IRC log of musicbrainz on 2011-10-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

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06:47:55 [CatCat]
drsaunde: hey
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Wizzcat: ping
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09:45:10 [reosarevok]
Hi!
09:45:19 [reosarevok]
Anyone has good ideas for an updated wording for http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Medley_Relationship_Type ? :)
09:45:32 [reosarevok]
(now that it is work-work and recording-work)
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10:30:44 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok looks at prices of flights to Spain for Christmas and considers having the Christmas dinner via Skype instead
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12:30:02 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok looks at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Wikidata
12:30:21 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok hopes somebody with better understanding of what it means can explain it to him
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13:06:54 [reosarevok]
voiceinsideyou1, you have some experience with new users failing to understand stuff, so maybe you can help
13:07:02 [reosarevok]
Do you think this is clear enough for a new user? http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Reports_description
13:08:23 [hrglgrmpf]
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13:08:57 [reosarevok]
Hi hrglgrmpf! congrats for the autoeditorship ;)
13:11:59 [hrglgrmpf]
reosarevok: thanks :-)!
13:12:28 [hrglgrmpf]
I got it on the same day I handed in my m.thesis, double good :-)
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13:17:28 [hrglgrmpf]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15379341
13:17:47 [hrglgrmpf]
Are we supposed to link to rateyourmusic.com? what is the policly regarding this?
13:17:54 [hrglgrmpf]
I hardly know the site...
13:18:30 [reosarevok]
At the moment, we have no good way to do it
13:18:40 [reosarevok]
It's relatively trustable though
13:19:42 [reosarevok]
On the other hand
13:20:01 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/cec2f56b-138d-488d-9544-ac37003ae3ec/relationships is clearly overkill
13:24:57 [hrglgrmpf]
hmm, but without policy I don't feel like no-voting...
13:26:14 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok could see a reson to vote against it because they seem to be medium-level links
13:26:15 [reosarevok]
:p
13:26:17 [reosarevok]
*reason
13:28:33 [kepstin-laptop]
that link to the blog post isn't really appropriate; it's not a discography site, and links to an illegal download.
13:30:19 [kepstin-laptop]
oh, it's a bootleg album anyways?
13:30:23 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm.
13:31:22 [kepstin-laptop]
the rollingstonesnet page says it got an official release...
13:32:00 [reosarevok]
Maybe they call "official" to anything with actual CDs instead of a torrent?
13:34:34 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. no it's apparently just a well-done release by a bootleg label.
13:39:11 [reosarevok]
Can anyone find what broke here? http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Member_of_Band_Relationship_Type
13:39:17 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok doesn't get the template
13:40:26 [ianmcorvidae]
apparently capitalization matters
13:40:38 [ianmcorvidae]
I fixed it
13:41:27 [reosarevok]
:)
13:41:31 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok hates templates sometimes
13:46:17 [kepstin-laptop]
... it magically works now.
13:47:22 [kepstin-laptop]
my guess is that there were some inconsistencies after the page move that took a while to get cleared up (cache maybe?)
13:47:25 [ianmcorvidae]
kepstin-laptop: I edited it, if you're talking about the template page
13:47:43 [ianmcorvidae]
the type=Member Of Band line had to be changed to type=Member of Band
13:47:51 [ianmcorvidae]
in line with the capitalization change in the page title
13:48:22 [kepstin-laptop]
huh, I thought I was looking at if after you edited it
13:48:40 [kepstin-laptop]
guess I just got confused, you must have made the change while I was looking at the page history.
13:53:03 [kepstin-laptop]
that was the first thing I thought of, but when I looked at the page history, I saw that the 'type' had already been updated, so I was wondering what else the problem could be :)
14:19:55 [luks]
heh
14:20:01 [luks]
who added this http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/?title=MusicBrainz_Summit/11/Session_Notes&curid=6461&diff=48810&oldid=48742 ? :P
14:20:56 [CallerNo6]
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14:21:23 [reosarevok]
Surprisingly enough, not me :)
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14:26:19 [derwin]
huh, last.fm "might solve their artist ambiguiaty problem soon"
14:26:28 [reosarevok]
Well
14:26:35 [reosarevok]
They're now adapting to MusicBrainz NGS
14:26:59 [reosarevok]
Which might help them too
14:27:22 [reosarevok]
But we'll see if they manage do to it...
14:27:48 [derwin]
hurrr? LDAP for web service logins?
14:27:56 [derwin]
* derwin comprende pas
14:29:05 [derwin]
"allow grouping edits together and bulk submitting them" = PLS
14:30:19 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm, web service logins would be best done with something like oauth, so the application/website never gets to see the user's password
14:30:26 [derwin]
re : tracks vs recordings "do we add further levels of abstraction" - I vote "no"
14:30:57 [derwin]
I'm also happy about the deprecation of trac and subversion
14:31:11 [derwin]
and I think gitweb -> github is probably a win
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14:31:33 [derwin]
" Micah is offering genre data based on wikipedia "
14:31:42 [derwin]
I know of a piece of code which scrapes wikipedia for genre names
14:31:47 [reosarevok]
The level of abstraction problem is really finding a balance between "what models the data better" and "what will be too hard for people to grasp"
14:31:48 [derwin]
(it's from the guy who did the beets tagger)
14:32:06 [derwin]
reosarevok: vs. "what makes the database query model insane" too I think :)
14:33:07 [reosarevok]
I guess that depends on how you introduce the new levels of abstraction database-wise :)
14:33:09 [reosarevok]
But yeah
14:33:41 [derwin]
" Conclusion: High quality is the protected flag, default quality is default, low quality goes away "
14:33:46 [derwin]
+1
14:34:28 [reosarevok]
CallerNo6, ping
14:35:13 [CallerNo6]
hola
14:35:26 [derwin]
"initial date on release group" seems reasonable
14:35:27 [reosarevok]
I was looking at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Merge_Artists_Edit
14:35:30 [derwin]
given reissues and etc etc
14:35:55 [reosarevok]
derwin, I'd say the same, but surprisingly some people were like "No! People should just add the original release instead!"
14:36:13 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok wonders if said people know how hard it is to find the original release tracklist sometimes
14:36:15 [derwin]
yeah, I mean... that doesn't seem completely insane.. except..
14:36:52 [derwin]
it almost seems like non-sequitur
14:36:58 [reosarevok]
CallerNo6, I was wondering if you could use whatever you feel is useful there for your "destructive edits" thing
14:37:08 [derwin]
like, "the 'first' release date'
14:37:12 [reosarevok]
Because I feel a "How to Merge Artists" is overkill
14:37:16 [derwin]
is meaningless if people don't include any release dates
14:37:28 [derwin]
how do you sort a release with no release date in that case, etc?
14:37:43 [derwin]
hrm. interesting issue. I'll ponder on it in the back of my head. I can see some validity to both sides
14:38:01 [reosarevok]
(we had a "How to Merge Artists" before though)
14:43:03 [CallerNo6]
reosarevok, I'll take a look tonight (PDT)
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15:09:30 [ncybernee]
Need a hand with the freeDB mirror
15:09:59 [ncybernee]
loaded info for two CDs about ten hours ago and they're not coming across:
15:10:03 [ncybernee]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/124dd30f-5471-443f-a40c-cbcaddaf1317
15:10:10 [ncybernee]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/697bd42b-885b-48fa-be74-d7f844e6ebbf
15:14:02 [reosarevok]
ruaok, ijabz: is the indexing working?
15:14:25 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok added artists yesterday that the indexed search still can't find, and guesses ncybernee's problem might also be related to that
15:15:20 [ruaok]
currently I see not reports that things are not working.
15:15:22 [ruaok]
no
15:15:31 [ijabz]
hi reosarevok I've no idea I do not have access to the server
15:16:12 [ijabz]
ruaok: no?
15:16:30 [ruaok]
s/not/no
15:17:07 [reosarevok]
Hmm
15:17:51 [CatCat]
gey rob
15:17:55 [CatCat]
hey even
15:17:58 [reosarevok]
If you search for artist "red fuego" do you get indexed hits?
15:18:15 [ruaok]
hey catcat
15:18:34 [ruaok]
nope
15:19:07 [reosarevok]
That was added with this edit http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15429908
15:19:12 [reosarevok]
"2011-10-24 15:21 EEST"
15:19:23 [reosarevok]
So it should definitely be there if the indexes were running correctly
15:19:47 [CatCat]
what is eest in cest?
15:19:54 [ijabz]
ruaok: Any output from index building indicating error ?
15:20:11 [CatCat]
v6lur: hvor er du fra?
15:20:17 [ruaok]
ijabz: negative.
15:20:30 [v6lur]
jeg er fra Estland :P
15:20:36 [ruaok]
reosarevok: bug me about this later once I've woken up and had caffeine
15:20:37 [CatCat]
oi
15:20:43 [reosarevok]
Ok
15:20:45 [CatCat]
men forstår du norks da?
15:20:46 [ijabz]
Or can you try searching each search server , in car problem with one of them ?
15:20:48 [CatCat]
norsk*
15:21:05 [reosarevok]
CatCat, EEST is one hour more than Norwegian time
15:21:10 [CatCat]
gm
15:21:14 [v6lur]
ja, jeg snakker lite norsk
15:21:16 [CatCat]
hm even
15:21:23 [CatCat]
kult
15:21:49 [CatCat]
jeg skrev I norsk til han varmedusten forde han klager på at folk skriver englesk til ham
15:22:01 [v6lur]
ah, du såg notaten min :P
15:23:04 [CatCat]
men dt er nå så, hans problem hvar visst at "folk ikke vet hvordan det er å komunisere på et språk som ikke her hoved/morspråket sitt"
15:23:13 [CatCat]
v6lur: ja det gjorde jeg
15:23:33 [v6lur]
a så... jeg undrethvorfor gjorde du det :P
15:23:34 [CatCat]
men er nå så, så skulle jeg brukt engleks a like vel
15:23:39 [CatCat]
:)
15:23:45 [CatCat]
ja
15:23:50 [reosarevok]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Mirror_Server probably needs updating
15:24:08 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok imagines "Bandwidth requirements for a mirror are currently hard to judge -- we're just getting started setting up mirrors and our client software is not fully ready to take advantage of our mirrors yet." has changed somehow?
15:24:10 [CatCat]
han har linked til dansk wikimedia, så jeg underforstok at han kan litt?
15:25:04 [ruaok]
huh
15:25:06 [v6lur]
jeg vet ikke... jeg tykker at han snakker "plattdüütsch" som morsmål
15:25:07 [CatCat]
men òg for å tirre ham litt? idk, jeg har ikke fått noe svar, og jeg svarer ikke hvis han begynner med psuedonym tulle sitt
15:25:10 [ruaok]
cart man is doing weird stuff
15:25:11 [ruaok]
http://stats.musicbrainz.org/mrtg/drraw/drraw.cgi?Mode=view;Template=1196205794.8081;Base=%2Fvar%2Fwww%2Fmrtg%2F%2Fcartman_load.rrd
15:25:20 [ruaok]
seems that it missed an update cycle.
15:25:32 [CatCat]
hmm, kanskje warp skall prøve å snakke til ham?
15:25:46 [v6lur]
:P
15:25:55 [CatCat]
han gjør jo ikke vandaliserende edits...
15:26:00 [CatCat]
for det meste
15:26:23 [CatCat]
estland er bra
15:26:49 [CatCat]
it reminds me of that SatW comic.. with the estalnd personification wanting i nin the part? he
15:26:50 [CatCat]
h
15:26:59 [CatCat]
guh..
15:27:15 [CatCat]
jeg burde kanskje holde meg til norsk? hah
15:27:30 [v6lur]
ja, jeg husker det :P
15:27:34 [CatCat]
:D
15:28:26 [v6lur]
synd, at SatW oppdateres ikke så ofte
15:28:47 [CatCat]
ja, det er rett rolikt (for å bruke svensk)
15:29:07 [reosarevok]
ruaok, do we have any mirror servers at the moment?
15:29:25 [CatCat]
hm
15:29:34 [reosarevok]
(I see the link in http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Mirror_Server redirects to Classic)
15:29:51 [CatCat]
men nu må eg dusje
15:29:57 [CatCat]
ha det bra
15:32:31 [v6lur]
ja, og jeg må gå også. ha det bra!
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17:03:52 [jesus2099]
Are there any mailing list users here ?
17:04:52 [jesus2099]
Any forum users then ?
17:05:15 [jesus2099]
or even… IRC ?
17:05:46 [jesus2099]
Oh warp you’re here ? (in the list at least)
17:06:27 [jesus2099]
k
17:06:29 [jesus2099]
ic
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19:30:22 [kepstin-laptop]
reosarevok: it would be nice if the sections under http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Reports_description would link to the individual reports, as well :)
19:30:42 [reosarevok]
kepstin-laptop, the idea is to move each to the report page
19:30:47 [reosarevok]
Not to have them as a wiki page
19:30:55 [reosarevok]
This is just a placeholder
19:31:03 [reosarevok]
Because I had to write them somewhere
19:31:21 [kepstin-laptop]
ah. well, in that case, carry on :)
19:31:44 [reosarevok]
(and I can't just edit the report pages, sadly :( )
19:32:22 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. you know what would be a neat feature? being able to mark an entity as excluded from a reports - e.g. because you have checked it and found that the report doesn't apply.
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19:32:37 [reosarevok]
kepstin-laptop, we mentioned that on the summit
19:32:45 [reosarevok]
Also filtering them by subscribed entities
19:32:54 [reosarevok]
(which should be easier so I hope they do it sooner)
19:33:25 [ianmcorvidae]
reosarevok: you should really learn how to code, you seem to have more time than anyone else :P
19:33:50 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae, that's because I don't use my time to learn how to code! :p
19:33:55 [CatCat]
XD
19:33:58 [ianmcorvidae]
hah
19:34:01 [ianmcorvidae]
fair enough :P
19:35:06 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae, also, I actually submitted one patch this week :p
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19:35:28 [reosarevok]
Ok, it is copy-paste stuff that adds 7 lines of code
19:35:36 [reosarevok]
BUT IT IS A PATCH AIN'T IT :D :p
19:35:52 [ianmcorvidae]
fair enough :P
19:36:26 [reosarevok]
I guess seeing there's a week until release
19:36:42 [reosarevok]
I can try to add the report descriptions myself and make that my SECOND patch! :p
19:36:58 [CatCat]
psh
19:37:16 [reosarevok]
(yeah, ok, more copypaste stuff, but someone has to do it)
19:37:18 [CatCat]
* CatCat is still proud of his icons thoguh
19:38:06 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop has a week full of midterms, but hasn't given up on his music player yet.
19:38:19 [navap]
ianmcorvidae: Nice timing :)
19:38:28 [CatCat]
that being said, I wonder if ruaok needs a "acustid"sp? icon, i'm on that
19:38:29 [ianmcorvidae]
navap: heh, yeah
19:38:45 [CatCat]
*if he does, i'm on that
19:38:54 [kepstin-laptop]
CatCat: AcoustID.
19:39:08 [CatCat]
acoustid, ok
19:40:17 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. the logo used on http://acoustid.org/ is just a red bold italic 'id' :/
19:41:13 [kepstin-laptop]
looks like the daily additions of acoustids has risen since the new picard release :)
19:42:06 [ianmcorvidae]
unsurprisingly, I'd say :)
19:43:13 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop went to near the top of the contributors list, thanks to scanning his entire collection a couple days ago :/
19:44:19 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae is (relatively) pretty high at 54th overall
19:44:20 [reosarevok]
Hmm
19:44:29 [reosarevok]
Zvooq = 8430451?
19:44:31 [reosarevok]
Nice!
19:44:51 [ianmcorvidae]
I also scanned my entire collection at least twice in the very early stages of acoustid's existence
19:44:54 [ianmcorvidae]
thus :)
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21:08:28 [reosarevok]
Anyone here uses "Add cluster as a release"?
21:08:48 [reosarevok]
(and could make a small wiki page or something explaining how to use it for new users?)
21:09:12 [hrglgrmpf]
I'm using it
21:09:28 [reosarevok]
Alternatively, you can tell this guy: http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?pid=15852#p15852
21:09:40 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok has no idea how it works as he has never used it
21:10:22 [hrglgrmpf]
uh, I can't speak Spaning (?)
21:10:24 [hrglgrmpf]
Spanish
21:10:33 [reosarevok]
It's in English under it
21:10:35 [reosarevok]
Well, kind of
21:10:36 [reosarevok]
:p
21:10:50 [reosarevok]
(his English is clearly not too good, but if the instructions are clear I hope he'll get it)
21:11:27 [hrglgrmpf]
how can you not use "Add cluster as release"? Means: what do you use when you add releases?
21:11:39 [reosarevok]
I go to the page
21:11:42 [reosarevok]
And add it
21:11:44 [hrglgrmpf]
"Copy on clip board"?
21:11:56 [hrglgrmpf]
ah, I mean for completely new releases...
21:12:09 [reosarevok]
I usually add releases from the internet way before I actually have them
21:12:21 [hrglgrmpf]
k
21:12:24 [reosarevok]
(then just make sure nothing was wrong on the artist-provided info)
21:12:32 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok mostly streams his music anyway lately :)
21:15:50 [hrglgrmpf]
it is very easy to use, I think adding a wiki page might be not necessary
21:16:14 [hrglgrmpf]
right click on a cluster, then "Add cluster as release" from context menu
21:16:27 [nikki]
* nikki was thinking tat
21:16:27 [nikki]
that too
21:16:32 [hrglgrmpf]
is he using the correct version of Picard and the plugin?
21:16:35 [nikki]
and happy auto-editing, hrglgrmpf ;)
21:16:45 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: thanks :-)
21:16:57 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: it looks so strange to not have 20+ pages of open edits
21:17:00 [reosarevok]
hrglgrmpf, he should be, but I'm not sure whether he gets clusters well yey
21:17:02 [reosarevok]
*yet
21:17:05 [reosarevok]
But if it's just that
21:17:08 [reosarevok]
I can tell him in Spanish :)
21:18:03 [hrglgrmpf]
yes, the only thing which can be misunderstood is that it only works on clusters... so for example not on already recognized releases in the right tab
21:18:22 [hrglgrmpf]
and also not on a collection of un-clustered tracks
21:18:27 [reosarevok]
Ok :)
21:18:35 [hrglgrmpf]
and to cluster tracks, they have to all have the same album set
21:19:12 [hrglgrmpf]
so to use cluster-as-release, you may need another tagger first (e.g. easytag) to set the album (and other tags)
21:21:23 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: I got the impression that "gender=other" is only meaningful for persons identifying other than male/female, not e.g. for companies (who have no gender)
21:21:40 [nikki]
* nikki would agree
21:21:41 [reosarevok]
heh
21:21:47 [reosarevok]
The "none" problem again!
21:21:55 [nikki]
I don't think I would set type=other, gender=other
21:21:56 [hrglgrmpf]
reosarevok: exactly :-)
21:22:08 [reosarevok]
on the other hand, if we don't add "none"
21:22:15 [reosarevok]
People might pretty well use "other"
21:22:21 [reosarevok]
Because "none" is neither female nor male
21:22:23 [hrglgrmpf]
yes
21:22:26 [hrglgrmpf]
http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=gender%3Aother&type=artist&limit=100&advanced=1
21:22:32 [reosarevok]
So, should we add none? :p
21:23:13 [hrglgrmpf]
and it is not some uninformed user, but an (very well informed) autoeditor who added the company with gender=other
21:24:23 [reosarevok]
Hmm
21:24:31 [reosarevok]
No longer there
21:24:42 [hrglgrmpf]
it would be cool if gender=none could be special UI-wise
21:24:50 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok facepalms at Tony Bennet & Mariah Carey
21:24:55 [reosarevok]
Special in what way?
21:24:58 [hrglgrmpf]
like just a gray field
21:25:20 [hrglgrmpf]
not just another option "none"
21:25:30 [hrglgrmpf]
I don't know :-)
21:25:30 [reosarevok]
Hmm
21:25:33 [reosarevok]
Dunno
21:25:40 [reosarevok]
I like the old text dropdowns
21:25:48 [reosarevok]
But I am kinda oldfashioned
21:25:48 [reosarevok]
:p
21:29:11 [nikki]
well, do we want to distinguish between unknown gender and no gender?
21:29:41 [nikki]
or should we just add a character artist type and prevent genders for type=other entirely? :P
21:29:58 [nikki]
* nikki decides she likes the latter more...
21:30:28 [reosarevok]
...
21:30:43 [reosarevok]
Doesn't that imply moving most of the current "other" entities to "character"?
21:30:54 [reosarevok]
Seems like much more work somehow
21:30:59 [nikki]
I suppose that depends what most of the current other entries are :)
21:31:07 [reosarevok]
Also, what's a "character"?
21:31:34 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok has this issue where this guy has a lot of performance names, which are all supposed to be different animals (or rather furries) which do electronic music
21:31:46 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok has no idea what to do of that
21:31:59 [reosarevok]
(apart from saying "wtf that guy is mad" that is)
21:32:09 [nikki]
anything under type=other which represents something vaguely person-like? :P
21:32:24 [ianmcorvidae]
anything under type=other that can have an assigned gender, perhaps
21:32:47 [nikki]
hm, 263 artists with type=other
21:34:13 [hrglgrmpf]
I don't know if we should further split type=other...
21:34:34 [hrglgrmpf]
there are so few artists compared to person/group...
21:35:09 [hrglgrmpf]
but I don't have anything against disabling gender for "other"
21:35:16 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok can already see somebody coming and asking to make "type=orchestra" and "type=ensemble" out of group
21:36:05 [ianmcorvidae]
well, I mean, is there anything wrong with doing that?
21:36:06 [hrglgrmpf]
yes... it is too subjective... I just wanted type=other for edge cases where type=person and type=group doesn't fit
21:36:34 [hrglgrmpf]
no, not at all (if you mean disabling gender for type=other)
21:36:57 [hrglgrmpf]
I just didn't want to be too restrictive in my RFC and see how type=other will be used
21:37:06 [hrglgrmpf]
and then see if we need all attributes
21:37:42 [hrglgrmpf]
begin-date can be useful for companies, or the start for an artist that is e.g. a TV series
21:37:52 [nikki]
hrglgrmpf: but there are some valid uses of gender for type=other though
21:38:29 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: yes...
21:38:33 [hrglgrmpf]
thats the problem
21:38:51 [hrglgrmpf]
but maybe a boy-group could be gender=male :-)?
21:39:28 [nikki]
we already discussed that on the style list and decided groups shouldn't have genders
21:41:23 [nikki]
(after all, the members have genders...)
21:41:44 [hrglgrmpf]
yes, I fully agree, it was a bad example
21:42:15 [hrglgrmpf]
the question is, if gender=other should be allowed as "none-type" for artists where gender is not applicable
21:43:01 [nikki]
it doesn't seem right to me to have two definitions of gender=other
21:43:01 [hrglgrmpf]
or if it is just a neutral word for something like "transgender", that can not be used as n/a type
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21:44:16 [reosarevok]
nikki, it is technically just one definition
21:44:21 [reosarevok]
"not male, not female"
21:44:49 [hrglgrmpf]
the style guide says "Use "other" if the artist identifies as something other than "male" or "female"."
21:45:24 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is sure a label doesn't identify as male or female
21:45:34 [reosarevok]
(or any company)
21:45:35 [nikki]
but when you use it for type=other, it means both "has a gender which isn't represented by male/female" and "gender is utterly irrelevant here"
21:47:02 [nikki]
so imo it should either be type=none or just left unset
21:53:48 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: agreed! How could http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Artist be changed to reflect this?
21:54:18 [hrglgrmpf]
I'm not good enough with English I guess :-(
21:55:29 [hrglgrmpf]
"The other type is meant as a gender which isn't represented by male or female" ... is that enough to disable the n/a option?
21:57:24 [nikki]
hmm... "... if the artist has a gender but identifies ..." maybe?
21:57:53 [hrglgrmpf]
maybe... does that cover the uses of type=other with gender=male/female?
21:58:38 [hrglgrmpf]
(like a electronic female voice). I guess so, luckily in English there is the gender/sex difference
21:58:50 [nikki]
hehe, hatsune miku
21:58:58 [nikki]
(who is set to female, of course)
21:59:11 [ianmcorvidae]
"The 'other' gender option is meant to represent a gender that is neither male nor female, and is not intended for use with entities for which the concept of gender is illogical, such as companies"
21:59:18 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: yes, exactly!
21:59:20 [ianmcorvidae]
er s/a gender/any gender/
21:59:22 [ianmcorvidae]
or something
21:59:53 [hrglgrmpf]
ianmcorvidae: also good!
22:00:01 [nikki]
well, you could argue that hatsune miku, not being a living thinking being, can't actually identify as female, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people from setting genders for things like that, so I guess it would work
22:01:53 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok likes ian's wording
22:02:34 [ianmcorvidae]
I hang out with too many genderqueer people, clearly, I'm worried about people being like "the concept of gender applied to ANYTHING is illogical, nothing should have a gender set!"
22:03:11 [nikki]
* nikki has no problems with ian's wording either
22:04:03 [hrglgrmpf]
should I file an RFC explaining the "other"/"none" issue and asking for adding the ian's paragraph?
22:04:13 [nikki]
please do
22:04:14 [hrglgrmpf]
ianmcorvidae: or do you want to do it?
22:04:18 [ianmcorvidae]
nah, you do it
22:04:36 [ianmcorvidae]
I'm glad to pitch in on IRC but I'll leave RFC-ing to others :)
22:06:18 [reosarevok]
Coward... :p
22:06:30 [ianmcorvidae]
pretty much :)
22:07:04 [nikki]
hrglgrmpf: btw, the other direction text for the voice actor thing isn't really relevant, it's not stored in the db anywere
22:07:06 [nikki]
anywhere.
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22:07:34 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: thanks, I just wanted to ask
22:07:42 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: so "performed the voice of" is good?
22:07:53 [nikki]
those templates really need updating...
22:07:53 [hrglgrmpf]
it is not present-tense, does that matter?
22:07:55 [nikki]
* nikki shudders
22:08:15 [nikki]
I think it's fine
22:08:26 [hrglgrmpf]
so I can send the RFV :-)?
22:09:06 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae, feel like doing some template-updatin'?
22:09:09 [reosarevok]
:p
22:09:32 [ianmcorvidae]
heh, probably not THOSE ones
22:09:46 [ianmcorvidae]
(more to the point, not within the 40 minutes I have before I head off for the evening)
22:10:56 [nikki]
hrglgrmpf: it seems ok, although kepstin hasn't responded to your question
22:12:41 [hrglgrmpf]
nikki: I will wait for another day then
22:14:18 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok kinda expected *someone* to say something about removing the merchandising rel
22:14:27 [reosarevok]
Even if it was just "NOOOOO I like that"
22:16:47 [nikki]
clearly nobody cares :P
22:17:02 [hrglgrmpf]
yes, don't care :-)
22:17:26 [reosarevok]
Yeah, but if nobody cares to the point of nobody +1ing it, I won't be able to RFV it either! :p
22:21:54 [hrglgrmpf]
reosarevok: really? Isn't there some default +1 after the RFC is expired?
22:22:22 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok doesn't think so. Is there any, nikki?
22:22:40 [nikki]
no
22:22:53 [nikki]
but if all else fails, I can give it a +1 myself :P
22:23:10 [reosarevok]
:)
22:23:15 [reosarevok]
Now that's the spirit
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