IRC log of musicbrainz on 2011-09-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:01:56 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok has Estonian class tomorrow and needs to wake before noon, so it's time to go
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02:07:50 [crism]
ISTR that there is a special artist in MBz for testing purposes, but I can’t remember what it’s called. What is it, or am I misremembering? TIA.
02:08:02 [kepstin-laptop]
crism: "Musicbrainz Test Artist"
02:08:28 [crism]
kepstin-laptop: Thanks! I did search for Test, but of course, it’s hidden.
02:08:31 [kepstin-laptop]
and feel free to do whatever you want on test.musicbrainz.org, as long as it's in the name of science.
02:08:50 [crism]
Ah, even better. Reproducing a bug.
02:09:07 [kepstin-laptop]
(but test.musicbrainz.org is running different code from the main server, with some experimental features)
02:18:43 [crism]
voiceinsideyou: MBS-3226 updated with repro info.
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04:07:04 [jessew]
I'd like to work on updating some of the wiki pages about AR to reflect NGS -- anything I need to know to avoid stepping on any toes?
04:11:22 [CallerNo6]
jessew: are you talking about editing things marked "official style guideline"?
04:12:28 [jessew]
I don't think so -- I'm thinking of editing pages like: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Writer_Relationship_Type to fix up the references to Track (which are now Work or Recording, mostly)
04:14:31 [PasNox]
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04:18:06 [CallerNo6]
Ah. Right. I was just talking to nikki about that the other day/night/whatever. You should ping her when she's around.
04:18:31 [jessew]
nods. will do.
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04:45:10 [jessew]
How can I search for examples of a given AR?
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04:53:29 [jessew]
It seems like the NG interface doesn't use the link phrases listed on the wiki anymore. Is this right, or am I just missing where they are used?
05:04:01 [CallerNo6]
If you're running a local version of the db, you can use sql queries directly. I don't know of a way to do it through the web interface.
05:04:40 [jessew]
hm, I thought that was it. Sigh.
05:05:06 [jessew]
CallerNo6: do you know anything about the lack of use of the old link phrases?
05:05:44 [CallerNo6]
I'm not sure what you're asking.
05:05:55 [jessew]
Let me give an example:
05:06:31 [jessew]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Member_Of_Band_Relationship_Type states, in the Link Phrases section: "# Artist has/had member(s) Artist "
05:07:35 [jessew]
http://musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/artist-artist lists, under the "member of band" item, the "Forward link phrase": {additional} {founder:founding} member of
05:08:28 [jessew]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/ff84e1f5-258c-45a3-8da5-11b3eeddcb7a/relationships (an artist with this AR) states: "member of: Madness (English pop/ska band) [ Remove | Edit ] "
05:09:53 [jessew]
and the corosponding group: http://musicbrainz.org/artist/5f58803e-8c4c-478e-8b51-477f38483ede/relationships states: "members: " etc.
05:10:08 [jessew]
I remember the "has/had member(s)" phrase appearing somewhere before, but I don't see it anywhere, now...
05:10:55 [jessew]
does that make my question somewhat clearer?
05:11:02 [CallerNo6]
got it, yeah.
05:11:10 [jessew]
:)
05:11:52 [CallerNo6]
I assume that was changed as part of the NGS changeover.
05:12:02 [jessew]
yeah, I assume so.
05:12:05 [jessew]
too
05:12:36 [CallerNo6]
I /think/ I've seen a few times where somebody went through the style council (mailing list) to update a link phrase
05:12:50 [jessew]
post NGS?
05:13:28 [CallerNo6]
Good question. I'll see if there's anything that survived my last inbox purge.
05:13:58 [jessew]
heh. there are online archives of the list, right?
05:16:00 [CallerNo6]
yeah, but it's easier to search my local mail
05:16:07 [jessew]
nods
05:16:38 [CallerNo6]
archives here http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/
05:16:46 [jessew]
thx
05:17:10 [CallerNo6]
and here http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.musicbrainz.style
05:17:56 [jessew]
nods
05:19:34 [CallerNo6]
There's a pretty big need for institutional memory in this project.
05:20:03 [jessew]
ah.
05:20:04 [CallerNo6]
More wiki editors would be super
05:20:21 [jessew]
;-}
05:21:11 [jessew]
I tried to get involved about 8 months ago, but everyone was wrapped up in NGS prep, so it was really hard to get up to speed...
05:22:55 [CallerNo6]
I think that'll always be the case. Have you done much editing?
05:23:23 [jessew]
some -- mostly in the folk, filk and celtic genres
05:25:28 [jessew]
http://musicbrainz.org/user/JesseWeinstein/edits <- here they are
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05:25:51 [jessew]
and added a few hundred tags for those genres
05:27:24 [CallerNo6]
Well, if nobody else has said it, welcome to musicbrainzland. This is a terrible time of day to get answers on IRC. Europe is asleep or something.
05:28:05 [CallerNo6]
And /I/ certainly don't know what's going on.
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05:28:52 [jessew]
heh. no worries. I'm in California, and would be asleep if I had enough sense.
05:29:23 [jessew]
CallerNo6: what sort of edits do you work on?
05:40:09 [ehrgeiz]
good morning :)
05:40:26 [jessew]
ehrgeiz: good morning (somewhere)!
05:42:19 [CallerNo6]
Ah. The graveyard shift is over.
05:42:33 [jessew]
snicker
05:53:38 [ehrgeiz]
:/ i need a new stereo amp
05:58:59 [jessew]
ehrgeiz: do you know what happened to the old AR link phrases with the transition to NGS?
06:04:10 [ehrgeiz]
* ehrgeiz is absolutely clueless
06:04:29 [jessew]
excellent! welcome to the club! ;-)
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06:32:17 [ehrgeiz]
there should be "germany/swiss/austria" in the country list.
06:33:02 [ehrgeiz]
* ehrgeiz goes on ticket search for a request to add multiple countries..
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07:38:39 [CatCat]
i actually don't remember the norwegian for email..
07:40:18 [CatCat]
jessew: know that not all AR's have been mitigated/recreated in the db yet (or something ) like that
07:40:36 [jessew]
CatCat: thanks, good to know
07:41:26 [CatCat]
alos this: cool with new wiki editors!
07:41:50 [jessew]
CatCat: heh -- yes, it does seem a little dusty in spots...
07:41:51 [CatCat]
in general, as long as you're not editing things "official guideline"
07:41:57 [jessew]
of course
07:42:04 [CatCat]
just go out and BE BOLD
07:42:19 [CatCat]
if anything is wrong it can always be edited later.. it's a wiki
07:42:24 [CatCat]
:)
07:42:28 [jessew]
:-0
07:42:32 [jessew]
er, :-)
07:43:50 [CatCat]
i have been meaning to try to edit in the wiki.. i am sorta an unofficial wikiwarden with no power or apparent doings.. but i still feel repsonsible for out little wiki
07:43:59 [CatCat]
;)
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07:44:19 [jessew]
* jessew nods to CatCat, waves to ijabz
07:44:21 [CatCat]
there is a lot of pages that need stuff like wikiformating updates
07:44:42 [CatCat]
they thnik i have a category "to be revieved"
07:44:47 [ijabz]
jessew ciao
07:44:47 [jessew]
I'm working on Template:Relationship/Families/Text ATM
07:44:49 [CatCat]
er reviwed
07:44:57 [CatCat]
hmm
07:45:05 [CatCat]
templates are a mess
07:45:18 [CatCat]
a lot of them are not really wanted or used by anyone else than this one guy
07:45:22 [jessew]
btw, CatCat -- do you know how to get track numbers out of the webservice?
07:45:36 [CatCat]
ah.. there shoudl be a get for that..
07:45:49 [CatCat]
but unfortunatly i am not a coder at all so i don't know
07:45:50 [jessew]
yeah, it's not listed on the page (like many things)
07:46:06 [jessew]
I'm trying to puzzle it out for musli on -devel
07:46:07 [CatCat]
they talk abotu it AL THE TIOME here thoguh.. wait a few hours and soem guy or nikki will show up
07:46:13 [jessew]
nods
07:46:34 [CatCat]
the bets guy woudl be warp, luks or ruaok
07:46:38 [CatCat]
or nikki
07:46:53 [CatCat]
(not secretly higlhighting them oh noo :P)
07:47:00 [jessew]
GOT IT.
07:48:28 [CatCat]
hm?
07:48:33 [CatCat]
sorry, i was away
07:48:50 [jessew]
to display track numbers, http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/release/8d2661e7-fd4a-3ea6-b4d1-0bc720115744?inc=recordings
07:48:51 [CatCat]
and i appologise for spelling and such, althoguh it's already 9:48 here
07:49:00 [CatCat]
i'm not awake
07:49:04 [CatCat]
cool!
07:49:21 [CatCat]
you shold edit the page to say how to get it!
07:49:30 [jessew]
it's 12:50 AM here...
07:49:33 [CatCat]
i even remember peopel askign for this
07:49:45 [CatCat]
uh. that's like 23:50?
07:49:49 [CatCat]
sorry
07:49:50 [jessew]
I'm getting musli (the person who asked for it) to do it (I hope)
07:49:54 [jessew]
CatCat: yeah
07:49:58 [CatCat]
ah
07:50:06 [CatCat]
we have a saying her.. Time-of-day
07:50:10 [CatCat]
i am in norway
07:50:12 [CatCat]
:)
07:50:17 [jessew]
good place to be
07:50:17 [CatCat]
you california
07:50:19 [jessew]
nods
07:50:26 [CatCat]
well not really, it's bloddy wet atm
07:50:45 [jessew]
cooler than calfornia
07:51:28 [CatCat]
no
07:51:44 [jessew]
argh, really? wet and hot?
07:52:01 [CatCat]
erh wait was that as cool as in cold?
07:52:08 [jessew]
* jessew nods
07:52:10 [CatCat]
but it's so and so
07:52:28 [CatCat]
http://www.yr.no/sted/Norge/Oslo/Oslo/Oslo/meteogram.png <-- norway weather
07:52:31 [CatCat]
* CatCat doesn't liek cold
07:52:34 [CatCat]
like even
07:53:21 [CatCat]
cold means exspensive electricity.. but i gueedss iot's ok if it wasn't for the complete darkeness
07:53:25 [CatCat]
almost
07:53:50 [CatCat]
in the summer. at 3am you get just gray light. in the winter. on the shortest days, you only get a few hours of sunlight
07:54:09 [CatCat]
it's a bit depressing :(
07:54:26 [CatCat]
but alas
07:54:30 [jessew]
I can believe that
07:54:40 [CatCat]
everywher is better than were you are at, isn't it? ;)
07:55:23 [CatCat]
jessew: where in california are you at?
07:56:09 [jessew]
the fine and excessively large city of Los Angeles
07:56:26 [CatCat]
ruaok is in san luis obispo
07:56:37 [jessew]
nods
07:56:59 [CatCat]
i think he's at burning man or somrthing now thoguh
07:57:44 [ruaok]
nope.
07:57:50 [ruaok]
the default world envelops me.
07:58:02 [jessew]
ah -- it awkes!
07:58:03 [CatCat]
oh dear
07:58:18 [CatCat]
wait, have you BEEN or are you GOING to bm?
07:58:22 [jessew]
hi ruaok
07:58:30 [jessew]
CatCat: BM ended on Monday
07:58:36 [jessew]
AFAIK...
07:58:49 [CatCat]
LA: http://www.yr.no/sted/USA/California/Los_Angeles/time_for_time.html
07:58:50 [ruaok]
* ruaok nods
07:58:53 [ruaok]
jessew: hi
07:59:06 [CatCat]
can't get to the english for now somwthing doesn't work in my broser, but language oyu can chose
07:59:13 [CatCat]
ruaok: waga poly!
07:59:23 [ruaok]
klepto
07:59:27 [CatCat]
:)
07:59:46 [CatCat]
dude completely OT can i use poly klepto as a name for a pokemon on gpx+?
07:59:52 [CatCat]
(soem site with stuff)
08:00:33 [CatCat]
(thought to ask, just in case )
08:00:52 [CatCat]
it's pretty hot in cali thoguh, yes
08:01:43 [CatCat]
hey filk, btw!
08:02:07 [CatCat]
* CatCat the only filk catcat knows is like.. this one cover thing of barenaked ladies song abotu babylon 5
08:02:14 [CatCat]
but i think that's awesome
08:02:40 [jessew]
CatCat: I has LOTS more YouTube links, if you want them... I was sending them to CallerNo6
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08:03:11 [jessew]
I'll just give you a taste, considering your name: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKVI2_Dl00Y
08:03:12 [CatCat]
eh... nah, i try to stay away fro msites liek wikipedia nd yoputube and tvtropes when i have stuff to be dopigng that day
08:03:16 [CatCat]
argh!
08:03:29 [CatCat]
i have stuff to do today :)
08:03:36 [jessew]
heh heh heh
08:04:02 [CatCat]
it's bad enough with stuff like http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=GGRQONyudiM
08:04:16 [jessew]
yeah
08:05:03 [jessew]
Caller turned me on to a old 60s French folk group Pentangle...
08:09:52 [reosarevok]
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08:10:55 [jessew]
finally finished understanding and fixing up http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Template:Relationship/Families/Text
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08:31:15 [jessew]
g'night all!
08:37:55 [CatCat]
natta
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08:47:18 [jesus2099]
time for me to unsubscribe tons of artists… I’m eager to have that collection subscription to watch only those edits of CDs I have…
08:47:56 [jesus2099]
I can’t cope with that many subscribed edits as there seem to be a rush for recordings blind merges
08:48:36 [jesus2099]
if people want to merge stuff, would it be just works and RG that it would be less potentially damagerous… :/
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08:54:15 [ehrgeiz]
jesus2099: whats a 'blind merge'?
08:54:34 [reosarevok]
ehrgeiz, one done just because lengths are similar
08:54:51 [jesus2099]
merging recordings when you didn’t ear check that it’s actually the same version, cut (trim silence is ok though), same arrange, same mastering etc.
08:55:18 [jesus2099]
similar length is not enough because remastering might not change duration
08:57:22 [reosarevok]
lidel, ping
08:57:33 [reosarevok]
Feel like doing other round of last minute fixing? http://musicbrainz.org/user/susans/edits/open?page=26 :p
08:57:39 [ehrgeiz]
but recordings will be a useless mess forever if we don't merge; also every compilation will have it's own recordings then?
08:57:48 [CatCat]
yea
08:57:58 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok was working on it but has to go to Estonian class
08:58:38 [jesus2099]
ehrgeiz: indeed I don’t see any p^roblem in merging only when we know it’s equal
08:58:43 [jesus2099]
long list
08:58:52 [jesus2099]
≠ mess
08:59:11 [jesus2099]
HERE IS THE REAL MESS : there is no ruch merging recordings and once it’s wrongly merged, a split means that we have to tremove every then made ambiguate info like ISRC, PUID, durations, arranger and recheck everything for each splitted recs.
09:03:16 [ehrgeiz]
*ear check* merges will happen as good as never. (acutally did one today)
09:03:36 [ehrgeiz]
and then, whats the point in having recordings?
09:03:53 [jesus2099]
ehrgeiz: good start, as I said no need to merge anyway because short list = mess, here
09:04:15 [jesus2099]
the piont is to have less track AR, when we can merge recs we gain some AR
09:04:31 [jesus2099]
we don’t merge all recs for one song, this is called works
09:05:16 [ehrgeiz]
but that won't work for classical
09:12:37 [jesus2099]
merging not equl recordings ? hopefully then if that is not done…
09:14:39 [ehrgeiz]
and work/recordings would bring great benefit towards classical releases if recordings are treatet as their literal meaning (different recordings) and not as exactly duplicate audio data (as you suggest i suppose)
09:20:36 [jesus2099]
as I suggest yes, because the recording carries the mastering AR, this is why MB recordings ≠ performance recordings
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09:27:52 [ehrgeiz]
but you can do a mastering job focusing on a single track (removing background noise, filtering, 'enhancing' certain passages) and you can do a mastering job on a whole release (push loudness to 99% so its extra crispy; leveling volume on a compilation)
09:28:45 [ehrgeiz]
for the first example a new recording might be valid (if there is really notable difference)
09:29:08 [ehrgeiz]
and for the second not..
09:29:26 [ehrgeiz]
otherwise i don't see the point in recordings at all
09:29:28 [jesus2099]
you would attach mastering to release level for second case then
09:30:01 [ehrgeiz]
just introduce shared tracklists (which be introduced with NGS i though)
09:30:04 [ehrgeiz]
yes
09:30:16 [jesus2099]
what i’m talking about with blind merges is mostly when people merge stuff without knowing if there is a difference between a single and album version nor they know which one was used on particular recording...
09:32:41 [ehrgeiz]
shared tracklists *(which should have been introduced with NGS i thought, but aren't entirely implemented as far as i've noticed)
09:40:35 [jesus2099]
it’s just technical backgounrd stuff, those shared tracklists…
09:41:10 [jesus2099]
but could be used as a tool for merging recordings (aïe) when it’s several release of same album (same mastering) :)
09:41:39 [jesus2099]
☞ http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-3136
09:43:01 [ehrgeiz]
merging is always prone to making mistakes, however my position on this matter is that seperate recordings that should be merged are equally wrong as merged together recordings that should be seperate
09:43:07 [ehrgeiz]
theoretically
09:43:23 [ehrgeiz]
editorial wise, wrong merges are horrible
09:43:36 [ehrgeiz]
as you said
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09:50:53 [nikki]
having tons of recordings with the same name but no information to disambiguate them is just asking for someone to pick the wrong one to link a track to
09:51:35 [ehrgeiz]
blind merges, like this one i did today http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15158745 ) are inevitable. chances that someone with all these samplers become an active editor are nil
09:52:32 [jesus2099]
instead of merge I would rather annotate so that nobody would « pick the wrong one to link a track to »
09:52:51 [nikki]
annotate with *what*?
09:53:31 [jesus2099]
with version info as much as you can find in your release
09:54:05 [jesus2099]
torc needs yes-men http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15082297
09:54:14 [nikki]
I think you're living in some dream world
09:54:53 [jesus2099]
no, people won’t pick up exsisting recordings, they will create new ones
09:55:02 [jesus2099]
everytime already
09:55:09 [jesus2099]
so there is no such problem
09:56:05 [nikki]
yeah, so just like pre-ngs, there'll be n recordings for n tracks. the only distinguishing information being the release they're on
09:56:24 [jesus2099]
no problem
09:56:30 [jesus2099]
we now have works
09:56:35 [nikki]
so what was the point of recordings?
09:56:40 [ehrgeiz]
i'd just like to know why you even care about recordings? since
09:57:03 [jesus2099]
carrying track AR and group them when identified duplicates (simultaneous releases albums singles etc.)
09:57:23 [jesus2099]
factorizing when identical
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09:58:03 [nikki]
* nikki shrugs and expects everyone to continue editing the way they have been anyway
09:58:18 [jesus2099]
they will, don’t worry
09:58:23 [ehrgeiz]
restricting the potential of recordings inside one RG
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09:58:34 [jesus2099]
I can also merge everything and loose correct mastering links
09:58:43 [jesus2099]
I mean in the artists I don’t give a damn of
09:58:43 [nikki]
ehrgeiz: err... and what do you do for compilations?
09:59:11 [ehrgeiz]
i was referring to jesus' merge policy
09:59:13 [jesus2099]
ok let’s do it actually ! let’s merge crasye ! and damagerously destoyz
10:00:13 [nikki]
jesus2099: the world isn't black and white you know
10:00:38 [jesus2099]
I want to glitch Madona, Michel Jaquesson, and Petit Poney japanese idol bands into pieces until I get recording count = work count !
10:01:01 [jesus2099]
this will be so much better because having long lists you know it’s so bothering
10:01:23 [nikki]
hmm
10:01:38 [jesus2099]
I just put in a package all the tracjks with quite same time (including those with no times YAY MAN ! )
10:02:09 [jesus2099]
I take for granted that they usually should release just one versino for singles and albums
10:02:55 [jesus2099]
and that to the hell with the masterings. why not adding all the mastering engineers we got through those 10 years releases onto the same recs ! YAY MAN LET’S DO THIS  !
10:03:01 [jesus2099]
COME ON NOW ! ↲
10:03:47 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 stops the CD that’s playing, “voice instrument” can get so irritating
10:05:19 [_bibi]
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10:05:21 [ehrgeiz]
in all my mb years i never came across one mastering AR on track/recording lvl btw (just a note, not an argument)
10:05:50 [jesus2099]
stay more years then
10:06:03 [jesus2099]
LET’S VOTE YES ON ALL THOSE CRAZEY http://bit.ly/pb6inY
10:06:22 [jesus2099]
SO GOODLY REFERENCED EDITS BTW YAAAAY ↗
10:07:47 [jesus2099]
it will be so cool that we won’t see the utility of recordings any more ! and they will be merged with works, maybe that’s the biggest solution ever
10:09:00 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 has to seriously downsize its subscriptions down to 10
10:10:53 [ehrgeiz]
maybe you should do a bit of classical editing to see theres still a huge difference between recordings and works?
10:11:07 [jesus2099]
that’s exactly what I’m saying ehrgeiz
10:11:14 [jesus2099]
no need to do classics for knowing that
10:11:41 [jesus2099]
I have some bands all releases and with new versions all the time
10:11:52 [jesus2099]
same duration ← GOTTCHA MAN !
10:12:10 [jesus2099]
bands→band
10:12:19 [jesus2099]
some→this
10:12:36 [jesus2099]
that’s enough to doubt and not do crazy blind stuff IMO
10:15:30 [ehrgeiz]
i never cheered for brainless mergin together.
10:16:04 [jesus2099]
I didn’t say you were in the lot :)
10:20:02 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 ☞ so long pipeule, lunch times here
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11:50:06 [ehrgeiz]
emimusic made bowie a hompage suitable for 12 year old girls
11:52:10 [ehrgeiz]
crazy.. http://www.davidbowie.com/
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12:20:12 [sezuan]
What's the recommended way to run the musicbrainz server for production use? I tried the fastcgi script, but it seems that the performance is not very good, compared to the pre ngs server.
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12:48:32 [sezuan]
it'seems that setting: -M FCGI::ProcManager helps a lot.
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14:43:39 [puchrojo]
Hi, I have a problem. I try to submit the information about a compilations of 4 CD, 2 are already on musicbrain, but if I try to add the 3, I lost the tracklange information
14:44:58 [puchrojo]
I use rhythmbox, but I can use any other, I don't like to type the song-length
14:46:39 [puchrojo]
If I summit as a new complitaion, I have the Length, but it begin with Disc 1 again. It is posible to add it lather to the first compilation?
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14:50:03 [warp]
puchrojo: yes, if it's neccesary you can later merge the releases.
14:50:26 [puchrojo]
warp, thanks, I try it
14:50:35 [warp]
puchrojo: the import/add step you're using should also support just adding a disk to an existing release, but perhaps that's not implemented yet
14:51:31 [warp]
puchrojo: does rhythmbox have some kind of support for adding things to musicbrainz?
14:51:43 [puchrojo]
ja, I cat make it, but I lost the length of the songs
14:52:27 [puchrojo]
warp: I would prefer to user a programm (for Linux)
14:54:10 [puchrojo]
warp: rhythmbox open a website (musicbrainz.org/release/add) with the tracklist and length
14:54:38 [puchrojo]
but only for a new release, If I take a existing one, this data are lost
14:55:22 [warp]
ah, ok
15:08:34 [jacobbrett]
ehrgeiz, that site looks 12 years old. hehe
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15:16:57 [puchrojo]
warp: I try to merge the disk together, but I guest I have no permision: http://musicbrainz.org/user/puchrojo/edits/open
15:19:03 [warp]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/93e00621-c230-4acd-957e-d160ebbf0bf5 has two discs
15:19:12 [warp]
where is the other disc you just added?
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15:20:57 [puchrojo]
warp: It's not more! grrr
15:21:18 [puchrojo]
warp: I guest a cancel to much
15:21:29 [puchrojo]
http://musicbrainz.org/cdtoc/.utE58YCnq1mCsQLaOLAU9ifseI-
15:23:59 [puchrojo]
warp: I submit it: http://musicbrainz.org/release/cd90b620-8f0c-4a81-b0e4-83d2adf5059d
15:25:01 [warp]
ok
15:25:12 [puchrojo]
warp: What is the next steep, should I have to "merge release" or "change release group"?
15:25:21 [warp]
on that page, click the "Merge release" link in the sidebar
15:25:32 [warp]
then go to http://musicbrainz.org/release/93e00621-c230-4acd-957e-d160ebbf0bf5 and click "Merge release" as well
15:26:53 [warp]
you will then see a page where you can enter an edit to merge the releases, you will be able to choose the order of the discs in the new combined release.
15:28:30 [puchrojo]
warp: OK, I make it
15:30:20 [puchrojo]
warp: I guest someone should to accept it, because I can't find the Disk-Colection with 3 CDs
15:31:33 [warp]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15160941 is the edit.
15:32:14 [warp]
yes, you can see in the right that it will be applied in 14 days, or if 3 people vote in favour before that time.
15:33:37 [warp]
it looks like all of the discs have "Songs 2 - Von Folk Bis Hip Hop" as the title, which isn't neccesary as the entire release already has that title.
15:34:19 [warp]
it would be best to remove that later.
15:34:26 [puchrojo]
warp: OK, I make it
15:36:01 [puchrojo]
warp: but, how can I use the information to rip the CD in mp3? without to wait 14 days
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15:41:57 [puchrojo]
warp: I found it, I use another program to rip: bansche. Thanks for your help
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15:55:05 [dubwai]
anyone know how to get only discogs value <xsl:value-of select="metadata/release/relation-list/relation/@type/discogs/target"/> not work :-(
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16:11:23 [dubwai]
<xsl:value-of select="metadata/release/relation-list/relation[@type='discogs']/target"/> it works
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16:25:13 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 is reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_instruction_creep
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16:52:16 [nikki]
can someone ping me if they see this jessew guy?
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17:09:44 [CatCat]
hi nikki
17:09:50 [nikki]
hi
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17:12:46 [nikki]
if people disagree, they can vote no :P
17:13:23 [warp]
CatCat: well you cannot really unmerge recordings. it would create new recordings with different GIDs.
17:13:38 [warp]
CatCat: but if you're unsure about a particular edit just don't autoedit it.
17:13:53 [CatCat]
i cant auto edit merges, and i'm not unusre about it
17:13:57 [CatCat]
it was just..
17:13:59 [warp]
* warp doesn't know which edits are auto-edits.
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17:15:53 [hawke]
warp: How do you figure you can’t unmerge recordings?
17:16:19 [hawke]
I mean, you can’t get back the old recording IDs, true.
17:16:20 [CallerNo6]
hawke bait: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Titles/Part_numbers
17:16:35 [warp]
hawke: well, that's it. MBIDs are important :)
17:16:37 [CatCat]
LOL
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17:17:09 [jesus2099]
believe it or not, the batch change track-recording association is auto-edit
17:17:25 [jesus2099]
came handy
17:17:36 [hawke_]
warp: I don’t see them as all *that* important.
17:17:50 [CatCat]
* CatCat away cooking
17:17:53 [CatCat]
* CatCat run away
17:17:55 [jesus2099]
sure they just destruct the release
17:18:29 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 ran away too
17:18:31 [warp]
hawke_: I do, that's how a recording is linked to data in other databases.
17:19:11 [warp]
e.g. my listening data in GNU FM installations / last.fm.
17:19:33 [hawke_]
warp: yeah, but when it’s wrong/obsolete, it goes away, and that’s (more-or-less) fine.
17:20:05 [warp]
sure, but if it turns out such an edit was wrong. and you recreate the recording, you cannot get the gid back.
17:20:37 [hawke_]
So? What’s the harm in that?
17:21:24 [warp]
If I then listen to that particular track, the listening data in my GNU FM install is messed up.
17:22:13 [warp]
if there's a GID redirect because of a merge it will even point to the wrong recording in MB.
17:23:19 [hawke_]
Hmm, I think this kind of goes back to the discussion of what info is necessary to really identify a recording.
17:23:31 [hawke_]
i.e. that recording is not necessarily enough
17:23:49 [warp]
well, the MBID of a recording is itself enough to identify a recording :)
17:23:58 [hawke_]
Not in this kind of case…
17:24:35 [hawke_]
where presumably there’s a release-mbid where the release doesn’t have that recording-MBID on it at all
17:24:40 [warp]
for the purposes of last.fm/gnu fm you usually also want to know the context (the release) of the recording as it was listened to
17:24:51 [warp]
but that seems like a seperate issue to me.
17:25:35 [hawke_]
I think it’s the same issue, assuming your purpose is to find the correct “new” recording-MBID
17:28:18 [nikki]
* nikki would maybe create new mbids for both if it were easy enough to
17:28:51 [hawke_]
So that the old MBID becomes a “known-dead” one?
17:29:51 [nikki]
yeah, and I presume the people who want a mapping of old collaboration mbids to the new split artists would also want a mapping like that for the recordings
17:31:27 [warp]
perhaps auto-editors should just have the power to fix GID redirects. (or some other class of user if it's is thought to dangerous to give auto-editors that power, or regular edits if we think it's harmless enough that everyone should be able to enter such edits).
17:32:21 [hawke_]
I think the MBIDs are too esoteric for that to be done reliably.
17:33:01 [hawke_]
Maybe if someone comes up with a good visualization tool for MBID-history.
17:36:50 [warp]
"One of MusicBrainz' aims is to be the universal lingua franca for music by providing a reliable and unambiguous form of music identification; this music identification is performed through the use of MusicBrainz Identifiers (MBIDs)."
17:36:55 [warp]
according to http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Identifier
17:37:37 [warp]
so I do think it is important that those people who care about them eventually get tools to fix bad redirects.
17:38:09 [luks]
but it's not possible without having access to the historical version(s) of the database
17:38:22 [luks]
you can only guess which ID belongs where
17:38:28 [hawke_]
exactly.
17:38:47 [hawke_]
…or is that stored in the edit history at all?
17:39:14 [warp]
well I tend to notice these problems because I have an old MBID, either in a tagged file or in some other database.
17:39:46 [luks]
no, the edit history doesn't have any MBIDs
17:40:11 [luks]
but even if it did, you wouldn't know the releases to which they belonged
17:40:15 [warp]
so when I notice a problem with an MBID I usually have enough information to fix the redirect.
17:41:12 [hawke_]
luks: How does the edit history work, then? How does it know which edits to display?
17:41:28 [warp]
hawke_: row ids.
17:41:29 [luks]
it uses the internal numeric IDs
17:41:31 [hawke_]
ah.
17:42:01 [hawke_]
So there must be a fair number of orphaned MBIDs…
17:42:26 [luks]
well, MB didn't store old MBIDs on merges for a very long time
17:42:39 [luks]
so a lot of MBIDs were lost that way too
17:42:42 [hawke_]
Yup.
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17:53:31 [nikki]
luks: heh, I've actually entered annotations in the past making a note of mbids pointing to the wrong releases
17:53:40 [nikki]
in the hope that one day I'll be able to unlink those mbids
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17:56:46 [Younes]
Hi guys
17:56:51 [nikki]
hi
17:57:33 [Younes]
a couple of days ago, I asked about slow performance of my install... Someone pointed out that I was using search.musicbrainz.org
17:57:43 [Younes]
I installed my own search locally
17:57:51 [Younes]
and pointing my server install to it
17:58:00 [Younes]
It's still slow
17:58:29 [ruaok]
does it ever give you 503 errors?
17:58:32 [Younes]
When I start a load test, 1st requests run in 40ms and grows to be minutes with time
17:58:44 [ruaok]
sounds like your server is overloaded.
17:58:52 [Younes]
not at all
17:58:56 [Younes]
load is bellow 1
17:59:17 [ruaok]
how about 503 errors?
17:59:25 [Younes]
request are just timing out
17:59:28 [Younes]
no error
17:59:35 [Younes]
on thing I noticed
17:59:43 [Younes]
netstat -epn | grep TIME_WAIT | wc -l
17:59:51 [Younes]
grows fast
18:00:20 [Younes]
I do end up with tousens of requests on port 3000
18:00:38 [ruaok]
I take it you're running the dev server then?
18:01:04 [Younes]
my local server
18:01:07 [Younes]
in slavemod
18:01:08 [Younes]
y
18:02:01 [ruaok]
if you're going to make a lot of requests to the server you may consider installing nginx and fastcgi and running the server that way.
18:02:30 [Younes]
any notes I can follow?
18:02:47 [Younes]
or doc?
18:03:35 [ruaok]
I don't think we've officially published anything on how to do this. :(
18:04:08 [ruaok]
no wait, our scripts are all in git.
18:04:10 [ruaok]
one sec.
18:04:18 [Younes]
tkx
18:04:37 [ruaok]
http://git.musicbrainz.org/gitweb/?p=musicbrainz-server.git;a=tree;f=admin/nginx;h=1e9dceee923817f308b2dae60638401992974eeb;hb=HEAD
18:04:42 [kepstin]
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18:05:02 [ruaok]
nginx.conf is what we use in production.
18:05:19 [Younes]
Nice
18:05:22 [ruaok]
you'll have to install a few more perl modules....
18:05:27 [Younes]
I'll give it a try
18:05:29 [Younes]
hehehe
18:05:31 [Younes]
installed a load
18:05:38 [Younes]
so, a couple more is okey:)
18:05:41 [ruaok]
whats a couple more then? :)
18:05:42 [ruaok]
lol
18:05:58 [Younes]
I'm down to 140 rpms built
18:06:03 [Younes]
so, I'll survie
18:06:08 [Younes]
tkx
18:06:11 [Younes]
I'll try this
18:23:19 [ocharles]
* ocharles waves
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19:13:43 [dubwai]
anyone can help me to convert 222293 to 3:42 with XSLT
19:14:06 [kepstin]
if you're using XSLT, I think you're beyond all help ;)
19:18:18 [warp]
dubwai: hm, does stuff like <xsl:value-of select="$length mod x"/> work?
19:18:36 [warp]
(from http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/05/07/xsltmath.html )
19:19:04 [warp]
(and I'm afk now, back tomorrow or maybe later today)
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19:25:23 [dubwai]
thx warp
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20:15:08 [ehrgeiz]
:o kazaa lists ISRCs
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20:27:59 [VxJasonxV]
kazaa is still around?
20:28:29 [nikki]
itunes also embeds isrcs in the files you can download
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20:39:08 [jessew]
nikki: do you know what happened to the old AR link phrases with the transition to NGS?
20:39:15 [nikki]
hi
20:39:36 [jessew]
nikki: hi. sorry for not introducing myself. ;-)
20:42:07 [nikki]
one of the old link phrases isn't used at all now, the other is only used when adding/editing a relationship and when displaying the edit
20:42:33 [nikki]
if you have any ideas of how we could display the new link phrases on the wiki, I'd be interested :)
20:43:14 [jessew]
hm. where are they stored in the database? (actually, is there documentation of the database structure of ARs anywhere?)
20:43:23 [jessew]
they -> the link phrases
20:43:38 [nikki]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Image:ngs-ars.png
20:43:43 [jessew]
checking
20:43:57 [nikki]
they're in link_type
20:43:58 [nikki]
hmm
20:44:38 [nikki]
in link_phrase, reverse_link_phrase and short_link_phrase. short_link_phrase is *actually* the long link phrase :P
20:47:24 [jessew]
arghghh.
20:47:31 [nikki]
arghghh?
20:47:49 [jessew]
just a response to your comment about short_link_phrase being the longer one.
20:48:04 [nikki]
well we originally got rid of the old ones completely
20:48:19 [nikki]
but then we realised we needed it for the places I already mentioned
20:48:34 [nikki]
so we hijacked the mostly unused short link phrase until we can fix it :)
20:50:25 [nikki]
(it was only used on the artist relationships tab and contained the same thing as the relationship name anyway)
20:51:18 [jessew]
So, I'm going to make a page http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/?title=Advanced_Relationships/Structure to document what each of the tables and fields in that diagram actually do (unless that already exists somewhere)?
20:52:27 [warp]
nikki: ooh ISRCs in itunes files?
20:52:31 [nikki]
warp: yes
20:52:40 [warp]
nikki: we should have picard submit them and perform lookups using them.
20:52:55 [nikki]
we don't have anything that says what exactly each field in the database schema means afaik. but I would think that belongs on some database schema page
20:53:54 [reosarevok]
ISRCs in iTunes files?
20:53:57 [nikki]
yes
20:53:57 [reosarevok]
Do they have them?
20:54:01 [nikki]
yes...
20:54:04 [reosarevok]
I mean
20:54:05 [reosarevok]
Always?
20:54:07 [reosarevok]
Or just some times?
20:54:10 [nikki]
not always
20:54:28 [nikki]
I don't know the exact percentage (it's not like I use itunes)
20:54:30 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok agrees with warp
20:54:52 [reosarevok]
bitmap, could you take a look at that if you have time and feel like it? :)
20:55:16 [warp]
* warp recently purchased some music on itunes.
20:55:33 [bitmap]
hm, what am I looking at?
20:55:53 [reosarevok]
Making Picard submit ISRCs embedded in iTunes downloads
20:56:00 [warp]
(but I did that on my ipod, so don't have the files yet)
20:56:07 [jessew]
nikki: where are the database schema pages? ;-)
20:57:26 [nikki]
jessew: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Next_Generation_Schema but we don't have anything for the exact contents of the tables yet :)
20:58:57 [kepstin]
bitmap: are there any changes in your relationships userscript from the testing one you sent me, and the new update on userscripts.org?
20:59:37 [bitmap]
I don't remember, but probably because I always make small changes at the last second :P
20:59:50 [jessew]
nikki: OK, so should I rename the new page to Next_Generation_Schema/Advanced Relationship ?
20:59:51 [kepstin]
heh. Guess I'll just grab it anyways, then.
21:00:08 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok does the same
21:00:12 [reosarevok]
Is there a changelog?
21:00:42 [bitmap]
the changelog is that it indents work relationships and shows other work versions
21:00:50 [reosarevok]
:)
21:00:51 [reosarevok]
Sounds nice
21:00:55 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok goes check it
21:05:37 [nikki]
jessew: I would probably use "next_generation_schema/relationships_table_structure" or something
21:06:03 [jessew]
nikki: So, it seems like there are tables for all the combinations of primary entites (i.e. the 7 objects listed in the columns of http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Category:Relationship_Family )? Is that right?
21:06:19 [jessew]
nikki: OK, I'll use a name like that
21:06:59 [nikki]
yes, all the table cells in http://musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype are different tables
21:07:16 [bitmap]
kepstin: well if you're curious the only thing I changed was making the cookies last 1000 days instead of 14
21:07:56 [nikki]
kepstin: btw, I took your idea and something Shepard said and mostly got rid of the header on the site :P
21:14:27 [nikki]
kepstin: but I didn't actually change most of the rest of the page, I just have http://lmfao.org.uk/miniheader.png :P
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21:26:16 [jessew]
nikki (and others): http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Next_Generation_Schema/Advanced_Relationships_Table_Structure <- is this correct?
21:26:35 [nikki]
can I remove advanced from the name?
21:26:42 [jessew]
I'm confused by the AR attribute structure -- is there documentation on that somewhere?
21:26:58 [jessew]
nikki: isn't the name of the feature still "Advanced Relationships"?
21:27:15 [nikki]
they've never been called advanced relationships on the site
21:27:49 [jessew]
er -- what is http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Advanced_Relationship then?
21:27:54 [nikki]
that's the wiki
21:28:21 [nikki]
I have no idea why we ended up with the database using one term, the site using another and the wiki using a third
21:28:51 [jessew]
arghgh. So the name of the *same* feature is Advanced Relationship on the wiki, Relationship on the site, and link in the database? Really?
21:28:54 [jessew]
Arghghg.
21:28:56 [nikki]
yes
21:29:13 [jessew]
well, this is on the wiki, so it should use the wiki term, then, no? ;-)
21:29:32 [jessew]
feel free to change it
21:29:35 [reosarevok]
Or we could kill the term in the wiki, adapt to the page and be coherent
21:29:36 [reosarevok]
:p
21:29:38 [nikki]
well there's also pages in the wiki that call them "relationships" :P
21:29:49 [jessew]
reosarevok: yeah, that would be nice.
21:30:20 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is 17 performance relationships away from finishing adding the Artek catalog :)
21:30:21 [nikki]
like http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Category:Relationship_Type is not "Category:Advanced_Relationship_Type" (and I didn't create it, so it's not just me :D)
21:30:38 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop has always known them as 'advanced relationships', no matter what the various sites called them :/
21:30:56 [jessew]
hm. we do seem to have a problem here.
21:31:08 [nikki]
kepstin: and what are relationships?
21:31:29 [kepstin-laptop]
nikki: advanced relationships being done by a lazy typist ;)
21:31:40 [jessew]
the advantage to Advanced Relationship (and it's acronym, AR) is it's somewhat more distinctive than the other two alteratives...
21:31:49 [nikki]
kepstin-laptop: nah, lazy people write "ARs" :P
21:31:59 [kepstin-laptop]
well, true.
21:32:29 [kepstin-laptop]
but yeah; relationships just seems like too general of a term.
21:32:36 [ehrgeiz]
why are some works duplicated on the artists worklist-page? i just dont see a difference between works that are listed under 'composer' and works that are not in a special 'category'
21:32:58 [kepstin-laptop]
ehrgeiz: works that aren't in a special category are ones that were performed by that artist.
21:33:01 [reosarevok]
That
21:33:03 [kepstin-laptop]
they really should be labelled as such :/
21:33:15 [reosarevok]
Which, following CSG, are all of them for classical composers
21:33:18 [reosarevok]
Thus the duplication
21:34:13 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. I guess performed is the wrong work
21:34:39 [kepstin-laptop]
the works that aren't in a special category is the ones that have that artist listed in the artist credit on at least one recording of the work.
21:35:44 [jessew]
now our terminological confusion is at least documented: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Advanced_Relationship#Terminology
21:36:17 [jessew]
so, about AR attributes...
21:36:40 [nikki]
jessew: btw, modpending is actually edits_pending in the database. it seems the diagram needs updating
21:37:08 [jessew]
argh.
21:37:12 [jessew]
Good to know.
21:37:27 [nikki]
link_type and l_*_* also have a last_updated column, link has a created column
21:37:39 [jessew]
nikki: modpending (or edits_pending) -- is my description of what it *does* accurate?
21:38:21 [ehrgeiz]
oh-kay.. so works from pop releases where the composer and lyricist is not the 'known' performing artist will still be listed under the artists workpage; thats the purpose of this i guess?
21:38:36 [nikki]
jessew: it's actually a count of the open edits, so not quite a flag
21:38:36 [kepstin-laptop]
ehrgeiz: exactly.
21:38:50 [jessew]
nikki: I'll correct that.
21:39:08 [reosarevok]
So wait, are we getting stuff documented?
21:39:10 [reosarevok]
Correctly?
21:39:14 [kepstin-laptop]
ehrgeiz: this is particularly useful for songs performed by a band, but written by members of the bad.
21:39:15 [reosarevok]
mind=blown
21:39:17 [kepstin-laptop]
band*
21:39:33 [nikki]
reosarevok: feel free to help :P
21:40:00 [jessew]
reosarevok: well, I wouldn't go so far as to claim *correctness* -- but I hope I'm being at least pleasently imaginative...
21:40:39 [ehrgeiz]
kepstin-laptop: makes sense now, thx. one more reason to change artist credits from composer to performer on recordings.
21:40:49 [ehrgeiz]
for classical
21:40:50 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok agrees
21:43:06 [jessew]
is Lukas (the guy who made the diagram) still around -- does he have the graphviz source available?
21:43:19 [nikki]
* nikki prods luks
21:43:29 [nikki]
I think it's actually some program he wrote himself
21:43:43 [jessew]
hah.
21:43:57 [jessew]
luks: please do update the diagram
21:47:27 [jessew]
nikki: so, what is the link_attribute table do, exactly?
21:51:21 [nikki]
relationships can have multiple attributes. so guest performed violin would have one row in 'link' and two rows in 'link_attribute'
21:54:28 [jessew]
I should really just download a copy of the database and poke around myself...
21:55:49 [nikki]
that's how I learnt everything I know about it :)
22:31:17 [ehrgeiz]
* ehrgeiz is hooked to ebay again :/
22:31:24 [reosarevok]
:p
22:31:35 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok bought 6 Spongebob plushes last time that happened
22:32:08 [ehrgeiz]
* ehrgeiz wants some 70-80 stereo amp :3
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23:43:56 [CatCat]
RARG
23:44:51 [CatCat]
i can't get wine to work on on ubuntu karmic 9.10.. it wont dl
23:45:13 [CatCat]
it keeps crying about dependencies. so i followed webistes thing
23:45:22 [CatCat]
but i honestly.. it wont dl it's dependencies?
23:45:34 [CatCat]
the package is unhappy
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