IRC log of musicbrainz on 2011-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:02:49 [kepstin]
what do you call a person who plays the viola. A Violist?
00:03:00 [derwin]
violent
00:03:31 [kepstin]
hmm. wikipedia says violist, yeah.
00:10:55 [Leftmost]
Don't suppose anyone knows how to find a list of release dates for Columbia Records, circa 1980s.
00:11:40 [derwin]
public library... rolling stone or etc?
00:12:10 [derwin]
beyond that, buying trades on ebay or something?
00:12:15 [derwin]
dunno.
00:12:30 [bitmap]
try searching the catalog numbers on google books
00:12:31 [Leftmost]
Well, I have a CD here which is a reissue of a 1965 vinyl album, done probably 1985 or 1989. I don't know which, though.
00:12:39 [bitmap]
usually works for me
00:13:29 [Leftmost]
Ahh, thanks bitmap.
00:15:19 [reosarevok]
Grr
00:15:48 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok would think "I'm an artist, I worked hard on my stuff, I will upload it to a proper site" would be a more common thought
00:16:12 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok downloads his third megaupload-hosted album of the day
00:16:20 [derwin]
that's.. kinda sad.
00:16:41 [derwin]
but I know some mashcore guys whatever who are hosting on filesharing services...
00:17:08 [reosarevok]
Well
00:17:25 [Leftmost]
reosarevok, an artist uploaded it to megaupload?
00:17:31 [reosarevok]
Yes
00:17:36 [reosarevok]
Three different ones
00:17:45 [reosarevok]
I'd understand "bandcamp + a megaupload backup in case the free downloads run off"
00:17:50 [reosarevok]
But just megaupload?
00:17:50 [reosarevok]
Sad
00:19:09 [derwin]
they probably getting more famous on corebay than I am
00:19:13 [derwin]
jussayin
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01:12:58 [VxJasonxV]
Would anyone else agree that the "Relate to..." mini popover should use the advanced search syntax?
01:14:51 [nikki]
the problem with that is that it breaks if you do crazy things like use exclamation marks or question marks
01:14:57 [nikki]
and people wouldn't expect that :/
01:15:54 [VxJasonxV]
point
01:16:07 [VxJasonxV]
paging through commonly named tracks SUCKS
01:16:24 [nikki]
* nikki personally thinks we should figure out how to just have one search field
01:16:50 [VxJasonxV]
one global search syntax?
01:16:56 [nikki]
yeah
01:17:10 [VxJasonxV]
absolutely
01:17:34 [nikki]
if you mismatch your quotes in google, it doesn't go "OMG WTF *die*", it just adds another invisible quote to the end of the string (at least, that's what the results I got suggested it was doing)
01:19:04 [nikki]
ah, seems to have changed since I last tried
01:19:08 [nikki]
but still
01:19:28 [VxJasonxV]
I would love to just start typing fractions of titles and artist names and have it show me what I'm looking for.
01:19:34 [VxJasonxV]
ala. Quicksilver and Alfred and launchers
01:19:42 [VxJasonxV]
then there's also negation and what not.
01:19:47 [nikki]
it does that already...
01:19:50 [nikki]
(the fractions bit)
01:20:23 [VxJasonxV]
does it? even if I were to mix titles and artists?
01:20:39 [nikki]
no, because it's only a title search right now
01:20:44 [VxJasonxV]
specifically in the "relate to..." pop-over
01:20:48 [VxJasonxV]
right, that's my point
01:21:16 [nikki]
(we're lucky we even have the indexed search there at all, tbh, people were like "no way, it's too much for the server" for ages)
01:21:16 [VxJasonxV]
http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=add+to+lo&type=recording&limit=25 doesn't show my song though
01:21:38 [nikki]
that's because it's not the same query
01:22:27 [VxJasonxV]
ahhh, right. because I Started talking about one thing but changed to the other :P.
01:22:31 [nikki]
meh...
01:22:38 [nikki]
I was using too many user scripts
01:22:41 [VxJasonxV]
The 'relate to...' search seems to be not much better.
01:22:56 [nikki]
* nikki attempts to fix yet another
01:23:27 [reosarevok]
Speaking of search
01:23:36 [reosarevok]
Standalone recordings are still non-searchable
01:23:39 [reosarevok]
Which is just stupid
01:25:03 [nikki]
does anyone happen to know how I can select elements by their property attribute in jquery?
01:28:07 [nikki]
ooh. got it...
01:28:13 [nikki]
helps if I google for the right words
01:29:20 [reosarevok]
Are cancellations instantaneous in the end?
01:31:08 [CatCat]
am I really the only one who finds the "google style" instant search thing for relate to popup thing annoying? :(
01:31:26 [reosarevok]
Nope
01:31:30 [CatCat]
awesome
01:31:32 [reosarevok]
I find it useful *and* annoying
01:31:48 [CatCat]
* CatCat wants to type in peace and the clcik a button to have it search
01:32:02 [reosarevok]
I'd be much less annoying if it didn't change the order of the artists of the same name while I type
01:32:25 [reosarevok]
So I'm like "huh, there it is" but before I click I had typed something so it moved so I click something else
01:33:34 [CatCat]
people are so impatient :(
01:33:49 [CatCat]
they want to be spared the need to click a button, like it's the worst thing
01:33:50 [VxJasonxV]
I don't have a problem with the 'relate to' sub-search. I do have a problem with the artist credit search.
01:34:02 [CatCat]
same code afaik
01:34:06 [VxJasonxV]
I'm sure it is
01:34:09 [nikki]
* nikki is more bothered by the credited as field
01:34:21 [nikki]
it doesn't update when I want it to and does when I don't want it to
01:34:48 [VxJasonxV]
I've only had half of those problems.
01:35:24 [nikki]
the former or the latter?
01:35:40 [CatCat]
really really wish it wouldn't search until I cliked a button or that magnefying-glass or whatever
01:35:57 [nikki]
wooo
01:36:01 [nikki]
one script fixed
01:36:03 [CatCat]
magnifying
01:36:38 [CatCat]
god liek trying to keep up with english spelling versa-vis pronunciation wasn't bad enough
01:36:41 [kepstin]
wee, one of the 5 cds I just bought down… http://musicbrainz.org/release/4e7cb770-4467-4ee6-ab66-b9d8e6916957 :)
01:37:45 [CatCat]
thank god for vgmusic database.. i have found the crazyness of random OoT soundtracks what has seems like random numbers of tracks
01:38:13 [CatCat]
but probably all these are separate releases and should have separate release groups :/
01:38:22 [CatCat]
pita
01:38:41 [CatCat]
.. and it's 3 am now :///
01:39:27 [kepstin]
lol - all this fun adding ars to this release, and I realize that i forgot to hit the start button on my cd ripper :)
01:39:40 [kepstin]
* kepstin waits another 6 or 7 minutes
01:40:13 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok sets an artist to Angola
01:41:16 [kepstin]
* kepstin added a few more canadian artists today
01:41:58 [reosarevok]
The point is Angola had zero
01:41:59 [reosarevok]
:)
01:42:05 [kepstin]
heh
01:42:06 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok finds one for Eq Guinea
01:43:58 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok wants to be able to relate national anthem works to countries
01:46:17 [kepstin]
hmm, nice. if you set the minimal similarity for matching files to tracks down to 20% in picard, all it needs is the same track number and length.
01:46:37 [kepstin]
makes it easier for me, since my encoding scripts don't bother to set anything other than track number :)
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02:26:52 [reosarevok]
HEH
02:27:02 [nikki]
OH? :P
02:27:07 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/73b14437-72cd-46ef-bec9-5ec671cb48f2 :)
02:27:19 [ianmcorvidae]
hah
02:27:21 [ianmcorvidae]
nicely done
02:27:46 [ianmcorvidae]
who released it, I wonder
02:27:54 [ianmcorvidae]
can we get a release/label in the vatican out of that too? :P
02:29:41 [ianmcorvidae]
aww, Madacy Records
02:29:42 [ianmcorvidae]
whoever they are
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02:37:58 [reosarevok]
:p
02:38:08 [reosarevok]
CatCat: go find us a band / musician from Svalbard
02:40:02 [kepstin-laptop]
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02:48:58 [reosarevok]
"Honourable Ve'ehala (died 1986, real name Leilua Vī) was a Tongan nobleman best known as a nose-flute player."
03:07:45 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok goes to sleep
04:22:15 [derwin]
hrm.. http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Remixer_Relationship_Type
04:22:22 [derwin]
I don't see how to get this from the xml api ?
04:23:41 [derwin]
like, the example : http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/recording/e8b6b62c-51b2-493a-9138-4a837f574056?inc=artist-credits%2Breleases
04:24:00 [derwin]
but it displays here : http://musicbrainz.org/recording/e8b6b62c-51b2-493a-9138-4a837f574056
04:24:16 [ianmcorvidae]
presumably with ?inc=artist-rels or whatever it is exactly
04:24:56 [ianmcorvidae]
http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/recording/e8b6b62c-51b2-493a-9138-4a837f574056?inc=artist-credits+releases+artist-rels
04:25:06 [ianmcorvidae]
see also http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/XML_Web_Service/Version_2
04:25:14 [derwin]
that was my next question, thx :)
04:26:39 [derwin]
I see, avail as a mbid
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04:36:19 [derwin]
(can one track have multiple remixers? I sorta presume so?)
04:36:42 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah
04:37:00 [ianmcorvidae]
all the ARs are "as many as applicable"
04:43:31 [Leftmost]
Is it just me or should Bill Murray be separated out into an artist credit on this? http://musicbrainz.org/release/01bf538a-985b-338b-b8d7-163c040ed0b2
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* VxJasonxV yawns
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08:57:32 [CatCat]
svalbard isn't a country but a part of norway, it's veyhigh north, only like, some crazy scientists like thre i think
08:57:42 [CatCat]
s/like/live
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09:00:02 [Shisma]
hi
09:00:18 [Shisma]
I found a bug in picard
09:00:46 [Shisma]
can someone tell me if it is known, or if i should post it?
09:03:43 [reosarevok]
CatCat: I know what Svalbard is, but it is on the "country" list, and it has 0 artists :(
09:12:05 [hrglgrmpf]
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09:12:08 [hrglgrmpf]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14690743
09:12:14 [hrglgrmpf]
what do you think?
09:14:49 [CatCat]
it.. shouldn't be ? any more than yan mayen or bjørnøya o_O
09:15:07 [CatCat]
also it has alternate name spitsbergen
09:16:04 [CatCat]
Shisma: erh, until you explain it, we don't know what it is or if it is. infact known
09:16:30 [srotta]
CatCat: �land is part of Finland it's in country list as well.
09:16:38 [srotta]
It even has some artists.
09:17:37 [CatCat]
erh...
09:17:44 [Shisma]
already posted ^^
09:18:33 [CatCat]
svalbard/spitsbergen does I believe a) not have artists (reao seems ot think so anyway) b) belong to either norway or itself
09:18:45 [CatCat]
never heard of Finnish invovlement
09:18:56 [CatCat]
Shisma: i don't see a link
09:19:04 [CatCat]
or an explanation
09:19:07 [Shisma]
http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5944#preview
09:19:16 [CatCat]
ok
09:20:18 [srotta]
CatCat: I just meant there are other areas which are not really countries 8)
09:22:42 [CatCat]
wtf. i have max convert some files from flac to mp3 because itunes can't play flac (bleh) but the files aren'tshowign up wher I designated them, the program is going trought the motions.. but i can't find the files anywher :o
09:22:45 [CatCat]
+e
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09:25:26 [reosarevok]
CatCat: well, it is Svalbard & Jon Mayen in the list
09:25:39 [reosarevok]
It has its own ISO code for some reason
09:25:41 [reosarevok]
So it is there
09:26:22 [reosarevok]
(also Gibraltar and Guadeloupe)
09:26:24 [srotta]
Svalbard & Jon Mayen sounds like a collaboration artist.
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09:27:53 [reosarevok]
Especially because they have nothing in common
09:27:59 [reosarevok]
Except being Norse and empty
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09:29:42 [srotta]
I've occasionally thought about going to Svalbard.
09:29:55 [srotta]
It must be a fun place.
09:31:23 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok has just been informed that this "go to the country house for the solstice party) thing starts in one hour, not at night
09:31:34 [srotta]
And Svalbard at least has people living there.
09:31:54 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is scared of how drunk everyone will be at night
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13:02:09 [Muz]
http://blog.echonest.com/post/6824753703/announcing-echoprint "We’ve partnered with our dear friends at Musicbrainz ... "
13:02:13 [Muz]
Hmm, goodbye pweeds?
13:03:36 [nikki]
* nikki imagines we'll continue using them until they stop working entirely
13:03:57 [Muz]
Well, given how long it took to DROP TABLE trm;
13:04:16 [Muz]
I wouldn't be surprised if they'll continue to exist side by side with another fingerprinting method for a good while yet.
13:05:16 [MBChatLogger]
Ponies and sunshine and myspace and glitter!!
13:05:16 [nikki]
well trms weren't bought by gracenote
13:06:19 [Muz]
<3 MBChatLogger
13:06:24 [nikki]
I see they're still calling them ENMFPs
13:06:37 [Muz]
Just rolls off the tongue.
13:06:40 [nikki]
yeah
13:06:54 [nikki]
it, them... whatever
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13:15:29 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. so how do they handle submitting new tracks that aren't currently in the db?
13:16:22 [alastairp]
we don't do that yet
13:16:46 [alastairp]
but will be launching with a 15 million track database in the next few weeks
13:16:51 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. I suspect your collection of ids for japanese doujin music is currently pretty small ;)
13:17:02 [alastairp]
still working on submit support, but it'll be there
13:20:02 [kepstin-laptop]
I take it that the tools released include the ability to generate the new fingerprints; the issue's just that you don't have a submission protocol for the server available yet?
13:20:22 [alastairp]
yes
13:20:55 [alastairp]
if you run the codegen binary on a full track (no time arguments), then it generates a full fingerprint that we ingest into the server
13:21:20 [kepstin-laptop]
cool.
13:22:00 [kepstin-laptop]
is muscbrainz planning to run their own copy of the fingerprint matching server, or are they going to be using the one run by echonest?
13:22:41 [gioele]
these "new" fingerprints only match similar recordings (I hope) or do they try to match different recordings of the same work?
13:22:58 [alastairp]
kepstin-laptop: the current plan is for mb to use the echo nest's server
13:23:28 [alastairp]
gioele: if the tracks differ enough then we can generate different fingerprints
13:23:36 [kepstin-laptop]
alastairp: but since the code and database are available, musicbrainz wouldn't be locked into the service if something goes wrong. sounds good :)
13:23:37 [alastairp]
the current database has some duplicates in it, for instance
13:23:41 [alastairp]
kepstin-laptop: exactly
13:23:53 [alastairp]
but we hope to make the database as unique as possible
13:24:15 [alastairp]
basically, if a new track comes in and we "find it" in the database, then it won't create a new ID
13:24:45 [gioele]
alastairp: regardless of the actual performance, what is their aim? for example, do the usual ending 2-second silence gaps matter?
13:25:01 [alastairp]
no
13:25:16 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. I'll have to play around with it a bit, I have some tracks with different masterings, slightly different mixes, different arrangements, etc.
13:25:16 [alastairp]
you can get a successful match with <30s of audio
13:25:34 [alastairp]
so we'll probably do the same thing that puid does - just check out the first section
13:25:49 [alastairp]
we will probably go up to 60s for dedup detection
13:25:58 [gioele]
another q: same track, different remaster process (1987 version and slightly improved 2008 version), will these match?
13:26:07 [alastairp]
"probably"
13:26:13 [alastairp]
I've never tried it
13:26:35 [alastairp]
but as long as they're roughly the same speed, I expect it'll match
13:26:39 [kepstin-laptop]
yeah, I have a few of those. maybe I should boot up the tool on my laptop and give it a try :)
13:27:20 [alastairp]
cool
13:27:35 [kepstin-laptop]
and given that you're downsampling everything to... 11khz mono? I doubt that file compression formats will make much of a difference :)
13:27:37 [gioele]
my dream fingerprinting system would say "Hey, these are the same track ("expression" in FRBR terms) but different recordings ("manifestations" in FRBR terms)"
13:27:48 [alastairp]
kepstin-laptop: yeah :)
13:27:56 [alastairp]
kepstin-laptop: one thing you could do is look at the little_eval tool in the server util directory
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13:28:00 [alastairp]
there's no docs for it
13:28:19 [alastairp]
but it takes as input a file with lines "track id ### path to file"
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13:28:32 [alastairp]
and a query file, with "trackid ### query file"
13:28:40 [alastairp]
so you can pass the same file in as both arguments
13:29:04 [alastairp]
and have the remix and original as different lines and different trackids (a trackid is just any unique string)
13:29:09 [gioele]
couldn't multiple fingerprints be provided, one for each level of "detail"? So you could say: 1) they are roughly the same 2) they are the same, except for these 4 seconds in the middle 3) hey, they are exactly the same track
13:29:10 [alastairp]
and see what result it comes back with
13:29:21 [alastairp]
gioele: that's not really how the fp works, sorry
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13:29:33 [kepstin-laptop]
alastairp: i'm pulling the server now, I'll give that a try.
13:30:28 [gioele]
alastairp: I know, that was my "dream fp system" ;)
13:31:07 [kepstin-laptop]
gioele: all you really need for that is a fingerprint that can distinguish the individual recordings; musicbrainz's relationships can take care of the rest.
13:31:33 [luks]
gioele: hey, Acoustid can do that :)
13:31:58 [gioele]
luks: you know you're my hero =)
13:32:01 [alastairp]
cool :)
13:32:37 [kepstin-laptop]
alastairp: huh, _codegen_path = "../../echoprint-codegen/codegen.Darwin-i386" - that tool might need a bit of tweaking before I can run it on 64bit linux ;)
13:32:59 [alastairp]
ah, yeah. we put the architecture in the binary name
13:33:01 [alastairp]
for some reason
13:33:04 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop checks out the codegen tool too, and builds it...
13:33:05 [alastairp]
just build the codegen
13:33:10 [alastairp]
and update path
13:33:25 [alastairp]
codegen needs ffmpeg, taglib, boost
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13:34:06 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop naturally has the development libraries for all of those installed already
13:34:13 [nikki]
does anyone know how the hell I get cron to *send* me emails?
13:34:19 [nikki]
it used to, and now it's stopped
13:34:30 [nikki]
and google is full of people asking the opposite question >_<
13:34:58 [gioele]
nikki: maybe your local sendmail command is broken
13:34:58 [luks]
doesn't it *always* sends email?
13:35:06 [luks]
unless you set MAILTO=""
13:35:35 [Mineo]
nikki: read the posts on google from the bottom to the top :)
13:35:39 [kepstin-laptop]
I never set up sendmain on my computers, so cron 'mails' me by putting all the messages in a file in my home directory...
13:37:32 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. about 26kb of data to submit to generate a fingerprint for a ~4minute track, that's not bad.
13:38:30 [nikki]
gioele: doesn't seem to be, I can send emails with it
13:38:42 [nikki]
luks: that's what I thought, but debian has other ideas
13:39:27 [luks]
I'd try to explicitly set MAILTO
13:43:00 [nikki]
that didn't seem to work either
13:45:02 [Mineo]
anything out of the ordinary in /var/log/cron.log (or crond.log)?
13:45:24 [nikki]
neither file exists :/
13:45:30 [nikki]
* nikki was already looking for a log file somewhere
13:45:41 [CatCat]
wait os is echonest's Alastair alastairp ?
13:45:53 [alastairp]
yes
13:46:00 [alastairp]
hi
13:46:38 [CatCat]
awesome dude!
13:46:41 [CatCat]
\o/
13:46:51 [luks]
nikki: cron logs are in /var/log/syslog on debian
13:47:21 [CatCat]
but what about acustid? can't we have that too?
13:47:31 [CatCat]
it's probably a good idea to have more than one
13:48:06 [CatCat]
but I did say it a long time ago, that we should make our own, and now we have, wtg alastairp and other guys!
13:48:06 [kepstin-laptop]
does that little_eval.py script need a server running?
13:48:07 [luks]
MB is not going to "have" neither of them
13:48:11 [luks]
for now
13:48:16 [nikki]
* nikki doesn't see anything strange in that file
13:48:43 [CatCat]
so it exists, but will not be used by mb, in any forseabl future? pfft
13:48:48 [CatCat]
what's the point in that then?
13:48:52 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop is getting a 'KeyError' on the strings he made up as track ids, and doesn't know enough python to figure out why :/
13:49:02 [CatCat]
* CatCat needs to learn python
13:49:08 [CatCat]
>_<
13:49:35 [CatCat]
anyone out there want to be my tutor? i can pay.. lessee. 10 nok! :p
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13:49:49 [luks]
nikki: I guess you already checked /var/log/mail.log
13:49:52 [Muz]
How many NOK to the EUR?
13:50:24 [nikki]
luks: yep :/ no mention of cron in there
13:50:32 [Mineo]
is cron even running?:p
13:50:40 [nikki]
yes
13:51:09 [nikki]
I already tested that by redirecting the output to a file last night
13:51:18 [nikki]
and I've seen it show up when running ps anyway
13:51:28 [CatCat]
1 dolla is about 5 nok :p
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13:51:48 [CatCat]
instead of money i can cook for you lol
13:51:59 [CatCat]
* CatCat is actually quite adept at cooking :(
13:52:01 [luks]
weird
13:52:10 [luks]
you are sending the mail just locally?
13:52:14 [nikki]
yep
13:52:19 [CatCat]
but in this day and age peopel view it as an impressive, but essencially useless skill
13:52:28 [luks]
maybe there is some strange alias somewhere
13:52:53 [CatCat]
i made tomato soup from scratch (using tomato-puree)
13:53:14 [CatCat]
it tasted jut as good if not better han the half-fabricata soup in a bag type
13:53:17 [CatCat]
less salty
13:54:06 [CatCat]
i am struggeling with mochi, it's a tricky little fucker.. but practice..
13:54:15 [CatCat]
.. no one cares :/
13:54:25 [jesus2099]
automod elections while we can’t properly search for edits to check opportunity is not easy for voters I guess
13:55:25 [CatCat]
i tink that shoudl not be happenign and shoudl be cancelled atleast while ngs is still ksinda not ready and peopel still ahvent had enough tiem ot gt used to it
13:55:39 [kepstin-laptop]
well, if anyone knows that's going on with http://paste.pocoo.org/show/417462/ - let me know :/
13:56:27 [CatCat]
oh god why is typing
13:56:32 [CatCat]
T_T
13:56:35 [CatCat]
* CatCat weeps
13:57:11 [jesus2099]
kepstin-laptop: what versions are you using ? http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz/2011/2011-06/2011-06-22.html#T01-38-10-285933
13:57:38 [CatCat]
not that i pretend to know anything.. but are you sure that all things are the one uptodate or atleast the one the thing expects?
13:57:43 [jesus2099]
My ISRC don’t disappear
13:57:52 [kepstin-laptop]
jesus2099: the latest version of your script as of that post, with a possibly older version of bitmaps
13:58:02 [kepstin-laptop]
it looks like an ordering thing, depends which one runs first
13:58:04 [CatCat]
if eval.py was updated by the thing executign that wasn't..
13:58:12 [kepstin-laptop]
because both use a <div class="relationships">
13:58:30 [jesus2099]
are they disapearing even if you don’t click any of bitmap’s buttons after loading ?
13:59:07 [kepstin-laptop]
I use the 'below' mode by default, and bitmap's script runs a function to clear the inline relationships at load in that case.
13:59:31 [kepstin-laptop]
or it did in the version I have, until I commented it out.
13:59:36 [jesus2099]
ah ok. I use the inline mode…
13:59:36 [CatCat]
kepstin-laptop: what is it thaqt doesn't work?
13:59:47 [CatCat]
* CatCat also uses bleow mode
13:59:51 [CatCat]
below*
13:59:58 [jesus2099]
I think bitmap should put a classname to his elements so that to remove/sort only his ones
14:00:13 [kepstin-laptop]
CatCat: weird interactions with jesus2099's isrc script and bitmap's relationship script
14:00:26 [CatCat]
hmm
14:00:39 [jesus2099]
bitmap’s script is erasing my ISRC according to kepstin
14:00:47 [jesus2099]
if you use the below mode
14:01:13 [jesus2099]
it does the same thing when using a sort function because it hasn’t marked its own lines
14:03:30 [alastairp]
kepstin-laptop: littleeval doesn't need a server
14:03:35 [alastairp]
let me check the error
14:08:33 [jesus2099]
kepstin-laptop / CatCat : I reported the problem to Bitmap http://userscripts.org/topics/77668
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15:33:45 [CatCat]
hi, how do i get http://kraehen.org/isrcsubmit.py to work on mac os?
15:34:16 [CatCat]
iam in the folder but i type Herr-Eple:~/documents/bin mo$ ./isrcsubmit.py [-d] catcat /dev/disk3
15:34:16 [CatCat]
-bash: ./isrcsubmit.py: and i get Permission denied
15:34:56 [alastairp]
chmod +x isrcsubmit.py
15:35:48 [CatCat]
great! now I progress
15:35:51 [CatCat]
but now i get Traceback (most recent call last):
15:35:52 [CatCat]
File "./isrcsubmit.py", line 29, in ?
15:35:52 [CatCat]
from musicbrainz2.disc import readDisc, DiscError, getSubmissionUrl
15:35:52 [CatCat]
ImportError: No module named musicbrainz2.disc
15:35:57 [CatCat]
huh
15:36:31 [CatCat]
do I need something else than isrcsubmit.py
15:36:32 [alastairp]
install pymb2?
15:36:43 [CatCat]
oh dear, wher is that
15:37:07 [alastairp]
osx?
15:37:13 [CatCat]
osx yes
15:37:16 [alastairp]
hrm
15:37:25 [CatCat]
also <-- dunno nothing
15:37:32 [alastairp]
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/python-musicbrainz2
15:37:33 [CatCat]
but i am a good learner loi
15:37:37 [alastairp]
download that tarball
15:37:46 [CatCat]
alrighty, tarballs i can do
15:37:58 [alastairp]
then sudo python setup.py install
15:38:17 [alastairp]
maybe easy_install would work too
15:38:35 [alastairp]
yes
15:38:46 [alastairp]
sudo easy_install python-musicbraoinz2
15:38:59 [CatCat]
ok i test that
15:40:58 [CatCat]
should I untar it first? it complains about not not finding setup.py
15:41:00 [ijabz]
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15:41:12 [luks]
easy_install will do everything for you
15:41:20 [alastairp]
yeah, easyinstall is the better way
15:41:27 [alastairp]
(sorry)
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15:42:26 [CatCat]
Herr-Eple:~/documents/bin mo$ sudo easy_install python-musicbrainz2
15:42:26 [CatCat]
sudo: easy_install: command not found
15:42:26 [CatCat]
Herr-Eple:~/documents/bin mo$
15:42:38 [alastairp]
gngh
15:42:44 [alastairp]
do you have 'pip'?
15:42:49 [CatCat]
what is that?
15:42:53 [alastairp]
try and run it
15:42:55 [hawke_]
CatCat: what distro?
15:42:59 [alastairp]
hawke_: osc
15:43:00 [alastairp]
osx
15:43:07 [hawke_]
ah
15:43:13 [alastairp]
CatCat: OK, if you have the tarball, untar, cd into directory
15:43:15 [alastairp]
run the setup line
15:43:19 [CatCat]
* CatCat nods
15:43:47 [alastairp]
I don't know why setuptools (easy_install) isn't installed by default
15:45:37 [CatCat]
i think that worked
15:46:49 [CatCat]
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/417528/ yea?
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15:59:36 [CatCat]
can't find ctypes.util anywher.. doesany oen have it i can download?
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16:02:11 [alastairp]
hrm
16:02:30 [alastairp]
I think ctypes should be part of python
16:02:30 [luks]
CatCat: I just checked the script, I doubt it will work for you on Mac
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16:02:46 [luks]
it uses a Linux-specific tool for extracting ISRCs
16:02:48 [CatCat]
mac os is so annoying becasue you cant searcf for files in liek the library
16:02:52 [CatCat]
hn
16:03:01 [luks]
where did you get the link to it?
16:03:20 [CatCat]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ISRC
16:03:40 [luks]
yeah, Linux/Python :)
16:04:07 [CatCat]
well it's not my fault that people don't make anything for macs :/
16:04:36 [CatCat]
but do you have ctypes.util?
16:04:42 [luks]
I know, I'm just saying that it will not work
16:05:08 [luks]
even if you install ctypes, it will not actually submit ISRCs
16:05:20 [CatCat]
ok, but
16:05:22 [CatCat]
i want to
16:05:23 [CatCat]
try
16:05:30 [CatCat]
cause atleast
16:05:32 [CatCat]
i'll learn
16:05:45 [CatCat]
where does it fail thoguh?
16:05:51 [__bartholomule]
Can someone point me to an example of some classical works that have been updated for the NGS changes? I looked over the style guidelines again and am not sure if they have been updated.
16:06:15 [luks]
CatCat: it will try to run a program called 'icedax' which you don't have
16:06:22 [CatCat]
is it icedax? because there is another script that uses cdrdao
16:06:32 [CatCat]
loi jinx
16:06:55 [CatCat]
wher do you get cdrdao/icedax then?
16:07:11 [luks]
I doubt they are available for Mac
16:07:22 [alastairp]
CatCat: do you run homebrew?
16:07:31 [CatCat]
what is that?
16:07:38 [CatCat]
erh what do you mean?
16:07:48 [Mineo]
libcdio has support for reading isrcs and has osx drivers, but the example apps didn't work for me at all (on linux)
16:07:51 [__bartholomule]
In particular, I'm looking to clean up http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/feae6aa8-b964-3831-b525-fe2f0fab8927 .
16:08:09 [alastairp]
CatCat: if you don't know what that is, probably not
16:08:16 [__bartholomule]
luks: You can get the ISRC from the "drutil" program that comes with a mac. It isn't terribly fast.
16:08:18 [CatCat]
what is it
16:08:22 [alastairp]
is software that helps you build and install other linux software
16:08:27 [CatCat]
oh
16:08:33 [luks]
__bartholomule: well, I know there are ways to get ISRCs on Mac :)
16:08:43 [luks]
but somebody would have to make the Python script to parse it
16:09:01 [luks]
there is even a branch of libdiscid that can read ISRCs
16:09:15 [luks]
which has a example application called discisrc
16:15:00 [ojnkpjg]
doesn't XLD extract ISRC on mac?
16:15:28 [voiceinsideyou1]
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16:17:50 [nikki]
I use the isrc branch of libdiscid
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16:18:05 [nikki]
with a modified version of the icedax perl script
16:18:10 [nikki]
but who knows what dependencies are needed
16:18:17 [ojnkpjg]
icedax is terrible
16:18:20 [voiceinsideyou]
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16:18:21 [nikki]
indeed
16:18:36 [ojnkpjg]
more often than not it gets ISRCs wrong for me
16:18:39 [ojnkpjg]
or at least as often as not
16:18:42 [nikki]
it sucked in linux, so I wasn't going to try and fight with it for osx :P
16:19:08 [ojnkpjg]
the q-channel reading bits in libcdaudio/cued seem to work much better
16:19:21 [derwin]
http://echoprint.me/ ?
16:19:25 [nikki]
oh, and max reads isrcs and puts them in the files but I guess CatCat wanted something that would submit an entire cd at once
16:19:39 [luks]
it always amazes me why are CDs called "digital"
16:19:51 [luks]
if you have to read things multiple times to get them right
16:20:36 [ojnkpjg]
it's kind of amazing how much work it is to really extract all the info from a cd accurately
16:20:47 [derwin]
yeah :/
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16:24:47 [hawke_]
luks: Why’s that? In that sense, nothing is truly digital…
16:26:31 [luks]
hawke_: well, I would expect digital technologies to be exact
16:27:14 [luks]
if you put in a sequence of 0s and 1s, I'd expect to read the same sequence back
16:28:17 [hawke_]
luks: Yeah, but it’s all dependent on the medium, which is implicitly analog. Hard drives are the same way, flash memory is the same way…
16:30:13 [hawke_]
luks: They just happen to have tighter tolerances than CD.
16:30:23 [luks]
hawke_: I meant audio CDs
16:30:28 [luks]
which work differently
16:31:18 [Shisma]
why are different orchestrations of the same song are different works while performances with different instruments are the same work?
16:32:01 [luks]
do we actually have a definition of works yet? :)
16:32:12 [hawke_]
Shisma: because when the relations were set up, someone didn’t set up that “orchestration” is essentially similar to “arrangement”
16:33:28 [hawke_]
luks: Differently how? I mean, you get back something much closer to raw than you do with a hard drive, but it’s essentially the same concept.
16:34:25 [luks]
hawke_: true, it's just not what I imagine when someone says "digital"
16:34:33 [Shisma]
I would say that the "ninth symphony" in 8-bit is still the "ninth symphony"
16:35:28 [Shisma]
somewhere I read that the work is about "abstract idea" behind the recording
16:35:39 [Shisma]
*the
16:38:36 [hawke_]
Shisma: I think the line where one work becomes another work is a bit of a grey area.
16:39:55 [luks]
I'd personally consider a 8-bit version of the 9th symphony more than just a different arrangement
16:40:10 [hawke_]
I would consider it the same work, as well, for what it’s worth.
16:40:12 [Shisma]
when every recording becomes a new work, the whole works concept becomes kind of useless
16:41:00 [luks]
which release is this?
16:41:18 [Shisma]
it was just an example
16:41:22 [hawke_]
Shisma: Both ways have their merits: having to enter the same info on every recording of a given arrangement is painful, but as you say, too many works makes works useless
16:41:33 [Shisma]
I think about jazz standarts
16:42:04 [hawke_]
Shisma: Do you think about http://kindofbloop.com/ ;-)
16:42:16 [Shisma]
I mean songs that have been reinterpreted over and over again
16:42:57 [Shisma]
but always in different different arrangements and huge variations
16:43:39 [Shisma]
works would be very useful to search for other interpretations
16:43:44 [luks]
I'd treat such works as trees and not flatten them
16:43:59 [luks]
it's hard to say where to draw the line though
16:44:19 [Shisma]
hawke_: haha, thx
16:44:50 [hawke_]
Shisma: I would say it’s generally the same work … but at some point it’s too different and there should be a new work
16:45:45 [Shisma]
how to find this point?
16:46:24 [hawke_]
Shisma: I generally do it when the credits would need to be changed, e.g. when there’s a new lyricist
16:46:55 [luks]
I imagine to say that's arrangement and what'
16:47:02 [luks]
's composition
16:47:03 [hawke_]
(i.e. when someone writes entirely new lyrics for an existing tune)
16:47:15 [luks]
bah, I can't really type
16:47:26 [hawke_]
shisma: I know folk music more than jazz, but: http://musicbrainz.org/work/db475097-bb8d-4cf6-942c-1f7f6f549ebc
16:47:35 [luks]
I imagine with jazz it's hard to say what's arrangement and what's composition sometimes
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16:48:07 [luks]
since most of it is improvised :)
16:52:26 [Shisma]
ok, I have to go now
16:53:49 [Shisma]
at least a tree view would be nice where I can see all tracks which are connected width "is a later version of"
16:53:57 [Shisma]
tracks = works
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17:04:20 [bitmap]
jesus2099, kepstin-laptop: hopefully that should be fixed now http://userscripts.org/scripts/diff/104349/344883
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17:08:11 [jesus2099]
Cool bitmap!! ps. maybe you didn’t need the split(" ") .. just saying... ;)
17:08:53 [bitmap]
jesus2099: oh, what's the easy way? :)
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17:09:47 [jesus2099]
maybe both div.className.split(" ").indexOf("trackrels") != -1 and div.className.indexOf("trackrels") != -1 have the same result, they are both different from -1 when you find the trackrels
17:10:38 [bitmap]
right, I forgot that could be used on strings too
17:10:48 [bitmap]
maybe I'll change it later
17:11:31 [jesus2099]
i’m going to test the new version héhé
17:15:10 [hawke_]
jesus2099: the puid display userscript is yours, right?
17:15:19 [jesus2099]
the inline are not removed dynamically when we switch to below but that’s not a big deal as the setting is actually saved and next time you load a page it’s OK
17:15:28 [jesus2099]
hawke_: yes it is
17:15:35 [jesus2099]
“mine”
17:16:39 [bitmap]
jesus2099: they are removed dynamically for me in opera
17:17:25 [jesus2099]
bitmap: so don’t worry, I’m not using the below mode ;) maybe it’s the same reason why I get shrinked artist names below the release and nobody else does
17:18:22 [hawke_]
jesus2099: It seems to hang on “Fetching release PUID and ISRC…” when you go to the discids or tags page for a release.
17:19:10 [jesus2099]
there are a few pages that are not yet excluded since NGS because the URL patterns are now more difficult to batch exclude.. thanks for telling me I’m about to fix those ;)
17:22:11 [jesus2099]
hawke_: it’s fixed, tell me if you have other stuff before I upload new version ;)
17:22:23 [hawke_]
jesus2099: That’s all that I’ve noticed. :-)
17:23:30 [jesus2099]
well I hope I did not introduce new bug it I don’t think so, here is the new version upploaded http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/81127
17:23:32 [jesus2099]
thank you :)
17:25:51 [hawke_]
jesus2099: Thank you for the script. :-)
17:26:22 [jesus2099]
you’re welcome. I really need it but I’m always glad when someone shares my interest ;)
17:32:52 [warp]
people of #musicbrainz, the edit listing crash has been fixed (atleast for recording merges). if you see any more internal server errors in edit listings, please report them again (poke me on irc if I'm around).
17:33:57 [jesus2099]
ok, great job !
17:39:19 [jesus2099]
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17:39:50 [jesus2099]
warp: from my initial MBS-2845 report, a URL that still doesn’t work http://musicbrainz.org/label/35b927af-46db-479e-ad2a-b3db850fff49/edits
17:40:02 [jesus2099]
MBS-246 actualluy
17:41:12 [jesus2099]
warp: ↗
17:41:46 [warp]
jesus2099: oh, drat. thanks for reporting.
17:41:52 [warp]
let's see which one that is.
17:42:03 [jesus2099]
it’s a label edit this time
17:42:19 [warp]
oh, do you know the specific edit?
17:42:44 [jesus2099]
hell no :/
17:43:03 [jesus2099]
I don’t have the means to look for that kkind of funny stuff
17:43:15 [warp]
ok
17:44:40 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 is going back through his edits to find this
17:45:21 [warp]
I found it in the log file, Delete ReleaseLabel appara-ntly.
17:47:27 [reosarevok]
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17:47:38 [reosarevok]
Say WHAT!
17:47:46 [reosarevok]
I can see edits for my subscribed entities now!
17:47:48 [reosarevok]
What changed?
17:47:59 [jesus2099]
reosarevok !!!!!!!!!!! whot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:48:09 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/subscribed works for me
17:48:12 [reosarevok]
No 502
17:48:13 [reosarevok]
:o
17:48:17 [warp]
reosarevok: sometimes we fix bugs.
17:48:34 [reosarevok]
But didn't it involve merging the databases and whatever?
17:48:43 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok had the idea that it needed a lot of work
17:49:11 [nikki]
reosarevok: 502 for me :(
17:49:22 [reosarevok]
:(
17:49:24 [jesus2099]
reosarevok: what has changed maybe is your suscbription count ;) because mine still doesn’t work http://musicbrainz.org/edit/subscribed
17:49:25 [VxJasonxV]
I guess I saw this coming
17:49:31 [jesus2099]
502
17:49:32 [reosarevok]
Well
17:49:40 [VxJasonxV]
When it MBChatLogger going to respond to 'puid' with 'DROP TABLE puids;' ?
17:49:45 [VxJasonxV]
like trm
17:49:47 [reosarevok]
Either someone unsubscribed me from a lot of stuff
17:50:02 [reosarevok]
Or it works for some other reason
17:50:07 [warp]
reosarevok: haha, that is one solution
17:50:11 [reosarevok]
Because I've been getting more subscriptions, not less
17:50:28 [warp]
* warp logs into the database server and unsubscribes VxJasonxV, jesus2099 and nikki from half their stuff.
17:50:40 [nikki]
what's the point of subscriptions then? :P
17:50:42 [jesus2099]
warp: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:51:15 [jesus2099]
warp: the crashing edit could be one of these http://musicbrainz.org/user/jesus2099/edits?page=90
17:51:35 [nikki]
VxJasonxV: that wouldn't do much, the table is puid :P
17:52:04 [reosarevok]
trm
17:52:11 [reosarevok]
TRM
17:52:21 [reosarevok]
It doesn´t say anything to me
17:52:26 [MBChatLogger]
I hate the evil empire
17:52:26 [reosarevok]
apple
17:52:28 [nikki]
trms were dropped years ago
17:52:39 [reosarevok]
Oh, so it said it back then?
17:53:20 [jesus2099]
hey guys, what was the date of NGS switch already ?
17:53:43 [warp]
jesus2099: it took three days, there is no one date :P
17:53:56 [jesus2099]
the dateS then ,à
17:54:14 [reosarevok]
16-18 May
17:56:05 [warp]
grmbl, cannot reproduce that crash locally.
17:56:08 [jesus2099]
2011-05-16 then.. thanks reosarevok !!!)
17:56:17 [jesus2099]
warp: did you get my edit page crash too ?
17:56:42 [warp]
yes, I see a crash if I visit your url on musicbrainz.org
17:57:44 [jesus2099]
it’s my only remaining edit page crash after we switch to NGS
17:58:55 [Dr-Hfuhruhurr]
Dr-Hfuhruhurr has joined #musicbrainz
17:58:55 [Dr-Hfuhruhurr]
Dr-Hfuhruhurr has joined #musicbrainz
18:01:28 [jesus2099]
it’s a puitty we don’t have those next/previous edits links any more :)
18:01:58 [EM3RY]
EM3RY has joined #musicbrainz
18:04:07 [jesus2099]
warp: GOTCHA ! http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14565534
18:04:12 [jesus2099]
maybe this one↗
18:04:25 [jesus2099]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14565535 too
18:04:37 [v6lur]
i'd still like votes and/or comments on http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14603067 -- especially re: my comment 23.06.2011 02:29:52 (utc+3 time)
18:04:42 [alastairp]
jesus2099: <3 your arrow :)
18:05:05 [jesus2099]
alastairp: how’s that,
18:05:08 [jesus2099]
 ?
18:05:27 [alastairp]
the fact that you used a unicode arrow to point to the url
18:05:29 [alastairp]
that's cool
18:05:39 [warp]
jesus2099: great!
18:05:50 [jesus2099]
it’s my fixed keyboard yay ↙↓↘←↔→↖↗↑↖
18:06:15 [jesus2099_]
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18:06:16 [warp]
jesus2099: I'm going to grab a new datadump with those edits. this will take some time, but then I can easily fix it tomorrow.
18:06:58 [jesus2099_]
greta !! got to go bnow !
18:07:00 [jesus2099_]
bye
18:07:04 [warp]
bye!
18:08:15 [reosarevok]
v6lur: seeing that cover, and if that's the only official release where it appears (and the rest are bootlegs) I'd attribute the recording to Ferrino only
18:09:01 [v6lur]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14602674 -- wtf did this fail?! in its editing history, i see no medium edits since mine :S
18:09:24 [v6lur]
but that's a live performance!
18:09:30 [v6lur]
reosarevok: ^
18:10:03 [reosarevok]
Hmmm
18:10:14 [hawke_]
v6lur: edits to any recordings on that will fail it.
18:10:31 [v6lur]
why?!
18:10:31 [reosarevok]
hawke_: that's seriously stupid
18:10:39 [reosarevok]
(I mean, not that you say it, the fact)
18:10:40 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Yes.
18:10:58 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Actually, I’m not sure that’s quite correct.
18:11:05 [hawke_]
*merges* to any recordings will fail it
18:11:19 [reosarevok]
Still stupid
18:11:22 [reosarevok]
But at least less likely
18:11:38 [hawke_]
It’s because it changes the MBID of the recording
18:11:42 [hawke_]
on the tracklist
18:11:58 [hawke_]
There’s a bug about it
18:12:32 [v6lur]
but the latest merge affecting it was applied almost two weeks ago...
18:12:53 [hawke_]
v6lur: yeah, but it doesn’t get modbot-failed until it tries to apply it.
18:13:05 [v6lur]
why didn't this edit fail then?
18:13:14 [v6lur]
ah...
18:13:35 [v6lur]
that's also a bit stupid... but also hard to check, i imagine
18:13:39 [hawke_]
MBS-2710
18:13:40 [hawke_]
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2710
18:14:12 [hawke_]
(and its related tickets)
18:14:13 [v6lur]
voted for it
18:14:43 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is at some country house in the middle of Estonia, downloading Picard in a random computer so I can submit a few CDs I found there
18:14:50 [v6lur]
s/it/them/
18:15:04 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Nice. :-D
18:15:17 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok should be doing something else instead, like eating
18:15:22 [v6lur]
reosarevok: first things first (y)
18:15:23 [reosarevok]
But I'm SO FULL
18:15:38 [reosarevok]
So this first, maybe sauna later
18:17:24 [reosarevok]
"Tarmo Pihlap"
18:17:28 [reosarevok]
This looks seriously awful
18:17:32 [reosarevok]
I wonder if it sounds worse
18:17:37 [reosarevok]
:D
18:19:23 [reosarevok]
v6lur: do you know which is the right label for Eesti kullafond releases?
18:20:12 [v6lur]
reosarevok: dont say *anything* like that near a middle-aged or elderly estonian! :D
18:20:37 [v6lur]
i'll search for the label
18:21:07 [reosarevok]
:)
18:21:55 [v6lur]
others in the series seem to be from Hitivabrik, or from NCB
18:22:29 [reosarevok]
Argh
18:22:36 [v6lur]
http://www.lasering.ee/index.php?make=item_show&toote_id=134 says Hitivabrik
18:22:40 [reosarevok]
Anyone can tell me if I really can't combine a discID import
18:22:45 [reosarevok]
With a Free dB one?
18:23:43 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok doesn't really want to write all that by hand
18:24:10 [reosarevok]
Whatever, I'll first import from FreeDB and then add the discIDs
18:27:28 [reosarevok]
"Come with me and let's go to a far away island"? srsly?
18:27:29 [reosarevok]
:D
18:31:53 [EM3RY]
EM3RY has joined #musicbrainz
18:31:57 [v6lur]
oh come on. 90% of today's pop music is way worse
18:32:02 [v6lur]
:P
18:35:16 [reosarevok]
That's also true
18:35:58 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok was in a "latin summer party" in Atlantis this week (friends were going) and the only difference with a normal party was they played more Shakira than usually
18:36:13 [reosarevok]
Yay for your country's idea of "latin" :p
18:36:24 [reosarevok]
(ok, ok, I got what I deserved for going to Atlantis)
18:36:58 [reosarevok]
nikki: is there any report about how the confirmation " * Are you sure that you wish to attach the disc ID 6nIcZDQMszuL4vGp5OEDvFdHeRE- to Eesti kullafond by Tarmo Pihlap?" should indicate the medium number?
18:38:11 [v6lur]
you got what you deserved indeed... never been there, and never plan to go either :P
18:39:17 [reosarevok]
But you know, saying no to a friend the day she's leaving the town after graduation is not polite :(
18:40:28 [v6lur]
yea, agreed, i guess. (anyway, the first thing that the word/name "atlantis" brings to my mind, is the 'pegasus galaxy'... but that's my "problem" :)
18:41:39 [reosarevok]
It brings the Indiana Jones game to mine
18:41:44 [reosarevok]
Which is not too bad
18:41:50 [reosarevok]
Definitely better than the club
18:43:29 [derwin]
my girlfriend beat that game recenrtly
18:43:32 [derwin]
on the ipad
18:44:31 [Leftmost]
Is it possible to select a different release duplicate than those guessed at based on release title?
18:45:47 [reosarevok]
Leftmost: I think only from "Add disc" in the tracklist
18:45:56 [reosarevok]
(unless it is not possible there either)
18:46:17 [nikki]
reosarevok: haven't seen one
18:46:59 [reosarevok]
nikki: could you make me the favour? I'm not at my laptop and I should finish what I'm doing and go back with the people
18:47:10 [nikki]
maybe :P
18:47:15 [nikki]
* nikki is cooking
18:48:26 [reosarevok]
Doesn't have to be now
18:48:56 [reosarevok]
v6lur: is this "play Estonian covers of foreign hits on the radio all the time" a common thing?
18:49:24 [v6lur]
yes
18:49:31 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is listening to a cover of "It's Raining Men"... Geri Haliwell's version of it to make things worse
18:49:39 [v6lur]
depending on the station, of course, but yes
18:52:03 [v6lur]
a time-honoured tradition from the years behind the iron curtain, when the only way to get good western music played on radio here was to say to the soviet officials that some song or another is by some (fictional) polish composer, and make new lyrics for it...
18:52:56 [v6lur]
you'd be surprised how many songs were covered this way...
18:55:16 [reosarevok]
wow
18:55:19 [reosarevok]
Awesome
18:55:30 [reosarevok]
(if only they stuck to the "good" western music part...
18:56:06 [reosarevok]
v6lur: "Öös (olles su kõrval)" The parentheses stuff is smaller, does it look like part of the title to you?
18:56:14 [v6lur]
well, first they did, i think/hope
18:56:27 [v6lur]
hm
18:56:53 [v6lur]
that *might* be a separate phrase from the lyrics, but it may also be part of the same line...
18:57:10 [reosarevok]
It's on the back cover
18:57:21 [reosarevok]
So if it is not ETI I imagine it's part of the title
18:57:26 [v6lur]
üllar jörberg?! wtf dude? :D
18:57:41 [reosarevok]
Don't ask
18:57:51 [reosarevok]
Old people live here
18:58:42 [v6lur]
people with weird musical taste, rather... even for estonians
18:58:55 [reosarevok]
In the box there was a "Meie mees" record too
18:59:35 [v6lur]
ohyea, the "party music"...
19:00:17 [reosarevok]
Aaand, "Anne Veski" now
19:00:39 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok hopes the music is better than her cover pic
19:01:15 [reosarevok]
Oh, nice, this one is in MB
19:01:19 [reosarevok]
But without the discIDs :)
19:02:53 [v6lur]
i couldn't find the lyrics for "Öös (olles su kõrval)", so i dunno if "olles" should be capitalised or not
19:03:14 [reosarevok]
Looking at the cover for that
19:03:26 [reosarevok]
Failing to find them might save you 10 sanity points
19:03:39 [v6lur]
there doesn't happen to be a booklet with lyrics included, does it?
19:04:18 [reosarevok]
Nope
19:04:35 [reosarevok]
Just a crappy 1 page "booklet" with the writer info
19:04:41 [reosarevok]
(which I'm too lazy to enter)
19:04:54 [reosarevok]
Hmm
19:05:09 [reosarevok]
Would you use "Eesti kullafond: Anne Veski" as title or just "Eesti kullafond"?
19:05:19 [reosarevok]
The cover does not combine them in any way...
19:22:31 [v6lur]
i'd use just "eesti kullafond", but i've seen disagreement there
19:23:42 [v6lur]
eg http://musicbrainz.org/edit/13759928
19:24:56 [v6lur]
i don't really care myself, but that argument there could be countered with "there's also loads of albums named "the (very) best (of)", and no-one seems to care"
19:25:52 [derwin]
how can I search by mbid?
19:26:08 [warp]
derwin: click 'search' in the menu bar
19:26:28 [derwin]
huh?
19:26:55 [derwin]
that allows me to search by many things
19:26:56 [warp]
derwin: MBID is one of the fields under the "Other lookups" heading at http://musicbrainz.org/search
19:26:58 [derwin]
mbid is not one of them?
19:27:04 [derwin]
*oh*
19:27:08 [derwin]
the other place it says search
19:27:13 [derwin]
and not "advanced search"
19:27:16 [derwin]
... I see
19:29:02 [derwin]
in other news, why did all these people add stuff to musicbrainz with no "label" information?
19:30:18 [ijabz]
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19:30:52 [v6lur]
maybe the label wasn't on mbz and they didn't bother to add it... or maybe they only cared about track/artist/album names...
19:31:18 [derwin]
yeah, I guess. :/
19:32:40 [MBChatLogger]
I hate the evil empire
19:32:40 [CatCat]
wait what, apple
19:32:44 [CatCat]
that's..
19:32:46 [CatCat]
why?
19:33:06 [MBChatLogger]
I hate the evil empire
19:33:06 [CatCat]
apple can be a thing you eat
19:33:41 [CatCat]
i think i wil do the thing that nikki does and put the bot on ignore
19:34:14 [CatCat]
.. wish i could put the festival thing at the park nearby on ignore too. good i'm so tired by this noize
19:35:14 [spaetz]
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19:36:45 [spaetz]
is echonest and musicbrainz related somehow? I see the echonest code is OSS but will the resulting data be free?
19:37:16 [ianmcorvidae]
they're only related inasmuch as musicbrainz is testing out using echoprints as a fingerprinting method
19:37:46 [ianmcorvidae]
we've previously used several different closed-source fingerprinting systems, which have now both died and hurt us, hence using the open source one
19:37:54 [derwin]
I am very interested in that echoprint.me
19:37:57 [ianmcorvidae]
there's also acoustid, under development, which we'll probably also trial/use
19:38:02 [derwin]
someone pasted it to me today
19:38:22 [ianmcorvidae]
derwin: yeah, see also echoprint.musicbrainz.org :)
19:38:55 [ianmcorvidae]
(basically an NGS server that has echoprints roughly the same way we have PUIDs in the main install)
19:39:00 [hawke_]
there's nothing to see there. :-p
19:39:10 [ianmcorvidae]
there are a few echoprints that have been added :P
19:39:22 [hawke_]
you'd need to look at the webservice, wouldn't you?
19:39:33 [ianmcorvidae]
there are at least a few add-echoprint edits
19:39:37 [derwin]
ianmcorvidae interesting times for mb eh? :)
19:39:38 [ianmcorvidae]
not sure how well it's WORKING, of course, but
19:39:46 [ianmcorvidae]
it's always interesting times for MB ;)
19:39:59 [hawke_]
ianmcorvidae: do you happen to have some links? I'm curious how they look on there
19:40:12 [ianmcorvidae]
the only one I have is one where it didn't work properly, heh
19:40:23 [derwin]
that reminds me.. is there a musicbrainz jobs page? I understand it's nonprofit and etc, but I looked around and didn't see anything of the like?
19:40:38 [alastairp]
http://echoprint.musicbrainz.org/recording/e97f805a-ab48-4c52-855e-07049142113d/echoprints
19:40:42 [alastairp]
derwin: ^
19:40:47 [ianmcorvidae]
jobs relating to MB are occasionally posted to the blog
19:40:47 [alastairp]
not valid, but representative
19:41:00 [hawke_]
derwin: I think there are only 2 employees or so of mb
19:41:02 [ianmcorvidae]
of course, http://echoprint.musicbrainz.org/echoprint/TRN5NGX1187AB4F786 doesn't work
19:41:05 [ianmcorvidae]
but yes
19:41:11 [derwin]
heh, and http://echoprint.musicbrainz.org/echoprint/TRN5NGX1187AB4F786 404s
19:41:15 [derwin]
hehe :)
19:41:19 [ianmcorvidae]
there's a number of associated not-quite-MB people
19:41:40 [ianmcorvidae]
like the three SoC students, people who get their money elsewhere but do a lot of MB work, sometimes supporting their job, etc.
19:41:59 [ianmcorvidae]
the guy who's on the C4DM grant to add RDF stuff to musicbrainz
19:41:59 [ianmcorvidae]
etc.
19:42:08 [ianmcorvidae]
but MB itself has 3.5 employees
19:42:19 [derwin]
interesting, yeah I figured it was on that level or so
19:42:23 [spaetz]
ianmcorvidae: thanks
19:42:23 [ianmcorvidae]
the founder/director, two devs, and the .5 is the style head, who gets paid a little bit
19:42:36 [derwin]
but it is among the things I am most interested in, and I am likely to be looking for work soonish, heh, so I thought I'd ask :)
19:42:45 [ianmcorvidae]
heh, you'll be competing with me :P
19:42:52 [derwin]
yeah, I think directly with you
19:42:58 [derwin]
as you're DBA-y ;)
19:43:06 [ianmcorvidae]
oh, also, the guy who is currently interning at the echonest making echoprints is an MB guy :)
19:43:24 [ianmcorvidae]
... and the guy who's making acoustid, in fact
19:43:56 [ianmcorvidae]
I guess I could just name them by their names in here, heh, alastairp and luks
19:43:58 [spaetz]
hehe
19:44:11 [spaetz]
Lukas something, yeah read that
19:44:14 [spaetz]
sounds cool enough
19:44:25 [spaetz]
I wish echonest all the best.
19:44:34 [spaetz]
And I hope that MB can make good use of it.
19:44:53 [ianmcorvidae]
well, PUIDs are going away soon, so we'll certainly be picking up one or both of these new systems :)
19:45:08 [spaetz]
Will all the PUID data be lost for us or just no new data?
19:45:24 [ianmcorvidae]
the data will still be there, but the server where they can be looked up will be disappearing
19:45:29 [ianmcorvidae]
the company went under
19:45:36 [spaetz]
that sucks.
19:45:36 [ianmcorvidae]
well, got sold, but same idea :
19:45:47 [spaetz]
Closed data sucks :)
19:45:48 [ianmcorvidae]
which means they'll be useless strings, so they'll probably get dropped
19:45:51 [ianmcorvidae]
like TRMs were
19:45:55 [ianmcorvidae]
yup, indeed
19:46:04 [ianmcorvidae]
hence us looking only at the open ones now :)
19:46:10 [derwin]
wow, that's insane
19:46:16 [derwin]
years of PUIDs
19:46:17 [luks]
it will be years before PUIDs go away
19:46:51 [spaetz]
Hi luks, let's hope that we have lots of echonest data rather soonish to replace it :-)
19:47:05 [ianmcorvidae]
luks: estimates say the server may stop as soon as september
19:47:10 [ianmcorvidae]
last I heard, anyway
19:47:31 [luks]
I heard something about 3-4 years from a good source :)
19:47:33 [hawke_]
I expect luks would prefer that we have lots of acoustid data to replace it…
19:47:36 [ianmcorvidae]
ah, well
19:47:45 [ianmcorvidae]
I'll trust your source then, but even so
19:48:00 [spaetz]
ahh, right
19:48:14 [ianmcorvidae]
heh, how about lots of both instead :)
19:48:25 [spaetz]
Right :)
19:49:33 [alastairp]
luks: It'd be cool to take a look at a ep/cp comparison
19:49:59 [hawke_]
I’m most interested in tools to work with either of them more. Submit them, examine them to see when one doesn’t belong on a given track, and suchlike
19:50:10 [spaetz]
* spaetz nods
19:50:11 [luks]
alastairp: well, it's a completely different technology
19:50:20 [alastairp]
hawke_: I'll have a submitter for echoprints by the end of the day
19:50:36 [alastairp]
luks: of course, so it'd be cool to see how they work on the same dataset
19:50:46 [luks]
I'm personally mostly interested how will the legal side of the echoprint work out
19:50:56 [hawke_]
alastairp: Something similar to what acoustid-fingerprinter does?
19:51:03 [spaetz]
the share-alike data?
19:51:08 [alastairp]
hawke_: yup
19:51:27 [luks]
spaetz: no, the similarity to shazam patents
19:52:32 [spaetz]
ahh
19:52:35 [luks]
well, I can read :)
19:53:17 [spaetz]
luks: the acoustid added stats graph is cool but it looks like it's mostly 0. Perhaps forcing a smaller scale would be nicer.
19:53:43 [luks]
there is a problem with the NGS merge spike
19:53:59 [luks]
when it goes away, it will be back to normal
19:54:03 [spaetz]
k
19:54:24 [adhawkins]
adhawkins has joined #musicbrainz
19:54:48 [luks]
hi adhawkins, I see you've been working on libmusicbrainz all day :)
19:56:30 [v6lur]
CatCat: i doubt anyone speaks about 'epler' very often here :P
19:56:59 [spaetz]
acoustid looks nice, checking it out the first time
19:58:13 [hawke_]
alastairp: Aside from submissions, the thing I’m most interested in is some way to examine the fingerprints to see which is correct for a given song, when there the same fingerprint gets applied to different things.
19:58:37 [alastairp]
right
19:58:48 [alastairp]
well, the echoprint data is available, for instance
19:58:49 [derwin]
collisions
19:58:57 [alastairp]
so you can see how and where the collisions happen
19:58:58 [__bartholomule]
How should catalog numbers for a release be handled when a box set has a number for the set and there are also numbers for each disc?
19:59:02 [derwin]
I was actually wondering if anyone was planning to try to use the PUID stuff
19:59:11 [derwin]
to manage collisioons when going into the echoprint stuff
19:59:22 [__bartholomule]
I see releases like this, with a ton of catalog numbers applied: http://musicbrainz.org/release/3473b369-a5bd-4799-8a8a-378d99480441
19:59:33 [alastairp]
we are not planning on using any other services to identify duplicates
20:00:03 [hawke_]
alastairp: not so much collisions (where different tracks actually do get the same fingerprint) but bad submissions
20:00:14 [alastairp]
ah, right
20:00:16 [luks]
__bartholomule: the only solution is what you see on that release
20:00:54 [__bartholomule]
Okay. Thanks.
20:01:02 [alastairp]
hawke_: so, you could look at the fingerprint id that gets submitted, look at other ids, get the list of codes (what makes up the actual fp) for each fp id
20:01:07 [alastairp]
and do a comparison
20:01:12 [alastairp]
that's a really cool idea, actually
20:01:21 [luks]
we wanted to link the catalog numbers to CDs, but it didn't get implemented
20:01:33 [alastairp]
always a problem with puids since we never had access to the underlying information, just a random id
20:01:40 [hawke_]
alastairp: exactly.
20:01:45 [alastairp]
yea
20:01:48 [alastairp]
yeah. do that ;)
20:02:12 [derwin]
yeah, I'm saying that you still have PUIDs
20:02:17 [derwin]
and they have no value as PUIDs in the future
20:02:28 [derwin]
but they currently provide some authentication of other entities
20:02:43 [derwin]
(but maybe I don't understand what PUID info is, heh)
20:02:44 [hawke_]
alastairp: :-p Unfortunately, I can’t think of any stats for that to work beyond just looking at the length.
20:03:15 [hawke_]
and maybe length is sufficient, I don’t know.
20:03:27 [luks]
hawke_: it isn't
20:03:33 [kepstin-laptop]
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20:03:49 [luks]
I tried to resolve PUIDs+lengths to MBIDs and still have tons of mismatches
20:04:16 [luks]
I used only recordings within 10 seconds
20:04:38 [alastairp]
so, an echoprint code is a list of <time> <number> pairs
20:04:48 [_Dave_]
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20:04:52 [alastairp]
so if you have 2 codes, you can try and match numbers in order
20:05:08 [alastairp]
in fact, that's exactly what our lookup database does
20:07:46 [hawke_]
So, for example, http://echoprint.musicbrainz.org/puid/3261971e-a3b8-e534-0f2c-2200ab5320fd …assuming that’s wrong
20:08:21 [hawke_]
How would one go about seeing which one was correct?
20:08:35 [hawke_]
(assuming echoprints instead of PUIDs, of course)
20:15:08 [alastairp]
right
20:15:19 [alastairp]
so you would ask for the underlying codes of each fingerprint
20:15:29 [alastairp]
*of each if
20:15:30 [alastairp]
id
20:16:18 [alastairp]
and get something like https://gist.github.com/1043521 for each of them
20:17:09 [alastairp]
then https://github.com/echonest/echoprint-server/blob/master/API/fp.py#L190 that method will tell you how similar the 2 are
20:17:26 [alastairp]
and you could conceivably say "not similar enough, I'm not adding it"
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20:29:24 [hawke_]
alastairp: Well, I’m thinking of looking after the fact…where the fingerprints have been submitted by someone using Picard, once Picard has such support.
20:29:36 [alastairp]
right. the server could do that
20:29:51 [alastairp]
or you could write something that scrapes musicbrainz and does the lookups
20:30:00 [hawke_]
How would it do that, though?
20:30:22 [hawke_]
I mean, I could compare each fingerprint to a local copy I suppose
20:31:48 [hawke_]
Or should it be enforced by the server, disallowing EP submission if it’s too dissimilar to one already on the track?
20:33:39 [luks]
alastairp: fyi, you can't use taglib from multiple threads at the same time
20:33:42 [hawke_]
(I’d say it should not, but…)
20:33:53 [alastairp]
luks: ah, thanks!
20:34:09 [alastairp]
we were just looking at that
20:37:21 [DarkerAudit]
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20:37:22 [alastairp]
luks: do you know how/why, and what the chances of fixing it is?
20:39:16 [luks]
because it doesn't use atomic reference counting
20:39:44 [luks]
it's fixed in git but you can't depend on it for now, because it might not be available on some platforms
20:46:16 [alastairp]
right, OK
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20:52:24 [__bartholomule]
Is there any case where you would want to use the "Performing Orchestra" relationship and not set the recording artist to match? Assuming it is purely orchestral music, of course.
20:54:06 [hawke_]
__bartholomule: I think it’s in question as to whether it should be attributed to composer or performer, isn’t it?
20:55:08 [__bartholomule]
I thought it was already established that a composer does not usually perform a work, especially with old classical works.
20:57:37 [__bartholomule]
Randomly chosen recording: http://musicbrainz.org/recording/12af5857-b21f-4afe-bdb8-6ef3cfb20dc2
20:58:03 [ianmcorvidae]
it's hard to say which to attribute it to for track artist, certainly
20:58:12 [ianmcorvidae]
not sure about recordings, although I'd say intuition doesn't assign that to the composer
20:58:17 [hawke_]
Well, I agree with that statement, but the style guide still says otherwise, as far as I know.
20:58:31 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, there is that problem :P
21:04:08 [hawke_]
Actually, does the style guide have anything official to say at all on the topic?
21:04:14 [suriv_]
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21:05:01 [hawke_]
CSG is unofficial, is it not?
21:05:44 [__bartholomule]
I can't find any mention of recording artist on the style guidelines. It isn't on the classical guide, and there isn't anything here: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Recording
21:06:42 [hawke_]
__bartholomule: I can’t find any mention of track artists, either.
21:07:00 [hawke_]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Artist says how to handle an artist once you’ve decided which one to use…
21:07:11 [hawke_]
…but gives no guidance as to what artist to use when.
21:10:23 [JoeLlama]
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21:12:17 [__bartholomule]
In the lack of written guidance, does intuition serve as a proper substitute?
21:13:39 [adhawkins2]
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21:14:38 [hawke_]
__bartholomule: Well, there’s the CSG which someone will probably bring up, but you can certainly argue that CSG is not official and is not properly updated for NGS
21:19:10 [__bartholomule]
And argue I shall. :)
21:22:06 [spaetz]
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21:56:26 [alastairp]
luks: hmm. just a query about threading in taglib again
21:56:35 [alastairp]
what platforms doesn't it work on?
21:56:39 [alastairp]
windows, I assume?
21:58:02 [nikki]
luks: I figured out the cron problem, sort of. I had "&" at the end and when I removed it, it started sending emails again
21:58:15 [nikki]
the weird thing is that I didn't change the crontab, so it worked before I upgraded cron o_O
22:06:15 [ijabz]
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22:45:24 [kepstin]
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23:31:48 [kepstin]
* kepstin finds it amusing that the "CDWarehouse" store near him sells new and used vinyl.
23:39:52 [Tecfan]
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23:43:50 [kepstin]
huh. the isrcs on the tracks of http://musicbrainz.org/release/045c849c-b248-3008-8671-31d38b3abfdc make no sense
23:44:06 [kepstin]
they're from the year 2000, when the it was released in 1993 :)
23:44:18 [kepstin]
I think the isrcs from a remaster might have snuck in there...
23:44:35 [nikki]
or possibly it wasn't assigned any in 1993, so new ones had to be assigned
23:44:46 [nikki]
'cause iirc, they're the year they were assigned, not the year the song was recorded
23:44:54 [kepstin]
hmm. could be, I suppose
23:45:11 [kepstin]
hmm. doesn't look like there's been a remastered version.
23:49:22 [KRSCuan]
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23:59:39 [CatCat]
v6lur: actuaøøy o makde eplekake just today... soo..
23:59:54 [CatCat]
v6lur: actually I made eplekake just today... soo..