IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-03-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

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00:45:54 [CatCatCatCatCatC]
huh it gets truncated
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03:31:24 [nikki]
hm, no hrglgrmpf
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11:07:15 [CatCat]
hmm http://mozaiq.org/encrypt/
11:24:26 [stasdh278]
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11:24:36 [stasdh278]
Hey
11:24:59 [stasdh278]
I have just installed the Musicbrainz server and it is working as a standalone
11:25:08 [stasdh278]
How do i get it to work as a slave?
11:25:25 [stasdh278]
This is not the VM but a manual install
11:33:44 [CatCat]
oh internet, you make everything awesome. even knitting http://www.flickr.com/photos/10890754@N07/2035951420/in/pool-wecallthempirates
11:36:46 [ijabz]
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11:37:49 [stasdh278]
Also, just restarted the server and getting the follow error
11:38:15 [stasdh278]
Error while loading app.psgi: cant locate dbdefs.pm in @inc
11:38:18 [stasdh278]
Any ideas?
11:41:10 [ijabz]
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12:28:16 [CatCat]
pretty awesome http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/spider-silk/
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14:13:29 [Mineo]
hm, I wonder what's the "best" way to deal with recordings like http://musicbrainz.org/recording/18bf405c-404e-41c4-9280-fdf3d19e96dd - leave it as is, apply multiple title and featuring artist style or something completely different?:/
14:37:39 [CatCat]
why is it duplicated?
14:41:58 [Jokipii]
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14:52:16 [Mineo]
CatCat: why's what duplicated?
14:52:54 [CatCat]
that track is twice on that release
14:52:59 [CatCat]
same recording
14:53:16 [Mineo]
ah, yes - once in stereo on a regular cd, once in 5.1 on a dvd
14:54:14 [CatCat]
eh
14:54:20 [CatCat]
dvd's shouldnt be in mb
14:54:21 [CatCat]
..
14:55:19 [Mineo]
uhm, why do we have a medium type of "dvd" then?
14:56:27 [jonnyjd]
there are audio dvds
15:03:26 [Mineo]
and video dvds which even are in the medium format list
15:03:31 [jonnyjd]
but I have in mind that there is/was discussion to include video dvds for real (not only as bootleg)
15:03:36 [jonnyjd]
oh, they are now?
15:04:34 [Mineo]
they have been since the start of NGS, according to the wiki
15:04:44 [jonnyjd]
carry on then :-P
15:05:13 [hrglgrmpf]
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15:05:29 [Mineo]
I also remember getting yes votes on catalogue-number changes on video-dvds way before NGS :)
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16:32:48 [kepstin-laptop]
lol, someone made a song by autotuning siri's voice http://people.scs.carleton.ca/~cwalton3/temp/testembed.html
16:33:04 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop is embedding it in a page, because watching it on nicovideo.jp requires login.
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16:56:25 [reosarevok]
lol
16:56:54 [reosarevok]
The result is actually not much worse than a lot of the anime-opening songs I've heard
16:57:05 [reosarevok]
Which... is a bit worrying
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17:12:45 [kepstin-laptop]
also, intel being awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdB0WEixjM
17:29:09 [Munger]
Oh. My Picard has suddenly started adding featured artists to the artist name rather than the track title
17:29:18 [Munger]
* Munger wonders what he changed
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17:33:33 [Leftmost]
Munger, style guidelines.
17:33:53 [Munger]
Sure, but now all my files are messed up
17:34:46 [Munger]
I don't want featured artists in the artist tag. It screws up my jukebox
17:35:23 [Leftmost]
Then write a script to remove them.
17:35:50 [Munger]
The problem is I don't know when this behaviour changed. It never used to work this way
17:36:26 [kepstin]
Munger: it was a new guideline introduced relatively recently, now that we actually support having multiple artists credited on a song
17:37:01 [kepstin]
(the old featuring artist style was really just so that we didn't add tons of 'X feat. Y' collaboration artists to the db)
17:37:55 [Munger]
How recently? I need to know just how many files are 'broken'
17:39:57 [Munger]
Changes like that can cause a lot of work to unsuspecting taggers who rely on a consistent style
17:40:01 [reosarevok]
Munger: there's a plugin for that
17:40:19 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Picard/Plugins
17:40:21 [Munger]
There is? Any idea what it's called?
17:40:35 [reosarevok]
"Move Feat. Artists to Titles" there
17:41:13 [andreypopp]
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17:41:26 [Munger]
Thanks. I'll try and find a way to scan for files affected by this
17:41:41 [reosarevok]
Also, it's a change that makes the database much better, and since tagging is only an use of it, not its purpose, I don't think it was done wrong
17:42:06 [reosarevok]
Although I admit it probably didn't get enough commenting (might have made sense for it to have, say, a blog post, which I don't think it had)
17:42:15 [reosarevok]
(not that most Picard users read our blog...)
17:51:20 [reosarevok]
Also: Munger, I'd expect loading the stuff in a library player and searching for "feat." as artist would be the fastest way?
17:51:36 [reosarevok]
(especially if you already use one, that is)
17:53:14 [Munger]
CAn't assume anything like that. I use SilverJuke and it makes it a real mess if feat. is in the artist title. It breaks up albums horribly
17:53:40 [kurtjx]
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17:54:11 [kepstin]
that's a bit annoying; most players will use the album artist tag to join albums together rather than the track artist, which fixes that problem.
17:54:13 [reosarevok]
That should make it even easier to find them, though, shouldn't it?
17:55:05 [Munger]
I put in a request to the SilverJuke team to honour the album artist tag, but no joy yet
17:56:02 [Munger]
...having said that, if it grouped by album artist I would still need the feat.artists in the track names for them to appear at all
17:56:40 [kurtjx]
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17:56:46 [kepstin]
Munger: I take it that the program just explodes on various artists releases?
18:01:15 [rjmunro]
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18:09:45 [Munger]
kepstin. Actually, no
18:11:50 [Munger]
They have a rather clumsy approach to grouping tracks as albums. There is a setting that defines a threshhold of the minimum number of tracks that make an album. If one or two tracks have a different artist they get split into another album
18:13:25 [Munger]
It's a shame realy, because otherewise SilverJuke is in a class of it's own - especially with a touchscreen
18:29:18 [ijabz]
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18:50:40 [derwin]
fwiw, I agree with the old "feat" style
18:50:47 [derwin]
better in the track name than in the artist name
18:50:52 [derwin]
from a database perspective
18:56:17 [jonnyjd]
from a DB perspective it makes no difference. It is saved on recording/work level no matter what.
18:57:09 [jonnyjd]
what you mean is from a perspective of saving files per artist, I guess.
18:58:52 [derwin]
yep, I'm basically saying it's better to proliferate unique recording names than unique artist names
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19:07:02 [reosarevok]
derwin: except that in titles, is not really associating it to the artist at all
19:07:14 [reosarevok]
You might argue that allowing to associate artists to titles makes sense anyway
19:07:36 [reosarevok]
But association beats non-association, so artist beats titles (at least right now)
19:08:06 [reosarevok]
(and if that changed, as the associations are made, it would be pretty trivial to move it)
19:08:19 [derwin]
well, in real life, the feat is not usually "associated" with the title in many cases
19:08:37 [derwin]
and in other cases it is
19:08:59 [derwin]
like, is the song name "Stayin' Alive" or is it "Stayin' Alive featuring John Forte"
19:09:04 [derwin]
album cover might say latter
19:09:10 [derwin]
but song is named "Stayin' Alive"
19:09:25 [derwin]
so what would be most correct is to not-capture-it, I think, in many cases
19:09:38 [derwin]
neither in the artist or title entity
19:10:12 [reosarevok]
But the point is the artist is being given a credit (as in, credited as opposed to listed in the notes)
19:10:28 [reosarevok]
So why not to indicate that as a credit?
19:10:42 [derwin]
well, the reason would be that there's no credit system
19:10:51 [derwin]
and it doesn't belong in the title?
19:11:18 [derwin]
(or associated with the primary artist on the track)
19:11:42 [reosarevok]
But the artist system *is* a credit system
19:12:06 [reosarevok]
(that's why, say, DJ Khaled gets an artist field even though he doesn't actually do anything musical)
19:12:08 [derwin]
in my view, albums have an artist
19:12:27 [derwin]
(and if you think blending music is not 'musical' that's a discussion for another time, lol)
19:12:48 [derwin]
if the album has an artist, and the tracks feature guests
19:13:01 [derwin]
I don't see why the guests are suddently credited as artists on the album
19:13:11 [derwin]
it's still a method man album even if raekwon is on some tracks
19:13:16 [reosarevok]
(does he do that? all I've read about it is more like "he joins some people to perform together")
19:13:19 [derwin]
the track is still "by" method man
19:13:31 [reosarevok]
It's a MM album, sure (which is why he's album artist)
19:13:49 [reosarevok]
But the track gives a special attribution to Rae, after all
19:14:05 [reosarevok]
(instead of listing it in the small print with "vocals, Raekwon")
19:14:13 [derwin]
hrm, I guess I see your point...
19:14:47 [derwin]
I guess it's actually righter to have it in the artist there
19:15:09 [derwin]
although if you create a new entity that doesn't exist
19:15:18 [derwin]
"Method Man featuring. Raekwon"
19:15:47 [reosarevok]
Also, when they play that kind of stuff in a music video channel for example, I would say it tends to be given as "Method Man feat. Raekwon" - "song" (but I haven't watched musical TV in aaaaages)
19:16:13 [derwin]
what I prefer about it being in the artist, I guess
19:16:23 [derwin]
is that the two entities smooshed together there
19:16:24 [derwin]
are the same
19:16:32 [derwin]
versus in the title
19:16:42 [derwin]
where a title and artist credit are being smooshed together
19:17:04 [reosarevok]
Yeah
19:17:15 [derwin]
so I'm all turned around on the subject
19:17:22 [derwin]
better to smoosh similar entities when overloading
19:17:37 [reosarevok]
Not that it's perfect, though (it might make sense to be able to actually credit -and link- a remixer in the title)
19:18:04 [reosarevok]
(although there I see a point to just not link it except in the credits, too)
19:18:11 [reosarevok]
But I do see it as better than before
19:18:13 [reosarevok]
Aaanyway
19:18:18 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok goes back to catch pokémon
19:18:24 [derwin]
well, in those cases, "blahblahblah remix" is often the *name* of the remix
19:18:29 [derwin]
as well as the artist credit for the remix
19:19:04 [reosarevok]
Yeah, that's why I said keep it in the title - and why I'm not too sure whether using it as a credit-ish thing is actually good or not
19:19:30 [reosarevok]
Someone kill Twitter spammers
19:19:41 [derwin]
kill soundcloud spammers too.
19:19:54 [reosarevok]
Really?
19:19:58 [reosarevok]
In SoundCloud?
19:20:08 [reosarevok]
What's this, hipster spam?
19:20:29 [reosarevok]
Well, I guess if they attacked MB, they don't care too much how *huge* the mass being spammed is :p
19:34:44 [CatCat]
who is "siri"?
19:34:45 [andreypopp]
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19:34:47 [CatCat]
??
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19:45:03 [reosarevok]
Some iPhone voice thing
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20:02:48 [CatCat]
OH MY GOD THIS WAS AWESOME YOU GUYS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aGMxwxBOU&feature=related
20:13:55 [CallerNo6]
I was sick of software (and chipset) "codenames" in 1998, and I want the world to know it. So there.
20:14:11 [CallerNo6]
(no, that had nothing to do with anything... I just want to complain)
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21:44:46 [Munger]
Would it be reasonable to change the quotes in this release title to smart quotes?
21:44:49 [Munger]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/218ded2c-f138-48f0-9b5c-8e53903553cc?tport=8000
21:45:42 [rjmunro]
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21:46:02 [Munger]
...even better, would it be possible to scan/update this sort of thing globally :-)
21:48:02 [reosarevok]
Munger: yes to the first, less so to the second
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21:48:34 [reosarevok]
(it's hard to guess what every use of " - and even more so of ' - is because it's used for different things apart from quotes)
21:49:47 [ianmcorvidae]
should be possible to add fancy quotes to guess case at least though
21:50:01 [Munger]
SELECT count(*) FROM "mb"."release_name" WHERE "name" LIKE '%"%"%' returns 3678 hits
21:50:31 [ianmcorvidae]
or add a report
21:50:56 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae: sure, once I can actually filter those I'd look into my subs :)
21:51:06 [yoasif]
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21:52:02 [Munger]
It's not really an issue for me, but it makes file names prettier
21:54:34 [thread]
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21:54:46 [thread]
hey all !
21:54:54 [thread]
i'm wondering if anyone can hint me on UTF-8 flac tags?
21:55:03 [thread]
i'm getting the "ordinal not in range(128)" message when trying to save flac files with extended characters in the tags.
21:55:18 [thread]
… having trouble finding any hints on the google
21:59:56 [CatCat]
fuck adding failquotes ti guesscase
22:00:29 [thread]
failquotes ftw
22:01:11 [CatCat]
not sure if awesome or not
22:03:19 [reosarevok]
CatCat: why? For English, it should be not-too-hard
22:03:37 [reosarevok]
FLAC users here, can you help thread?
22:03:41 [Mineo]
thread: can you paste a complete traceback to something like paste.pocoo.org ?
22:04:04 [thread]
Mineo: i'd love to
22:04:46 [reosarevok]
Massive off-topic: Anyone here playing ME3 already? If so, opinions? :)
22:05:25 [Mineo]
reosarevok: a friend of mine plays it. haven't talked to him since he got it, if you know what I mean ;)
22:05:39 [reosarevok]
heh
22:05:43 [reosarevok]
That's my fear, yeah
22:05:57 [reosarevok]
Especially since I lost my ME 1 + 2 saves, so I'd have to play the 3 in a row... 8)
22:06:12 [andreypopp]
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22:06:23 [thread]
Mineo: http://sprunge.us/KYKA
22:07:12 [thread]
Mineo: actually, that looks like the file getting renamed part, not the tagging part, doesn't it ...
22:07:43 [thread]
what's weird is that i have saved files (renamed -&- tagged) with funny accent chars before . . .
22:08:02 [thread]
even chinese or russian etc characters
22:08:17 [thread]
but a few different artists had the same issue today
22:10:59 [mchou]
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22:18:48 [Mineo]
hmm, I honestly have no idea why that happens, especially if saving other files works perfectly fine
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22:21:05 [CatCat]
* CatCat hates failquotes with a burning passion
22:21:35 [CatCat]
thos right now I'm kinda scared/awed at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Ud0tSx1tw&feature=related
22:23:41 [andreypopp]
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22:27:45 [Mineo]
and if anyone knows of a way to help demono in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/16751558, please go ahead and answer him :)
22:30:53 [reosarevok]
Mineo, fine
22:31:25 [reosarevok]
Will drop a couple links
22:31:52 [reosarevok]
Oh, I saw you gave the scripts, then just docs
22:31:55 [andreypopp]
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22:34:21 [Mineo]
yeah, but the scripts are not all that useful if the works are on different pages of the work list
22:40:59 [thread]
Mineo: thanks for looking, anyway
22:41:41 [nikki]
* nikki notes http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2006-April/002079.html from 6 years ago for people who think dvds shouldn't be added :P
22:41:43 [thread]
is someone else perhaps better equipped to answer my (UTF-8 related) question ?
22:43:11 [thread]
or .. any further thoughts on exactly what the problem step could be ?
22:50:36 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok wishes he could help but can't :(
22:50:41 [reosarevok]
nikki: any ideas?
22:51:17 [nikki]
thread: the only thing I can think of is that the locale is ascii and picard uses it to decide which encoding to write the filenames in
22:51:40 [nikki]
'cause I know picard can write unicode filenames, I do it all the time :/
22:52:23 [thread]
is that a systemwide setting ?
22:53:43 [thread]
sry for the lame question… & thanks for the direction to look
22:54:12 [nano-]
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22:55:25 [nikki]
hm. not entirely sure how it works, I've always just set everything I could to utf-8
22:56:28 [nikki]
(and it might not be the right answer, I don't know exactly how picard handles the filename stuff)
22:56:29 [jonnyjd]
@thread: you are on what OS?
22:57:12 [ianmcorvidae]
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22:57:22 [thread]
jonnyjd: arch linux
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22:57:58 [jonnyjd]
hm, same as me. I also use flac and german umlauts, but I didn't do much with 0.16
22:58:15 [jonnyjd]
Locale is normally set in /etc/rc.conf
22:58:19 [thread]
i was on 0.16.4… and i just tried installing the picard-git aur
22:58:40 [jonnyjd]
but can be set for every user different and even for every program. But normally it isn't
22:58:41 [thread]
yeah… it def could be a change. i did a big upgrade / change to rc.conf the other day
22:59:31 [thread]
ah.. good to know
22:59:38 [jonnyjd]
Possibly the mounted fs can't handle UTF (samba share without utf set?), but I don't think picard would give an error like that, then
22:59:55 [thread]
i'm vaguely familiar with it, but haven't played with it much
23:00:04 [thread]
yeah, that does not seem to be the problem
23:01:06 [tenthirteen]
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23:01:58 [nikki]
* nikki managed to reproduce it
23:05:02 [Mineo]
and now you're not telling us how?:P
23:05:49 [nikki]
no! >:P
23:05:53 [nikki]
LC_ALL=C picard
23:06:12 [nikki]
save anything with non-ascii, same error
23:06:20 [thread]
ooh
23:06:21 [jonnyjd]
in a terminal "echo $LANG" gives me de_DE.UTF-8" on arch
23:06:45 [nikki]
or just "locale" in a terminal
23:06:48 [Mineo]
but then thread would hopefully have seen the big warning that appears, right?
23:06:54 [jonnyjd]
what have you set LOCALE in /etc/rc.conf?
23:08:32 [thread]
yeah, i would totally check that right now, but i'm away from the system for a minute...
23:08:41 [thread]
it sounds like this must be the problem… what should it be set to ?
23:09:07 [thread]
en_US.UTF-8 ?
23:09:17 [jonnyjd]
something with UTF in it. there is a list of options in /etc/locale.conf, I think
23:09:20 [thread]
im a michigander :)
23:09:21 [jonnyjd]
yes, that would be valid
23:09:33 [Mineo]
/etc/locale.gen
23:09:53 [Mineo]
/etc/locale.conf is the one that overwrites the locale setting in /etc/rc.conf
23:10:03 [thread]
ah
23:10:10 [thread]
thanks muches, dudes… i'll def report back in a little bit.
23:10:35 [Mineo]
you also need to uncomment your desired locale in /etc/locale.gen and run locale-gen afterwards
23:12:00 [CatCat]
reosarevok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBsHGstL6aU&feature=related
23:12:33 [reosarevok]
srsly?
23:12:43 [CatCat]
nyanrolled?
23:13:12 [CatCat]
idk i am pretty tired and have a sore throat from dancing around =got tired and breathe
23:13:25 [CatCat]
reosarevok: no, not srsly :)
23:13:31 [CatCat]
very, very NOt srsly
23:13:37 [thread]
oh snap… picard was totally giving me a warning when i launch it, too
23:13:46 [thread]
* thread is pro at not reading stuff
23:13:49 [CatCat]
i am listening to all the language versions for some reason
23:14:14 [CatCat]
am disapoint at how few are actually "country themed" covers of the hyan song
23:16:03 [thread]
score! fixing locale resolved it.
23:16:36 [thread]
thanks again, everyone
23:16:49 [nikki]
* nikki notes that you don't get a warning if you use non-ascii non-utf-8 locales
23:17:12 [thread]
System locale charset is ANSI_X3.4-1968
23:17:20 [thread]
Your system's locale charset (i.e. the charset used to encode filenames)
23:17:20 [thread]
is set to ANSI_X3.4-1968. It is highly unlikely that this has been done
23:17:20 [thread]
intentionally. Most likely the locale is not set at all. An invalid setting ...
23:17:27 [nikki]
yes, I saw that when using an ascii one
23:17:41 [thread]
ah, you said non-ascii
23:18:05 [nikki]
but using a latin1 one locale and trying to save japanese stuff gives a similar error about the latin-1 codec
23:18:05 [CatCat]
the music for norwegian nyan is fail XD
23:18:21 [CatCat]
but LOL at cheeks being red & blue
23:18:34 [CatCat]
fjell og rød låve ja jøss
23:18:51 [thread]
heh
23:18:55 [CatCat]
hmm i dunno maybe this song is kinda norwegian
23:19:01 [CatCat]
it's pretty silly
23:25:01 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok shakes his head at people who did the Estonian one not calling it Estonyan Cat
23:40:28 [nikki]
* nikki opened a ticket btw http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/PICARD-167
23:46:01 [thread]
Nice :)
23:51:25 [CatCat]
reosarevok: wow yea
23:51:54 [CatCat]
:D