IRC log of musicbrainz on 2011-10-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- drsaunde: hey
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- Wizzcat: ping
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- 09:45:10 [reosarevok]
- Hi!
- 09:45:19 [reosarevok]
- Anyone has good ideas for an updated wording for http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Medley_Relationship_Type ? :)
- 09:45:32 [reosarevok]
- (now that it is work-work and recording-work)
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- 10:29:26 [reosarevok]
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- 10:30:44 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok looks at prices of flights to Spain for Christmas and considers having the Christmas dinner via Skype instead
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- 12:30:02 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok looks at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Wikidata
- 12:30:21 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok hopes somebody with better understanding of what it means can explain it to him
- 12:41:10 [the_metalgamer]
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- 13:04:56 [voiceinsideyou1]
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- 13:06:54 [reosarevok]
- voiceinsideyou1, you have some experience with new users failing to understand stuff, so maybe you can help
- 13:07:02 [reosarevok]
- Do you think this is clear enough for a new user? http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Reports_description
- 13:08:23 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 13:08:57 [reosarevok]
- Hi hrglgrmpf! congrats for the autoeditorship ;)
- 13:11:59 [hrglgrmpf]
- reosarevok: thanks :-)!
- 13:12:28 [hrglgrmpf]
- I got it on the same day I handed in my m.thesis, double good :-)
- 13:14:56 [v6lur]
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- 13:17:28 [hrglgrmpf]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15379341
- 13:17:47 [hrglgrmpf]
- Are we supposed to link to rateyourmusic.com? what is the policly regarding this?
- 13:17:54 [hrglgrmpf]
- I hardly know the site...
- 13:18:30 [reosarevok]
- At the moment, we have no good way to do it
- 13:18:40 [reosarevok]
- It's relatively trustable though
- 13:19:42 [reosarevok]
- On the other hand
- 13:20:01 [reosarevok]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/cec2f56b-138d-488d-9544-ac37003ae3ec/relationships is clearly overkill
- 13:24:57 [hrglgrmpf]
- hmm, but without policy I don't feel like no-voting...
- 13:26:14 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok could see a reson to vote against it because they seem to be medium-level links
- 13:26:15 [reosarevok]
- :p
- 13:26:17 [reosarevok]
- *reason
- 13:28:33 [kepstin-laptop]
- that link to the blog post isn't really appropriate; it's not a discography site, and links to an illegal download.
- 13:30:19 [kepstin-laptop]
- oh, it's a bootleg album anyways?
- 13:30:23 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm.
- 13:31:22 [kepstin-laptop]
- the rollingstonesnet page says it got an official release...
- 13:32:00 [reosarevok]
- Maybe they call "official" to anything with actual CDs instead of a torrent?
- 13:34:34 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. no it's apparently just a well-done release by a bootleg label.
- 13:39:11 [reosarevok]
- Can anyone find what broke here? http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Member_of_Band_Relationship_Type
- 13:39:17 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok doesn't get the template
- 13:40:26 [ianmcorvidae]
- apparently capitalization matters
- 13:40:38 [ianmcorvidae]
- I fixed it
- 13:41:27 [reosarevok]
- :)
- 13:41:31 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok hates templates sometimes
- 13:46:17 [kepstin-laptop]
- ... it magically works now.
- 13:47:22 [kepstin-laptop]
- my guess is that there were some inconsistencies after the page move that took a while to get cleared up (cache maybe?)
- 13:47:25 [ianmcorvidae]
- kepstin-laptop: I edited it, if you're talking about the template page
- 13:47:43 [ianmcorvidae]
- the type=Member Of Band line had to be changed to type=Member of Band
- 13:47:51 [ianmcorvidae]
- in line with the capitalization change in the page title
- 13:48:22 [kepstin-laptop]
- huh, I thought I was looking at if after you edited it
- 13:48:40 [kepstin-laptop]
- guess I just got confused, you must have made the change while I was looking at the page history.
- 13:53:03 [kepstin-laptop]
- that was the first thing I thought of, but when I looked at the page history, I saw that the 'type' had already been updated, so I was wondering what else the problem could be :)
- 14:19:55 [luks]
- heh
- 14:20:01 [luks]
- who added this http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/?title=MusicBrainz_Summit/11/Session_Notes&curid=6461&diff=48810&oldid=48742 ? :P
- 14:20:56 [CallerNo6]
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- 14:21:23 [reosarevok]
- Surprisingly enough, not me :)
- 14:23:34 [HeinzBoettjer]
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- 14:26:19 [derwin]
- huh, last.fm "might solve their artist ambiguiaty problem soon"
- 14:26:28 [reosarevok]
- Well
- 14:26:35 [reosarevok]
- They're now adapting to MusicBrainz NGS
- 14:26:59 [reosarevok]
- Which might help them too
- 14:27:22 [reosarevok]
- But we'll see if they manage do to it...
- 14:27:48 [derwin]
- hurrr? LDAP for web service logins?
- 14:27:56 [derwin]
- * derwin comprende pas
- 14:29:05 [derwin]
- "allow grouping edits together and bulk submitting them" = PLS
- 14:30:19 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm, web service logins would be best done with something like oauth, so the application/website never gets to see the user's password
- 14:30:26 [derwin]
- re : tracks vs recordings "do we add further levels of abstraction" - I vote "no"
- 14:30:57 [derwin]
- I'm also happy about the deprecation of trac and subversion
- 14:31:11 [derwin]
- and I think gitweb -> github is probably a win
- 14:31:22 [STalKer-X]
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- 14:31:33 [derwin]
- " Micah is offering genre data based on wikipedia "
- 14:31:42 [derwin]
- I know of a piece of code which scrapes wikipedia for genre names
- 14:31:47 [reosarevok]
- The level of abstraction problem is really finding a balance between "what models the data better" and "what will be too hard for people to grasp"
- 14:31:48 [derwin]
- (it's from the guy who did the beets tagger)
- 14:32:06 [derwin]
- reosarevok: vs. "what makes the database query model insane" too I think :)
- 14:33:07 [reosarevok]
- I guess that depends on how you introduce the new levels of abstraction database-wise :)
- 14:33:09 [reosarevok]
- But yeah
- 14:33:41 [derwin]
- " Conclusion: High quality is the protected flag, default quality is default, low quality goes away "
- 14:33:46 [derwin]
- +1
- 14:34:28 [reosarevok]
- CallerNo6, ping
- 14:35:13 [CallerNo6]
- hola
- 14:35:26 [derwin]
- "initial date on release group" seems reasonable
- 14:35:27 [reosarevok]
- I was looking at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Merge_Artists_Edit
- 14:35:30 [derwin]
- given reissues and etc etc
- 14:35:55 [reosarevok]
- derwin, I'd say the same, but surprisingly some people were like "No! People should just add the original release instead!"
- 14:36:13 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok wonders if said people know how hard it is to find the original release tracklist sometimes
- 14:36:15 [derwin]
- yeah, I mean... that doesn't seem completely insane.. except..
- 14:36:52 [derwin]
- it almost seems like non-sequitur
- 14:36:58 [reosarevok]
- CallerNo6, I was wondering if you could use whatever you feel is useful there for your "destructive edits" thing
- 14:37:08 [derwin]
- like, "the 'first' release date'
- 14:37:12 [reosarevok]
- Because I feel a "How to Merge Artists" is overkill
- 14:37:16 [derwin]
- is meaningless if people don't include any release dates
- 14:37:28 [derwin]
- how do you sort a release with no release date in that case, etc?
- 14:37:43 [derwin]
- hrm. interesting issue. I'll ponder on it in the back of my head. I can see some validity to both sides
- 14:38:01 [reosarevok]
- (we had a "How to Merge Artists" before though)
- 14:43:03 [CallerNo6]
- reosarevok, I'll take a look tonight (PDT)
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- 15:09:01 [ncybernee]
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- 15:09:30 [ncybernee]
- Need a hand with the freeDB mirror
- 15:09:59 [ncybernee]
- loaded info for two CDs about ten hours ago and they're not coming across:
- 15:10:03 [ncybernee]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/124dd30f-5471-443f-a40c-cbcaddaf1317
- 15:10:10 [ncybernee]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/697bd42b-885b-48fa-be74-d7f844e6ebbf
- 15:14:02 [reosarevok]
- ruaok, ijabz: is the indexing working?
- 15:14:25 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok added artists yesterday that the indexed search still can't find, and guesses ncybernee's problem might also be related to that
- 15:15:20 [ruaok]
- currently I see not reports that things are not working.
- 15:15:22 [ruaok]
- no
- 15:15:31 [ijabz]
- hi reosarevok I've no idea I do not have access to the server
- 15:16:12 [ijabz]
- ruaok: no?
- 15:16:30 [ruaok]
- s/not/no
- 15:17:07 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 15:17:51 [CatCat]
- gey rob
- 15:17:55 [CatCat]
- hey even
- 15:17:58 [reosarevok]
- If you search for artist "red fuego" do you get indexed hits?
- 15:18:15 [ruaok]
- hey catcat
- 15:18:34 [ruaok]
- nope
- 15:19:07 [reosarevok]
- That was added with this edit http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15429908
- 15:19:12 [reosarevok]
- "2011-10-24 15:21 EEST"
- 15:19:23 [reosarevok]
- So it should definitely be there if the indexes were running correctly
- 15:19:47 [CatCat]
- what is eest in cest?
- 15:19:54 [ijabz]
- ruaok: Any output from index building indicating error ?
- 15:20:11 [CatCat]
- v6lur: hvor er du fra?
- 15:20:17 [ruaok]
- ijabz: negative.
- 15:20:30 [v6lur]
- jeg er fra Estland :P
- 15:20:36 [ruaok]
- reosarevok: bug me about this later once I've woken up and had caffeine
- 15:20:37 [CatCat]
- oi
- 15:20:43 [reosarevok]
- Ok
- 15:20:45 [CatCat]
- men forstår du norks da?
- 15:20:46 [ijabz]
- Or can you try searching each search server , in car problem with one of them ?
- 15:20:48 [CatCat]
- norsk*
- 15:21:05 [reosarevok]
- CatCat, EEST is one hour more than Norwegian time
- 15:21:10 [CatCat]
- gm
- 15:21:14 [v6lur]
- ja, jeg snakker lite norsk
- 15:21:16 [CatCat]
- hm even
- 15:21:23 [CatCat]
- kult
- 15:21:49 [CatCat]
- jeg skrev I norsk til han varmedusten forde han klager på at folk skriver englesk til ham
- 15:22:01 [v6lur]
- ah, du såg notaten min :P
- 15:23:04 [CatCat]
- men dt er nå så, hans problem hvar visst at "folk ikke vet hvordan det er å komunisere på et språk som ikke her hoved/morspråket sitt"
- 15:23:13 [CatCat]
- v6lur: ja det gjorde jeg
- 15:23:33 [v6lur]
- a så... jeg undrethvorfor gjorde du det :P
- 15:23:34 [CatCat]
- men er nå så, så skulle jeg brukt engleks a like vel
- 15:23:39 [CatCat]
- :)
- 15:23:45 [CatCat]
- ja
- 15:23:50 [reosarevok]
- http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Mirror_Server probably needs updating
- 15:24:08 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok imagines "Bandwidth requirements for a mirror are currently hard to judge -- we're just getting started setting up mirrors and our client software is not fully ready to take advantage of our mirrors yet." has changed somehow?
- 15:24:10 [CatCat]
- han har linked til dansk wikimedia, så jeg underforstok at han kan litt?
- 15:25:04 [ruaok]
- huh
- 15:25:06 [v6lur]
- jeg vet ikke... jeg tykker at han snakker "plattdüütsch" som morsmål
- 15:25:07 [CatCat]
- men òg for å tirre ham litt? idk, jeg har ikke fått noe svar, og jeg svarer ikke hvis han begynner med psuedonym tulle sitt
- 15:25:10 [ruaok]
- cart man is doing weird stuff
- 15:25:11 [ruaok]
- http://stats.musicbrainz.org/mrtg/drraw/drraw.cgi?Mode=view;Template=1196205794.8081;Base=%2Fvar%2Fwww%2Fmrtg%2F%2Fcartman_load.rrd
- 15:25:20 [ruaok]
- seems that it missed an update cycle.
- 15:25:32 [CatCat]
- hmm, kanskje warp skall prøve å snakke til ham?
- 15:25:46 [v6lur]
- :P
- 15:25:55 [CatCat]
- han gjør jo ikke vandaliserende edits...
- 15:26:00 [CatCat]
- for det meste
- 15:26:23 [CatCat]
- estland er bra
- 15:26:49 [CatCat]
- it reminds me of that SatW comic.. with the estalnd personification wanting i nin the part? he
- 15:26:50 [CatCat]
- h
- 15:26:59 [CatCat]
- guh..
- 15:27:15 [CatCat]
- jeg burde kanskje holde meg til norsk? hah
- 15:27:30 [v6lur]
- ja, jeg husker det :P
- 15:27:34 [CatCat]
- :D
- 15:28:26 [v6lur]
- synd, at SatW oppdateres ikke så ofte
- 15:28:47 [CatCat]
- ja, det er rett rolikt (for å bruke svensk)
- 15:29:07 [reosarevok]
- ruaok, do we have any mirror servers at the moment?
- 15:29:25 [CatCat]
- hm
- 15:29:34 [reosarevok]
- (I see the link in http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Mirror_Server redirects to Classic)
- 15:29:51 [CatCat]
- men nu må eg dusje
- 15:29:57 [CatCat]
- ha det bra
- 15:32:31 [v6lur]
- ja, og jeg må gå også. ha det bra!
- 16:06:19 [chrisb]
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- 17:03:41 [jesus2099]
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- 17:03:52 [jesus2099]
- Are there any mailing list users here ?
- 17:04:52 [jesus2099]
- Any forum users then ?
- 17:05:15 [jesus2099]
- or even… IRC ?
- 17:05:46 [jesus2099]
- Oh warp you’re here ? (in the list at least)
- 17:06:27 [jesus2099]
- k
- 17:06:29 [jesus2099]
- ic
- 17:16:58 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 18:36:24 [Leftmost]
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- Leftmost has joined #musicbrainz
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- 19:30:22 [kepstin-laptop]
- reosarevok: it would be nice if the sections under http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Reports_description would link to the individual reports, as well :)
- 19:30:42 [reosarevok]
- kepstin-laptop, the idea is to move each to the report page
- 19:30:47 [reosarevok]
- Not to have them as a wiki page
- 19:30:55 [reosarevok]
- This is just a placeholder
- 19:31:03 [reosarevok]
- Because I had to write them somewhere
- 19:31:21 [kepstin-laptop]
- ah. well, in that case, carry on :)
- 19:31:44 [reosarevok]
- (and I can't just edit the report pages, sadly :( )
- 19:32:22 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. you know what would be a neat feature? being able to mark an entity as excluded from a reports - e.g. because you have checked it and found that the report doesn't apply.
- 19:32:23 [bitmap]
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- 19:32:37 [reosarevok]
- kepstin-laptop, we mentioned that on the summit
- 19:32:45 [reosarevok]
- Also filtering them by subscribed entities
- 19:32:54 [reosarevok]
- (which should be easier so I hope they do it sooner)
- 19:33:25 [ianmcorvidae]
- reosarevok: you should really learn how to code, you seem to have more time than anyone else :P
- 19:33:50 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae, that's because I don't use my time to learn how to code! :p
- 19:33:55 [CatCat]
- XD
- 19:33:58 [ianmcorvidae]
- hah
- 19:34:01 [ianmcorvidae]
- fair enough :P
- 19:35:06 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae, also, I actually submitted one patch this week :p
- 19:35:11 [v6lur]
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- 19:35:28 [reosarevok]
- Ok, it is copy-paste stuff that adds 7 lines of code
- 19:35:36 [reosarevok]
- BUT IT IS A PATCH AIN'T IT :D :p
- 19:35:52 [ianmcorvidae]
- fair enough :P
- 19:36:26 [reosarevok]
- I guess seeing there's a week until release
- 19:36:42 [reosarevok]
- I can try to add the report descriptions myself and make that my SECOND patch! :p
- 19:36:58 [CatCat]
- psh
- 19:37:16 [reosarevok]
- (yeah, ok, more copypaste stuff, but someone has to do it)
- 19:37:18 [CatCat]
- * CatCat is still proud of his icons thoguh
- 19:38:06 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop has a week full of midterms, but hasn't given up on his music player yet.
- 19:38:19 [navap]
- ianmcorvidae: Nice timing :)
- 19:38:28 [CatCat]
- that being said, I wonder if ruaok needs a "acustid"sp? icon, i'm on that
- 19:38:29 [ianmcorvidae]
- navap: heh, yeah
- 19:38:45 [CatCat]
- *if he does, i'm on that
- 19:38:54 [kepstin-laptop]
- CatCat: AcoustID.
- 19:39:08 [CatCat]
- acoustid, ok
- 19:40:17 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. the logo used on http://acoustid.org/ is just a red bold italic 'id' :/
- 19:41:13 [kepstin-laptop]
- looks like the daily additions of acoustids has risen since the new picard release :)
- 19:42:06 [ianmcorvidae]
- unsurprisingly, I'd say :)
- 19:43:13 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop went to near the top of the contributors list, thanks to scanning his entire collection a couple days ago :/
- 19:44:19 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae is (relatively) pretty high at 54th overall
- 19:44:20 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 19:44:29 [reosarevok]
- Zvooq = 8430451?
- 19:44:31 [reosarevok]
- Nice!
- 19:44:51 [ianmcorvidae]
- I also scanned my entire collection at least twice in the very early stages of acoustid's existence
- 19:44:54 [ianmcorvidae]
- thus :)
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- 21:08:28 [reosarevok]
- Anyone here uses "Add cluster as a release"?
- 21:08:48 [reosarevok]
- (and could make a small wiki page or something explaining how to use it for new users?)
- 21:09:12 [hrglgrmpf]
- I'm using it
- 21:09:28 [reosarevok]
- Alternatively, you can tell this guy: http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?pid=15852#p15852
- 21:09:40 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok has no idea how it works as he has never used it
- 21:10:22 [hrglgrmpf]
- uh, I can't speak Spaning (?)
- 21:10:24 [hrglgrmpf]
- Spanish
- 21:10:33 [reosarevok]
- It's in English under it
- 21:10:35 [reosarevok]
- Well, kind of
- 21:10:36 [reosarevok]
- :p
- 21:10:50 [reosarevok]
- (his English is clearly not too good, but if the instructions are clear I hope he'll get it)
- 21:11:27 [hrglgrmpf]
- how can you not use "Add cluster as release"? Means: what do you use when you add releases?
- 21:11:39 [reosarevok]
- I go to the page
- 21:11:42 [reosarevok]
- And add it
- 21:11:44 [hrglgrmpf]
- "Copy on clip board"?
- 21:11:56 [hrglgrmpf]
- ah, I mean for completely new releases...
- 21:12:09 [reosarevok]
- I usually add releases from the internet way before I actually have them
- 21:12:21 [hrglgrmpf]
- k
- 21:12:24 [reosarevok]
- (then just make sure nothing was wrong on the artist-provided info)
- 21:12:32 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok mostly streams his music anyway lately :)
- 21:15:50 [hrglgrmpf]
- it is very easy to use, I think adding a wiki page might be not necessary
- 21:16:14 [hrglgrmpf]
- right click on a cluster, then "Add cluster as release" from context menu
- 21:16:27 [nikki]
- * nikki was thinking tat
- 21:16:27 [nikki]
- that too
- 21:16:32 [hrglgrmpf]
- is he using the correct version of Picard and the plugin?
- 21:16:35 [nikki]
- and happy auto-editing, hrglgrmpf ;)
- 21:16:45 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: thanks :-)
- 21:16:57 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: it looks so strange to not have 20+ pages of open edits
- 21:17:00 [reosarevok]
- hrglgrmpf, he should be, but I'm not sure whether he gets clusters well yey
- 21:17:02 [reosarevok]
- *yet
- 21:17:05 [reosarevok]
- But if it's just that
- 21:17:08 [reosarevok]
- I can tell him in Spanish :)
- 21:18:03 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes, the only thing which can be misunderstood is that it only works on clusters... so for example not on already recognized releases in the right tab
- 21:18:22 [hrglgrmpf]
- and also not on a collection of un-clustered tracks
- 21:18:27 [reosarevok]
- Ok :)
- 21:18:35 [hrglgrmpf]
- and to cluster tracks, they have to all have the same album set
- 21:19:12 [hrglgrmpf]
- so to use cluster-as-release, you may need another tagger first (e.g. easytag) to set the album (and other tags)
- 21:21:23 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: I got the impression that "gender=other" is only meaningful for persons identifying other than male/female, not e.g. for companies (who have no gender)
- 21:21:40 [nikki]
- * nikki would agree
- 21:21:41 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 21:21:47 [reosarevok]
- The "none" problem again!
- 21:21:55 [nikki]
- I don't think I would set type=other, gender=other
- 21:21:56 [hrglgrmpf]
- reosarevok: exactly :-)
- 21:22:08 [reosarevok]
- on the other hand, if we don't add "none"
- 21:22:15 [reosarevok]
- People might pretty well use "other"
- 21:22:21 [reosarevok]
- Because "none" is neither female nor male
- 21:22:23 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes
- 21:22:26 [hrglgrmpf]
- http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=gender%3Aother&type=artist&limit=100&advanced=1
- 21:22:32 [reosarevok]
- So, should we add none? :p
- 21:23:13 [hrglgrmpf]
- and it is not some uninformed user, but an (very well informed) autoeditor who added the company with gender=other
- 21:24:23 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 21:24:31 [reosarevok]
- No longer there
- 21:24:42 [hrglgrmpf]
- it would be cool if gender=none could be special UI-wise
- 21:24:50 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok facepalms at Tony Bennet & Mariah Carey
- 21:24:55 [reosarevok]
- Special in what way?
- 21:24:58 [hrglgrmpf]
- like just a gray field
- 21:25:20 [hrglgrmpf]
- not just another option "none"
- 21:25:30 [hrglgrmpf]
- I don't know :-)
- 21:25:30 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 21:25:33 [reosarevok]
- Dunno
- 21:25:40 [reosarevok]
- I like the old text dropdowns
- 21:25:48 [reosarevok]
- But I am kinda oldfashioned
- 21:25:48 [reosarevok]
- :p
- 21:29:11 [nikki]
- well, do we want to distinguish between unknown gender and no gender?
- 21:29:41 [nikki]
- or should we just add a character artist type and prevent genders for type=other entirely? :P
- 21:29:58 [nikki]
- * nikki decides she likes the latter more...
- 21:30:28 [reosarevok]
- ...
- 21:30:43 [reosarevok]
- Doesn't that imply moving most of the current "other" entities to "character"?
- 21:30:54 [reosarevok]
- Seems like much more work somehow
- 21:30:59 [nikki]
- I suppose that depends what most of the current other entries are :)
- 21:31:07 [reosarevok]
- Also, what's a "character"?
- 21:31:34 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok has this issue where this guy has a lot of performance names, which are all supposed to be different animals (or rather furries) which do electronic music
- 21:31:46 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok has no idea what to do of that
- 21:31:59 [reosarevok]
- (apart from saying "wtf that guy is mad" that is)
- 21:32:09 [nikki]
- anything under type=other which represents something vaguely person-like? :P
- 21:32:24 [ianmcorvidae]
- anything under type=other that can have an assigned gender, perhaps
- 21:32:47 [nikki]
- hm, 263 artists with type=other
- 21:34:13 [hrglgrmpf]
- I don't know if we should further split type=other...
- 21:34:34 [hrglgrmpf]
- there are so few artists compared to person/group...
- 21:35:09 [hrglgrmpf]
- but I don't have anything against disabling gender for "other"
- 21:35:16 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok can already see somebody coming and asking to make "type=orchestra" and "type=ensemble" out of group
- 21:36:05 [ianmcorvidae]
- well, I mean, is there anything wrong with doing that?
- 21:36:06 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes... it is too subjective... I just wanted type=other for edge cases where type=person and type=group doesn't fit
- 21:36:34 [hrglgrmpf]
- no, not at all (if you mean disabling gender for type=other)
- 21:36:57 [hrglgrmpf]
- I just didn't want to be too restrictive in my RFC and see how type=other will be used
- 21:37:06 [hrglgrmpf]
- and then see if we need all attributes
- 21:37:42 [hrglgrmpf]
- begin-date can be useful for companies, or the start for an artist that is e.g. a TV series
- 21:37:52 [nikki]
- hrglgrmpf: but there are some valid uses of gender for type=other though
- 21:38:29 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: yes...
- 21:38:33 [hrglgrmpf]
- thats the problem
- 21:38:51 [hrglgrmpf]
- but maybe a boy-group could be gender=male :-)?
- 21:39:28 [nikki]
- we already discussed that on the style list and decided groups shouldn't have genders
- 21:41:23 [nikki]
- (after all, the members have genders...)
- 21:41:44 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes, I fully agree, it was a bad example
- 21:42:15 [hrglgrmpf]
- the question is, if gender=other should be allowed as "none-type" for artists where gender is not applicable
- 21:43:01 [nikki]
- it doesn't seem right to me to have two definitions of gender=other
- 21:43:01 [hrglgrmpf]
- or if it is just a neutral word for something like "transgender", that can not be used as n/a type
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- 21:44:16 [reosarevok]
- nikki, it is technically just one definition
- 21:44:21 [reosarevok]
- "not male, not female"
- 21:44:49 [hrglgrmpf]
- the style guide says "Use "other" if the artist identifies as something other than "male" or "female"."
- 21:45:24 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok is sure a label doesn't identify as male or female
- 21:45:34 [reosarevok]
- (or any company)
- 21:45:35 [nikki]
- but when you use it for type=other, it means both "has a gender which isn't represented by male/female" and "gender is utterly irrelevant here"
- 21:47:02 [nikki]
- so imo it should either be type=none or just left unset
- 21:53:48 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: agreed! How could http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Artist be changed to reflect this?
- 21:54:18 [hrglgrmpf]
- I'm not good enough with English I guess :-(
- 21:55:29 [hrglgrmpf]
- "The other type is meant as a gender which isn't represented by male or female" ... is that enough to disable the n/a option?
- 21:57:24 [nikki]
- hmm... "... if the artist has a gender but identifies ..." maybe?
- 21:57:53 [hrglgrmpf]
- maybe... does that cover the uses of type=other with gender=male/female?
- 21:58:38 [hrglgrmpf]
- (like a electronic female voice). I guess so, luckily in English there is the gender/sex difference
- 21:58:50 [nikki]
- hehe, hatsune miku
- 21:58:58 [nikki]
- (who is set to female, of course)
- 21:59:11 [ianmcorvidae]
- "The 'other' gender option is meant to represent a gender that is neither male nor female, and is not intended for use with entities for which the concept of gender is illogical, such as companies"
- 21:59:18 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: yes, exactly!
- 21:59:20 [ianmcorvidae]
- er s/a gender/any gender/
- 21:59:22 [ianmcorvidae]
- or something
- 21:59:53 [hrglgrmpf]
- ianmcorvidae: also good!
- 22:00:01 [nikki]
- well, you could argue that hatsune miku, not being a living thinking being, can't actually identify as female, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people from setting genders for things like that, so I guess it would work
- 22:01:53 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok likes ian's wording
- 22:02:34 [ianmcorvidae]
- I hang out with too many genderqueer people, clearly, I'm worried about people being like "the concept of gender applied to ANYTHING is illogical, nothing should have a gender set!"
- 22:03:11 [nikki]
- * nikki has no problems with ian's wording either
- 22:04:03 [hrglgrmpf]
- should I file an RFC explaining the "other"/"none" issue and asking for adding the ian's paragraph?
- 22:04:13 [nikki]
- please do
- 22:04:14 [hrglgrmpf]
- ianmcorvidae: or do you want to do it?
- 22:04:18 [ianmcorvidae]
- nah, you do it
- 22:04:36 [ianmcorvidae]
- I'm glad to pitch in on IRC but I'll leave RFC-ing to others :)
- 22:06:18 [reosarevok]
- Coward... :p
- 22:06:30 [ianmcorvidae]
- pretty much :)
- 22:07:04 [nikki]
- hrglgrmpf: btw, the other direction text for the voice actor thing isn't really relevant, it's not stored in the db anywere
- 22:07:06 [nikki]
- anywhere.
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- 22:07:34 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: thanks, I just wanted to ask
- 22:07:42 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: so "performed the voice of" is good?
- 22:07:53 [nikki]
- those templates really need updating...
- 22:07:53 [hrglgrmpf]
- it is not present-tense, does that matter?
- 22:07:55 [nikki]
- * nikki shudders
- 22:08:15 [nikki]
- I think it's fine
- 22:08:26 [hrglgrmpf]
- so I can send the RFV :-)?
- 22:09:06 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae, feel like doing some template-updatin'?
- 22:09:09 [reosarevok]
- :p
- 22:09:32 [ianmcorvidae]
- heh, probably not THOSE ones
- 22:09:46 [ianmcorvidae]
- (more to the point, not within the 40 minutes I have before I head off for the evening)
- 22:10:56 [nikki]
- hrglgrmpf: it seems ok, although kepstin hasn't responded to your question
- 22:12:41 [hrglgrmpf]
- nikki: I will wait for another day then
- 22:14:18 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok kinda expected *someone* to say something about removing the merchandising rel
- 22:14:27 [reosarevok]
- Even if it was just "NOOOOO I like that"
- 22:16:47 [nikki]
- clearly nobody cares :P
- 22:17:02 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes, don't care :-)
- 22:17:26 [reosarevok]
- Yeah, but if nobody cares to the point of nobody +1ing it, I won't be able to RFV it either! :p
- 22:21:54 [hrglgrmpf]
- reosarevok: really? Isn't there some default +1 after the RFC is expired?
- 22:22:22 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok doesn't think so. Is there any, nikki?
- 22:22:40 [nikki]
- no
- 22:22:53 [nikki]
- but if all else fails, I can give it a +1 myself :P
- 22:23:10 [reosarevok]
- :)
- 22:23:15 [reosarevok]
- Now that's the spirit
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