IRC log of musicbrainz-devel on 2014-03-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:24:53 [UmkaDK]
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- 00:38:07 [mr_alias]
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- 00:38:28 [CatQuest]
- I want OUT OF THE "POISONOUS" CATEGORY OK?
- 00:52:42 [esra]
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- 01:48:11 [esra]
- Freso: https://github.com/metabrainz/critiquebrainz/pulls
- 01:54:48 [esra]
- Freso: i don't know is it ok? i tried to fix my patches, but i couldn't delete last commit
- 02:52:32 [JesseW1]
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- 08:08:11 [guest1234]
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- 08:10:46 [guest1234]
- Using MusicBrainz Picard on Windows, when I select a song in the right pane, I get a list of tags along with their values in the lower pane. Question 1: Is it possible to customize the visible tags in that lower pane? Question 2: If I have to remove value from a certain tag, I have noticed that "remove value" does not remove it. I need to type a space and save that instead. Is that normal?
- 08:48:22 [ruaok]
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- 09:43:39 [ruaok_]
- Mineo: ping
- 09:49:49 [Mineo]
- ruaok_: pong
- 09:50:42 [ruaok]
- * ruaok goes for brekky
- 10:08:19 [Gentlecat]
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- 10:31:45 [chirlu`]
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- 10:50:36 [dufferzafar]
- I have uploaded the GSoC proposal. Is there anything else i am supposed to do till it is reviewed?
- 11:08:21 [ruaok]
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- 11:16:41 [ruaok]
- nikki: ping
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- exit
- 11:21:54 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 12:01:48 [dufferzafar]
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- 12:06:17 [nikki]
- ruaok: pong
- 12:06:35 [ruaok]
- hola-moin!
- 12:06:39 [nikki]
- moin
- 12:06:49 [ruaok]
- do you have a list of finished schema change tickets for me?
- 12:06:56 [ruaok]
- or even promised ones?
- 12:06:59 [ruaok]
- if you have those?
- 12:20:53 [nikki]
- ruaok: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%3D+MBS+AND+fixVersion+%3D+%22Schema+change%2C+2014-05-13%22+ORDER+BY+priority+DESC%2C+key+DESC&mode=hide those are all of the ones I know about
- 12:21:30 [ruaok]
- chirlu` is doing MBS-2954
- 12:21:30 [mb-chat-logger]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2954
- 12:21:52 [nikki]
- I thought we didn't even know how we wanted to do that
- 12:22:19 [chirlu`]
- No, but I have an idea.
- 12:22:27 [chirlu`]
- I began writing about it yesterday. :)
- 12:22:36 [ruaok]
- but do we have an agreement that this is something we do want?
- 12:22:43 [ruaok]
- and are willing to commit to it?
- 12:23:28 [chirlu`]
- I guess everyone agrees at least about the minimal version (a “circa” flag).
- 12:24:13 [chirlu`]
- * chirlu` assigns the ticket
- 12:24:55 [ruaok]
- ok, are you committing to doing this?
- 12:25:22 [nikki]
- I guess everyone agrees we want something more flexible, but you and hawke seem to be the only ones out of the people who responded on the wiki page in favour of a single checkbox
- 12:25:51 [ruaok]
- is the confusion/unsettled issues regarding the UI, but the underlying schema change is clear?
- 12:25:56 [nikki]
- no
- 12:26:03 [chirlu`]
- I am not actually in favour of a single flag.
- 12:26:21 [dufferzafar]
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- 12:26:45 [ruaok]
- what options are there?
- 12:27:02 [chirlu`]
- a) just a flag circa/exact
- 12:27:24 [chirlu`]
- b) exact/circa/before/after
- 12:28:05 [chirlu`]
- c) circa plus a definition of "how circa"
- 12:28:20 [chirlu`]
- such as "a few days more or less", "a few weeks" etc.
- 12:28:49 [ruaok]
- b seems like a reasonable approach.
- 12:29:01 [ruaok]
- a is too simple and c seems overkill.
- 12:29:15 [chirlu`]
- c could be made so that the different options are not fixed in the schema.
- 12:29:37 [chirlu`]
- b has several problems, e.g. how to sort "before" and "after" dates.
- 12:30:07 [nikki]
- surely you'd just sort them as the date given? it's not like there's anything else you can use
- 12:30:29 [ruaok]
- seems reasonable to me
- 12:30:42 [chirlu`]
- Yes, but that doesn’t make sense with “after” and “before”.
- 12:30:52 [nikki]
- +/- days/months/years has the same problem, since where does 1900 +/- years sort?
- 12:30:53 [chirlu`]
- It would with option c, though.
- 12:31:07 [chirlu`]
- No, not the same problem.
- 12:31:27 [chirlu`]
- Because c has a “center” value.
- 12:31:51 [Freso]
- You can calculate a center value from b.
- 12:31:54 [nikki]
- but it's still inaccurately sorted :P
- 12:32:16 [nikki]
- before 1900 means 1900 at the latest, I don't see how that makes sorting it with 1900 completely wrong or weird
- 12:32:17 [chirlu`]
- “after 1949” < “before 1950”?
- 12:32:48 [nikki]
- possibly, possibly not
- 12:32:55 [Freso]
- chirlu`: Oh, so you'd just implement a single field with one of those four values?
- 12:32:58 [chirlu`]
- Of course sorting will be inaccurate, that’s because the data is approximate. :-)
- 12:33:11 [chirlu`]
- Freso: I think that is what option b is.
- 12:33:44 [chirlu`]
- (But I didn’t invent it, so I don’t know for sure. :-))
- 12:33:47 [Freso]
- My comment, which AFAICT introduced the before/after concept in the ticket, was about making a range.
- 12:34:00 [nikki]
- we could just add/subtract random numbers and when someone asks why "before 1950" sorts between 1945 and 1946, we can say "well, it's before 1950!" :P
- 12:34:16 [chirlu`]
- But that’s a really massive schema change.
- 12:34:21 [Freso]
- So you could say it started after 1930 but before 1933, and ended after 1999, but before 2010.
- 12:34:29 [Freso]
- Sure. :)
- 12:34:41 [chirlu`]
- (replacing each date field by two)
- 12:34:50 [Freso]
- I know.
- 12:35:03 [chirlu`]
- The UI mockups provided for option b all don’t have a range.
- 12:35:04 [Freso]
- And I don't know how to make the UI wieldy for that.
- 12:35:16 [Freso]
- I'm just noting that that was the original intent/suggestion.
- 12:36:05 [chirlu`]
- Essentially, option c is just a range. But you give the center (or the most likely point in time), not explicit end points.
- 12:36:42 [chirlu`]
- As I said, I have begun writing about this and even made a small mockup, too.
- 12:37:32 [chirlu`]
- http://imgur.com/c9YyMqk
- 12:37:50 [nikki]
- anyway I'm more in favour of b) because a) and c) don't really solve the problem of entering before/after unless you pick an arbitrary centre point
- 12:38:15 [ruaok]
- +1 to b
- 12:38:30 [Freso]
- +1 for b too
- 12:38:48 [chirlu`]
- Often, the center point isn’t that arbitrary.
- 12:39:10 [chirlu`]
- E.g. for Beethoven we are relatively sure about his birthdate.
- 12:39:12 [Freso]
- chirlu`: "Also, sometimes "circa" isn't something we know at all, say, we can know a composer died "after 1553" because that's the last year we have stuff written by him or whatever, but that certainly doesn't translate to him dying "circa 1553". Or if something is released in 1975, it is likely that it was recorded reasonably close to that date, but the only think we can know without guessing is
- 12:39:15 [Freso]
- it was recorded before 1975"
- 12:39:20 [Freso]
- (quoting reo.)
- 12:39:33 [chirlu`]
- Also about Cobain’s death date.
- 12:40:10 [chirlu`]
- Freso: Right, but that’s stuff for an annotation.
- 12:40:27 [chirlu`]
- So, I conclude the ticket is not actionable. :-(
- 12:40:30 [Freso]
- But you can't use c) for either of those cases.
- 12:40:34 [nikki]
- sure, it's not always arbitrary, but using examples of circa dates doesn't explain how it works for before/after dates :P
- 12:40:50 [Freso]
- You've got +3 for b, didn't you?
- 12:41:29 [nikki]
- * nikki notes that the beethovenhaus here has a date written on the wall and every time she goes past she means to check if it's the same date we or wikipedia list
- 12:41:31 [Freso]
- If you prefer c) and don't want to work on/with b), then sure, it isn't actionable.
- 12:42:09 [chirlu`]
- I don’t think I’m the only one to dislike b.
- 12:42:39 [chirlu`]
- But it probably needs more discussion that there is time for now.
- 12:42:45 [Freso]
- Put it on tonight's agenda?
- 12:42:58 [ruaok]
- * ruaok eyes Freso skeptical
- 12:43:08 [chirlu`]
- nikki: MB has it wrong in any case.
- 12:43:27 [ruaok]
- I was hoping to make the schema change announcement today, as I leave for London tomorrow.
- 12:43:44 [chirlu`]
- WP doesn’t give an explicit birthdate.
- 12:44:04 [ruaok]
- nikki: take a picture and attach it as proof to the edit. :)
- 12:44:25 [nikki]
- heh
- 12:44:25 [Freso]
- ruaok: It's not like the agenda's overflowing with items... also, you can announce the schema changes we know will happen, and if chirlu` happens to come around and see the light of b), then we just get an extra one thrown in "for free".
- 12:44:53 [ruaok]
- no. I need to announce a complete list.
- 12:45:03 [chirlu`]
- Freso: I guess the data feed users won’t like a free one. :-)
- 12:45:15 [ruaok]
- I can hold off on it until tonight, but I suspect that we're not going find a nice and easy compromise to this.
- 12:45:29 [ruaok]
- if the 4 of us can't easily agree, then it will only get worse during the meeting.
- 12:45:44 [chirlu`]
- I will in any case finish what I was writing about c.
- 12:46:12 [nikki]
- sorry for throwing spanners in the works :/
- 12:46:13 [ruaok]
- chirlu`: do you care if this gets postponed til autumn?
- 12:46:20 [ruaok]
- nikki: that's your job!
- 12:47:10 [chirlu`]
- Well, we have been living without an “approximate” marker for several years, haven’t we?
- 12:47:28 [chirlu`]
- And MB is still alive. :-)
- 12:47:32 [ruaok]
- I know that, but I was wondering how passionate you are about this.
- 12:47:48 [ruaok]
- I'm trying to be more conservative when it comes to picking schema change tickets.
- 12:48:08 [ruaok]
- and this one doesn't feel settled at all, so I am inclined to exclude it.
- 12:48:16 [chirlu`]
- I won’t be angry if it gets postponed.
- 12:48:23 [ruaok]
- if you're ok with that then, I'll go ahead and do that.
- 12:48:34 [chirlu`]
- OK.
- 12:48:38 [ruaok]
- but, we should talk about this anyay.
- 12:48:50 [ruaok]
- Freso is right -- the meeting i chocked full of stuff already. :)
- 12:49:38 [ruaok]
- ruaok has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: General questions, gsoc, MBS-2954
- 12:49:46 [chirlu`]
- nikki: What wording would you propose for “inclusive-after” and “inclusive-before”, in case of option b?
- 12:50:54 [Freso]
- chirlu`: FWIW, hawke's page has 2:1:3 vote for c:a:b as well.
- 12:51:02 [nikki]
- uhhhh
- 12:51:06 [Freso]
- Perhaps a way to mix c+b would be the way to go.
- 12:51:08 [nikki]
- is running away an option? :D
- 12:51:29 [chirlu`]
- Try and see if you will be caught. ;-)
- 12:51:38 [nikki]
- * nikki can't run that fast
- 12:51:43 [Freso]
- So you could have "after (but within 50 days)", "circa (within 2 years)", "before (within 1 month)".
- 12:52:54 [chirlu`]
- Freso: Hmm.
- 12:52:58 [nikki]
- "on or before" and "on or after" are the only things I can really think of, but I'd probably just use "before" and "after" and write somewhere that it should be interpreted to include the current date... if people don't read the docs, well, they'll just include an extra year in the range :P
- 12:53:38 [chirlu`]
- People don’t read the docs.
- 12:53:54 [Freso]
- ... and they'll just include an extra year in the range.
- 12:54:01 [Freso]
- As nikki already said.
- 12:54:02 [nikki]
- my point is that it won't be wrong if they interpret it to mean exclusive
- 12:54:39 [chirlu`]
- Freso: You would still need to choose an arbitrary length.
- 12:55:06 [Freso]
- chirlu`: Leaving the field empty could mean an unknown period.
- 12:55:17 [chirlu`]
- “Died after 1553, and was 50 at the time, so can’t reasonably have lived more than 20 years.”
- 12:55:29 [chirlu`]
- “… after that.”
- 12:55:40 [Freso]
- Or "Died after 1553."
- 12:55:47 [Freso]
- Full stop.
- 12:55:53 [dufferzafar]
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- 12:56:24 [Freso]
- Even with "pure" c), you will have instances where you don't know the range.
- 12:57:13 [Freso]
- It was released sometime around Feb. 2012, but was it Nov '11? Dec '11? Apr '12? It probably not more than 1 year away from that... maybe.
- 12:58:41 [Freso]
- Regardless of the variant of c), it needs to accept an empty value for the "range" field.
- 12:59:10 [chirlu`]
- Yes.
- 13:00:21 [chirlu`]
- Re: some time around Feb 2012, you wouldn’t enter 2012-02 if it could be wrong by a year or more.
- 13:00:49 [Freso]
- Why not? Isn't that what circa is there for?
- 13:05:14 [chirlu`]
- Why February when you don’t know anything about the time of year?
- 13:05:32 [chirlu`]
- c. 2012 instead.
- 13:08:52 [nikki]
- if someone said circa february 2012 to me, I wouldn't interpret it to mean anything other than "january, february or march 2012", december 2011 and april 2012 would be really pushing it, anything beyond that would just be completely wrong to me
- 13:10:18 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 13:56:00 [esra]
- ruaok: i sent my patches on github, https://github.com/metabrainz/critiquebrainz/pulls
- 13:56:26 [esra]
- Freso: i fixed last pull request, can you look them https://github.com/metabrainz/critiquebrainz/pulls
- 13:56:27 [ruaok]
- I saw them.
- 13:56:34 [ruaok]
- now please, stop pestering me about them, ok?
- 13:58:06 [esra]
- ruaok: ok
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- 14:39:31 [ruaok]
- ruaok has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: General questions, {schema change docs, gsoc, MBS-2954} ruaok
- 14:58:34 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 15:00:31 [mb-chat-logger]
- New post: blog: Next schema change release: May 15, 2014 <http://blog.musicbrainz.org/2014/03/17/next-schema-change-release-may-15-2014/>
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- 16:15:37 [ruaok]
- hehe
- 16:15:38 [ruaok]
- http://paddynotpatty.com/
- 16:19:28 [Freso]
- +1
- 16:20:26 [Freso]
- Love the Twitter search.
- 16:22:34 [reosarevok]
- hahaha
- 16:36:02 [xram_]
- Is there a draft guideline already about what will be included in "Series" besides Compilation Vol. X ? I'd like to see how we'll be able to dive into these future datas
- 16:36:14 [xram_]
- maybe rather belongs to #musicbrainz
- 16:37:44 [reosarevok]
- Not really
- 16:38:23 [reosarevok]
- But I'd expect at least unordered things ("collections") to be there too
- 16:38:32 [reosarevok]
- If we get them for works already in May, classical catalogues
- 16:38:45 [xram_]
- I thought it could overlap with the release group notion
- 16:39:01 [xram_]
- some releases have Part 1 / Part 2 releases
- 16:39:10 [xram_]
- some release groups sorry
- 16:39:21 [xram_]
- will it change something about that in your opinion ?
- 16:39:43 [reosarevok]
- Whether that's a series or not is unclear at the moment. I've never really liked having both of those in the same RG myself :)
- 16:40:02 [reosarevok]
- We'll see how series are implemented first
- 16:40:15 [reosarevok]
- Then people can start thinking what to do with grey areas :)
- 16:40:41 [xram_]
- k! thanks
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- 20:00:08 [ruaok]
- BANG!
- 20:00:17 [Freso]
- SNAP!
- 20:00:25 [ruaok]
- whats news in the MB world?
- 20:00:46 [ruaok]
- * ruaok now knows what he's going to do to Freso at the next summit
- 20:00:50 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop read the topic wrong, and was wondering why it was "Freso week"
- 20:00:53 [Freso]
- Uh oh.
- 20:00:56 [Ben____]
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- 20:01:02 [Freso]
- Haha.
- 20:01:05 [barrynorton]
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- 20:01:09 [Freso]
- Every week's Freso week. ;)
- 20:01:17 [chirlu`]
- Freeze-no week?
- 20:01:33 [ruaok]
- well, here in spain its fresa season.
- 20:01:39 [ruaok]
- (strawberries)
- 20:01:41 [Freso]
- Mmm.
- 20:01:50 [LordSputnik]
- hey guys, thought i'd drop in :)
- 20:01:51 [ruaok]
- 2 months earlier than I am used to.
- 20:01:56 [kepstin-laptop]
- it's getting close to maple season here :)
- 20:01:56 [ruaok]
- hi LordSputnik
- 20:01:58 [Freso]
- It will be soon in Denmark too.
- 20:01:59 [ruaok]
- long time no see!
- 20:02:04 [Freso]
- Yo Ben.
- 20:02:16 [LordSputnik]
- I've been a bit busy with work :(
- 20:02:16 [ruaok]
- there is maple season? really?
- 20:02:35 [kepstin-laptop]
- yeah, maple tapping happens only in a very limited time in the spring, based on weather.
- 20:02:54 [ruaok]
- I had no idea.
- 20:03:07 [ruaok]
- right then.
- 20:03:18 [ruaok]
- s/general questions/general seasonal nonsense/
- 20:03:30 [ruaok]
- any general questions, relating to MB?
- 20:03:37 [ruaok]
- who is actually awake??
- 20:03:42 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae is now
- 20:03:43 [ruaok]
- \ø
- 20:03:47 [ruaok]
- moin ianmcorvidae
- 20:03:51 [nikki]
- * nikki is mostly here
- 20:04:10 [ruaok]
- onward then.
- 20:04:15 [bitmap]
- * bitmap here
- 20:04:28 [ruaok]
- if there are no general discussion bits, then lets move on to the few topics at hand
- 20:04:35 [ruaok]
- schema change docs.
- 20:05:02 [ruaok]
- since we're not requiring separate SQL/UI tickets its not quite clear what the actual SQL changes will be.
- 20:05:35 [ruaok]
- right now people have to go and read the tickets and/or the pull requests to fully understand wtf.
- 20:05:50 [ruaok]
- we should really document all the schema change bits in a more concrete manner.
- 20:05:51 [Freso]
- Freso has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: {schema change docs, gsoc, MBS-2954} ruaok
- 20:05:58 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok appears
- 20:06:07 [reosarevok]
- Sowwy, was on http://doge2048.com/ and missed the time :p
- 20:06:28 [bitmap]
- haha
- 20:06:29 [kepstin-laptop]
- ideally in a format that can be combined together later, to release a schema change update document for other db users
- 20:06:36 [barrynorton]
- in order to be a bit more proactive with the RDF generation, when and how will I know what the SQL changes will be?
- 20:06:40 [ruaok]
- for the tickets that are not in review yet, can we document the changes of the SQL soonish so that we can tell live data feed users what we are changing?
- 20:06:54 [ruaok]
- * ruaok points to barrynorton
- 20:07:08 [ruaok]
- thanks for supporting my point, barrynorton
- 20:07:13 [barrynorton]
- :)
- 20:07:49 [ruaok]
- ianmcorvidae and bitmap: I think this mostly applies to you two.
- 20:07:54 [bitmap]
- I'll be working on the schema changes for series today, at least
- 20:08:13 [ruaok]
- are your admin/sql/update scripts solid yet?
- 20:08:34 [bitmap]
- not yet
- 20:08:41 [ruaok]
- [aahhhhh, close doge tab!]
- 20:08:49 [Freso]
- * Freso too
- 20:09:02 [ruaok]
- any idea when they might be stable, bitmap ianmcorvidae ?
- 20:09:04 [ianmcorvidae]
- where do you want me to put it, I guess? I don't have any upgrade script yet, but most of mine will be updating specific link types, the real schema changes will just be adding two columns
- 20:09:58 [ruaok]
- ianmcorvidae: hmm. I guess a blog post is warranted here.
- 20:10:20 [ruaok]
- how about mailing the details to me and I'll collect them into a post?
- 20:10:39 [ianmcorvidae]
- okay, seems decent
- 20:10:40 [ruaok]
- reosarevok, nikki: can you please do that for your tickets as well?
- 20:11:02 [reosarevok]
- Mine is on review already so it's already documented
- 20:11:20 [reosarevok]
- Do I mail you a link to the upgrade script?
- 20:11:33 [ruaok]
- reosarevok: understood, but a human readable summary would be lovely.
- 20:11:40 [reosarevok]
- Oh
- 20:11:57 [nikki]
- ok
- 20:11:59 [reosarevok]
- Ok, "human-readable summary" and "the details" seemed like different things in my head :p
- 20:12:02 [reosarevok]
- Will do
- 20:12:06 [bitmap]
- I think I can have something stable by tomorrow
- 20:12:57 [barrynorton]
- humans are over-rated ;)
- 20:12:59 [ruaok]
- ok, lets do that.
- 20:13:17 [ruaok]
- I'll pester all of you in the next few days.
- 20:13:33 [ruaok]
- lets see if I can get an updated email with HRS out on friday, if not later.
- 20:13:37 [ruaok]
- earlier. yeah.
- 20:13:43 [chirlu`]
- chirlu` has joined #musicbrainz-devel
- 20:13:46 [ruaok]
- ok, gsoc.
- 20:14:07 [ruaok]
- I saw bitmap and nikki have posted some comments on proposals
- 20:14:09 [ruaok]
- thanks!
- 20:14:39 [ruaok]
- when you're full caffeinated, please chime in.
- 20:14:53 [ruaok]
- (that was meant ianmcorvidae)
- 20:14:54 [chirlu`]
- chirlu` has joined #musicbrainz-devel
- 20:15:20 [ruaok]
- any other gsoc questions?
- 20:15:30 [ruaok]
- not even solr-drama related?
- 20:15:55 [esra]
- i will send proposal for critiquebrainz
- 20:16:08 [ruaok]
- esra: ok, thanks for the pull request.
- 20:16:18 [ruaok]
- just in the future, please dont mail bomb us.
- 20:16:42 [ruaok]
- esra: any other questions about gsoc?
- 20:16:49 [ruaok]
- do we have other students present?
- 20:16:59 [chirlu`]
- chirlu` has joined #musicbrainz-devel
- 20:17:14 [ianmcorvidae]
- other than reo, maybe not :P
- 20:17:16 [esra]
- ok, i don't mail bomb you :)
- 20:17:22 [ruaok]
- esra: :)
- 20:17:57 [ruaok]
- ok, sounds like gsoc things are under control.
- 20:18:15 [ruaok]
- chirlu`: are you up for talking about MBS-2954?
- 20:18:15 [mb-chat-logger]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2954
- 20:18:31 [esra]
- sorry i will not mail bomb you* :)
- 20:18:39 [chirlu`]
- Had some software trouble, but it seems I’m back, yes.
- 20:19:00 [chirlu`]
- Didn’t finish what I was writing yet, though. :-(
- 20:19:04 [ruaok]
- this ticket was not included in the may schema release because there was no consensus around this ticket.
- 20:19:16 [ruaok]
- chirlu`: should we just hold off until you do?
- 20:19:25 [ruaok]
- at this point we have a few months time. :)
- 20:19:26 [UmkaDK]
- UmkaDK has left #musicbrainz-devel
- 20:19:26 [Freso]
- Freso has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: {gsoc, MBS-2954} ruaok
- 20:19:34 [chirlu`]
- Perhaps best. I guess it’s not urgent anymore.
- 20:19:47 [ruaok]
- ok.
- 20:20:20 [ruaok]
- ok, that was it for official topics.
- 20:20:25 [Freso]
- Freso has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: DR?
- 20:20:27 [ruaok]
- do we have DR tickets? other topics?
- 20:20:34 [ruaok]
- shall we just beat up on Freso?
- 20:20:36 [chirlu`]
- MBS-7351 perhaps.
- 20:20:36 [mb-chat-logger]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-7351
- 20:20:51 [chirlu`]
- I wonder if it should be wontfixed.
- 20:21:03 [chirlu`]
- The alternatives would be: a) wait for a New Edit System;
- 20:21:30 [chirlu`]
- b) make it deterministic by adding ORDER BY clause, but I fear it won’t do much good.
- 20:21:37 [chirlu`]
- +an
- 20:21:58 [nikki]
- c) write a new merge edit type which lets people pick which data to use instead of leaving it as a surprise :)
- 20:22:11 [chirlu`]
- Or that, yes. :-)
- 20:22:34 [ruaok]
- unless c is giant pita, I'm all for that.
- 20:22:38 [chirlu`]
- Still, I’m not sure about the effort/gain ratio.
- 20:22:40 [nikki]
- I think b) is more work than it's worth, since people still won't really know what to expect
- 20:22:58 [chirlu`]
- Agree about b).
- 20:23:52 [ruaok]
- does anyone have an idea what amount of effort c would be?
- 20:24:19 [ruaok]
- * ruaok pokes ianmcorvidae and bitmap
- 20:24:19 [chirlu`]
- Quite a bit, I think.
- 20:24:24 [bitmap]
- well, for c) we can just store a list of release labels to use in the edit data, right? the UI portion might be tricky
- 20:24:49 [ianmcorvidae]
- the bit that concerns me about c) is that it's basically creating a bunch more things to conflict
- 20:25:36 [ruaok]
- maybe not a pita. a wicket?
- 20:25:54 [ruaok]
- not easy solutions, either way.
- 20:26:24 [chirlu`]
- c would also require editors to look up the open merge edit so that they know which data they may change.
- 20:26:25 [ianmcorvidae]
- I think it wouldn't necessarily be a huge amount of work, anyway, but I think we'd want to think about how to deal with all the possibilities in terms of changes happening between the merge edit opening and closing
- 20:26:45 [ianmcorvidae]
- (which really we should do anyway, because merge behavior is pretty wacky at present, so maybe that's not a vote against)
- 20:26:46 [ruaok]
- what if we wontfix with a comment of "if someone has new ideas beyond this <link> discussion" please open a new ticket?
- 20:27:28 [ruaok]
- ianmcorvidae: wasn't that one of the big ideas behind NES?
- 20:28:09 [chirlu`]
- Yes, that’s why I capitalized the words in a). :-)
- 20:28:29 [ianmcorvidae]
- I mean, if you make it as generic as "make merging better", sort of?
- 20:29:03 [ianmcorvidae]
- thinking about how we want merges to behave certainly doesn't require waiting for anything though :P
- 20:29:09 [ruaok]
- chirlu`: heh
- 20:29:34 [ruaok]
- but, does that make 7351 actionable?
- 20:29:45 [ruaok]
- (directed at ianmcorvidae)
- 20:30:42 [ianmcorvidae]
- I don't know. Presumably we've changed to discussing nikki's proposal, which may have its own ticket
- 20:31:38 [ruaok]
- ok, I vote we close it with a wontfix and think about this more. there isn't enough substance for us to really act on anything.
- 20:31:49 [ruaok]
- thoughts?
- 20:32:36 [bitmap]
- it seems odd to wontfix it since it's a legitimate problem, but maybe there's already a more general ticket
- 20:33:34 [nikki]
- I'm not sure if it's covered by another ticket or not
- 20:33:47 [ruaok]
- well the solution isn't at hand.
- 20:33:59 [ruaok]
- I'm open for how to settle this to "not proceed"/
- 20:34:13 [ruaok]
- close ticket? open new one? comment, but leave open?
- 20:34:20 [nikki]
- comment but leave open
- 20:34:22 [bitmap]
- mark as DR where the decision is how to do c)?
- 20:34:33 [ruaok]
- comment and DR!
- 20:34:43 [ruaok]
- that sounds like the perfect combo.
- 20:34:49 [ruaok]
- please lets do that.
- 20:35:01 [nikki]
- it's more "development required" than "decision required" imo :P
- 20:35:16 [chirlu`]
- Same acronym.
- 20:35:31 [nikki]
- the jira statuses aren't acronyms :P
- 20:35:33 [ruaok]
- "close enough"
- 20:35:35 [chirlu`]
- “Idea required”?
- 20:35:40 [nikki]
- anyway sure, we'll just have to rediscuss it later
- 20:36:36 [ruaok]
- heh. someone please comment on that. :)
- 20:37:14 [ruaok]
- so, other DRs?
- 20:37:24 [nikki]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-5611
- 20:37:53 [nikki]
- I basically agree with ian's suggestion
- 20:38:22 [ruaok]
- all seems reasonable.
- 20:38:22 [Freso]
- +1 to ian's suggestion
- 20:38:24 [reosarevok]
- +1
- 20:38:29 [bitmap]
- +1
- 20:38:38 [chirlu`]
- +1
- 20:38:41 [ianmcorvidae]
- heh, man, that was a year ago?
- 20:38:48 [LordSputnik]
- +1 ;)
- 20:38:53 [Freso]
- And some months :)
- 20:38:54 [ianmcorvidae]
- still, seems fine to me even a year later :P
- 20:39:00 [bitmap]
- heh
- 20:39:04 [ianmcorvidae]
- nah my comment was march 21st of last year :P
- 20:39:05 [Freso]
- Aw.
- 20:39:10 [ruaok]
- motion carried. next, nikki ?
- 20:39:11 [Freso]
- Ah. Right.
- 20:39:30 [nikki]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-3112
- 20:39:52 [kepstin-laptop]
- has this changed with the new release editor?
- 20:40:02 [nikki]
- no, it still tabs to cancel before submit
- 20:40:39 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae can only abstain here, I'm never really sure what's appropriate for a tab order
- 20:40:59 [bitmap]
- do we need a cancel button? :P
- 20:41:16 [kepstin-laptop]
- isn't navigating elsewhere the same as cancelling nowadays? :)
- 20:41:29 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 20:41:41 [nikki]
- more or less, but I'm not sure that's all that obvious on a page like http://musicbrainz.org/release/add
- 20:41:42 [reosarevok]
- I'm not sure what we have the button for, myself
- 20:41:44 [Freso]
- * Freso doesn't care about a cancel btton
- 20:41:56 [Freso]
- :p
- 20:42:20 [Freso]
- I do agree that "Submit" should be before "Cancel" in the tab order though.
- 20:42:38 [ianmcorvidae]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-15 :P
- 20:42:44 [ruaok]
- I never understood the cancel button, honestly.
- 20:42:58 [ruaok]
- fifteen?
- 20:42:59 [nikki]
- we also tab to the cancel button before the submit button for the "relate to" thing, but at least there I can press enter from the text field
- 20:43:53 [bitmap]
- to me cancel button makes sense for dialogs, but not for the entire page I guess
- 20:43:59 [nikki]
- and on the other release editor tabs, removing the cancel button will make it tab to "previous" first, which still doesn't make sense
- 20:44:06 [bitmap]
- that's true
- 20:44:45 [bitmap]
- I'd be fine with switching those
- 20:46:01 [ruaok]
- can we just get rid of all cancel buttons?
- 20:46:14 [ianmcorvidae]
- ruaok: nikki's comment pointed out that doesn't solve the ticket
- 20:46:21 [ruaok]
- damn,
- 20:46:24 [Freso]
- * Freso wouldn't mind
- 20:47:23 [ruaok]
- * ruaok is loosing focus.
- 20:47:30 [ruaok]
- I'm not sure what to do.
- 20:47:40 [ruaok]
- thoughts?
- 20:47:58 [nikki]
- well, the options are reorder the buttons, change the tab order or wontfix
- 20:48:01 [ianmcorvidae]
- if folks who use tab order are okay with switching the tab order for the buttons as proposed, that seems fine; for cancel buttons we don't need to make a decision
- 20:48:12 [bitmap]
- * bitmap is fine with reversing the tab order on the last tab
- 20:48:17 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok never uses the Previous button, so fine with that
- 20:48:20 [reosarevok]
- (reversing)
- 20:48:24 [Freso]
- +1
- 20:48:27 [ianmcorvidae]
- personally I'm fine with any of the options
- 20:48:30 [bitmap]
- or reorder the buttons, I don't mind either
- 20:48:39 [Freso]
- Someone toss a coin!
- 20:48:40 [nikki]
- I think it makes sense for the <- button to be on the left and -> on the right, so I'm more in favour of changing the tab order
- 20:49:05 [ruaok]
- so, we have one concrete thought. change the tab order.
- 20:49:09 [ruaok]
- who objects to that?
- 20:49:16 [Freso]
- * Freso doesn't
- 20:49:22 [bitmap]
- sounds fine
- 20:49:25 [reosarevok]
- Works for me
- 20:49:40 [ruaok]
- ding, sold. change the tab order.
- 20:49:58 [ruaok]
- 11 minutes left, but only about 11 seconds attention left here.
- 20:50:03 [ruaok]
- shall we be done?
- 20:50:13 [ruaok]
- anyone have anything else to cover this week?
- 20:50:20 [ianmcorvidae]
- I'd support that, yeah
- 20:50:26 [reosarevok]
- Nothing from me
- 20:50:37 [ruaok]
- ok, lets be done then.
- 20:50:45 [Freso]
- Happy St. Paddy's everybody.
- 20:50:54 [Freso]
- /SNAP
- 20:51:04 [Freso]
- :p
- 20:51:06 [ruaok]
- I will be afk for large chunks this week as I am leaving for london in the morning.
- 20:51:13 [ruaok]
- email is best.
- 20:51:14 [ruaok]
- thanks everyone!
- 20:51:20 [ruaok]
- /BANG
- 20:53:26 [chirlu`]
- I was thinking it might be useful for the ISE page to include a timestamp, so that we can see if relevant edits were still open/already cancelled/etc. at the time. Would anyone mind if I send a pull request for that?
- 20:54:25 [bitmap]
- * bitmap wouldn't
- 20:55:31 [chirlu`]
- OK, I’ll make a ticket first.
- 20:56:43 [ianmcorvidae]
- yeah, that seems like a good idea
- 20:58:19 [mr_alias]
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- 21:05:09 [navap__]
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- 21:12:30 [chirlu`]
- ianmcorvidae: MBS-7350 (beta-only bug that may cause editors to inadvertently remove cover art types) should be considered for merging before the release, I think.
- 21:12:32 [mb-chat-logger]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-7350
- 21:12:35 [chirlu`]
- https://bitbucket.org/metabrainz/musicbrainz-server/pull-request/815/mbs-7350-load-cover-art-types-for-edit
- 21:12:38 [mb-chat-logger]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-7350
- 21:12:58 [ianmcorvidae]
- ah, yes, possibly
- 21:13:01 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae goes to review
- 22:05:07 [ianmcorvidae]
- ianmcorvidae has changed the topic to: Freeze week | Agenda: unattended apt upgrades (ian), DR?
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- 23:34:34 [reosarevok]
- alastairp, tell your minion... er, coworkers to start adding work attributes ;)
- 23:34:39 [reosarevok]
- (well, from tomorrow)
- 23:36:17 [rvedotrc]
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- 23:37:14 [ianmcorvidae]
- well, from now :P
- 23:37:23 [reosarevok]
- haha
- 23:37:28 [ianmcorvidae]
- (as of now it's on all the frontends that are up :P)