IRC log of musicbrainz on 2007-04-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:04:48 [Kerensky97]
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00:08:49 [Sonjaaa]
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00:08:53 [Sonjaaa]
hi
00:08:59 [Sonjaaa]
where can i chat about chiptunes and .nsf ?
00:09:45 [ruaok]
nsf = national science foundation?
00:09:56 [Sonjaaa]
no :(
00:10:02 [Sonjaaa]
nintendo sound format
00:10:07 [ruaok]
ah.
00:10:18 [ruaok]
what do you want to chat about?
00:10:27 [Sonjaaa]
i wanna learn to compose in nsf
00:10:38 [ruaok]
you've got the wrong channel for that.
00:10:52 [Sonjaaa]
what's this chan for?
00:10:59 [ruaok]
http://musicbrainz.org
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* ruaok runs off
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04:13:20 [cooperaa-studyin]
anybody up¿
04:13:32 [cooperaa-studyin]
?
04:27:34 [Aankhen``]
Sure.
04:27:45 [Aankhen``]
I guess there's no need to ask "What's up?" after that. ;-)
04:40:45 [cooperaa-studyin]
heh :)
04:42:42 [cooperaa-studyin]
off to bed
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05:29:10 [cooperaa-studyin]
hello
05:29:16 [cooperaa-studyin]
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05:29:21 [Aankhen``]
WB. :-)
05:30:01 [cooperaa]
:)
05:30:14 [cooperaa]
I've got a question I wanted to bounce off somebody...
05:31:23 [SenRepus]
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05:31:43 [cooperaa]
there's a Children of Bodom bootleg compilation on the net... "Bodom Covers" and basically it is a collection of all the covers they have done
05:32:23 [cooperaa]
if we allow crappy independent Metallica bootlegs why can't we add this type of internet bootleg? according to last.fm it has over 6000 listeners!
05:36:37 [cooperaa]
any thoughts?
05:46:56 [catgruff]
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05:47:04 [catgroove]
add it
05:47:09 [catgroove]
that'swhat I'd do
05:47:23 [catgroove]
it seems its a 'released' bootleg
05:47:33 [catgroove]
as upposed to a bogus torrent file
05:47:47 [catgroove]
bah running out of time because was reading scrollbacks
05:48:27 [cooperaa]
:)
05:48:28 [cooperaa]
I'll add it...
05:48:51 [cooperaa]
with Picard's ADD CLUSTER AS RELEASE featiue
05:49:01 [catgroove]
oi?
05:49:02 [cooperaa]
feature... :(
05:49:03 [catgroove]
hmm
05:49:04 [catgroove]
:D
05:49:17 [catgroove]
anyway. must feeds cats
05:49:21 [catgroove]
it's so early *_*
05:49:28 [cooperaa]
see ya
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09:29:01 [Prodoc]
mornin'
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10:06:18 [mudcrow]
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10:32:01 [mudcrow]
* mudcrow plays Silence Is Sexy - Einstürzende Neubauten
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10:34:09 [mudcrow]
* mudcrow plays Silence is Golden but Duct Tape is Silver-Against All Authority
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11:24:23 [Jugdish]
what would the correct capitalization be for the french title "bande à part"?
11:34:54 [workingmoose]
Bande à part
11:35:16 [workingmoose]
though one may arguee it's assimilable as a proper noun, hence could be "Bande à Part"
11:35:23 [workingmoose]
I prefer the first
11:35:55 [workingmoose]
eg: assimilable as a proper noun if you refer to the group by that name. Otherwise, it's option 1 in every other case.
11:36:59 [mudcrow]
yuk! boss nova covers of Killing Moon, Ever Fallen in Love & Bela Lugosi's dead, sacrilege
11:38:01 [workingmoose]
:p
11:39:31 [mudcrow]
is they were the originals, that would be an excellent VA compilation
11:40:03 [workingmoose]
errf, I was confused by the way... the band name is not Bande à part (it's the release), but Nouvelle Vague.
11:40:15 [workingmoose]
doesn't change what's inside though :p
12:00:31 [stochasticism]
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12:02:41 [murdos]
Jugdish: the correct caps is "Bande à part"
12:08:28 [linpp]
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13:07:27 [mudcrow]
stupid bloody pretentious artists, why can't they use normal names? X-X has its name different on every release & in multiple ways. they only released 2 singles but we have X-X, X - X, X_X, X blank X, XØX, X Ø X
13:11:10 [Jugdi5h]
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13:11:18 [mudcrow]
Every edit to that artist is me changing the name, and I'm still not sure what the hell to put as the artist name
13:12:54 [Jugdi5h]
i don't see why the artist +/- has their sortname set to Plus/Minus
13:13:27 [Jugdi5h]
the last place i'd be thinking to look for an artist with that name is in with the P's
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14:30:53 [Jugdish]
luks: can we get columns for barcode, format, and country on the label pages?
14:43:43 [workingmoose]
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14:43:48 [dmppanda]
mudcrow?
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15:36:10 [mudcrow]
hi panda
15:37:41 [dmppanda]
hey mud. Can you take a look into Rhino Music Entertainment? Looks to me like a dup of Rhino - but I thought I would ask you first before merging.
15:37:55 [mudcrow]
ok will look
15:38:31 [dmppanda]
thanks
15:39:58 [mudcrow]
grr, I hate releases with label info but no cat number.
15:40:08 [dmppanda]
same :/
15:40:09 [Jugdi5h]
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15:40:30 [dmppanda]
I see quite a lot of these...
15:42:06 [Kerensky97]
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15:43:00 [Jugdi5h]
does zout ever come in here?
15:43:21 [mudcrow]
panda, its the old label vs record company name. Rhino is the logo/brand/inprint they use. The official name for the record company is Rhino Entertainment
15:44:23 [dmppanda]
ok, that's what I thought. IMO, we should merge. What's your call?
15:44:25 [mudcrow]
Jugdi5h: yes, sometimes, but not often. usually he pops in to ask something
15:46:10 [mudcrow]
yes should be merged. I'm for using the label (rhino), rather than the company name
15:46:54 [dmppanda]
agreed
15:47:18 [mudcrow]
i wonder if the duplicate matching for labels could be tweaked to ignore things like records, would save a lot of duplicate entries
15:50:03 [dmppanda]
got to ask luks I guess, but yes, it would be really useful.
15:53:50 [Jugdish_]
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15:54:21 [dmppanda]
"mudcrow: And as yet we don't seem to have much agreement at MB as to what is a label." --- hé! I guess I got to rewrite the documentation --- or maybe it is that no one on earth knows for sure what is a label... :D
15:56:07 [mudcrow]
blame the record companies. and the fact that almost every label is owned by the big 4
15:57:33 [cooperaa]
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15:58:19 [mudcrow]
on most of my vinyl from the 60's to the 80's the label name is the most prominant thing on the label. now with CD's there seems to be endless legal bollocks and little mention of what the label is
15:58:55 [stochasticism]
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15:59:05 [Jugdish_]
it would be cool to visualize the hierarchy of all the record label ARs with this software: http://www.thinkmap.com/architecture_03.jsp
16:01:56 [dmppanda]
Jugdish_: there is an OSS alternative to do that, in javascript+svg. I think the name is "Jsviz". It works pretty well with a reasonnable number of nodes. Its strong point of course is that you can DOM+XMLHttprequest and dinamically build your graph by querying the XML server. One could even imagine a greasemonkey add-on that would fetch relations from a given label entry point page.
16:02:28 [Jugdish_]
that be very cool
16:02:54 [Jugdish_]
would probably kill the server though :/
16:03:47 [dmppanda]
if widely used, yes.
16:03:54 [dmppanda]
just like murdos script
16:04:11 [dmppanda]
such things are experiences anyhow...
16:05:58 [cooperaa]
* cooperaa almost slept through his exam this morning!!!!
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16:06:30 [dmppanda]
Time to dive into subway. Good evening guys and gals ;)
16:06:37 [cooperaa]
cya dmppanda
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17:15:58 [ruaok]
* ruaok yawns
17:19:49 [Muz]
* Muz mooses
17:20:42 [FauxFaux]
Sooomes.
17:22:12 [Muz]
Mooooses
17:25:52 [ruaok]
* ruaok makes moves for the office
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17:55:07 [Jugdish]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/0c39e6da-14c7-4d7e-954f-a3fbd6ab7225.html
17:55:16 [Jugdish]
why is the sortname for "Low" "Laurent"?
18:01:10 [murdos_away]
Jugdish: this is just crap, see mudcrow comment http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=4133255
18:03:31 [Jugdish_]
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18:04:09 [Jugdish_]
this is odd
18:04:33 [Jugdish_]
if you run a search for "maximo park" they don't even appear on the first page of results: http://musicbrainz.org/search/textsearch.html?query=maximo+park&type=artist&limit=25&handlearguments=1
18:04:56 [Jugdish_]
but if you look at their aliases, "maximo park" is one of them: http://musicbrainz.org/show/artist/aliases.html?artistid=226993
18:05:01 [Jugdish_]
anybody know why that would be?
18:05:45 [mudcrow]
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18:06:07 [Kerensky97]
It's because of the odd charater in the sortname
18:07:12 [duckman]
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18:07:14 [Kerensky97]
*character
18:08:03 [Jugdish_]
yes but isn't one of the functions of aliases to aid in the searching for artists with weird characters in their names?
18:09:06 [Kerensky97]
I've never noticed aliases do much to help anything.
18:09:43 [Kerensky97]
I think the "help
18:10:23 [Jugdish_]
well, if you search for "plus/minus" it takes you right to the artist "+/-" which wouldn't happen except that "plus/minus" is one of its aliases
18:10:26 [Kerensky97]
I think the "help" they do seacrching is only for things like picard. But luks or ruaok would be the ones that know.
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18:53:34 [Shepard]
did someone see my moose?
18:56:35 [Kerensky97]
I think it went that way --->
18:59:28 [Shepard]
thanks
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20:31:37 [SenRepus]
http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=322024
20:31:45 [SenRepus]
im not even sure how to clean up the last 3 songs there
20:53:08 [AMurderofCrows]
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20:56:12 [catgroove]
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20:56:15 [nightgroove]
natta guys!
20:56:19 [nightgroove]
nattasen
20:56:59 [SenRepus]
night mo!
20:57:09 [nightgroove]
^__^
21:01:17 [ruaok]
nightgroove: I went shopping.
21:01:22 [ruaok]
your crack is at my house.
21:01:35 [ruaok]
oh and the shirt is XL. did I mention that already?
21:03:40 [ruaok]
figures. the one time I try to talk to mo after he goes to bed, he acually WENT to bed.
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21:17:22 [ruaok]
hi Jugdish
21:17:33 [Jugdish_]
hey
21:19:19 [ruaok]
ok, I'm reading http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/browser/mb_server/branches/RELEASE_20070401-BRANCH/admin/cleanup/FixLength.pl
21:19:28 [ruaok]
this is the script that applies times to albums.
21:19:47 [Jugdish_]
ok cool
21:19:49 [ruaok]
127 # Easy case: there is one disc ID, we have exactly the correct set of
21:19:50 [ruaok]
128 # tracks, and all the tracks have no length.
21:20:16 [ruaok]
in this case the CD ID sets the durations for all the tracks.
21:20:18 [ruaok]
simple.
21:20:44 [ruaok]
the other cases are more complicated.
21:21:11 [ruaok]
184 # Probably the next case to handle is any combination of:
21:21:11 [ruaok]
185 # - multiple TOCs, but where they are all "close enough"
21:21:11 [ruaok]
186 # - tracks already have length, but all those tracks match the TOC "well enough"
21:21:31 [ruaok]
in this case "well enough" is defined as 5 seconds.
21:22:07 [ruaok]
so, a TOC (CD ID) will be applied IFF it doesn't conflict with the existing track times more than 5 seconds.
21:22:26 [ruaok]
if there is a conflict, the script refuses to touch it.
21:22:31 [ruaok]
and leaves it for humans.
21:22:54 [Jugdish_]
ok, so if the existing track times do conflict with the TOC, will the track times still become uneditable?
21:23:22 [ruaok]
the last time this script ran, it said:
21:23:22 [ruaok]
Thu Apr 12 04:57:23 2007 : Fixed 15 tracks on 2 albums
21:23:22 [ruaok]
Thu Apr 12 04:57:23 2007 : (14 had no previous length)
21:23:36 [ruaok]
which means that there are NO albums in the database that have conflicts.
21:23:43 [Jugdish_]
wow
21:23:50 [ruaok]
no, the script will refuse to change anything.
21:23:55 [ruaok]
but that is not happening right now.
21:24:22 [ruaok]
I hope that answers your question sufficiently.
21:24:34 [Jugdish_]
i can't say i fully understand why it's set up that way. as you said earlier, the TOC represents more accurate information than what someone manually types in so it seems like the TOC should always override
21:24:51 [ruaok]
in theory yes.
21:25:29 [ruaok]
but we have a more grand rule that a script should not override humans unless the script can be 1000% certain its doing the right thing.
21:25:42 [ruaok]
which is clearly not the case here. this script must do a lot of guesswork.
21:25:51 [Jugdish_]
i see
21:27:38 [Jugdish_]
well thanks for looking into that for me, i now understand ;)
21:28:05 [ruaok]
* ruaok cheers
21:30:34 [Jugdish_]
oh wait, there's still one thing i don't understand... :P
21:30:56 [Jugdish_]
if a script should not override humans, why do the track times become unchangeable by a human once there's a TOC attached?
21:32:01 [ruaok]
in this case its not a script overriding humans. it just blocks those pesky humans. :)
21:32:25 [ruaok]
the idea is that a TOC is known good/verified.
21:33:03 [ruaok]
and machine verified and human attached trumps other humans going to tinker with it. ;)
21:33:37 [Jugdish_]
but...if the TOC conflicted with the human-entered times then the TOC is locking down the human-entered times, isn't it?
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21:34:39 [mudcrow]
yes, and you can then submit the disc id to be remove & provide the correct disc id
21:34:40 [ruaok]
if the toc conflicted, the script would have done nothing and not locked humans out.
21:34:58 [hagna]
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21:35:01 [ruaok]
its only when the script does the right thing that is locks out humans from doing the wrong thing.
21:35:04 [Jugdish]
aha
21:35:12 [Jugdish]
that was the missing piece that i needed to know :)
21:35:31 [ruaok]
thanks mudcrow :)
21:35:46 [Jugdish]
incidentally, if i wanted to help out in some way with server development, what would my first steps be?
21:36:00 [ruaok]
sweet!
21:36:04 [ruaok]
do you have a linux box?
21:36:14 [Jugdish]
umm, not natively
21:36:24 [ruaok]
ok, then download the VM ware image.
21:36:32 [Jugdish]
yeah
21:36:33 [ruaok]
we currently have an old one up there.
21:36:42 [ruaok]
Rod is working on createing one for the 20070401 release.
21:36:58 [ruaok]
when that is out, grab it, install it and get the server running on your box.
21:37:05 [ruaok]
that is step #1.
21:37:27 [Jugdish]
k
21:37:32 [ruaok]
when you're done with that, I'd be glad to point to you to some bugs that need fixing or discuss other things you might like to work on.
21:37:41 [Jugdish]
cool :)
21:37:59 [ruaok]
luks can also help with that. ;)
21:38:52 [mudcrow]
being unable to view my subscribed artist list is a bug that needs fixing :p
21:39:13 [ruaok]
yes. sorry for not getting on that mudcrow
21:39:25 [ruaok]
Jugdish: you'd make mudcrow happy with that one!
21:39:37 [Jugdish]
hehe
21:39:57 [mudcrow]
thats ok, I'm just really missing not being able to view it now I'm adding label info.
21:40:30 [ruaok]
Jugdish: that would really be a nice little starter project to work on.
21:40:46 [Jugdish]
ok
21:40:59 [Jugdish]
is there a ticket on that one?
21:41:11 [ruaok]
* ruaok looks at mudcrow
21:41:24 [mudcrow]
erm let me go search
21:41:40 [ruaok]
FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/archives/2007/04/google_summer_o_2.html
21:41:48 [ruaok]
those are the summer of code project we accepted.
21:42:34 [mudcrow]
http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/2428
21:42:59 [Jugdish]
* Jugdish O_o's at #2
21:43:22 [Jugdish]
working towards NGS...niiiice
21:44:04 [luks]
Jugdish: #2 will be AlbumGrouping
21:44:23 [luks]
ruaok: can you please update one file on the server?
21:44:28 [luks]
(just html, no restart)
21:44:41 [Shepard]
sweet
21:44:45 [Shepard]
hi guys
21:44:47 [ruaok]
luks: sure, which one.
21:44:53 [luks]
/htdocs/show/artist/index.html
21:44:56 [ruaok]
k
21:45:11 [Jugdish]
do you pay them or does google?
21:45:17 [luks]
google
21:45:35 [ruaok]
done.
21:45:38 [luks]
thanks
21:45:42 [ruaok]
np
21:45:57 [ruaok]
so I'm trying to rotate stimpy back in...
21:46:14 [ruaok]
we replaced the mobo on him... and now he kernel panics upon booting into the old kernel
21:46:23 [ruaok]
but he's find with the stock kernel. grrr,
21:46:47 [ruaok]
*something* changed on the mobo, I just don't know WHAT.
21:50:50 [ruaok]
anyone here a PHP hacker?
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21:51:42 [luks]
*cough* here *cough*
21:52:23 [ruaok]
oh, sorry didn't know you speak PHP.
21:52:27 [ruaok]
want a little contract work?
21:52:41 [luks]
ah, no
21:52:45 [ruaok]
there is someone who wants a little function written that accesses our WS.
21:52:53 [ruaok]
sounds pretty minor.
21:53:03 [luks]
hmm
21:53:18 [ruaok]
wow. sharon is *really* excited. she created a blog for her soc work:
21:53:18 [ruaok]
http://www.sharon-soc-mb.blogspot.com/
21:53:36 [yoasif_]
ooh
21:53:36 [yoasif_]
nice
21:55:40 [SenRepus]
should an album all follow the same capitaliztion style if it is in two languages, one of which uses sentance style capitaliztion and the other being english?
21:56:00 [SenRepus]
i can no longer remember
21:56:15 [Shepard]
separate style for the languages
21:56:42 [yoasif_]
whats the other language?
21:57:42 [SenRepus]
"Ventilace ritniho otvoru" "Zapusteni kompresorove hadice do aortalni trubice"
21:57:45 [SenRepus]
i have no fricken idea
21:57:56 [luks]
LOL
21:58:07 [Shepard]
I'll ask the language expert
21:58:08 [luks]
I guess it's better you have no idea
21:58:19 [luks]
it's czech
21:58:20 [Shepard]
or do you know, luks?
21:58:21 [Shepard]
ok
21:58:33 [Shepard]
what's it mean? :D
21:58:35 [luks]
pretty perv czech
21:58:43 [luks]
no idea how to translate it :)
21:58:53 [Shepard]
pretending!
21:58:58 [SenRepus]
yea the english ones are pretty messed up
21:59:27 [luks]
it needs some accents, though
21:59:39 [SenRepus]
http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=502710
21:59:42 [SenRepus]
help yourself :p
21:59:55 [SenRepus]
ill stick with fixing the cover info and english caps
22:00:57 [Shepard]
jesus..
22:01:15 [SenRepus]
yea
22:01:15 [Shepard]
ok luks, I really don't wanna know ;)
22:01:40 [SenRepus]
id like to note that im just looking for cover tracks to remove cover information
22:01:41 [luks]
I'm just looking at their other albums
22:01:51 [SenRepus]
not trying to find this... horrible... abomination of humanity
22:07:50 [SenRepus]
you know a band has some real creative genius... with tracks like "The Art of Cum-Farting"
22:09:15 [ruaok]
* ruaok didn't know there was an art to that
22:13:13 [SenRepus]
there needs to be a "I don't want to know" release option for these releases
22:14:36 [SenRepus]
also: hi sheppy
22:14:43 [Shepard]
hey :)
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22:17:35 [Jugdish]
" tail in supercharger water hose up aorta tube "
22:17:41 [Jugdish]
that's how intertran translated it
22:17:45 [Jugdish]
haha
22:22:29 [SenRepus]
sheppy, how do you say colors of autumn in german
22:25:03 [ruaok]
Herbstfarben
22:27:03 [SenRepus]
uhg another poorly done cover album
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23:10:58 [BrianG]
lukz should have drawn pictures
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