 2
21:33:24 [soccos]
"Terminally Dull"
21:33:31 [mxpxpod]
ruaok: so you use gtk
21:33:39 [ruaok]
I use it, but I don't program it.
21:33:43 [mxpxpod]
ah
21:33:57 [mxpxpod]
I agree, programming gtk in C is a pita... gtkmm is awesome, though
21:34:27 [mxpxpod]
also, ximian uses industrial as their theme engine... it's not that great... you should try cleanice, xfce, or smooth
21:40:45 [mxpxpod]
did you check out that link I posted here?
21:41:58 [ruaok]
briefly.
21:42:24 [mxpxpod]
isn't that awesome?
21:42:29 [mxpxpod]
it plays ogg AND flac
21:42:48 [alus]
what is it?
21:43:04 [mxpxpod]
a portable mp3/ogg/flac player
21:43:12 [mxpxpod]
from rio
21:43:21 [alus]
oh that thing
21:43:28 [alus]
yeah those kick
21:43:32 [alus]
finally an iPod alternative
21:43:35 [mxpxpod]
very much so
21:43:36 [ruaok]
I'm glad to see that ogg/flac support is making it to hardward.
21:43:43 [ruaok]
hardware
21:43:49 [mxpxpod]
yeah
21:44:00 [mxpxpod]
now I just need to earn $400
21:44:01 [mxpxpod]
:)
21:44:15 [real]
how low are your standards?
21:44:32 [alus]
hah
21:44:40 [mxpxpod]
riiiiight
21:46:25 [mxpxpod]
man, rio got it right... the docking station has rca line-outs
21:46:27 [mxpxpod]
that's awesome
21:51:11 [mxpxpod]
and the dock (from what I read) has a web server in it, so you can connect any OS to it thru that interface
21:52:35 [alus]
Wow
21:52:40 [mxpxpod]
yeah
21:52:43 [mxpxpod]
very wow :)
21:52:46 [alus]
does it have an ethernet jack?
21:52:52 [mxpxpod]
the dock does
21:52:59 [alus]
omg
21:53:02 [alus]
that's perfect :)
21:53:28 [mxpxpod]
so, you put the dock next to your stereo, hook your stereo up to your dock, then the dock to your network, and you can control everything from any computer
21:53:29 [alus]
now, make it take standard laptop harddrives, and I'm in heaven
21:53:29 [mxpxpod]
:)
21:53:36 [mxpxpod]
haha
21:53:59 [alus]
* alus is determined to hack a mp3 player that support standard laptop drives on-to his laptop for use when it's off and in his bag
21:54:24 [alus]
just read the files straight off the FS
21:54:29 [alus]
* alus dreams
21:54:33 [mxpxpod]
that'd be sweet
21:54:54 [mxpxpod]
here's a pic of the size:
21:54:55 [alus]
yeah problem is I couldn't sell it except to people with my laptop
21:54:56 [mxpxpod]
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/337/C1897/
21:56:51 [alus]
nice
21:57:00 [alus]
It's a little flashy looking.
21:57:03 [alus]
but you know what?
21:57:04 [mxpxpod]
yeah
21:57:07 [mxpxpod]
but it's small
21:57:07 [alus]
Who cares.
21:57:09 [mxpxpod]
:)
21:57:27 [mxpxpod]
I want something that cool to look flashy :)
21:57:34 [mxpxpod]
the ipod looked flashy at first
21:57:38 [alus]
heh
21:57:47 [alus]
can it store/play that gay format the iTunes store uses?
21:58:20 [mxpxpod]
no
21:58:24 [mxpxpod]
aac
21:59:28 [alus]
that's right
21:59:33 [alus]
* alus grumbles about aac
21:59:39 [alus]
* alus makes his program strip out the image tags
22:03:10 [mxpxpod]
hmm, I hope you can flash the karma from other operating systems
22:21:47 [mxpxpod]
alus: here are some more pics: http://www.riovolution.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17
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22:44:56 [Necronom]
Hmm. Allusion in the tagger changelog to a linux/macos X client.
22:45:28 [ruaok]
libtunepimp/examples/tp_tagger
22:45:47 [ruaok]
text based tagger for linux and mac os x!
22:46:06 [real]
is it better then tunetagger though
22:47:10 [ruaok]
:-)
22:51:19 [Necronom]
Heh.
22:51:32 [Necronom]
If nothing else, it works well for renaming and moving files.
22:54:13 [Necronom]
Does it still try to use gcc to link tp_tagger?
22:55:28 [Necronom]
Hmm. To work on ptrace interface for linux. Or play with tunepimp.
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23:06:20 [alus]
tunepimp!
23:07:19 [Necronom]
Is the trying to link tp_tagger with gcc ( instead of g++ ) a bug in my automake?
23:09:11 [orogor_]
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23:10:39 [ruaok]
perhaps.
23:11:12 [djce]
* djce is back (gone 02:30:21)
23:11:39 [Necronom]
Alas, digging into automake to figure out where CCLD is set is beyond me..
23:11:40 [ruaok]
djce: did you have a chance to look at my changes to TS and QS??
23:11:52 [djce]
just got back. I'll have a look.
23:11:55 [djce]
Are they committed?
23:11:56 [ruaok]
ok
23:11:58 [ruaok]
yes
23:12:00 [Necronom]
Oh. And good work with 0.10.0 :)
23:12:02 [djce]
ok, will do
23:12:02 [ruaok]
on the branch
23:12:07 [ruaok]
Necronom: thanks
23:12:24 [ruaok]
Necronom: what version of automake are you using??
23:15:49 [djce]
ruaok: since TaggerSupport was giving "undef" warnings, should "IsNumber" start with "return 0 unless defined $_[0]" ?
23:16:20 [ruaok]
Yeah, you're right...
23:17:26 [djce]
Apart from that, it looks believeable.
23:17:40 [ruaok]
heheheh.
23:17:47 [ruaok]
Ok, I'll make the fix and update zim.
23:17:51 [ruaok]
no restart needed, right??
23:18:20 [djce]
If you look in the command history for "reload" you'll see what's needed.
23:18:33 [ruaok]
ok
23:19:35 [Necronom]
[jack@needle:examples]$ automake --version
23:19:36 [Necronom]
automake (GNU automake) 1.7.6
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23:45:31 [djce]
ruaok: The ModBot should be happier next time around.
23:45:41 [ruaok]
yay!
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23:47:08 [djce]
ruaok: Is that QS/TS.pm patch pair ready to go?
23:47:18 [ruaok]
I just updated it.
23:47:26 [ruaok]
But it doesn't fix all the warnings.
23:47:27 [ruaok]
:-(
23:48:27 [ruaok]
dumbass me.
23:48:35 [djce]
Obvious bug?
23:48:56 [ruaok]
Well, more undef checks are needed.
23:49:01 [djce]
ok
23:49:10 [djce]
I'm just about to run the "FixLength" script on zim
23:49:40 [djce]
Which should fix the track lengths on 121 albums, according to its --dry-run output.
23:50:01 [ruaok]
ok
23:50:54 [djce]
off it goes...
23:51:16 [djce]
So how's the new Tagger holding up?
23:51:40 [ruaok]
only minor bug reports so far.
23:52:11 [djce]
Good one. Quite a successful day really.
23:53:49 [ruaok]
yup.
23:55:46 [djce]
let me take a look at those warnings...
23:56:28 [ruaok]
tahnks.
23:56:43 [djce]
you did a "reload" on the server, yes?
23:57:25 [ruaok]
yes.
23:57:34 [ruaok]
And I'm getting fewer warnings.
23:57:58 [djce]
Hmm.. undefs being passed into DurationSim...
23:58:18 [djce]
and $B{albumtype} is undef too
23:59:36 [alus]
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23:59:52 [ruaok]
The lines at the top of MetadataCompare should init all the values to reasonable values so that should be ok.