IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-03-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 00:45:54 [CatCatCatCatCatC]
- huh it gets truncated
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- 03:31:24 [nikki]
- hm, no hrglgrmpf
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- 11:07:15 [CatCat]
- hmm http://mozaiq.org/encrypt/
- 11:24:26 [stasdh278]
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- 11:24:36 [stasdh278]
- Hey
- 11:24:59 [stasdh278]
- I have just installed the Musicbrainz server and it is working as a standalone
- 11:25:08 [stasdh278]
- How do i get it to work as a slave?
- 11:25:25 [stasdh278]
- This is not the VM but a manual install
- 11:33:44 [CatCat]
- oh internet, you make everything awesome. even knitting http://www.flickr.com/photos/10890754@N07/2035951420/in/pool-wecallthempirates
- 11:36:46 [ijabz]
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- 11:37:49 [stasdh278]
- Also, just restarted the server and getting the follow error
- 11:38:15 [stasdh278]
- Error while loading app.psgi: cant locate dbdefs.pm in @inc
- 11:38:18 [stasdh278]
- Any ideas?
- 11:41:10 [ijabz]
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- 12:07:11 [kurtjx]
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- 12:28:16 [CatCat]
- pretty awesome http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/spider-silk/
- 12:29:54 [ijabz]
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- 13:01:12 [the_metalgamer]
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- 13:23:09 [reosarevok]
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- 13:28:34 [jonnyjd]
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- 13:43:20 [sha0lin]
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- 14:13:29 [Mineo]
- hm, I wonder what's the "best" way to deal with recordings like http://musicbrainz.org/recording/18bf405c-404e-41c4-9280-fdf3d19e96dd - leave it as is, apply multiple title and featuring artist style or something completely different?:/
- 14:37:39 [CatCat]
- why is it duplicated?
- 14:41:58 [Jokipii]
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- 14:52:16 [Mineo]
- CatCat: why's what duplicated?
- 14:52:54 [CatCat]
- that track is twice on that release
- 14:52:59 [CatCat]
- same recording
- 14:53:16 [Mineo]
- ah, yes - once in stereo on a regular cd, once in 5.1 on a dvd
- 14:54:14 [CatCat]
- eh
- 14:54:20 [CatCat]
- dvd's shouldnt be in mb
- 14:54:21 [CatCat]
- ..
- 14:55:19 [Mineo]
- uhm, why do we have a medium type of "dvd" then?
- 14:56:27 [jonnyjd]
- there are audio dvds
- 15:03:26 [Mineo]
- and video dvds which even are in the medium format list
- 15:03:31 [jonnyjd]
- but I have in mind that there is/was discussion to include video dvds for real (not only as bootleg)
- 15:03:36 [jonnyjd]
- oh, they are now?
- 15:04:34 [Mineo]
- they have been since the start of NGS, according to the wiki
- 15:04:44 [jonnyjd]
- carry on then :-P
- 15:05:13 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 15:05:29 [Mineo]
- I also remember getting yes votes on catalogue-number changes on video-dvds way before NGS :)
- 15:05:32 [ijabz]
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- 16:10:17 [CallerNo6]
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- 16:32:48 [kepstin-laptop]
- lol, someone made a song by autotuning siri's voice http://people.scs.carleton.ca/~cwalton3/temp/testembed.html
- 16:33:04 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop is embedding it in a page, because watching it on nicovideo.jp requires login.
- 16:39:29 [andreypopp]
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- 16:56:25 [reosarevok]
- lol
- 16:56:54 [reosarevok]
- The result is actually not much worse than a lot of the anime-opening songs I've heard
- 16:57:05 [reosarevok]
- Which... is a bit worrying
- 17:02:03 [Leftmost]
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- 17:08:00 [kurtjx]
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- 17:12:45 [kepstin-laptop]
- also, intel being awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdB0WEixjM
- 17:29:09 [Munger]
- Oh. My Picard has suddenly started adding featured artists to the artist name rather than the track title
- 17:29:18 [Munger]
- * Munger wonders what he changed
- 17:31:09 [kepstin]
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- 17:33:33 [Leftmost]
- Munger, style guidelines.
- 17:33:53 [Munger]
- Sure, but now all my files are messed up
- 17:34:46 [Munger]
- I don't want featured artists in the artist tag. It screws up my jukebox
- 17:35:23 [Leftmost]
- Then write a script to remove them.
- 17:35:50 [Munger]
- The problem is I don't know when this behaviour changed. It never used to work this way
- 17:36:26 [kepstin]
- Munger: it was a new guideline introduced relatively recently, now that we actually support having multiple artists credited on a song
- 17:37:01 [kepstin]
- (the old featuring artist style was really just so that we didn't add tons of 'X feat. Y' collaboration artists to the db)
- 17:37:55 [Munger]
- How recently? I need to know just how many files are 'broken'
- 17:39:57 [Munger]
- Changes like that can cause a lot of work to unsuspecting taggers who rely on a consistent style
- 17:40:01 [reosarevok]
- Munger: there's a plugin for that
- 17:40:19 [reosarevok]
- http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Picard/Plugins
- 17:40:21 [Munger]
- There is? Any idea what it's called?
- 17:40:35 [reosarevok]
- "Move Feat. Artists to Titles" there
- 17:41:13 [andreypopp]
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- 17:41:26 [Munger]
- Thanks. I'll try and find a way to scan for files affected by this
- 17:41:41 [reosarevok]
- Also, it's a change that makes the database much better, and since tagging is only an use of it, not its purpose, I don't think it was done wrong
- 17:42:06 [reosarevok]
- Although I admit it probably didn't get enough commenting (might have made sense for it to have, say, a blog post, which I don't think it had)
- 17:42:15 [reosarevok]
- (not that most Picard users read our blog...)
- 17:51:20 [reosarevok]
- Also: Munger, I'd expect loading the stuff in a library player and searching for "feat." as artist would be the fastest way?
- 17:51:36 [reosarevok]
- (especially if you already use one, that is)
- 17:53:14 [Munger]
- CAn't assume anything like that. I use SilverJuke and it makes it a real mess if feat. is in the artist title. It breaks up albums horribly
- 17:53:40 [kurtjx]
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- 17:54:11 [kepstin]
- that's a bit annoying; most players will use the album artist tag to join albums together rather than the track artist, which fixes that problem.
- 17:54:13 [reosarevok]
- That should make it even easier to find them, though, shouldn't it?
- 17:55:05 [Munger]
- I put in a request to the SilverJuke team to honour the album artist tag, but no joy yet
- 17:56:02 [Munger]
- ...having said that, if it grouped by album artist I would still need the feat.artists in the track names for them to appear at all
- 17:56:40 [kurtjx]
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- 17:56:46 [kepstin]
- Munger: I take it that the program just explodes on various artists releases?
- 18:01:15 [rjmunro]
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- 18:04:21 [andreypopp]
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- 18:09:45 [Munger]
- kepstin. Actually, no
- 18:11:50 [Munger]
- They have a rather clumsy approach to grouping tracks as albums. There is a setting that defines a threshhold of the minimum number of tracks that make an album. If one or two tracks have a different artist they get split into another album
- 18:13:25 [Munger]
- It's a shame realy, because otherewise SilverJuke is in a class of it's own - especially with a touchscreen
- 18:29:18 [ijabz]
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- 18:50:40 [derwin]
- fwiw, I agree with the old "feat" style
- 18:50:47 [derwin]
- better in the track name than in the artist name
- 18:50:52 [derwin]
- from a database perspective
- 18:56:17 [jonnyjd]
- from a DB perspective it makes no difference. It is saved on recording/work level no matter what.
- 18:57:09 [jonnyjd]
- what you mean is from a perspective of saving files per artist, I guess.
- 18:58:52 [derwin]
- yep, I'm basically saying it's better to proliferate unique recording names than unique artist names
- 19:01:04 [andreypopp]
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- 19:07:02 [reosarevok]
- derwin: except that in titles, is not really associating it to the artist at all
- 19:07:14 [reosarevok]
- You might argue that allowing to associate artists to titles makes sense anyway
- 19:07:36 [reosarevok]
- But association beats non-association, so artist beats titles (at least right now)
- 19:08:06 [reosarevok]
- (and if that changed, as the associations are made, it would be pretty trivial to move it)
- 19:08:19 [derwin]
- well, in real life, the feat is not usually "associated" with the title in many cases
- 19:08:37 [derwin]
- and in other cases it is
- 19:08:59 [derwin]
- like, is the song name "Stayin' Alive" or is it "Stayin' Alive featuring John Forte"
- 19:09:04 [derwin]
- album cover might say latter
- 19:09:10 [derwin]
- but song is named "Stayin' Alive"
- 19:09:25 [derwin]
- so what would be most correct is to not-capture-it, I think, in many cases
- 19:09:38 [derwin]
- neither in the artist or title entity
- 19:10:12 [reosarevok]
- But the point is the artist is being given a credit (as in, credited as opposed to listed in the notes)
- 19:10:28 [reosarevok]
- So why not to indicate that as a credit?
- 19:10:42 [derwin]
- well, the reason would be that there's no credit system
- 19:10:51 [derwin]
- and it doesn't belong in the title?
- 19:11:18 [derwin]
- (or associated with the primary artist on the track)
- 19:11:42 [reosarevok]
- But the artist system *is* a credit system
- 19:12:06 [reosarevok]
- (that's why, say, DJ Khaled gets an artist field even though he doesn't actually do anything musical)
- 19:12:08 [derwin]
- in my view, albums have an artist
- 19:12:27 [derwin]
- (and if you think blending music is not 'musical' that's a discussion for another time, lol)
- 19:12:48 [derwin]
- if the album has an artist, and the tracks feature guests
- 19:13:01 [derwin]
- I don't see why the guests are suddently credited as artists on the album
- 19:13:11 [derwin]
- it's still a method man album even if raekwon is on some tracks
- 19:13:16 [reosarevok]
- (does he do that? all I've read about it is more like "he joins some people to perform together")
- 19:13:19 [derwin]
- the track is still "by" method man
- 19:13:31 [reosarevok]
- It's a MM album, sure (which is why he's album artist)
- 19:13:49 [reosarevok]
- But the track gives a special attribution to Rae, after all
- 19:14:05 [reosarevok]
- (instead of listing it in the small print with "vocals, Raekwon")
- 19:14:13 [derwin]
- hrm, I guess I see your point...
- 19:14:47 [derwin]
- I guess it's actually righter to have it in the artist there
- 19:15:09 [derwin]
- although if you create a new entity that doesn't exist
- 19:15:18 [derwin]
- "Method Man featuring. Raekwon"
- 19:15:47 [reosarevok]
- Also, when they play that kind of stuff in a music video channel for example, I would say it tends to be given as "Method Man feat. Raekwon" - "song" (but I haven't watched musical TV in aaaaages)
- 19:16:13 [derwin]
- what I prefer about it being in the artist, I guess
- 19:16:23 [derwin]
- is that the two entities smooshed together there
- 19:16:24 [derwin]
- are the same
- 19:16:32 [derwin]
- versus in the title
- 19:16:42 [derwin]
- where a title and artist credit are being smooshed together
- 19:17:04 [reosarevok]
- Yeah
- 19:17:15 [derwin]
- so I'm all turned around on the subject
- 19:17:22 [derwin]
- better to smoosh similar entities when overloading
- 19:17:37 [reosarevok]
- Not that it's perfect, though (it might make sense to be able to actually credit -and link- a remixer in the title)
- 19:18:04 [reosarevok]
- (although there I see a point to just not link it except in the credits, too)
- 19:18:11 [reosarevok]
- But I do see it as better than before
- 19:18:13 [reosarevok]
- Aaanyway
- 19:18:18 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok goes back to catch pokémon
- 19:18:24 [derwin]
- well, in those cases, "blahblahblah remix" is often the *name* of the remix
- 19:18:29 [derwin]
- as well as the artist credit for the remix
- 19:19:04 [reosarevok]
- Yeah, that's why I said keep it in the title - and why I'm not too sure whether using it as a credit-ish thing is actually good or not
- 19:19:30 [reosarevok]
- Someone kill Twitter spammers
- 19:19:41 [derwin]
- kill soundcloud spammers too.
- 19:19:54 [reosarevok]
- Really?
- 19:19:58 [reosarevok]
- In SoundCloud?
- 19:20:08 [reosarevok]
- What's this, hipster spam?
- 19:20:29 [reosarevok]
- Well, I guess if they attacked MB, they don't care too much how *huge* the mass being spammed is :p
- 19:34:44 [CatCat]
- who is "siri"?
- 19:34:45 [andreypopp]
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- 19:34:47 [CatCat]
- ??
- 19:38:23 [andreypopp]
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- 19:41:33 [andreypopp]
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- 19:45:03 [reosarevok]
- Some iPhone voice thing
- 19:54:56 [djce]
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- 20:02:48 [CatCat]
- OH MY GOD THIS WAS AWESOME YOU GUYS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aGMxwxBOU&feature=related
- 20:13:55 [CallerNo6]
- I was sick of software (and chipset) "codenames" in 1998, and I want the world to know it. So there.
- 20:14:11 [CallerNo6]
- (no, that had nothing to do with anything... I just want to complain)
- 20:23:19 [andreypopp]
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- 21:44:46 [Munger]
- Would it be reasonable to change the quotes in this release title to smart quotes?
- 21:44:49 [Munger]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/218ded2c-f138-48f0-9b5c-8e53903553cc?tport=8000
- 21:45:42 [rjmunro]
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- 21:46:02 [Munger]
- ...even better, would it be possible to scan/update this sort of thing globally :-)
- 21:48:02 [reosarevok]
- Munger: yes to the first, less so to the second
- 21:48:11 [Leftmost]
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- 21:48:17 [andreypopp]
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- 21:48:34 [reosarevok]
- (it's hard to guess what every use of " - and even more so of ' - is because it's used for different things apart from quotes)
- 21:49:47 [ianmcorvidae]
- should be possible to add fancy quotes to guess case at least though
- 21:50:01 [Munger]
- SELECT count(*) FROM "mb"."release_name" WHERE "name" LIKE '%"%"%' returns 3678 hits
- 21:50:31 [ianmcorvidae]
- or add a report
- 21:50:56 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae: sure, once I can actually filter those I'd look into my subs :)
- 21:51:06 [yoasif]
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- 21:52:02 [Munger]
- It's not really an issue for me, but it makes file names prettier
- 21:54:34 [thread]
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- 21:54:46 [thread]
- hey all !
- 21:54:54 [thread]
- i'm wondering if anyone can hint me on UTF-8 flac tags?
- 21:55:03 [thread]
- i'm getting the "ordinal not in range(128)" message when trying to save flac files with extended characters in the tags.
- 21:55:18 [thread]
- … having trouble finding any hints on the google
- 21:59:56 [CatCat]
- fuck adding failquotes ti guesscase
- 22:00:29 [thread]
- failquotes ftw
- 22:01:11 [CatCat]
- not sure if awesome or not
- 22:03:19 [reosarevok]
- CatCat: why? For English, it should be not-too-hard
- 22:03:37 [reosarevok]
- FLAC users here, can you help thread?
- 22:03:41 [Mineo]
- thread: can you paste a complete traceback to something like paste.pocoo.org ?
- 22:04:04 [thread]
- Mineo: i'd love to
- 22:04:46 [reosarevok]
- Massive off-topic: Anyone here playing ME3 already? If so, opinions? :)
- 22:05:25 [Mineo]
- reosarevok: a friend of mine plays it. haven't talked to him since he got it, if you know what I mean ;)
- 22:05:39 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 22:05:43 [reosarevok]
- That's my fear, yeah
- 22:05:57 [reosarevok]
- Especially since I lost my ME 1 + 2 saves, so I'd have to play the 3 in a row... 8)
- 22:06:12 [andreypopp]
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- 22:06:23 [thread]
- Mineo: http://sprunge.us/KYKA
- 22:07:12 [thread]
- Mineo: actually, that looks like the file getting renamed part, not the tagging part, doesn't it ...
- 22:07:43 [thread]
- what's weird is that i have saved files (renamed -&- tagged) with funny accent chars before . . .
- 22:08:02 [thread]
- even chinese or russian etc characters
- 22:08:17 [thread]
- but a few different artists had the same issue today
- 22:10:59 [mchou]
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- 22:12:46 [ijabz]
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- 22:18:48 [Mineo]
- hmm, I honestly have no idea why that happens, especially if saving other files works perfectly fine
- 22:20:18 [andreypopp]
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- 22:21:05 [CatCat]
- * CatCat hates failquotes with a burning passion
- 22:21:35 [CatCat]
- thos right now I'm kinda scared/awed at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Ud0tSx1tw&feature=related
- 22:23:41 [andreypopp]
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- 22:27:45 [Mineo]
- and if anyone knows of a way to help demono in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/16751558, please go ahead and answer him :)
- 22:30:53 [reosarevok]
- Mineo, fine
- 22:31:25 [reosarevok]
- Will drop a couple links
- 22:31:52 [reosarevok]
- Oh, I saw you gave the scripts, then just docs
- 22:31:55 [andreypopp]
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- 22:34:21 [Mineo]
- yeah, but the scripts are not all that useful if the works are on different pages of the work list
- 22:40:59 [thread]
- Mineo: thanks for looking, anyway
- 22:41:41 [nikki]
- * nikki notes http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2006-April/002079.html from 6 years ago for people who think dvds shouldn't be added :P
- 22:41:43 [thread]
- is someone else perhaps better equipped to answer my (UTF-8 related) question ?
- 22:43:11 [thread]
- or .. any further thoughts on exactly what the problem step could be ?
- 22:50:36 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok wishes he could help but can't :(
- 22:50:41 [reosarevok]
- nikki: any ideas?
- 22:51:17 [nikki]
- thread: the only thing I can think of is that the locale is ascii and picard uses it to decide which encoding to write the filenames in
- 22:51:40 [nikki]
- 'cause I know picard can write unicode filenames, I do it all the time :/
- 22:52:23 [thread]
- is that a systemwide setting ?
- 22:53:43 [thread]
- sry for the lame question… & thanks for the direction to look
- 22:54:12 [nano-]
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- 22:55:25 [nikki]
- hm. not entirely sure how it works, I've always just set everything I could to utf-8
- 22:56:28 [nikki]
- (and it might not be the right answer, I don't know exactly how picard handles the filename stuff)
- 22:56:29 [jonnyjd]
- @thread: you are on what OS?
- 22:57:12 [ianmcorvidae]
- ianmcorvidae has joined #musicbrainz
- 22:57:13 [ianmcorvidae]
- ianmcorvidae has joined #musicbrainz
- 22:57:22 [thread]
- jonnyjd: arch linux
- 22:57:54 [andreypopp]
- andreypopp has joined #musicbrainz
- 22:57:58 [jonnyjd]
- hm, same as me. I also use flac and german umlauts, but I didn't do much with 0.16
- 22:58:15 [jonnyjd]
- Locale is normally set in /etc/rc.conf
- 22:58:19 [thread]
- i was on 0.16.4… and i just tried installing the picard-git aur
- 22:58:40 [jonnyjd]
- but can be set for every user different and even for every program. But normally it isn't
- 22:58:41 [thread]
- yeah… it def could be a change. i did a big upgrade / change to rc.conf the other day
- 22:59:31 [thread]
- ah.. good to know
- 22:59:38 [jonnyjd]
- Possibly the mounted fs can't handle UTF (samba share without utf set?), but I don't think picard would give an error like that, then
- 22:59:55 [thread]
- i'm vaguely familiar with it, but haven't played with it much
- 23:00:04 [thread]
- yeah, that does not seem to be the problem
- 23:01:06 [tenthirteen]
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- 23:01:58 [nikki]
- * nikki managed to reproduce it
- 23:05:02 [Mineo]
- and now you're not telling us how?:P
- 23:05:49 [nikki]
- no! >:P
- 23:05:53 [nikki]
- LC_ALL=C picard
- 23:06:12 [nikki]
- save anything with non-ascii, same error
- 23:06:20 [thread]
- ooh
- 23:06:21 [jonnyjd]
- in a terminal "echo $LANG" gives me de_DE.UTF-8" on arch
- 23:06:45 [nikki]
- or just "locale" in a terminal
- 23:06:48 [Mineo]
- but then thread would hopefully have seen the big warning that appears, right?
- 23:06:54 [jonnyjd]
- what have you set LOCALE in /etc/rc.conf?
- 23:08:32 [thread]
- yeah, i would totally check that right now, but i'm away from the system for a minute...
- 23:08:41 [thread]
- it sounds like this must be the problem… what should it be set to ?
- 23:09:07 [thread]
- en_US.UTF-8 ?
- 23:09:17 [jonnyjd]
- something with UTF in it. there is a list of options in /etc/locale.conf, I think
- 23:09:20 [thread]
- im a michigander :)
- 23:09:21 [jonnyjd]
- yes, that would be valid
- 23:09:33 [Mineo]
- /etc/locale.gen
- 23:09:53 [Mineo]
- /etc/locale.conf is the one that overwrites the locale setting in /etc/rc.conf
- 23:10:03 [thread]
- ah
- 23:10:10 [thread]
- thanks muches, dudes… i'll def report back in a little bit.
- 23:10:35 [Mineo]
- you also need to uncomment your desired locale in /etc/locale.gen and run locale-gen afterwards
- 23:12:00 [CatCat]
- reosarevok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBsHGstL6aU&feature=related
- 23:12:33 [reosarevok]
- srsly?
- 23:12:43 [CatCat]
- nyanrolled?
- 23:13:12 [CatCat]
- idk i am pretty tired and have a sore throat from dancing around =got tired and breathe
- 23:13:25 [CatCat]
- reosarevok: no, not srsly :)
- 23:13:31 [CatCat]
- very, very NOt srsly
- 23:13:37 [thread]
- oh snap… picard was totally giving me a warning when i launch it, too
- 23:13:46 [thread]
- * thread is pro at not reading stuff
- 23:13:49 [CatCat]
- i am listening to all the language versions for some reason
- 23:14:14 [CatCat]
- am disapoint at how few are actually "country themed" covers of the hyan song
- 23:16:03 [thread]
- score! fixing locale resolved it.
- 23:16:36 [thread]
- thanks again, everyone
- 23:16:49 [nikki]
- * nikki notes that you don't get a warning if you use non-ascii non-utf-8 locales
- 23:17:12 [thread]
- System locale charset is ANSI_X3.4-1968
- 23:17:20 [thread]
- Your system's locale charset (i.e. the charset used to encode filenames)
- 23:17:20 [thread]
- is set to ANSI_X3.4-1968. It is highly unlikely that this has been done
- 23:17:20 [thread]
- intentionally. Most likely the locale is not set at all. An invalid setting ...
- 23:17:27 [nikki]
- yes, I saw that when using an ascii one
- 23:17:41 [thread]
- ah, you said non-ascii
- 23:18:05 [nikki]
- but using a latin1 one locale and trying to save japanese stuff gives a similar error about the latin-1 codec
- 23:18:05 [CatCat]
- the music for norwegian nyan is fail XD
- 23:18:21 [CatCat]
- but LOL at cheeks being red & blue
- 23:18:34 [CatCat]
- fjell og rød låve ja jøss
- 23:18:51 [thread]
- heh
- 23:18:55 [CatCat]
- hmm i dunno maybe this song is kinda norwegian
- 23:19:01 [CatCat]
- it's pretty silly
- 23:25:01 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok shakes his head at people who did the Estonian one not calling it Estonyan Cat
- 23:40:28 [nikki]
- * nikki opened a ticket btw http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/PICARD-167
- 23:46:01 [thread]
- Nice :)
- 23:51:25 [CatCat]
- reosarevok: wow yea
- 23:51:54 [CatCat]
- :D