IRC log of musicbrainz on 2005-01-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

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01:31:48 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata giggles
01:31:54 [cikkolata]
I love that foot picture.
01:42:27 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata wonders
01:42:59 [cikkolata]
is the past tense of treat spelt treat? am I making up words?
01:43:18 [cikkolata]
like read (reed) and read (red)
01:57:25 [dupuy]
treated
01:59:52 [cikkolata]
hmm...
02:00:01 [cikkolata]
I rarely say treated though
02:03:47 [cikkolata]
I can't actually think of a sentence where treated sounds better to me
02:03:51 [cikkolata]
there must be some.
02:04:46 [cikkolata]
like crept and creeped
02:07:57 [DJKC]
may be a british thing, in US English treated is the only form I can recall having heard used
02:08:02 [DJKC]
and who's foot is that anyway
02:09:57 [cikkolata]
it most likely is a british thing, like all our other -t verbs, dreamt, slept, burnt, spelt, spilt?
02:10:07 [cikkolata]
but I'm trying to work out how to spell it
02:10:10 [cikkolata]
treat seems wrong
02:10:38 [DJKC]
the rest of those sound common
02:10:52 [DJKC]
just treated I've never heard any other forms for
02:11:11 [cikkolata]
I defintely see americans prefer -ed to -t
02:11:24 [cikkolata]
except the ones who love british english
02:11:40 [dupuy]
en_US uses slept, not sleeped
02:11:47 [cikkolata]
oops
02:11:58 [cikkolata]
I knew that, really :x
02:12:01 [dupuy]
but -ed is more common for the rest
02:12:54 [cikkolata]
smelt?
02:13:32 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata giggles
02:13:47 [cikkolata]
I can't say them with -ed without them sounding really odd
02:14:00 [cikkolata]
they just ...trail off.
02:16:28 [DJKC]
I'm used to seeing both all the time
02:16:31 [DJKC]
so I can't really judge
02:16:34 [cikkolata]
I am too
02:16:39 [DJKC]
in spoken I mostly here the -ed versions
02:16:53 [DJKC]
but most of what I read for books in English are by British authors
02:18:26 [cikkolata]
I can't really explain what I mean :x
02:27:26 [cikkolata]
bleh, anime soundtracks always seem to be so messy.
02:33:35 [DJKC]
messy to tag right?
02:33:36 [DJKC]
or?
02:33:50 [cikkolata]
and messy in mb
02:33:50 [DJKC]
I hate ones that have dialog snippets from the show. hate trying to tag them
02:33:55 [cikkolata]
yeah
02:34:09 [DJKC]
I also hate ones where I can't find any artist info whatsoever
02:34:26 [DJKC]
I know I have one or two with tracks attributed to santora in katakana
02:35:10 [cikkolata]
and then anything where yoko kanno is involved...
02:35:21 [DJKC]
heh
02:35:29 [DJKC]
some of her works are pretty straight forward
02:35:33 [DJKC]
it's just she has a lot
02:35:40 [cikkolata]
I remembered why mine are all currently tagged as the anime they're from.
02:35:42 [DJKC]
it could be worse
02:35:47 [DJKC]
it could be m-flo -_-;
02:35:59 [DJKC]
m-flos naming/collaboration/album style hates mb style
02:35:59 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata giggles
02:36:12 [cikkolata]
I saw some time ago when you were talking about it something
02:36:23 [DJKC]
well
02:36:37 [DJKC]
there's issues like how to attribute an m-flo album that has no songs by m-flo on it
02:46:41 [somniloquy]
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02:50:33 [DJKC]
>.<;
02:50:41 [DJKC]
http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2193852
02:50:53 [DJKC]
you'd think people would notice the difference between 69/96 and 96/69
02:51:25 [DJKC]
or that one has 15 tracks while the other has 96...
02:52:08 [cikkolata]
errr...
02:54:31 [DJKC]
hmm
02:54:43 [DJKC]
I wonder if that lightning bolt symbol is in unicode ^^
02:55:13 [DJKC]
probably not if his discography page for it resorted to using a gif there
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02:58:49 [DJKC]
* DJKC entices cikkolata into finding a lightning bolt symbol in unicode like the one in the title of both albums to mod the titles to include it
02:59:05 [cikkolata]
heh, I'm ahead of you
02:59:09 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata is already looking
02:59:40 [DJKC]
heh
02:59:54 [DJKC]
I don't remember there being one but it's been a while since I looked through all the symbols in unicode
03:00:18 [cikkolata]
the only thing I can find is U+26A1
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03:01:22 [DJKC]
that's actually pretty close
03:01:32 [DJKC]
the album one is thicker at top and thinner at the bottom
03:01:38 [DJKC]
but still, close
03:09:15 [DJKC]
hmmm
03:09:30 [DJKC]
do you have any installed fonts that have that character in them? I apparently don't -_-;
03:11:21 [cikkolata]
code2000
03:11:51 [cikkolata]
everson mono unicode
03:12:12 [cikkolata]
and that's it
03:25:34 [crazedmofo]
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03:25:44 [crazedmofo]
poop
03:26:01 [cikkolata]
?
03:26:08 [crazedmofo]
i don't know
03:26:12 [crazedmofo]
just bored
03:26:23 [cikkolata]
ah...
03:26:35 [crazedmofo]
no is talking were is everyone
03:26:37 [crazedmofo]
?
03:27:16 [cikkolata]
we're not a particularly talkative channel most of the time.
03:27:21 [DJKC]
mostly in europe
03:27:24 [crazedmofo]
i can tell
03:27:32 [cikkolata]
oh, that too.
03:27:33 [DJKC]
where it's the wee hours of the night and people should be sleeping :P
03:27:41 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata whistles innocently
03:27:51 [crazedmofo]
well i'm in america
03:27:57 [DJKC]
as am I
03:27:59 [crazedmofo]
it's evening
03:28:08 [DJKC]
mostly that was teasing of cikkolata for her sleeping habits...
03:28:23 [crazedmofo]
crazy woman
03:28:27 [crazedmofo]
j/k
03:30:12 [crazedmofo]
well i'm bored
03:30:18 [crazedmofo]
and getting boreder
03:30:27 [crazedmofo]
see thats not a word
03:30:41 [DJKC]
no, it's not
03:30:48 [DJKC]
you need to go listen to music
03:30:49 [crazedmofo]
it should be
03:30:56 [cikkolata]
like scary jpop.
03:31:03 [crazedmofo]
what?
03:31:13 [DJKC]
mmm
03:31:21 [crazedmofo]
that word doesn't make sense
03:31:33 [DJKC]
at the moment I'm mostly listening to Japanese eurobeat covers of English pop songs
03:31:36 [cikkolata]
I made my friend listen to W - aa ii na, he... gave me weird looks.
03:31:41 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: which? like, scary, or jpop?
03:31:53 [DJKC]
cikkolata: no robokiss? no koi no vacances?
03:31:55 [crazedmofo]
jpop
03:31:59 [DJKC]
should have made him watch the videos
03:32:02 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: Japanese pop
03:32:07 [crazedmofo]
ok
03:32:10 [DJKC]
commonly called Jpop in English
03:32:13 [cikkolata]
well, I think I've used up his jpop quota of the year :(
03:32:14 [DJKC]
and actually in Japanese too
03:32:27 [crazedmofo]
i'm listening to christian metal
03:32:34 [crazedmofo]
if you can belive it
03:32:35 [DJKC]
cikkolata: nah, you just need to play him something closer to his normal tastes
03:32:49 [DJKC]
I can. I'm aware that there's Christian everything
03:32:51 [cikkolata]
the babelfish translation, by the way, is hilarious.
03:33:01 [DJKC]
even, amusingly, Christian Death Metal if I remember right
03:33:09 [crazedmofo]
yes
03:33:11 [DJKC]
cikkolata: of aa ii na?
03:33:14 [cikkolata]
yes
03:33:16 [crazedmofo]
have you ever heard of ZAO
03:33:17 [DJKC]
the lyrics are nonsense mostly anyway
03:33:29 [cikkolata]
the lyrics make more sense when I can't understand most of it
03:33:29 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: I know very few US bands
03:33:34 [DJKC]
or English bands in general
03:33:42 [DJKC]
so no, I don't know them
03:33:49 [crazedmofo]
well it's a very underground basnd
03:33:49 [DJKC]
I'm aware the genre of music exists and that's about it
03:33:53 [crazedmofo]
band*
03:34:07 [crazedmofo]
so i'm sure you wouldn't know about them anyway
03:34:21 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: especially if they're any form of metal
03:34:28 [DJKC]
the only US band I pay attention to is Freezepop
03:34:29 [cikkolata]
"the suitable happiness which ate the huge parfait we would like to date with that you feel person we would like to do well - as for self-depreciation of the date catfish of the AH yearning the gourmet"
03:34:34 [crazedmofo]
you don't like metal?
03:34:44 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: I don't mind it
03:34:50 [DJKC]
but it's not what I listen to most of the time
03:34:58 [DJKC]
cikkolata: that's closish
03:34:59 [crazedmofo]
well what about classical
03:35:13 [cikkolata]
I'm not sure what sort of stuff he normally likes.
03:35:14 [crazedmofo]
thats my favorite
03:35:20 [DJKC]
crazedmofo: a bit. I'm more likely to listen to 150bpm covers of classical stuff
03:35:30 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata laughs
03:35:34 [crazedmofo]
i love classical
03:35:40 [cikkolata]
I could name bands, but you wouldn't know them I bet.
03:35:52 [crazedmofo]
in fact i think i will listen to it right know
03:36:31 [crazedmofo]
very soothing
03:36:34 [DJKC]
cikkolata: my main backgrounds in music are in hardcore punk, industrial, bossa nova, eurobeat, happy hardcore, Japanese everything, and brain rotting girl pop
03:36:36 [crazedmofo]
=)
03:36:53 [crazedmofo]
i love all music
03:36:57 [cikkolata]
hmmm.
03:36:59 [crazedmofo]
but not rap
03:37:06 [crazedmofo]
of course
03:37:25 [DJKC]
I don't mind rap
03:37:34 [DJKC]
I don't listen to much US stuff, fair amount of JP rap though
03:37:38 [crazedmofo]
i don't concider it musoic
03:37:43 [crazedmofo]
music*
03:37:46 [DJKC]
lot less of the "guns, money, and bitches" stuff in the lyrics
03:37:50 [DJKC]
* DJKC is playing [Hardcore Synth Orchestra] - [classical Speed] - [Hungarian Dance No. 5]
03:37:50 [cikkolata]
do you know vnv nation, apoptygma berzerk, covenant, haujobb, funker vogt and stuff like that?
03:38:03 [crazedmofo]
nope
03:38:04 [DJKC]
vnv nation and haujobb
03:38:12 [cikkolata]
good enough.
03:38:17 [cikkolata]
that sort of stuff, I guess.
03:38:30 [DJKC]
for you, you mean?
03:38:35 [cikkolata]
my friend, mostly.
03:38:40 [DJKC]
oh
03:38:48 [DJKC]
hmm...
03:38:49 [cikkolata]
although I tend to like them too
03:39:04 [DJKC]
merzbow comes to mind for some reason
03:39:08 [DJKC]
and loudness
03:39:12 [DJKC]
mad capsule markets maybe
03:39:13 [crazedmofo]
hahaha
03:39:33 [DJKC]
* DJKC is playing [Blue Venice] - [classical Speed] - [Sabre Dance]
03:39:50 [crazedmofo]
man this violin solo i'm listing to is insane
03:40:29 [crazedmofo]
i wish i could do something like that
03:41:01 [crazedmofo]
well i gtg
03:41:04 [crazedmofo]
laterz
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07:32:24 [md-afk]
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07:32:31 [PhUrl]
HI All, any Musibrainz h4ck3rz awake?
07:33:05 [cikkolata]
I'm awake, I don't know if I count as a... h4ck3r
07:33:55 [PhUrl]
well, i wanted to just go over some stuff i am workingg on ...
07:34:04 [PhUrl]
maybe you are a programmer?
07:34:29 [cikkolata]
hmm, kinda. I've yet to do much more than mb_server though.
07:34:58 [PhUrl]
i am working on a new tagger now
07:35:06 [PhUrl]
it has been running all night
07:35:10 [cikkolata]
oh?
07:35:17 [PhUrl]
i have 20k mp3s
07:35:31 [PhUrl]
all it does is extract the informatino from mp3info
07:35:38 [PhUrl]
into a tab separated file
07:35:48 [PhUrl]
next i will create TRMS from that file
07:35:51 [PhUrl]
sort them
07:36:17 [PhUrl]
and merge them against the sorted trms extracted from the db, that i packed into a 50mb vector
07:36:52 [PhUrl]
that should allow me to remove duplicates and identify what files are in the database in one shot
07:37:11 [PhUrl]
and be much more efficent than the old tagger.
07:40:00 [PhUrl]
what do you think?
07:40:35 [cikkolata]
I'm not sure, I haven't really looked at TRMs.
07:42:18 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata dies of shock
07:42:35 [cikkolata]
I don't know what I did, but opera finally stopped using a shitty font for kanji
07:43:12 [cikkolata]
I spent months trying to make it stop using shitty fonts and now it's randomly decided it likes me...
07:43:15 [cikkolata]
what the hell.
07:43:26 [PhUrl]
hehe
07:44:12 [PhUrl]
trms are just a uuid generated out of a couple of attributes, like duration, sample rate, channels and bits
07:44:54 [PhUrl]
so, in 14 hours, i was able to process 11464 files, that is about 1000 an hour
07:45:01 [PhUrl]
there must be a more efficent method
07:45:25 [PhUrl]
i extended the mp3info program to take a list of files as a parameter
07:45:35 [PhUrl]
and emit the information as a tab separated file
07:45:51 [PhUrl]
still too slow, but we will see
07:47:04 [PhUrl]
have you tried firefox?
07:47:20 [PhUrl]
i have been playing around with unicode and asian fonts
07:47:26 [cikkolata]
bleh
07:47:41 [PhUrl]
i think the chinese symbols are quite pretty and interesting
07:47:49 [cikkolata]
firefox is too slow for me.
07:48:46 [cikkolata]
and it doesn't use my GTK theme properly, and it will not stop stealing focus >_<
07:48:47 [PhUrl]
japanese also has a pictogram symbols as well?
07:49:37 [cikkolata]
japanese uses a combination of chinese characters and two syllbaries
07:50:30 [cikkolata]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_writing_system (I love wikipedia!)
07:50:48 [Kanmu]
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07:52:08 [PhUrl]
really? is uses chinese chars? that is new to me
07:52:21 [PhUrl]
* PhUrl reads the 'pedia
07:53:40 [cikkolata]
yeah, but they have a zillion more ways to pronounce things (this is where DJKC pops up and says "no, usually only $x to $y")
07:56:51 [PhUrl]
i see
07:57:04 [PhUrl]
ok, well i am not good at pronouciation
07:57:34 [PhUrl]
if i go to china or japan, I'll make little flash cards with important pictograms on them and show people what i mean.
07:57:42 [PhUrl]
maybe a pda would be good!
07:57:56 [cikkolata]
heh, japanese isn't hard to pronounce
07:59:23 [PhUrl]
so it is simpler than chinese? I found chinese difficult because of the sensitivity to pronouciation, as an american, it is difficult to do anything coordinated with my mouth. :(
07:59:34 [PhUrl]
check this out, i like this symbol http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/61b6/index.htm
08:00:15 [cikkolata]
I really can't do chinese pronunciation
08:00:23 [PhUrl]
and this one http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/70a4/index.htm
08:00:30 [PhUrl]
is that a man on the left of that?
08:00:47 [PhUrl]
i would like to be able to find the common symbols in these things
08:01:08 [PhUrl]
the svg files are split into vectors of strokes
08:01:24 [cikkolata]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_language#Sounds but you might need to read about the IPA first to understand it
08:01:43 [PhUrl]
so it should be possible to classify them based on the shapes of the components
08:01:52 [cikkolata]
no, that's not a man
08:01:54 [PhUrl]
can you tell me about these symbols?
08:02:17 [PhUrl]
looks like a guy runnigns
08:04:48 [PhUrl]
a bunch of these chars have these three strokes, i guess that means light
08:04:56 [PhUrl]
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/5f71/index.htm\
08:04:56 [cikkolata]
it looks like fire to me
08:05:01 [PhUrl]
ahh
08:05:27 [PhUrl]
ok, that is why i am asking, you must have a large database of these symbols in your mind :)
08:05:42 [cikkolata]
nah
08:05:46 [PhUrl]
do you get some impression of the meaning just from looking at the char?
08:05:47 [cikkolata]
I don't speak japanese that well
08:05:59 [PhUrl]
how many chars can you recognise?
08:06:00 [cikkolata]
with simple words
08:06:38 [cikkolata]
last I checked I knew ~50 really well and could recognise 150-200 but couldn't pronounce them all
08:07:59 [cikkolata]
I'm slowly learning to pronounce words I can recognise though.
08:08:09 [PhUrl]
here is fire, it is similar !http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/3db0/index.htm
08:08:18 [PhUrl]
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/721f/index.htm
08:08:24 [cikkolata]
well, words I don't know but recognise the kanji of
08:08:25 [PhUrl]
yup, your right
08:08:39 [PhUrl]
the little thing on the left is a fire symbol or something
08:09:14 [PhUrl]
it seems to be a simpler for of this http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/3da8/index.htm
08:09:44 [cikkolata]
ah, yeah
08:10:00 [cikkolata]
some of them change when they're in different places
08:10:07 [cikkolata]
grass does too, IIRC
08:11:13 [cikkolata]
and person
08:12:00 [PhUrl]
yeah
08:12:12 [PhUrl]
it is nice. I like these things.
08:12:37 [cikkolata]
they're definitely easier to learn when you know they're not all completely random squiggles.
08:12:38 [PhUrl]
it would be nice to be able to find all the words that contains that fire/stick figure symbold
08:12:57 [cikkolata]
that wouldn't be too hard
08:13:05 [PhUrl]
i wonder if there is a dictionary that breaks the symbols into components
08:13:23 [PhUrl]
i mean does this stick figure get a part in the pronounciation,
08:13:55 [PhUrl]
if you look at the phonetic encoding of the word, can you identify the parts of the picture?
08:15:03 [cikkolata]
there are several things I can think of... kanjidict.com/demo/frame.html has kanji sorted by radical, gjiten lets you search by radical...
08:15:14 [cikkolata]
I couldn't, I don't know if you can for japanese
08:15:36 [cikkolata]
in chinese you apparently have phonetic parts to kanji
08:22:34 [PhUrl]
this is a really good article in the 'pedia
08:22:55 [PhUrl]
i never knew that japan was a land that was invaded so often
08:23:04 [PhUrl]
reminds me of romania,
08:23:33 [PhUrl]
they have be invaded by so many different contries that thier language is a total mischmasch
08:26:48 [neil]
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08:28:29 [PhUrl]
cikkolata: thanks, that kanjidict displays just fine in firefox :)
08:31:12 [PhUrl]
they are reallt similar to the chinese ones
08:31:38 [cikkolata]
they're often the same.
08:34:39 [PhUrl]
http://www.mandarintools.com/chardict.html
08:34:51 [PhUrl]
that is also good, gives you the base and the number of strokes
08:36:08 [PhUrl]
* PhUrl yawns
08:36:18 [PhUrl]
i need to go back to bed and sleep some more...
08:36:54 [ruaok]
neil: I know you, don't I?
08:37:05 [ruaok]
Linnea's earier today, right?
08:37:14 [neil]
Yes, yes you do
08:37:15 [neil]
'allo there
08:37:16 [neil]
:)
08:37:18 [ruaok]
hey.
08:37:29 [neil]
I got info on everyone and figured that one must be you
08:37:31 [neil]
glad to see I'm correct
08:37:32 [ruaok]
what brings ya around to these parts?
08:37:41 [ruaok]
:-)
08:37:47 [neil]
snlo @ pacbell tipped me off
08:37:52 [ruaok]
yeah.
08:37:58 [neil]
I told you I'd have a look at your project, and here I am
08:38:00 [ruaok]
your charter reverse did it for me. :-)
08:38:04 [ruaok]
sweet.
08:38:10 [neil]
I'll have you know I've avoided IRC for 6 years
08:38:12 [neil]
* neil sighs
08:38:16 [ruaok]
:-)
08:38:17 [neil]
I've never used it until now
08:38:18 [neil]
haha
08:38:26 [cikkolata]
charter reverse?
08:39:10 [neil]
if you get info on me, you'll see SLO charter (charter being a local cable company)
08:39:14 [neil]
kind of gives me away ;)
08:39:16 [ruaok]
cikkolata: his reverse dns pings him from SLO -- charter is a US cable company with a strong presence in SLO
08:39:26 [ruaok]
ding.
08:39:33 [neil]
dong?
08:39:36 [cikkolata]
ahh
08:39:42 [ruaok]
* ruaok snickers
08:39:46 [cikkolata]
I understand now
08:40:09 [neil]
So yeah -- figured if I was going to chat with you on Wednesday, I'd better have something to talk about
08:40:22 [ruaok]
twas good to hang out at linnea's today. I need to do that more often.
08:40:22 [cikkolata]
I was imagining someone holding a mirror to some piece of paper
08:40:31 [ruaok]
heh.
08:40:55 [ruaok]
I'm hoping to still see you here on wed -- regardless of the change in SO status...
08:41:02 [neil]
Aw, thanks
08:41:04 [neil]
glad to hear that :)
08:41:10 [ruaok]
always welcome.
08:41:38 [neil]
Splendid! I'll definitely see you there
08:41:43 [ruaok]
cool.
08:41:47 [ruaok]
so have you looked over mb at all?
08:41:50 [neil]
You've got some of my really rare stuff, but not all of it :D
08:41:51 [neil]
yes
08:41:53 [ruaok]
whaddya think?
08:42:05 [neil]
Trying to figure out some of the UI at the moment
08:42:05 [ruaok]
far from it -- so please add more!
08:42:23 [ruaok]
it takes a little getting used to...
08:42:41 [ruaok]
I think we do some thing that should've never been done over HTTP
08:42:45 [neil]
Heh, yes. And I'm sure some careful reading would answer my questions, but it isn't immediately obvious
08:42:47 [neil]
heh
08:42:52 [ruaok]
but then again that is true of many web apps
08:43:15 [ruaok]
well, if ya have questions, you know where to find us. :-)
08:43:43 [neil]
I do have one question
08:43:47 [ruaok]
and if you want a glimpse of what we'll be doing in the future, check out:
08:43:48 [ruaok]
http://test.musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=815
08:43:53 [ruaok]
shoot
08:44:19 [neil]
this guy with you? http://www.indyjt.com/software/?show=ieatbrainz#ieatbrainz
08:44:31 [ruaok]
yes. sorta kinda.
08:44:35 [cikkolata]
will mb eventually be completely rainbow coloured?
08:44:56 [neil]
All right... I came across his app on versiontracker.com, and thought his icon/name was a little too familiar... just wanted to make sure
08:44:59 [ruaok]
cikkolata: heh. at the rate at which we keep adding things, yea. :)
08:45:06 [neil]
heh
08:45:10 [cikkolata]
ooh
08:45:18 [ruaok]
yeah, he has produced the first usable mac tagger.
08:45:49 [ruaok]
but my next gen tagger is going to be much better than existing taggers.
08:45:58 [ruaok]
* ruaok laughs an evil laugh
08:46:01 [neil]
good to hear. I haven't touched his yet
08:46:06 [neil]
I ... fear doing so
08:46:21 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata waves a little flag, I already think it is better
08:46:31 [ruaok]
cikkolata: thanks. :-)
08:46:40 [ruaok]
and that is without guts.
08:46:49 [neil]
nice, nice
08:46:51 [ruaok]
but you've gotten a taste of the new guts.
08:47:12 [ruaok]
I'm being paid to write an artist matching script atm.
08:47:20 [ruaok]
its a freeform text field.
08:47:33 [ruaok]
e.g. 'the smiths dylan joy division'
08:47:54 [ruaok]
and I'm supposed to parse that as 'Smiths, The', 'Dylan, Bob' and 'Joy Division'
08:48:10 [ruaok]
its been the most computer sciency programming I've done in years.
08:48:18 [neil]
at the moment I'm trying to figure out what a "trm" is
08:48:18 [ruaok]
Time to bust out the old alg book.
08:48:21 [neil]
ugh, that sounds painful
08:48:27 [cikkolata]
a pain in the arse?
08:48:30 [ruaok]
TRM = TRM recognized music
08:48:33 [ruaok]
cikkolata: ya.
08:48:53 [ruaok]
its an acoustic fingerprint for a file. derived from the 30 seconds of audio.
08:49:03 [neil]
ah, cool
08:49:05 [ruaok]
of a mp3/wav/ogg/whatever
08:49:14 [neil]
<- noob, as far as this is concerned ;)
08:49:17 [ruaok]
helps in iding the files... but...
08:49:38 [ruaok]
its not the most precise in the world and it likes resources for lunch.
08:49:40 [ruaok]
and dinner
08:49:45 [ruaok]
and breakfast.
08:49:51 [ruaok]
mmm. tasty RAM.
08:49:51 [cikkolata]
and mid-meal snakcs
08:50:03 [neil]
I like RAM.
08:50:06 [ruaok]
* ruaok lucene will rock the world!
08:50:20 [neil]
* neil opened a 666MB TIFF today
08:50:23 [neil]
on a laptop
08:50:24 [ruaok]
I need a 'lucene' shirt the way butthead has a metallica shirt.
08:50:33 [ruaok]
duuude.
08:50:44 [neil]
the filesize -proves- it's evil
08:50:44 [ruaok]
I'm tossing about 650 - 700mb index files.
08:50:46 [ruaok]
that's fun.
08:50:49 [neil]
wee
08:51:01 [cikkolata]
what the hell was it?!
08:51:09 [ruaok]
I think by the time I get the tagger tuned right it will demand 1G of disk space.
08:51:18 [ruaok]
* ruaok guesses a schematic
08:51:30 [neil]
nah, they're much smaller
08:51:37 [ruaok]
or *really* up close and personal porn
08:51:47 [neil]
three 6x6 cm (2.25"x2.25") chromes @ 2400 DPI
08:51:53 [ruaok]
taken at 69 megapixels
08:51:54 [neil]
scanned as one image
08:51:56 [PhUrl]
ruaok: you using the java lucene?
08:52:02 [ruaok]
PhUrl: yea
08:52:05 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata looks impressed
08:52:08 [cikkolata]
that's big.
08:52:37 [PhUrl]
can it index the uuids as well? what is the size of an uuid index? or is it full text?
08:52:38 [neil]
heh.. just wait till I get a dedicated medium format film scanner... then it'll be 4800 DPI .. but I digress
08:52:46 [ruaok]
PhUrl: yes
08:52:56 [ruaok]
damn, thats big.
08:53:04 [PhUrl]
so it can index tables, and treat columns separatly?
08:53:24 [ruaok]
depends on how you build your index.
08:53:33 [PhUrl]
ok,
08:53:45 [ruaok]
it knows only of 'documents' which are broken into key-value pairs.
08:53:58 [ruaok]
so when I build an artist index it usually looks like:
08:54:00 [PhUrl]
ruaok: did you hear what i was saying to cikkolata about my experiments with the uuid vector?
08:54:02 [ruaok]
name => artist name
08:54:10 [ruaok]
sortname => sortname
08:54:14 [ruaok]
mbid => uuid
08:54:24 [ruaok]
yes.
08:54:30 [PhUrl]
ok, i got you,so it is able to create hashes of records
08:54:45 [ruaok]
records, documents... its a fine line.
08:54:56 [ruaok]
works *remarkably* well.
08:54:56 [PhUrl]
what are you feeding it? rdf
08:55:12 [ruaok]
documents. broken into key-value pairs.
08:55:24 [PhUrl]
ok, so you have preprocessed them
08:55:41 [ruaok]
well, I usually derive my data from the database.
08:55:50 [PhUrl]
cool
08:55:56 [ruaok]
query -> tokenize -> index
08:56:01 [PhUrl]
i was looking into lucene.net
08:56:26 [ruaok]
next time I meet Doug Cutting, I'm buying him a beer.
08:56:27 [ruaok]
or 10.
08:56:32 [PhUrl]
i wanted to see if lucene could be/has been compiled with gcj
08:56:37 [ruaok]
He is my new personal hero.
08:56:44 [ruaok]
yup.
08:56:49 [ruaok]
been done. I use it all the time.,
08:57:06 [ruaok]
http://pylucene.osafoundation.org/
08:57:13 [PhUrl]
yeah, cool
08:57:13 [ruaok]
its for python, but using gjc
08:57:20 [PhUrl]
i just googled that
08:57:23 [PhUrl]
very good.
08:57:35 [ruaok]
s/jc/cj/
08:57:35 [lindestinel]
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08:57:49 [PhUrl]
ruaok: why is mp3info so slow?
08:58:02 [ruaok]
because its ACCURATE.
08:58:06 [PhUrl]
i am able to extract about 1000 mp3 infos an hour
08:58:15 [PhUrl]
that is not very efficent
08:58:21 [ruaok]
more accurate than any player i've seen. more accurate that MP3::Info
08:58:42 [PhUrl]
ok, so you are interested in me speeding it up a bit?
08:58:45 [ruaok]
accuracy is more important than speed.
08:58:57 [PhUrl]
i think it could be sped up,
08:59:02 [ruaok]
tell me how you'd do that.
08:59:09 [ruaok]
do you understand what it does?
08:59:18 [PhUrl]
ok, i just want to know if you use that code alot
08:59:28 [PhUrl]
i glance through the c++ code
08:59:36 [PhUrl]
but i was not able to get the cvs version to compile
08:59:50 [PhUrl]
if you help me do that, I will spend some time optimizing
09:00:09 [PhUrl]
i am using the libs from debian
09:00:10 [ruaok]
what os?
09:00:15 [PhUrl]
debian unstable
09:00:27 [ruaok]
just compile the source.
09:00:42 [ruaok]
but... I'm curious. what would you do to optimize it?
09:00:57 [PhUrl]
well, let me see
09:01:26 [ruaok]
* ruaok hopes PhUrl understands the nuances of parsing mp3 frame headers
09:02:06 [PhUrl]
one thing i would do
09:02:13 [PhUrl]
is slurp the entire file
09:02:20 [PhUrl]
into a buffer and not use fseek
09:02:33 [ruaok]
really?
09:02:34 [yalaforge]
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09:02:40 [ruaok]
what if you have a 500mb file?
09:02:46 [ruaok]
yalaforge: time-of-day!
09:02:52 [yalaforge]
hey!
09:02:53 [PhUrl]
i have 1gb of ram
09:02:53 [ruaok]
wie gehts so heute?
09:03:02 [ruaok]
PhUrl: not all users of mp3info do.
09:03:08 [yalaforge]
ganz gut, war eben ne halbe stunde durch den schnee laufen
09:03:09 [cikkolata]
I love that you're using time-of-day
09:03:12 [ruaok]
my code will work on any machine with a few k of ram.
09:03:27 [ruaok]
yalaforge: ist das gut oder schlecht? :-)
09:03:33 [yalaforge]
super :-)
09:03:48 [PhUrl]
und ausserdem, kann ich immer noch das alte Algorithmus benutzen, wenn die Datei zu gross ist.
09:03:49 [ruaok]
ich koennte mich ein bisschen of schnee freuen. (sp?)
09:04:19 [PhUrl]
gestern hat est geschneit in Frankfurt, ganz kurz
09:04:27 [ruaok]
dann hat man gleich zwei versionen von dem code
09:04:29 [yalaforge]
is mp3info using buffered IO or raw syscalls?
09:04:40 [ruaok]
fseek/fread
09:04:42 [ruaok]
should do ok.
09:04:51 [yalaforge]
where's the problem then? should be fast enough
09:06:10 [ruaok]
cikkolata: you're surrounded by german speakers!
09:06:18 [cikkolata]
again!
09:06:59 [cikkolata]
I can guess at some of it, and say it to myself in a really dodgy accent!
09:07:07 [neil]
haha
09:07:11 [yalaforge]
:-)
09:07:15 [ruaok]
* ruaok wonders why germans are drawn to this project.
09:07:18 [yalaforge]
you should hear my english :-)
09:07:28 [neil]
my roommate is a german exchange student.. and he'll often student with two or three more... it's like I'm in the wrong country sometimes ;)
09:07:37 [cikkolata]
I'm still trying to work out how to say "ch"
09:07:37 [ruaok]
it can't be bad -- your written enliglish is excellent.
09:07:38 [neil]
*study
09:07:40 [ruaok]
better than my spelling.
09:07:44 [yalaforge]
MusicBrainz: The world's largest open bureaucracy! Join Today!
09:07:44 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata laughs
09:07:50 [yalaforge]
that must be it
09:08:31 [ruaok]
<speaking in stereotypes>
09:08:34 [cikkolata]
are there any words where using a k instead of ch would change the meaning completely?
09:08:41 [yalaforge]
ruaok: heh, it's true :-)
09:08:41 [PhUrl]
ruaok: let me see what i can do
09:08:41 [cikkolata]
in a bad way.
09:08:46 [ruaok]
I think germans have a compulsive need for order.
09:08:54 [ruaok]
And MusicBrainz is all about compulisive order.
09:08:58 [ruaok]
</speaking in stereotypes>
09:09:14 [ruaok]
cikkolata: hmm
09:09:20 [ruaok]
take dich for example.
09:09:20 [PhUrl]
cikkolata: Fiche / Ficke
09:09:31 [cikkolata]
what do they mean?
09:09:34 [ruaok]
fiche?
09:09:34 [PhUrl]
A Birch tree, Intercourse
09:09:38 [cikkolata]
uh oh...
09:09:40 [ruaok]
fichte
09:09:44 [ruaok]
felht ein t
09:09:47 [PhUrl]
doh
09:09:50 [PhUrl]
right
09:10:03 [PhUrl]
ok, well it was a try
09:10:06 [PhUrl]
:)
09:10:19 [cikkolata]
what about dich?
09:10:32 [cikkolata]
or can I guess?
09:10:33 [ruaok]
chance it to a K and consider it in english. :-)
09:10:37 [cikkolata]
ah.
09:10:37 [ruaok]
change
09:10:44 [cikkolata]
:/
09:10:45 [ruaok]
that got my GF a few times.
09:10:55 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata makes a note to never say dich
09:11:14 [ruaok]
papperlapap!
09:11:22 [ruaok]
* ruaok snickers
09:11:42 [cikkolata]
?
09:11:52 [ruaok]
thats german for 'oh nonsense'
09:12:04 [yalaforge]
I wonder if it is in any dictionary
09:12:11 [cikkolata]
it appears to be an airport too.
09:12:51 [yalaforge]
hey, it's in the "Duden"
09:12:52 [ruaok]
airport? wtf?
09:12:59 [ruaok]
not surprising.
09:13:22 [ruaok]
re: duden
09:13:39 [MBChatLogger]
Ewww! Gross!
09:13:39 [ruaok]
gracenote!
09:13:44 [ruaok]
* ruaok snickers
09:13:49 [yalaforge]
lol
09:14:03 [ruaok]
* ruaok is easily entertained late at night.
09:14:18 [ruaok]
oh, I never went back to read djce's latest changes to the bot.
09:14:24 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge leaves to do some work
09:14:26 [yalaforge]
bye!
09:14:27 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata giggles
09:14:36 [ruaok]
yalaforge: bye!
09:14:43 [yalaforge]
yalaforge has quit
09:14:45 [cikkolata]
I find it amusing that it confused other people
09:14:59 [ruaok]
?
09:15:04 [cikkolata]
the bot
09:15:30 [ruaok]
confused by it responding to our chatting?
09:16:12 [cikkolata]
no
09:16:15 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata looks
09:17:30 [neil]
what'd it respond to?
09:17:33 [MBChatLogger]
Ewww! Gross!
09:17:33 [neil]
gracenote
09:17:35 [neil]
yup
09:17:51 [neil]
heh
09:17:58 [neil]
cddb
09:18:10 [neil]
* neil will stop trying to taunt the bot now
09:18:18 [ruaok]
* ruaok goes to read the code
09:20:04 [cikkolata]
http://lmfao.org.uk/chatbot.txt
09:20:06 [cikkolata]
like that
09:20:10 [neil]
all right... class and an exam tomorrow
09:20:24 [ruaok]
good luck, and good night neil!
09:20:28 [neil]
time for me to do that unconscious thing
09:20:44 [neil]
thanks and goodnight
09:20:52 [neil]
* neil takes a guess
09:21:24 [ruaok]
cikkolata: that is the *exact* conversation I'm rerferring to.
09:21:32 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata is again giggling madly
09:21:44 [PhUrl]
now, 4 bytes can be packed into a long, right? 4 * 8 = 32
09:21:54 [PhUrl]
so if i treat the file as an array of longs...
09:22:03 [MBChatLogger]
windows == pure evil
09:22:03 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger what do you think of windoze?
09:22:57 [Ikarus]
MBChatLogger: not pure, it has even worse pollutants
09:22:57 [MBChatLogger]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'not pure, it has even worse pollutants', Ikarus. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:22:57 [Ikarus]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'not pure, it has even worse pollutants', Ikarus. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:23:12 [MBChatLogger]
smiles
09:23:12 [ruaok]
* ruaok kisses MBChatLogger
09:23:21 [Ikarus]
:P
09:23:23 [cikkolata]
aww
09:23:29 [cikkolata]
he should blush too.
09:23:55 [PhUrl]
MBChatLogger: why is there air?
09:23:55 [MBChatLogger]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'why is there air'
09:23:55 [PhUrl]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'why is there air'
09:24:33 [MBChatLogger]
25284
09:24:33 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger pid
09:26:17 [MBChatLogger]
smiles and blushes
09:26:17 [ruaok]
* ruaok kisses MBChatLogger
09:26:27 [cikkolata]
aww! :D
09:26:43 [ruaok]
djce is one of my favorite people on this planet.
09:26:58 [ruaok]
ok, I've had enough of your shit, MBChatLogger!
09:27:02 [MBChatLogger]
cries and hides
09:27:02 [ruaok]
* ruaok kicks MBChatLogger
09:27:18 [cikkolata]
because of the chatbot things?
09:27:28 [ruaok]
* ruaok is just playing
09:27:49 [cikkolata]
I mean djce being one of your favourite people
09:28:11 [ruaok]
ah. yes. but not limited to that.
09:28:31 [ruaok]
his practicality with being able to reload the chatlogger remotely is just cool
09:28:46 [ruaok]
and this type of thinking is very djce
09:28:50 [ruaok]
* ruaok appreciates that
09:29:01 [cikkolata]
rather than restarting it?
09:29:11 [ruaok]
yea.
09:29:27 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata blinks
09:29:36 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata would do that too
09:32:55 [PhUrl]
ruaok: where you from?
09:33:00 [ruaok]
HH
09:33:09 [PhUrl]
ok
09:33:12 [ruaok]
du?
09:33:12 [cikkolata]
HH?
09:33:19 [PhUrl]
hansa stadt hamburg
09:33:23 [cikkolata]
ah
09:33:27 [PhUrl]
i am working on getting a contract in HB
09:33:28 [ruaok]
Hansestadt Hamburg
09:33:43 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger: time
09:33:43 [MBChatLogger]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'time', ruaok. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:33:43 [ruaok]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'time', ruaok. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:33:49 [PhUrl]
oops, my spelling is bad
09:33:54 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger time
09:34:27 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger time
09:34:39 [ruaok]
cheap korean fucking chatlogger
09:34:53 [cikkolata]
...korean?
09:35:11 [ruaok]
sorry.
09:35:41 [ruaok]
cheao <insert lesser ehtnicity of choice here> fucking chatlogger
09:35:51 [cikkolata]
oh, it was just random
09:36:20 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger time
09:36:24 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger: time
09:36:24 [MBChatLogger]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'time', ruaok. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:36:24 [ruaok]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'time', ruaok. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
09:36:31 [ruaok]
oh
09:36:53 [ruaok]
MBChatLogger time
09:37:01 [ruaok]
stupid wanker
09:37:04 [ruaok]
* ruaok is too tired.
09:43:17 [ruaok]
* ruaok slinks off to bed
09:43:22 [ruaok]
nite all!
09:43:27 [ruaok]
* ruaok is away: snoooooooooze
10:15:21 [slander]
slander has quit
10:27:12 [PhUrl]
ok
10:27:21 [PhUrl]
i have a new version of the mp3 reader.
10:27:24 [PhUrl]
timing it right now.
10:30:48 [PhUrl]
so, it is doing about 100 a minute
10:31:18 [PhUrl]
but had to skip some files, let be filter them
10:32:54 [slander]
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10:35:17 [PhUrl]
it is still kinda slow....
10:35:27 [PhUrl]
about 20 a minute
10:37:32 [Kanmu]
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10:41:23 [PhUrl]
in 10 minutes processed 409 sucessfully
10:42:24 [PhUrl]
this is estimated at 2x the speed of the original
10:42:30 [PhUrl]
ruaok:
10:44:55 [PhUrl]
definitly much faster
10:54:30 [lindestinel]
lindestinel has quit
10:55:04 [PhUrl]
any list admins awake?
10:56:10 [cikkolata]
doubt it, why?
11:09:14 [Knio]
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11:09:23 [Knio]
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11:14:59 [PhUrl]
http://rdfintrospector.blogspot.com/2005/01/musicbrainz-prototype-for-higher.html
11:15:07 [PhUrl]
there is my write up
11:34:21 [Necronom_]
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PhUrl has quit
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13:08:11 [PhUrl]
cikkolata: check this out http://trc.ucdavis.edu/msjacob/chn4/chn4_radicals.htm Concept Map contrasting two similar radicals
13:28:12 [PhUrl]
this is even better http://zhongwen.com/
13:28:44 [cikkolata]
I've seen zhongwen before
13:29:33 [cikkolata]
but that's for chinese, when I generally want japanese :)
14:44:35 [straydog1980]
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14:45:19 [DJKC]
cikkolata: :P "zillion more ways to pronounce things" sounds about right to me
14:47:53 [somnolent]
somnolent is now known as somniloquy
14:48:09 [straydog1980]
any aphex twin fans in here? i need a title for a song I have
14:51:20 [cikkolata]
wow, you agreed!
14:54:37 [DJKC]
PhUrl: [02:23 01/25] <PhUrl> they have be invaded by so many different contries that thier language is a total mischmasch <---- where'd you get that idea from? They've never really been invaded much. The mongols were the last to try and were unsuccesfull. Prior to that there really weren't any invasions going back into BC times... They just tend to steal concepts, including linguistic ones
14:55:01 [cikkolata]
I figured he meant romania
14:56:52 [DJKC]
[02:22 01/25] <PhUrl> i never knew that japan was a land that was invaded so often <--- there was that prior to it though
14:57:04 [cikkolata]
oh, yeah
14:57:19 [cikkolata]
wasn't it more them invaded everywhere else?
14:57:23 [cikkolata]
invading.
14:57:27 [DJKC]
Really the only actual invasion I can recall is the mongol one. And arguably the US, twice, but they usually don't call that an invasion
14:57:39 [DJKC]
cikkolata: not everywhere, just everywhere in east and SE asia
14:57:47 [cikkolata]
close enough :p
14:59:13 [DJKC]
it leads to interesting stuff, like a lot of Japanese speakers in Taiwan, that weird mixture of resentment and liking from South Korea, and the objection to Japanese troups leaving Japan ever for any reason
14:59:45 [DJKC]
I remember during the first Gulf War they sent a mine sweeping unit to help the US and pretty much every country in that area lodged formal objections ^^;
15:07:56 [straydog1980]
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16:14:09 [yalaforge]
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16:21:12 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge needs a few votes
16:21:15 [yalaforge]
http://www.musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2199616
16:21:41 [yalaforge]
it seems the last two users who voted yes were just created for this purpose
16:23:05 [somniloquy]
Does indeed look that way.
16:23:21 [yalaforge]
yup :-(
16:23:30 [Muti_]
I have that CD also, and it's definitely MTV Unplugged
16:23:33 [Muti_]
Muti_ is now known as Muti
16:23:49 [yalaforge]
Muti: a note would be appreciated
16:24:10 [yalaforge]
great, thanks for those votes :-)
16:24:36 [Muti]
I'm searching for a CD cover image
16:25:13 [yalaforge]
the cover image doesn't show it. the title is on the side (no idea how it's called in english)
16:26:00 [Muti]
well, the cover has "Alanis Morissette MTV Unplugged" all over it. =)
16:26:05 [Muti]
http://www.coveralia.com/audio/a/Alanis_Morissette-MTV_Unplugged-Frontal.jpg
16:26:16 [yalaforge]
but not easily readable, IMHO :-)
16:26:30 [Muti]
true
16:26:49 [Muti]
but it definitely doesn't have the words "Alanis Unplugged" next to each other
16:26:58 [yalaforge]
right
16:28:42 [Muti]
http://www.galeon.com/allmusic/caratulas/a/Alanis_Morissette_-_MTV_Unplugged_-_back.jpg
16:29:00 [Muti]
that has the side also
16:29:00 [yalaforge]
ahh, that's it
16:47:48 [PhUrl]
DJKC: i meant romanina
16:48:08 [PhUrl]
nothing against japan, peace
17:04:34 [spooge]
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17:29:11 [danbri]
guys, what would it take to get Leigh's draft RDF schema, http://www.ldodds.com/blog/archives/000130.html installed on musicbrainz.org?
17:30:09 [danbri]
ie. http://www.ldodds.com/projects/musicbrainz/schema/index.rdf at http://musicbrainz.org/mm/mm-2.1# ...?
17:30:21 [danbri]
<danbri> guys, what would it take to get Leigh's draft RDF schema, http://www.ldodds.com/blog/archives/000130.html installed on musicbrainz.org?
17:30:22 [danbri]
<danbri> ie. http://www.ldodds.com/projects/musicbrainz/schema/index.rdf at http://musicbrainz.org/mm/mm-2.1# ...?
17:30:24 [danbri]
oops :)
17:33:07 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge reads the schema again
17:33:33 [yalaforge]
there were a few minor errors, IIRC
17:38:00 [danbri]
could you mail leigh cc: me and a MB list or www-archive@w3.org if you remember them? :)
17:38:37 [yalaforge]
err, the problem is rather with the musicbrainz web service which is inconsistent in some parts
17:38:52 [yalaforge]
mm:trackNum shouldn't be used, for example
17:44:07 [danbri]
ah ok...
17:44:21 [yalaforge]
the cdindexList is also missing
17:44:29 [yalaforge]
the rest looked good, IIRC
17:45:04 [danbri]
* danbri passes that on, cheers
17:45:10 [yalaforge]
np
17:49:59 [yalaforge]
danbri: err, sorry. cdindexList isn't missing. it's domain is wrong, however
17:50:29 [danbri]
* danbri nods, pasts to ldodds (who is away but hopefully logging...)
17:50:37 [danbri]
s/pasts/pastes/
17:50:37 [yalaforge]
currently, it's mm:Artist but it should be a property of mm:Album
17:53:52 [yalaforge]
danbri: recently, we added release dates and amazon shop ids. these are missing from the schema
17:54:48 [yalaforge]
use 'wget http://www.musicbrainz.org/mm-2.1/album/02232360-337e-4a3f-ad20-6cdd4c34288c/4' to see it all in action
17:55:58 [danbri]
nifty
17:56:13 [danbri]
are there any 'extended relations' or whatver the new arbitrary relationship thing is called?
17:56:16 [danbri]
they'd go well into rdf
17:56:29 [danbri]
'isCoverOf', 'playsWithSometimes' etc
17:56:34 [yalaforge]
not yet, AR is still under construction
17:56:42 [danbri]
* danbri looks fwd to it
17:56:44 [yalaforge]
unfortunately, not everything fits well:
17:56:59 [yalaforge]
AR allows start and end dates for some relationships
17:57:04 [danbri]
that's cool
17:57:08 [yalaforge]
that's a bit more verbose to model in RDF
17:57:19 [danbri]
rdf doesn't have a rep for that yet... but great to have that data
17:57:24 [danbri]
more to life than rdf ;)
17:57:29 [yalaforge]
it's all ruaok's work
17:57:37 [danbri]
good testbed for doing temporal stuff around rdf too
17:57:49 [yalaforge]
yup
18:09:36 [duerra_]
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18:09:48 [duerra_]
Is this project still active?
18:10:06 [yalaforge]
sure
18:10:22 [duerra_]
There's not been any news on the site for many many months :-/
18:10:39 [yalaforge]
see http://blog.musicbrainz.org/
18:10:52 [duerra_]
*nod*
18:11:51 [duerra_]
very nice
18:53:28 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge is away: tv
19:00:12 [duerra_]
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19:05:43 [djce]
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19:05:49 [djce]
ruaok: hey
19:06:01 [djce]
d'oh... not here.
19:06:06 [ruaok]
splendid time of day!
19:06:16 [djce]
or maybe he is :-)
19:06:33 [djce]
so, what do you want to do about our favourite non-scalable system-killing daemon process?
19:06:43 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata snickers
19:07:02 [ruaok]
not sure -- do you have any clue what causes it?
19:07:19 [djce]
All the things we've already agreed cause it, surely?
19:07:26 [djce]
not enough ram, too many lookups,
19:07:28 [djce]
etc. etc.
19:07:42 [ruaok]
this is all TRM related?
19:07:47 [djce]
Yup.
19:07:49 [ruaok]
* ruaok is just waking up and not up to speed yet.
19:07:51 [djce]
Not to mention http://www.musicbrainz.org/usage/trm/usage.png of course.
19:07:59 [djce]
It hit its 2Gb limit during saturday.
19:08:26 [ruaok]
* ruaok shudders
19:08:38 [ruaok]
ahhhh.
19:08:47 [ruaok]
now it all makes sense.
19:08:59 [djce]
Almost 2 weeks earlier than I expected... but nevertheless, it was inevitable.
19:09:09 [g0|zzz]
hi guys.. what with the time-of-day thing? :)
19:09:15 [g0|zzz]
g0|zzz is now known as g0llum
19:09:23 [ruaok]
especially with the spike in recent tagger downloads -- its not surprising.
19:09:44 [ruaok]
g0llum: saying good morning is invariably wrong for someone.
19:09:50 [g0llum]
:)
19:09:56 [g0llum]
hehe, time-of-day then
19:10:08 [ruaok]
time-of-day to you too!
19:10:17 [cikkolata]
time-of-day works any time of the day!
19:10:22 [cikkolata]
I love that you're using it :D
19:10:35 [djce]
strftime("%p") to you all
19:10:41 [ruaok]
LOL
19:10:42 [g0llum]
missed the bit about the things you discussed (what causes the server to hickup) could you re-iterate that for poor g0llum
19:10:45 [cikkolata]
geek! :p
19:10:48 [g0llum]
:D
19:10:57 [ruaok]
g0llum: too many TRM lookups.
19:11:00 [djce]
Yeah, I had to look it up. I'm not THAT sad.
19:11:16 [djce]
unless you count looking it up as being sad too :-)
19:11:17 [DJKC]
I simply say goodmorning, regardless of the time of day where I and the people I'm speaking with are.
19:11:21 [DJKC]
It's morning somewhere, after all
19:11:35 [ruaok]
djce: we'll we're all about band-aids right now.
19:11:48 [ruaok]
until we can get another machine into the colo, we can't do much.
19:11:55 [g0llum]
DJKC: thats happens to me (in RL) sometimes, but i get weird looks for that can tell you :)
19:12:03 [ruaok]
have you run the numbers what a cull could do for us?
19:12:15 [djce]
Depends how far you cull, as always.
19:12:21 [djce]
I haven't done any numbers ye.t
19:12:29 [cikkolata]
aww
19:12:30 [cikkolata]
...
19:12:32 [cikkolata]
arrrrgh
19:12:47 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata hates lag
19:12:55 [ruaok]
is it time for us to consider changing the numbers?
19:13:01 [djce]
Which numbers?
19:13:09 [ruaok]
keep-threshold
19:13:16 [djce]
I just dropped the MaxSigservers down to 1
19:13:17 [djce]
from 5
19:13:22 [DJKC]
g0llum: that's why I generally use another languge for saying it. greeting people with moin or oha gets less funny looks than "Good Morning" when used at 7pm for some reason
19:13:28 [djce]
What is keep-threshold?
19:13:41 [ruaok]
the threshold at which we keep/toss TRMs
19:13:41 [cikkolata]
I'd never heard moin until I came here
19:13:52 [g0llum]
¿ :)
19:13:53 [djce]
ruaok: I've never heard of it.
19:14:10 [ruaok]
* ruaok needs to wake up SOOON
19:14:11 [DJKC]
cikkolata: I used to play on a german tnet server. Picked up the habit of greeting with it from there, despite not really speaking any german
19:14:23 [djce]
Unless you mean, the minimum number of lookups required for us to keep it. But I've never called it that before.
19:14:28 [cikkolata]
you explained that once
19:15:54 [djce]
* djce is off to count TRMs
19:16:14 [ruaok]
* ruaok sits tight and wakes up
19:16:41 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata ... uh, doesn't do anything productive
19:17:03 [ruaok]
DUH. I'm sooo dense.
19:17:14 [ruaok]
The donations have been rolling in. Of course the sigserver is BUSY.
19:18:44 [djce]
:-)
19:18:47 [cikkolata]
if you're dense, the rest of the world has no hope, really :p
19:20:39 [djce]
There are approx 3630398 TRMs in the sigserver
19:20:59 [djce]
and approx 3281290 rows in "trm".
19:21:13 [djce]
so it seems most TRMs are in the MB database, which is a start.
19:23:17 [djce]
Unfortunately counting used TRMs is just taking forever....
19:23:26 [djce]
* djce is tempted to kill the sigserver now
19:23:47 [djce]
* djce might even restart it again, if you all behave
19:24:02 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 5 : 1517642 TRMs
19:24:32 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 3 : 1750513 TRMs
19:24:46 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 2 : 1898109 TRMs
19:24:57 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 1 : 2078575 TRMs
19:25:25 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 2 : 1625165 TRMs
19:26:45 [djce]
last time we pruned down to 1989632. That was 34 days ago.
19:27:17 [djce]
So if we go for keeping anything with lookupcount >= 1, we'll have bought ourselves less than 34 days.
19:27:42 [djce]
* djce is away: chores...back later
19:28:27 [ruaok]
* ruaok ponders
19:33:04 [Juke]
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19:33:11 [Juke]
hi
19:33:15 [cikkolata]
hi
19:33:30 [Juke]
is there a gtk based client for musicbrainz ?
19:33:40 [cikkolata]
picard, but it's not complete
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19:45:11 [Juke]
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20:01:55 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge is back (gone 01:08:28)
20:02:18 [ruaok]
yalaforge: moin!
20:02:24 [yalaforge]
n'abend!
20:02:39 [cikkolata]
n'?
20:02:40 [ruaok]
so, danbri was just pinging me on the rdf spec again.
20:02:57 [ruaok]
which I so shamefully dropped last year.
20:02:57 [yalaforge]
ruaok: yup.
20:03:11 [yalaforge]
cikkolata: n' is short for 'guten'
20:03:12 [ruaok]
looks like you two already had a conversation about this.
20:03:17 [cikkolata]
ahh
20:03:31 [yalaforge]
yes, there were a few things that have to be added but otherwise it looked good
20:03:33 [ruaok]
yalaforge: but that is not really applicable in many contexts.
20:03:45 [yalaforge]
yup
20:03:53 [ruaok]
is there any chance I can convince you to take that on before you go back to school?>
20:04:06 [ruaok]
I feel really bad for having left it for so long.
20:04:07 [yalaforge]
a new web service you mean?
20:04:11 [ruaok]
oh no.
20:04:24 [yalaforge]
just looking it through?
20:04:28 [ruaok]
just: get back to leigh, have him touch it uyp.
20:04:49 [yalaforge]
sure, no problem
20:04:54 [ruaok]
then integrate his spec into our site and arrange to have our web service stubs returns some meaningful info.
20:05:18 [yalaforge]
return meaningful info?
20:05:18 [ruaok]
a few hours of work, I think. Nothing totally drastic.
20:05:45 [ruaok]
all the RDF URI's we use -- they return 404 (or the stub 404 currently)
20:05:54 [yalaforge]
ah
20:05:56 [ruaok]
we should have it return something....
20:05:59 [ruaok]
a ref to the spec?
20:06:10 [yalaforge]
sure, why not
20:06:19 [ruaok]
awesome -- thanks!
20:06:23 [yalaforge]
I'll collect a list of URIs
20:06:33 [ruaok]
oh, can you please add in the AR things I did?
20:06:45 [ruaok]
namely we should document that the AR namespace will change CONSTANTLY.
20:07:01 [yalaforge]
I'll talk to leigh on that. my rdf schema knowledge could be better. much better
20:07:25 [ruaok]
it would be nice if we could automatically generate RDF schema bits for the AR based on whats in the DB.
20:07:29 [ruaok]
(danbri's suggestion)
20:07:41 [ruaok]
but I am less concerned about that.
20:07:53 [ruaok]
I'd be fine with saying that AR is volatile (at least for now).
20:08:15 [yalaforge]
I'll see what I can do about it but let's first get the current version done. AR can be added later
20:08:41 [yalaforge]
* yalaforge checks out the AR branch ...
20:08:43 [ruaok]
sure.
20:08:54 [ruaok]
you think we can manage an AR placeholder for the time being?
20:09:36 [yalaforge]
hm, like the suggestion I made on the AR list?
20:09:48 [yalaforge]
use it as an intermediate solution?
20:10:18 [ruaok]
er. remind me? what was your suggestion?
20:10:35 [ruaok]
* ruaok feels soooooo dense today
20:10:53 [yalaforge]
I'll priv you the relevant parts, wait a minute ...
20:11:01 [ruaok]
k
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21:48:48 [Knio]
arrrgh. is there some alternative to itunes?
21:53:35 [_thom_]
heh. on Mac OS X, or elsewhere?
21:53:41 [_thom_]
what's wrong with your iTunes experience?
21:54:04 [Knio]
for updating my ipod
21:54:19 [_thom_]
Hrm, I don't think so, unfortunately. At least I'm not aware of one.
21:54:39 [_thom_]
but maybe I can help you with the issue you're having..?
21:54:49 [Knio]
itunes is completely stupid. i'm going to have to do something drastic like nuking itunes's library and reformatting my ipod :/
21:55:27 [_thom_]
..."For example," <--
21:55:29 [Knio]
well..
21:56:09 [Knio]
for example, it refers to files by filename only, so when I get a better version of a song, it thinks it's the same one and won't update
21:56:37 [_thom_]
Yeah. I wish they'd incorporate some kind of MB tagging, personally ;)
21:56:46 [_thom_]
are you ON a Mac, or a PC?
21:56:49 [Knio]
PC
21:57:12 [_thom_]
okay. So does the latest MB tagger have the ability to scan already-tagged mp3 files, and find duplicate songs?
21:57:25 [Knio]
nope
21:57:56 [_thom_]
I'm thinking that since iTunes isn't capable of doing this, there should be some app to handle this kind of dupe-finding by iterating over a folder, and keeping a simple DB based on what it finds
21:58:19 [_thom_]
personally I've had such a hard time with organizing, esp. because I've moved my iTuned music library before, like to an external drive
21:58:22 [Knio]
itunes is able to find duplicate songs
21:58:27 [Knio]
but
21:58:33 [_thom_]
and I cleaned up my collection AFTER loading my iPod, using iEatbrainz
21:58:39 [_thom_]
that functionality sucks
21:59:01 [_thom_]
it can't even tell that a track from a live album is different than the same track from a studio album, for example
21:59:02 [Knio]
it's not acctualy useful, since theres no "remove all duplicates from library" or some such
21:59:09 [Knio]
yeah
21:59:13 [_thom_]
I wouldn't trust it anyway even if you could
22:00:26 [Knio]
is enyone else getting errors with the mbtagger getting all the correct info, but then saving files with 0 for all the tracknums?
22:03:11 [g0llum]
jep, that happens... there's no solution known for that problem else than adding them again and re-identify
22:03:20 [g0llum]
usually that resolves the problem (its random)
22:03:31 [Knio]
yeah, when I tag them again it fixes
22:06:11 [Knio]
my ipod just became full, so I have to delete all my duplicates (I have a lot..) and then i'll probably nuke itunes, since it will take _forever_ to manually update everything :/
22:07:03 [g0llum]
i dont like it either, it's too strict. an in switzerland, the store is not yet integrated anyway
22:07:36 [_thom_]
the biggest problem I had was, I think I deleted or lost some of my music, which is only on the ipod now
22:07:51 [_thom_]
so I can't just re-wipe and start again, I have to be super-careful
22:08:53 [Knio]
yeah :/
22:09:02 [Muti]
there is an alternative to iTunes
22:09:12 [Muti]
http://www.ephpod.com/
22:09:52 [Knio]
WMP10 jumps up and tries to eat my ipod whenever I plug it in, I haven't trusted it to try anything though
22:15:44 [g0llum]
ruaok: hmm, is this a glitch in the matrix? 100:1 yes votes http://www.musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2186816
22:17:53 [cikkolata]
no
22:18:39 [cikkolata]
when you become an automod you get 100 yes votes
22:18:42 [djce]
Yes, it's a glitch in that it happens "when they change something" :-)
22:18:54 [djce]
but it's a deliberate hack.
22:21:52 [djce]
Very silly: http://www.whenironsattack.com/
22:22:32 [djce]
* djce is back (gone 02:54:49)
22:23:00 [g0llum]
hehe
22:23:55 [g0llum]
i've been to the page before, but i was wondering if the front page is all or i'm too stupid to find an <enter> link or something
22:24:03 [cikkolata]
I was wondering that
22:25:43 [g0llum]
hmm, i'm through voting on all open mods. what doidonow :)
22:25:43 [djce]
No idea, I didn't look. I just liked the graphic.
22:25:53 [g0llum]
yeah, it's a cool idea
22:27:50 [djce]
Hmm.... only 759988 TRMs with lookupcount >= 20. You know, I'm REALLY tempted.
22:28:03 [djce]
And I can't think of a good reason not to right now.
22:29:05 [djce]
(Then again I'm also quite tempted to just install a "null" TRM service... one that always returns a new, unique UUID. And then silently discard all TRM submissions).
22:29:15 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata snickers
22:29:18 [djce]
vroom, vroom.
22:29:34 [djce]
Seriously. It'd be backwards compatible and everything. And very scalable.
22:30:09 [g0llum]
what's snickering?
22:30:16 [cikkolata]
evil giggling
22:31:05 [g0llum]
ah, ok.. i'm surprised dict.leo.org has no entry for that
22:31:11 [cikkolata]
dictionary.com says A snide, slightly stifled laugh
22:31:33 [g0llum]
aww, it has.. i used the snicker+s, to snicker ;)
22:31:59 [g0llum]
...would have been more successful
22:32:12 [djce]
ruaok: Are you awake yet? :-)
22:32:40 [g0llum]
interesting, it's translated as wiehern=thats the awful sound horses make .)
22:32:56 [cikkolata]
err...
22:32:57 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata laughs
22:33:26 [g0llum]
blubb :>
22:35:36 [Knio]
hrm
22:36:17 [Knio]
when I identify a song, and it automagicly goes into 'saved', is that just because it has a TRM id3 tag?
22:36:44 [g0llum]
jep
22:37:48 [Knio]
I would recommend that when it sees a TRM tag, it should just skip the TRM genreation + lookup, and then do a normal lookup, because lots of times the metadata has changed
22:39:51 [g0llum]
the old tagger will not be updated anymore. there's a new one in the works (look for picard on the mb server/wiki)
22:39:57 [Knio]
ah
22:40:52 [canidae]
Knio: tagger doesn't relookup already identified songs... it's to lay off some pressure from the server
22:41:19 [canidae]
or rather, tunepimp doesn't relookup files for changes...
22:44:19 [ruaok]
djce: yes, awake now that I'm back from my ride.
22:44:41 [ruaok]
its going to rain again, so I figgered I'd take care of excercise and waking up in one swoop.
22:47:37 [DJKC]
Knio: mlipod for winamp is a decent alternative
22:47:43 [DJKC]
if you don't need unicode
22:49:04 [ruaok]
djce: wrt to pruning...
22:49:28 [djce]
da
22:49:34 [ruaok]
I think shooting to prune once every 30 days seems like a pretty decent approach.
22:49:50 [ruaok]
last time we nuked everything with a lookupcount of 1, right?
22:50:00 [djce]
You don't like my "null sigserver" hack? - it's a semi-serious suggestion.
22:50:55 [ruaok]
er, as in disabling TRM altogether?
22:51:05 [djce]
According to the page I wrote at the time (http://musicbrainz.org/news/20041222-1.html) we kept lookupcount >= 1
22:51:20 [djce]
Pretty much. Replacing it with a random number generator, effectively.
22:51:47 [ruaok]
as much as I am tempted, lets not.
22:51:53 [djce]
not, YET.
22:51:57 [djce]
The time will come.
22:53:32 [DJKC]
cikkolata: heh, I never noticed until looking at your import mod that one of the Konishi Yasuharu remixes of them on PRMX has a random ; in the middle of the title
22:53:39 [djce]
So... 30 days. How many TRMs do we need to aim to keep then?
22:53:41 [djce]
* djce ponders
22:54:08 [cikkolata]
heh
22:55:27 [ruaok]
how many are we left with if we prune lookupcount 1 and 0 ?
22:56:27 [djce]
* djce reads backscroll ... it's up there somewhere
22:56:39 [djce]
where lookupcount >= 2 : 1625165 TRMs
22:57:38 [ruaok]
sounds good to me.
22:57:48 [djce]
That means throwing away more than 50%, which is about right for 30 days.
22:58:15 [djce]
Or to put it another way, if we did that, sometime from 21 days onwards we can expect to have to cull agian.
22:58:42 [ruaok]
hopefully more.
22:58:48 [ruaok]
unless we have another spike
22:58:57 [djce]
Yeah, hopefully. It's an inexact science.
22:59:06 [djce]
* djce prepares to prune...
22:59:45 [djce]
So far we've never actually deleted the corresponding rows from the trm* tables. Maybe this time we should.
23:00:30 [djce]
It's not as important, but it should be done at some point.
23:00:53 [ruaok]
Cool we just got a $3000k donation... from... MusicBrainz!
23:00:54 [ruaok]
http://test.metabrainz.org/finances/donations.html
23:00:56 [ruaok]
hehehe
23:02:02 [djce]
Oohh, we're very low on bender's disk space too.
23:02:05 [djce]
that won't help.
23:02:11 [ruaok]
crap.
23:02:16 [ruaok]
anything we can throw away?
23:03:13 [djce]
TRMs.
23:03:16 [djce]
:-)
23:03:21 [djce]
Not really, no.
23:03:37 [djce]
But see my comment above about the trm* tables.
23:08:34 [djce]
* djce whistles a merry pruning song
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23:15:42 [djce]
Read: 3633572 Wrote: 1898435
23:16:16 [ruaok]
cool
23:16:43 [djce]
down to 80% disk use again...
23:17:16 [djce]
Read 1888091 total signatures from all indexes
23:18:48 [djce]
TRMs are up again...
23:18:56 [ruaok]
super. thanks mucho!
23:19:36 [djce]
Damn, that's getting easier each time.
23:19:42 [djce]
Now to write up a quick news article...
23:20:41 [ruaok]
practice makes perfect...
23:34:08 [cikkolata]
* cikkolata sighs
23:34:15 [cikkolata]
I need to learn how to be not nice.
23:34:24 [dupuy]
djce, did you prune the orphaned TRMs from the MB DB this time?
23:34:49 [djce]
No, but I did keep the data aside so I can do that (accurately) later if I get round to it.
23:35:11 [djce]
I've got a spare table knocking around containing IDs to delete from "trm".
23:35:35 [djce]
mb=> select count(*) from trms_to_throw;
23:35:35 [djce]
count
23:35:35 [djce]
---------
23:35:35 [djce]
1257136
23:35:35 [djce]
(1 row)
23:36:24 [djce]
(hmmm... let's ditch the old discid and toc tables shall we. I don't think we need to keep /them/ any more).
23:36:28 [dupuy]
that includes trms that were purged from the TRM server in the earlier purges, too, right?
23:37:15 [djce]
Yes it does. Basically I just created two mutually exclusive datasets:
23:37:20 [rjmunro]
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23:37:25 [djce]
(i) TRMs for the sigserver to keep
23:37:37 [djce]
(ii) TRMs to delete from the postgres database.
23:37:58 [djce]
where (i) union (ii) was the entire contents of the TRM table.
23:38:07 [dupuy]
in the sigserver, right?
23:38:54 [dupuy]
or the entire contents of the MB TRM table?
23:39:04 [djce]
the postgres table.
23:39:45 [djce]
So every TRM which was in the SQL database just before the cull is either (a) still in the sigserver data files, or (ii) on my "to delete" list.
23:40:28 [dupuy]
right, gotcha on that
23:41:39 [dupuy]
well, i'd vote for tossing the orphans - wish it would reduce the TRM conflicts, but sadly the conflicting ones are the least likely to be purged
23:42:04 [djce]
I'm just preparing the ground for that now, to see how quick and easy it might be to do...
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23:58:22 [djce]
* djce waves bye-bye to HE
23:58:29 [djce]
oh... back already.wow
23:58:36 [ruaok]
* ruaok snickers