IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-05-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:14:18 [kepstin]
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00:33:24 [kepstin]
* kepstin just converted a 181kb pdf into a 3.6mb jpg to upload it to the CAA
00:36:06 [kepstin]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/36334ebc-20b4-469b-9b98-29eba8764688/cover-art - there we go.
00:37:45 [kepstin]
* kepstin should link one of those band pictures with the 'has a picture at' AR into the CAA.
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01:15:15 [brianfreud]
Does the CAA have a logo?
01:37:47 [kepstin]
nope
01:38:30 [kepstin]
it does have a pretty sweet purple background on its website.
01:41:20 [kepstin]
* kepstin loves how http://archive.org/details/mbid-2592c7ed-1412-4895-b4a6-d9270ddc23fd is on the 'most downloaded' list on the sidebar of http://archive.org/details/coverartarchive
02:46:16 [ianweller]
* ianweller yawns
02:54:59 [brianfreud]
Anyone know why there's a #_ at the end of this attribute? resource="[mbz:release/7d166a44-cfb5-4b08-aacb-6863bbe677d6#_]"
02:55:52 [ianweller]
where's that from?
02:56:06 [brianfreud]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/5b11f4ce-a62d-471e-81fc-a69a8278c7da/releases
02:56:18 [brianfreud]
in any of the release anchors
02:56:45 [brianfreud]
same in the release anchors and the following spans on http://musicbrainz.org/artist/5b11f4ce-a62d-471e-81fc-a69a8278c7da
02:57:12 [ianweller]
* ianweller blames RDF
02:57:30 [brianfreud]
* brianfreud adds .replace('#_','') to the script he's working on :P
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04:57:20 [ruaok]
FYI search indexes will be updated once more, then nothing until 3 hours after the release: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1396
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05:54:15 [voiceinsideyou]
probably not going to get any bites here, but anyone use MediaMonkey on Windows, monitoring a NAS/UNC share alongside Picard?
06:00:38 [voiceinsideyou]
Having problems with the file monitor not picking u new files; not sure if it's to do with the way Picard moves files or what - in theory it should work since both MM and Picard are on the same PC
06:04:26 [voiceinsideyou]
tried making sure both Picard and MediaMonkey moving to/watching UNC paths, but no dice :(
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07:05:39 [CatCat]
hawke_1: well it's better than before. but it stil has live and soundtrack messed up with the others :P
07:05:52 [CatCat]
and singles and ep's are "nowhere"
07:05:57 [CatCat]
but yes, better than before
07:06:12 [hawke_1]
CatCat: IMO that’s OK as long as they are official, non-compilation soundtracks and live albums
07:07:05 [CatCat]
yes iYo, but i am used ot seeeing "discograpich" headers
07:07:08 [CatCat]
i rather like those
07:07:34 [CatCat]
and if we are doing it that way, it is a crime to not include "quen greatest hits I and II"
07:07:59 [CatCat]
they are sa comps, but proper "discograpy by the band" comps
07:08:13 [CatCat]
not cheap tecto bought
07:08:17 [CatCat]
tesko
07:08:19 [CatCat]
whatever
07:08:24 [hawke_1]
Eh, I disagree. :-)
07:08:48 [CatCat]
wellyou don't know this band so I'll exuse you (if you DO know this band no exuses!)
07:08:54 [hawke_1]
I do. :-)
07:08:59 [CatCat]
psh
07:09:03 [CatCat]
clearly you do not
07:09:04 [hawke_1]
Greatest hits is a very nice GH album.
07:09:22 [CatCat]
iot's part of the official discography
07:09:44 [nikki]
* nikki thinks the whole problem is that what someone expects to see depends on what the person is looking for and what sort of artist it is in the first place, so nothing we do will ever suit everyone
07:09:59 [CatCat]
I have this.. i don't know wich one. probably several ,where all the releases cover's are i naneat list of first to last. and Greratest hits I and II are always with them
07:10:01 [hawke_1]
CatCat: What does that even mean?
07:10:14 [hawke_1]
“part of the official discography”?
07:10:19 [CatCat]
see my note
07:10:25 [CatCat]
they list thme with the other albums
07:10:30 [hawke_1]
Where?
07:10:35 [CatCat]
but yes ,they also include live at wembly and the like
07:11:09 [CatCat]
in an album, in some liner notes they might have at the back a list of all the relerases. and with images of the covers
07:11:36 [CatCat]
Greatest hits I and II are always with the others (including live killers and wembly so yea) in order of their release
07:11:38 [hawke_1]
Now, if someone wanted to make an analyzer which would report all the releases you'd have to buy to get every recording and just list those, that would be nice too
07:11:53 [hawke_1]
What about GH III? :-p
07:12:10 [CatCat]
no, that isn't listed and was released after Freddy dieed
07:12:25 [CatCat]
I'm a bit on edge abotu that one as it also includes cover stuff and not just queen
07:12:26 [jesus2099]
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07:12:42 [CatCat]
also Queen greatest flix is included often :P
07:12:44 [jesus2099]
argh the forums, still deads
07:12:53 [CatCat]
dang, once i sort out my cd's i'll scan it and show you
07:12:58 [CatCat]
hello jesus2099
07:13:06 [hawke_1]
CatCat: I don’t see a good way to determine this sort of thing automatically anyway.
07:13:22 [jesus2099]
Hi ChatChat !
07:13:51 [CatCat]
hawke_1: probably not, but THIS is what I (and reosarevok?) was talking about earlier re comps beign i nthel ist
07:14:07 [CatCat]
this is why i would liek a way to set a flag or setting of "is "official official"
07:14:56 [hawke_1]
CatCat: that doesn’t make sense. :-)
07:15:23 [CatCat]
i just explained what I mean
07:15:38 [CatCat]
it makes perfect sense
07:15:54 [CatCat]
tho after thinking, having both live in the list as well as albums probasbly makes sense
07:15:55 [hawke_1]
CatCat: “official official”?
07:16:01 [CatCat]
most bands list these together and not separate
07:16:15 [CatCat]
i can't make things italic i nthe chat hawke_1
07:16:17 [hawke_1]
I mean, that is so problematic
07:16:38 [hawke_1]
What if a release appears on one liner note listing all releases and not another?
07:17:01 [CatCat]
the nit's i nthe liner note of a release wher it hasn't been released yet, cronologically
07:17:28 [CatCat]
or else they always do include it (if they include anything)
07:17:30 [hawke_1]
I mean a later release
07:17:42 [hawke_1]
if a band decides not to include a release any more
07:17:43 [CatCat]
then it's included, or none of them are
07:17:50 [CatCat]
why woudl they do that?
07:17:51 [hawke_1]
or the label decides not to market it that way
07:17:52 [hawke_1]
or whatever
07:18:19 [CatCat]
pull a scientific earth with "pluto isn't a palnet anymore?" liek "we used ot count this as one of our releases, but now we changed our minds"?
07:18:33 [hawke_1]
but is it *official* official then?
07:18:36 [CatCat]
that.. doesn't really happen
07:18:41 [hawke_1]
bullshit. :-p
07:18:49 [hawke_1]
maybe not for queen specifically
07:19:02 [CatCat]
well I am talkign like queen
07:19:07 [CatCat]
deep purple
07:19:10 [hawke_1]
but even for queen I bet there is an inconsistency
07:19:11 [CatCat]
whitesnake uriah heep
07:19:20 [CatCat]
not for Greates hits I and II
07:19:43 [hawke_1]
Have you looked at every version of every Queen release?
07:20:06 [CatCat]
i pretty much have all the albums exept the higlander soundtrack and hot space so uh yea
07:20:20 [CatCat]
and i nthose wher anything is included, they are both incuded
07:20:49 [hawke_1]
anyway, silly argument "official official" is not going to be meaningful, consistent, or accurate across many artists.
07:21:21 [CatCat]
it was written in gosebumps. so i meant it ias a "saying"..
07:21:40 [CatCat]
i didn't mean for this to be the term we use, the way we do it or naything like
07:21:41 [hawke_1]
A flag to mark a release as being extra-official. :-)
07:21:44 [CatCat]
you semantic idiot
07:21:46 [hawke_1]
the concept is flawed
07:21:47 [hawke_1]
not the term
07:22:04 [hawke_1]
* hawke_1 is off to bed
07:22:17 [CatCat]
"OR ANTYHING LIKE" do yo ueven read what I am saying
07:22:19 [CatCat]
god
07:22:30 [CatCat]
i was tryign to explain a thing that bothers me
07:23:56 [CatCat]
you really think there is no difference between "greatest hits II" and "Queen Collection" (wich isn't listed anywhere and I had to look up)
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07:30:16 [hawke_1]
CatCat: Ah, in that case — that you weren’t suggesting we try to filter on something like that — OK, I get you and can understand where you’re coming from. :-)
07:30:23 [hawke_1]
* hawke_1 is off to bed for real
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09:52:36 [warp]
yay. re-downloading of iTunes music purchases is now finally available here in .nl
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10:58:16 [marianaaf]
hey! doubt here: http://www.subpop.com/releases/obits/singles/let_me_dream_if_i_want_to http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZHG0W8 would you add this single as "Let Me Dream If I Want To" or as "Let Me Dream If I Want To b/w The City Is Dead"?
10:59:11 [nikki]
* nikki would use the former
11:00:08 [reosarevok]
If the latter, "Let Me Dream if I Want To / The City Is Dead"
11:00:13 [reosarevok]
(not b/w)
11:00:21 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok would agree with both options
11:00:51 [marianaaf]
in itunes appears "Let Me Dream if I Want To"
11:01:16 [marianaaf]
but well, on the bands site and on subpop appears with both songs, but maybe that's because it reffers to 7''
11:01:52 [reosarevok]
Yeah, I could see people using both for the 7" and one for digital
11:01:55 [reosarevok]
Dunno
11:02:23 [nikki]
I don't see both on the subpop site
11:02:46 [marianaaf]
no on subpop I can only find the 7''
11:04:30 [marianaaf]
hum if I add both with different names, waht about the RG?
11:05:54 [reosarevok]
I don't know. If you want, just add both as "Let Me Dream if I Want To"
11:06:02 [reosarevok]
If anyone feels it should have both, they can change it
11:06:30 [marianaaf]
ok
11:06:35 [marianaaf]
thanks
11:08:01 [reosarevok]
Oh, marianaaf: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17625154
11:08:19 [reosarevok]
Not wrong, but next time you can just press "info" and edit the URL :)
11:08:26 [reosarevok]
(one edit instead of two)
11:09:51 [marianaaf]
oh I actually pressed but didn't notice that it was under the tab edit
11:09:52 [marianaaf]
thanks!
11:10:27 [marianaaf]
(on overview I couldn't find out how to edit so I did that way, sorry)
11:11:09 [reosarevok]
Nah, a lot of people can't find it
11:11:12 [reosarevok]
It's pretty hidden
11:11:12 [marianaaf]
I can cancel the edit and do it right now
11:11:17 [reosarevok]
And your way works too
11:11:20 [reosarevok]
Nah, no need
11:11:23 [marianaaf]
ok ;)
11:11:29 [reosarevok]
It just saves time
11:11:37 [reosarevok]
(if you cancel and re-do. that's wasting it :D)
11:11:50 [marianaaf]
eheh yes it is
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11:50:19 [brianfreud]
Think of the precious edit numbers! We must save them! :D
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14:06:08 [marianaaf]
hey again: in this case: http://www.amazon.com/Only-The-Horses-Remixes/dp/B0080H7O36 http://www.amazon.com/Only-The-Horses/dp/B0080H7W88 same RG or two?
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14:33:14 [hawke_1]
Can I get some votes on http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17625007 please?
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14:40:38 [jesus2099]
marianaaf, I would put them in the same RG :)
14:42:34 [jesus2099]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Release_Group#Other_situations says no rules can be put in same or in diff., if in doubt → separate releases. But as I have no doubt, I put them in same
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14:49:08 [marianaaf]
there already is the remix one, under EP type. in the case of both under the same RG, I would add both under single. what do you think?
14:51:13 [reosarevok]
4 remixes of a single sounds like a single to me
14:53:11 [marianaaf]
I'll edit it then
14:53:12 [marianaaf]
thanks
14:53:46 [marianaaf]
oh my mistake. the one added here in MB has a fourth different track, http://musicbrainz.org/release/70b37703-26e7-42fd-b743-4a1dd899a8e6
14:54:08 [reosarevok]
heh
14:54:20 [reosarevok]
I would probably still call that a single (with a b side or whatever)
14:54:46 [reosarevok]
But yeah - makes me wonder how many different versions they'll put out on the hope fans will buy them all :p
14:54:49 [marianaaf]
ok (noticed that on itunes they call it EP so that's because why. will change it and add in the same RG the single with one track
14:54:52 [marianaaf]
thanks
14:58:22 [hawke_]
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15:01:28 [marianaaf]
here it is http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17635220
15:02:00 [hawke_]
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15:06:32 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 still has “502 Bad Gateway” like everyday since NGS day one — http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-3610
15:11:51 [derwin]
reosarevok : pearl jam had stickers they put on import singles that said 'same as the lower price domestic version'
15:19:54 [CallerNo6]
but the sticker made it more valuable?
15:20:09 [mat_]
hum, could I get quick votes for http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17635314 and http://musicbrainz.org/release/99e6139b-13f8-4a9f-9778-265b2c908530 the recordings pointing to the tracks were wrong in both cases
15:23:25 [AEtherSurfer]
acoustid is rejecting my musicbrainz user name
15:23:57 [AEtherSurfer]
ÆtherSurfer
15:24:32 [nikki]
* nikki prods luks
15:25:11 [AEtherSurfer]
http://musicbrainz.org/user/%C3%86therSurfer
15:25:42 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae wonders if it's doing the utf-8-encoding wrong or something
15:26:15 [AEtherSurfer]
that would be my guess
15:26:32 [AEtherSurfer]
musicbrainz accepted it just fine
15:26:35 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae goes code spelunking
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15:29:01 [AEtherSurfer]
maybe if I hmm.... %C3%86therSurfer
15:29:20 [derwin]
also, your nick is antiscoial.
15:29:22 [derwin]
social
15:29:32 [AEtherSurfer]
dooh
15:29:35 [ianmcorvidae]
AEtherSurfer: have you ever used the user-tags, collections, etc. features via the WS?
15:29:37 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work can type Æther just fine.
15:29:54 [AEtherSurfer]
i have
15:30:00 [derwin]
kepstin-work : yeah, I'm sure I could FIGURE OUT how to type it too
15:30:09 [ianmcorvidae]
Æ
15:30:13 [ianmcorvidae]
compose key is nice :P
15:30:13 [kepstin-work]
it's just Compose+A+E :)
15:30:14 [Leftmost]
Æ
15:30:22 [AEtherSurfer]
with the clientid from the docs
15:30:23 [Leftmost]
Compose is the best.
15:30:24 [derwin]
"compose" key?
15:30:56 [AEtherSurfer]
on windows i hold [Alt] while typing 0198
15:31:00 [kepstin-work]
derwin: unix thing. Makes typing accents and some symbols and stuff really easy, by "composing" multiple keys together
15:31:05 [ianmcorvidae]
AEtherSurfer: yeah, just checking to make sure it's not an MB problem, acoustid uses a /ws/2/release?inc=user-tags request to check MB logins :P
15:31:45 [AEtherSurfer]
ah
15:31:47 [kepstin-work]
e.g. "Compose t m" is ™, "Compose - >" is →, "Compose ' e" is é
15:31:55 [AEtherSurfer]
so i have no MB submissions yet
15:32:25 [ianmcorvidae]
it should be fine even if you don't actually have any tags, it requires login anyway
15:32:29 [Leftmost]
You can do dotless i too. ı
15:32:39 [kepstin-work]
also does fancy quotes “” and dashes — – too.
15:33:01 [Leftmost]
ianmcorvidae, kepstin-work, you guys are nerds. :)
15:33:17 [ianmcorvidae]
AEtherSurfer: the way to test would be to try: ætherSurfer
15:33:56 [AEtherSurfer]
ætherSurfer is a no go
15:34:10 [ianmcorvidae]
hm
15:34:12 [derwin]
Eitherserver
15:34:13 [AEtherSurfer]
for login
15:34:17 [nikki]
I get an error trying to log in with my various unicode accounts too
15:34:18 [AEtherSurfer]
to acoustid
15:34:22 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae continues trying to spelunk then
15:34:40 [ianmcorvidae]
it could just be that python2/unicode makes some super-stupid assumptions
15:34:55 [ianmcorvidae]
that luks didn't fix because most people don't have unicode account names :(
15:35:19 [AEtherSurfer]
i was kind of surprised that musicbrainz let me use
15:35:23 [AEtherSurfer]
Æ
15:35:34 [ianmcorvidae]
musicbrainz allows a lot of crazy things in usernames, heh
15:35:53 [nikki]
you're the one that has to be able to type it, not us ;)
15:35:56 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work wonders if he could put a / in a username
15:36:18 [nikki]
there are editors with / in their name, yes
15:37:03 [ianmcorvidae]
anyway I think the issue is https://github.com/lalinsky/acoustid-server/blob/master/acoustid/website.py#L174 probably isn't doing any encoding/decoding, so it may be failing there
15:37:14 [ianmcorvidae]
unfortunately python2 defaults to ASCII
15:37:30 [kepstin-work]
aww, it url-encodes the / to %2F, so I can't make a user in a subdirectory of a user.
15:37:34 [ianmcorvidae]
which means that even my manually-utf8-encoded string fails, since we tested that
15:37:37 [ianmcorvidae]
haha
15:37:48 [kepstin-work]
actually, it's just horribly broken altogether
15:38:03 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work made a user 'kepstin/bot', and its user page is inaccessible
15:38:19 [kepstin-work]
http://musicbrainz.org/user/kepstin%2Fbot and http://musicbrainz.org/user/kepstin/bot both just go to 'kepstin'
15:38:20 [nikki]
ticket! :P
15:39:41 [nikki]
we have a similar ticket for tags
15:39:51 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, it's doing CaptureArgs and that splits on slashes
15:40:09 [nikki]
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4058
15:41:02 [kepstin-work]
maybe we should just give all the editors uuids.
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15:42:47 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work makes http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4714
15:43:05 [nikki]
* nikki links it to the one for tag
15:43:05 [nikki]
s
15:44:05 [nikki]
"sometimes inaccessible"?
15:44:16 [nikki]
does that mean it sometimes decides to work? :P
15:44:43 [kepstin-work]
hmm. I suppose I could delete the sometimes.
15:45:10 [AEtherSurfer]
when acoustid returns a score what is that score in relation to?
15:45:36 [kepstin-work]
AEtherSurfer: it's how close the acoustid fingerprint match is.
15:45:43 [AEtherSurfer]
match to what?
15:46:26 [kepstin-work]
It's saying "the audio in the file you just scanned is an xx% match to the fingerprint we have stored"
15:47:11 [AEtherSurfer]
so there is an authoritative fingerprint corresponding to an MB recordingid?
15:48:09 [kepstin-work]
there can be multiple authoritative fingerprints for an MB recording. When you press the 'submit' button in picard, it will link the fingerprint for the file you just scanned as a new authoritative fingerprint for that recording.
15:48:44 [AEtherSurfer]
how does picard know you have accurate tags?
15:48:52 [kepstin-work]
it doesn't?
15:49:09 [AEtherSurfer]
then how can my submissions be considered authoritative?
15:49:13 [ianmcorvidae]
it trusts you to match to the correct album before hitting "submit"
15:49:22 [ianmcorvidae]
acoustid is a user-edited database like musicbrainz
15:49:32 [ianmcorvidae]
you could say the same of anything on MB
15:49:47 [ianmcorvidae]
if wrong things get linked, note, it is perfectly possible to unlink them -- acoustid has editing
15:50:20 [AEtherSurfer]
so the score is a confidence match against all authoritative chromaprints?
15:51:33 [kepstin-work]
pretty much, yeah
15:52:02 [derwin]
in most cases there is one chromaprint
15:52:07 [derwin]
and it is authoritative
15:52:48 [AEtherSurfer]
is there some process that reduces submissions down to one authoritative chromaprint?
15:53:05 [ianmcorvidae]
there's a similarity metric, so a given acoustid can be related to several fingerprints
15:53:24 [ianmcorvidae]
which is usually true, e.g., for different encodings of the same song
15:53:27 [kepstin-work]
AEtherSurfer: when you submit a fingerprint, it will only be stored separately if it's considered "different enough" from any existing stored fingerprints.
15:53:53 [AEtherSurfer]
interesting
15:54:13 [luks]
AEtherSurfer: I think the login issue should be fxed now
15:54:23 [AEtherSurfer]
checking
15:54:39 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work would try to find some interesting examples, but doesn't know any offhand, and is too busy with work to go searching.
15:55:01 [AEtherSurfer]
still rejected
15:55:11 [AEtherSurfer]
let me double check my password
15:55:22 [luks]
fails on a different error now :/
15:55:25 [nikki]
luks: works for me
15:55:26 [kepstin-work]
AEtherSurfer: the acoustid web interface is kind of neat, because you can see exactly how fingerprints are associated with musicbrainz recordings, and even see a graphical representation of the fingerprints.
15:55:54 [nikki]
mine are japanese characters though, maybe it's latin1 stuff that messes with it?
15:55:56 [AEtherSurfer]
i was looking for the graphical compare
15:56:01 [AEtherSurfer]
i did not see it before
15:57:01 [AEtherSurfer]
luks: password confrimed, still rejected
15:57:14 [kepstin-work]
I don't think there's actually any tools that will show you a graphical comparison of acoustids right now
15:57:34 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work just opens up multiple fingerprint images in tabs and switches between them :)
15:57:37 [ianmcorvidae]
AEtherSurfer: note, also, you should look at luks' blog for more details on acoustid things
15:57:39 [luks]
"HTTP Error 401: digest auth failed" is so useless
15:57:40 [ianmcorvidae]
e.g.: http://oxygene.sk/lukas/2011/12/inside-the-acoustid-server/
15:57:52 [AEtherSurfer]
kepstin-work: what is the url for the image?
15:58:27 [AEtherSurfer]
ianmcorvidae: thanks for the link
15:59:00 [kepstin-laptop]
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15:59:03 [AEtherSurfer]
can a compressed chromaprint be decompressed to the raw list of ints?
15:59:35 [luks]
yes
15:59:38 [kepstin-laptop]
AEtherSurfer: yes - the compression is just to transfer it over the internet faster.
15:59:45 [luks]
but there is no command-line / ui tool for that
15:59:50 [AEtherSurfer]
oh cool
16:00:01 [kepstin-laptop]
AEtherSurfer: http://acoustid.org/track/28bb30a5-190f-4566-830b-7fb313ee6ff7 is an example - if you click on one of the fingerprint IDs at the top, you can see the image.
16:00:22 [luks]
it requires a browser with canvas support though
16:00:31 [kepstin-laptop]
huh, they're not actually images?
16:00:35 [luks]
no
16:00:36 [kepstin-laptop]
interesting.
16:00:41 [luks]
they are generates in JS
16:00:50 [luks]
*generated
16:01:11 [kepstin-laptop]
that's kind of neat - it just passes an array of integers to javascript.
16:01:33 [AEtherSurfer]
chrome ftw
16:02:03 [nikki]
* nikki is surprised that they're not actually images too
16:02:04 [luks]
AEtherSurfer: just to make sure, can you please try to log in here? http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist/89ad4ac3-39f7-470e-963a-56509c546377?inc=user-tags
16:02:13 [AEtherSurfer]
is there a decompress for js?
16:02:39 [luks]
hm, what do you mean?
16:02:57 [AEtherSurfer]
luks: rejected
16:03:06 [luks]
so it seems a MB problem
16:03:49 [AEtherSurfer]
like if i wanted to create a web page that gets compressed chromaprints via ajax, the js could decompress and then render them
16:04:18 [luks]
ah, that would be a bit complicated
16:04:48 [luks]
you would need to either write the decompression algo in js or add a web service call to acoustid to decompress it for you
16:05:10 [luks]
so it's not easily possible at the moment
16:05:15 [kepstin-laptop]
is there even a webservice call that returns the chromaprint at all right now?
16:05:17 [AEtherSurfer]
luks: i would like to avoid loading the acoustid server unneccesarily
16:05:25 [luks]
kepstin-laptop: no
16:06:07 [luks]
the algorithm is not complicated, but it requires quite a lot of bit manipulation
16:06:29 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop supposes that not using images on the chromaprint display pages on the website stops people from hotlinking your images :)
16:06:40 [AEtherSurfer]
could always rip the chromaprint from http://acoustid.org/fingerprint/16491879
16:08:13 [AEtherSurfer]
luks: one more question for you
16:08:21 [kepstin-work]
that would be pretty hard - I doubt that luks has set up CORS so people can ajax-load that page, and even if you could, you'd have to parse out the javascript code from it.
16:08:44 [AEtherSurfer]
luks: would it be bad to try to setup an acoustid clone inside of an MB vm?
16:08:59 [luks]
it would be very hard :)
16:09:13 [luks]
and it would need the VM to be quite huge
16:09:23 [AEtherSurfer]
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Server/Setup
16:10:03 [kepstin-work]
luks: what kind of disk/ram usage are you looking at on the acoustid server right now?
16:10:08 [jmvanel]
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16:10:17 [kepstin-work]
(is it just one server, or replicated?)
16:11:00 [luks]
just one server for now, with one stand-by slave in something happens to the master
16:11:03 [AEtherSurfer]
how big are the acoustid dumps these days?
16:11:38 [luks]
to be anything useful, the server really needs at least 24GB of RAM, ideally the whole database should be also on SSD disks
16:11:47 [dubwai]
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16:12:04 [luks]
and the full DB (which includes all submissions) is about 200GB now
16:12:21 [kepstin-work]
looks like the /compressed/ download is still 46gb for just the db.
16:12:50 [kepstin-work]
that's a pretty hefty database.
16:12:57 [ddaydj_]
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16:13:31 [AEtherSurfer]
whats the url for the acoustid dumps?
16:13:39 [luks]
http://acoustid.org/data/
16:13:54 [AEtherSurfer]
404'd
16:14:02 [Dremora_]
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16:14:02 [AEtherSurfer]
oops forgot the /
16:14:09 [luks]
kepstin-work: the largest problem dealing with that is backups
16:14:24 [luks]
I was so used to just taking the full dump of my databases regularly
16:14:39 [kepstin-work]
luks: I suppose the best way to back that up would be to use a master/slave replicated db.
16:14:47 [luks]
yep, that's what I ended up with
16:15:01 [AEtherSurfer]
how many acoustid slaves are there these days?
16:15:01 [luks]
with full backups once a month based on the slave
16:15:12 [luks]
AEtherSurfer: none
16:15:20 [luks]
well, one, but it's not actively used
16:15:27 [luks]
it's just a stand-by backup
16:15:38 [AEtherSurfer]
are there any third party slaves?
16:15:42 [luks]
no
16:16:00 [AEtherSurfer]
anyone know how many third party mb slaves there are
16:16:24 [kepstin-work]
AEtherSurfer: countless; since it's trivial to set up your own in a virtual machine :)
16:16:44 [luks]
just I have about 4 :)
16:16:53 [AEtherSurfer]
does acoustid expect the mbslave to be on the same machine?
16:16:55 [luks]
I'm not even sure right now :)
16:17:05 [luks]
AEtherSurfer: it needs a MB database
16:17:19 [luks]
it doesn't matter what updates it from where, but the database must be on the same machine
16:17:30 [luks]
so it can cross-join it
16:17:31 [AEtherSurfer]
as the acoustid DB grows do the RAM reqs increase?
16:18:37 [luks]
sure, they do, but not too quickly
16:19:09 [luks]
the main index, which must be completely in ram is less than 10GB now
16:19:19 [luks]
so the rest is just for postgresql cache
16:19:27 [AEtherSurfer]
ah ok
16:19:34 [luks]
and since I'm using ssh disks, even disk access is not that slow
16:19:40 [nikki]
luks: hmm... will mbslave need updating for the schema change?
16:19:46 [luks]
nikki: yep
16:20:12 [nikki]
will you be doing that today?
16:20:30 [luks]
yes, I was hoping to
16:20:42 [AEtherSurfer]
so i should probably create a more vanila mb account so i can register for an acoustid api key then
16:21:07 [luks]
AEtherSurfer: I'd suggest to use your google/yahoo/etc account
16:21:16 [luks]
and I can link it to the MB user manually
16:21:27 [AEtherSurfer]
oh ok i will do that then
16:21:45 [luks]
nikki: well, the code will not need any changes, but it's just a matter of running the right sql scripts to get the schem up to date
16:21:53 [ruaok]
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16:21:54 [luks]
and the scripts come from the mb_server anyway
16:22:03 [nikki]
ah
16:22:33 [luks]
I didn't see the actual changes, hoping to not find any big surprises there :)
16:25:56 [nikki]
* nikki was just wondering 'cause she won't have time tomorrow
16:26:39 [AEtherSurfer]
luks:registered
16:35:00 [luks]
nikki: hm, it looks like upgrading the schema with mbslave won't be possible this time :(
16:35:31 [luks]
I don't think I can find time to remove mbserver dependencies from 20120406-update-language-codes.pl
16:35:37 [nikki]
ah :/
16:38:00 [nikki]
hmm. if it's just the language table, I wonder if it'd be possible to just drop the table and recreate it
16:38:24 [nikki]
* nikki doesn't fancy installing all the mbserver dependencies
16:39:12 [luks]
well, me neither
16:39:46 [luks]
I'll probably do the upgrade on my mb vm and copy the table to servers I update with mblsave
16:39:57 [ianmcorvidae]
I'm planning to just do a drop/reload for everything, myself
16:40:05 [nikki]
* nikki wasn't expecting you to
16:40:15 [nikki]
I was just wondering if doing that would work
16:40:24 [nikki]
I can pester ianmcorvidae for a copy of the table! >:D
16:40:28 [luks]
yes, it should work fine
16:40:40 [ianmcorvidae]
nikki: well, presumably it'll be on rika, you'll be able to get it for yourself :P
16:40:44 [luks]
it would be great if we could get the dump somewhere public
16:40:52 [luks]
so that I can add it to the upgrade process for mbslave
16:41:07 [ianmcorvidae]
of just the language table, you mean?
16:41:10 [nikki]
yeah
16:41:15 [luks]
yes, sql file with truncate + inserts
16:44:20 [nikki]
and the alter table bits too?
16:45:01 [hawke_]
“derwin: in most cases there is one chromaprint and it is authoritative” — hahahahahaha
16:45:17 [hawke_]
(quoting only an hour after the statement)
16:45:38 [luks]
nikki: the schema changes are already in a separate sql script
16:45:47 [luks]
the perl script does only updates, from what I can see
16:45:52 [nikki]
ahh
16:46:00 [nikki]
* nikki understands it now
16:46:47 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, I think the perl script does things like adding 'qaa' as the iso_code_3 for the 'art' row
16:47:00 [ianmcorvidae]
and changing names when there are conflicts
16:48:04 [hawke_]
Have we ever figured out if/how we can fully clean up the coverartarchive old data?
16:48:33 [hawke_]
(http://archive.org/details/coverartarchive )
16:48:48 [hawke_]
e.g. http://archive.org/details/mbid-013d0da8-2cd5-443a-a092-7c3854e00a8f
16:49:33 [warp]
luks: updates and inserts.
16:50:49 [warp]
(it reads from iso-639-3_20120228.tab and will update existing rows with the part 3 code, and insert new rows for the rest)
16:51:30 [ocharles]
hawke_: no, I'm working on that now
16:51:45 [hawke_]
ocharles: Oh, cool.
16:51:59 [luks]
right, so we just need to persuade somebody to take a pg_dump of that table right after running upgrade.sh :)
16:54:05 [warp]
or, you know, you could run the script?
16:54:26 [ianmcorvidae]
not without all the mbserver dependencies :P
16:54:33 [ianmcorvidae]
this is for mbslave
16:55:01 [warp]
ok
16:59:17 [CatCat]
lol for usign a compose key or Æ
16:59:22 [CatCat]
* CatCat has an Æ key :P
17:03:30 [CatCat]
ÆÆÆÆÆ
17:06:30 [Dremora_]
* Dremora_ was planning to go to bed, but instead is going to wait for the new release
17:06:43 [hawke_]
No fair, it took you only five keystrokes to do that.
17:07:08 [CatCat]
what me?
17:07:13 [CatCat]
hæ?
17:07:15 [CatCat]
:P
17:07:30 [CatCat]
is this for splittign or what is it http://musicbrainz.org/artist/29318ba9-f303-4cc7-856f-0721a2f61dea/relationships
17:22:22 [reosarevok_]
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17:22:26 [CatCat]
hi reosarevok
17:27:27 [hawke_]
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17:45:15 [hawke_]
Anyone have an opinion on http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17627974 ?
17:45:33 [hawke_]
I agree that the release is likely crap, but deleting it seems a bit extreme
17:46:53 [noobie]
good evening
17:48:24 [the_metalgamer]
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17:51:45 [hawke_]
Grumble…I hate ISRCs. All evidence suggests that http://musicbrainz.org/recording/a395d484-58db-4014-a194-9cf5ebdcd3ba and http://musicbrainz.org/recording/ace313b2-26c6-4df6-82d6-716abe0819ba are the same, and yet if I try to merge them someone will scream about the different ISRCs
17:52:50 [pankkake]
thank god I listen only to obscure music without ISRCs :p
17:54:19 [hawke_]
I just wish people would stop caring about that crap.
17:55:17 [pankkake]
I don't know what to do with most merge recording edits, so I abstain
17:55:55 [pankkake]
PUIDs/Acoustids should be more visible
17:57:28 [JoeLlama]
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17:57:39 [Dremora]
I'm wondering why ISRC of the first recording has year field set to 06
17:58:11 [Dremora]
probably because it doesn't really belong to first two releases (both from 97)
17:58:53 [Dremora]
so it's all mixed up anyway, I would have merged them
17:59:12 [Dremora]
unless
17:59:20 [nikki]
it could mean that was the first time it was assigned an isrc
17:59:28 [Dremora]
wasn't all Depeche Mode discography remastered in 2006?
17:59:28 [nikki]
it could also mean the 2006 one is a remaster
18:00:03 [drsaunde]
hawke: please merge those there are many many legitimate same recordings with many different ISRCs
18:02:16 [hawke_]
drsaunde: Yes.
18:02:27 [drsaunde]
just as its very common for the same isrc to be issued to very different recordings
18:02:37 [hawke_]
drsaunde: But identifying when that is the case and getting evidence for it is nearly impossible
18:02:46 [Dremora]
shouldn't we split remasters from original recordings?
18:02:58 [hawke_]
and that’s without getting into how remasters are often indistinguishable from the original
18:03:05 [drsaunde]
the emphasis i see from people on that database by mb people troubles me, i've seen so much errors and inconsistencies, yet people treat it like gospel
18:03:36 [drsaunde]
easy, remasters should always be the same recording, problem solved
18:03:51 [hawke_]
same recording as the original as long as they sound the same?
18:03:55 [hawke_]
Sounds reasonable to me.
18:03:55 [Dremora]
haha
18:04:14 [Dremora]
well, I would probably agree
18:04:29 [hawke_]
of course, "sounds the same" is totally subjective
18:04:56 [drsaunde]
the record labels don't even know what "remastering" is, so how are we supposed to? It's just marketing anyway, we should stay out of that imho
18:05:33 [hawke_]
lol
18:05:34 [hawke_]
yes
18:05:44 [Dremora]
but what about relating recordings to mastering engineer?
18:06:20 [hawke_]
Dremora: If we actually have a different credit then that’s a good reason to keep them separate. Most of the time, we don’t.
18:06:34 [Dremora]
drsaunde: the record labels don't even know what "remastering" is
18:06:49 [Dremora]
well, I am pretty sure there is no such thing as remastering
18:06:55 [Dremora]
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18:07:20 [Dremora_]
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18:07:24 [Dremora_]
doh
18:08:06 [drsaunde]
mastering credits should be release based and not recording based...i've been saying that for a while
18:08:39 [drsaunde]
i've seen different mastering engineers (3) for CD, vinyl and cassette versions of the same album released at the same time in the same country
18:08:57 [drsaunde]
technically every different medium when have in the database contains new mastering
18:08:59 [warp]
drsaunde: I'd say those should be seperate recordings then.
18:09:24 [drsaunde]
so then everything in the database is separate recordings and we should scrap recordings alltogether
18:09:28 [Dremora]
of course, one needs to provide 3 different masters for 3 different media
18:10:20 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work normally puts mastering engineer ars on releases.
18:10:33 [Dremora]
it would be simpler with the old concept of mix-master-recording-track. oh wait, it would be much harder %)
18:10:47 [reosarevok]
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18:11:07 [Dremora]
but yeah, I like the idea of putting engineers on releases
18:11:31 [drsaunde]
engineers and mixers are different...those ARE track/recording based credits...specifically mastering is not
18:12:02 [adhawkins]
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18:13:33 [Dremora]
but sometimes it's even hard to tell whether release was just remastered or remixed as well (like with remasters of The Byrds early albums)
18:14:55 [ruaok]
hi all: we're still prepping for the release.
18:14:58 [reosarevok]
drsaunde: I've seen mastering credits for tracks relatively often
18:15:02 [ruaok]
bear with us please.
18:15:13 [reosarevok]
(less often that for releases, sure, but I've seen them)
18:16:10 [luks]
the only think missing are track ranges for release ars
18:16:10 [drsaunde]
reo: yes so have I, usually those will be on comps referring to original mastering on previous releases, or differend sides of a record/cassette, although i have seen a few that don't apply to those 2 situations and i'm not sure what to make of those
18:16:22 [luks]
that would be very useful for both mastering and dj-mixes
18:20:00 [drsaunde]
i agree with luks (i seem to say that a lot) - hi luks
18:23:27 [reosarevok]
Don't we all :p
18:25:20 [drsaunde]
i think he could build skynet if he wanted :D
18:29:06 [ruaok]
hmmm.
18:29:53 [ianweller]
lolwat.
18:30:53 [Dremora]
next-gen torrents: download releases by MBIDs
18:39:43 [ocharles]
what.cd has quite a lot of dislike towards us
18:39:57 [ocharles]
i never really got why
18:40:21 [ianmcorvidae]
dislike?
18:42:12 [kepstin-work]
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18:42:55 [ocharles]
search the forums
18:43:01 [ocharles]
it's not all roses :)
18:45:46 [ruaok]
ok, we're finally ready to go.
18:45:52 [ruaok]
FIVE MINUTE WARNING.
18:45:58 [ruaok]
finish your edits now.
18:46:08 [CatCat]
wait is that horrible mess in artist pages happening?!
18:46:35 [kepstin-work]
CatCat: yep
18:46:45 [CatCat]
>[
18:46:49 [CatCat]
do not want
18:46:49 [ianweller]
* ianweller starts an elaborate edit
18:46:59 [pankkake]
what mess?
18:47:00 [ocharles]
CatCat: nothing is forever
18:47:08 [CatCat]
why make a mess in the first palce
18:47:18 [CatCat]
seems nonsence and a lot of nagging at you for no use
18:47:18 [ocharles]
* ocharles doesn't go down this rabbit hole
18:47:19 [kepstin-work]
pankkake: http://test.musicbrainz.org/artist/0383dadf-2a4e-4d10-a46a-e9e041da8eb3?page=1
18:47:24 [CatCat]
i eman ,you're going to get yelled at
18:47:30 [ocharles]
accepted
18:47:58 [pankkake]
why not? except for the silly color :p
18:48:26 [ocharles]
no..?
18:48:30 [reosarevok]
CatCat: schema changes need to be released today
18:48:37 [CatCat]
then why not take the time to do it properly?
18:48:37 [pankkake]
the filter could use an enhancement though, you have to click to open, then click to filter…
18:48:41 [reosarevok]
So, it's either today, or in October
18:48:44 [ocharles]
because we've reached our deadline
18:48:44 [ocharles]
yep
18:48:45 [CatCat]
reosarevok: says who?
18:48:54 [CatCat]
bull, we make the deadlines
18:48:56 [reosarevok]
Ourselves, promised 6 months ago
18:48:59 [CatCat]
i understand
18:49:03 [reosarevok]
We have customers, remember?
18:49:15 [ocharles]
CatCat: I estimate in 2 weeks this problem will be resolved
18:49:17 [reosarevok]
Schema change dates are fixed
18:49:22 [kepstin-work]
but yeah; the remaining work is just UI, and won't require any more schema changes.
18:49:26 [CatCat]
it's to prevent like years of non releases
18:49:36 [ocharles]
kepstin-work has already given me mockups
18:49:40 [ocharles]
wait
18:49:41 [ocharles]
hawke_:
18:49:43 [ocharles]
one of them :P
18:49:46 [CatCat]
bbut it's better to break *a* deadline in order to do it *proeprly* thna to.. idk, do it half assed
18:49:50 [CatCat]
that's my oppinion :)
18:50:18 [reosarevok]
If it was an actual problem, yes
18:50:27 [reosarevok]
If it is one release-cycle of not-ideal display, no
18:50:28 [CatCat]
* CatCat shrugs I don't know anything abotu schema
18:50:53 [ianmcorvidae]
if we delayed releases for problems like this, we would not *ever* release on time
18:50:54 [reosarevok]
(actual problem as in HALP STUFF IS BROKEN AND WON'T LET US USE IT)
18:50:55 [CatCat]
it's a mess for no apparent reason to to the end user (me) that's what I'm saying
18:50:58 [ianmcorvidae]
this is how software development works
18:51:00 [CatCat]
basically i only learned thistoday
18:51:20 [ruaok]
ok, we're going to start!
18:51:30 [reosarevok]
We've announced schema changes, dates etc on blog + twitter for weeks / months
18:51:36 [reosarevok]
That's all we can do, really
18:51:52 [CatCat]
reosarevok: HALP STUFF IS BROKEN AND I DON§T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT :) would be my responce if I saw the release page withouth knowign it was *suppose* t olook liek that :)
18:52:06 [reosarevok]
Obviously not everyone will find out / understand, but option b is spamming every single user account with it
18:52:14 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok suspects people wouldn't like us to send that million mails
18:52:17 [CatCat]
reosarevok: you ysay that liek you're part of the dev theam and not a guy in irc like me :(
18:52:35 [reosarevok]
Well, I announced the stuff on twitter :p
18:52:44 [CatCat]
* CatCat doesn't use twitter
18:52:45 [reosarevok]
So I have to use "we" there :)
18:53:25 [CatCat]
i wouldn't mind an email actually
18:53:55 [CatCat]
for "we have new stuff to triage on test release is in :DATE:"
18:53:57 [reosarevok]
I know. I suspect a big amount of old users would be like WTF is this MusicBrainz stuff I don't even care
18:54:04 [reosarevok]
(anymore)
18:54:08 [kepstin-work]
an opt-in email newsletter - say, weekly or whatever, announcing stuff would be decent.
18:54:13 [kepstin-work]
*opt-in*, though.
18:54:19 [CatCat]
and then "we are eleasing withing x(3) days last chance to argue abotu stupid shit" :P
18:54:31 [CatCat]
not weekly
18:54:32 [ianmcorvidae]
kepstin-work: how about we just send blog posts to it? :P
18:54:32 [reosarevok]
CatCat: there was basically no chance to argue
18:54:42 [reosarevok]
Changes were finished today
18:54:45 [kepstin-work]
ianmcorvidae: blog posts don't show up in my inbox.
18:54:47 [CatCat]
hmph
18:54:53 [ianmcorvidae]
yes, thus sending them to said mailing list
18:54:56 [reosarevok]
So even if there were (and there are) things that can and will be made better
18:55:05 [CatCat]
hmph!
18:55:06 [CatCat]
anyway
18:55:07 [reosarevok]
They would have to be done after today anyway
18:55:14 [CatCat]
Lager baluba til: Junichi Masuda, Go Ichinose ~ Welcome to the World of Pokémon (1:11) (fra Pokémon Gold & Silver) (2000)
18:55:26 [kepstin-work]
(technically, a newsletter wouldn't show up in my inbox, anyways - gmail would filter it into 'bulk' or something)
18:55:56 [reosarevok]
kepstin-work: http://www.feedmyinbox.com/ ?
18:56:18 [CatCat]
hey we have a new server maintenance page
18:56:26 [CatCat]
heh, the logo with z's is a nice touch
18:56:28 [kepstin-work]
actually, I really should just make sure the musicbrainz blog is in my google reader :)
18:56:35 [kepstin-work]
CatCat: we've had that for a while :)
18:56:36 [warp]
CatCat: we continuously update test.musicbrainz.org and beta.musicbrainz.org. you want an e-mail every time the code changes on one of those?
18:57:13 [kepstin-work]
warp: the appropriate thing for someone who wants that would be a commit log mailing list.
18:57:14 [nikki]
warp: heh, that would be like subscribing to mb-commits
18:57:17 [CatCat]
warp: nope, I want an email whenver I'm asupposed ot go to test or beta to *test* something and i want emails telling me several weeks in advance when the server release date is
18:57:37 [reosarevok]
CatCat: http://www.feedmyinbox.com/ - MB blog
18:57:50 [CatCat]
does the mb blog have rss?
18:57:54 [reosarevok]
The MB blog mentions schema changes several weeks in advance
18:58:07 [reosarevok]
http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?feed=rss2
18:58:13 [warp]
CatCat: I don't understand. the server release date is more or less every two weeks. test and beta always have stuff which needs testing.
18:59:00 [hawke_]
This one was a little different, being a schema change…
18:59:01 [MBChatLogger]
http://test.musicbrainz.org
18:59:01 [CatCat]
warp: i am stuck i nthe past where it was a big thing that there was code pushed to test.mb.org and you where supposed ot g other eand "test shit and make sure it acually works
18:59:08 [CatCat]
yea
18:59:15 [hawke_]
since that means beta never sees it
18:59:27 [CatCat]
oh does it?
18:59:39 [CatCat]
I was wondering why the stuff on test never showed up on beta
18:59:43 [reosarevok]
Yeah
18:59:51 [reosarevok]
Beta runs the same schema as normal MB
19:00:06 [warp]
CatCat: the beta release process should make things clearer
19:00:08 [reosarevok]
So schema changes can't be added there without adding them to all MB
19:00:13 [warp]
in the future.
19:00:24 [warp]
reosarevok: what is the status on that?
19:00:32 [reosarevok]
nikki: what is the status on that?
19:00:40 [nikki]
not done
19:00:55 [warp]
thanks for the update :)
19:00:56 [CatCat]
lol
19:01:05 [nikki]
I hate fixing user scripts to work with reosarevok's stupid chrome
19:01:19 [nikki]
it seems so simple but nooooo
19:01:20 [reosarevok]
nikki: It'd be nice if you could put the text somewhere before you go so these people can look at it while you holiday (if you have time)
19:01:37 [CatCat]
nikki is going holiday on the 17th?!
19:01:39 [CatCat]
nei
19:01:56 [nikki]
tomorrow
19:01:57 [warp]
tomorrow iirc
19:02:04 [nikki]
reosarevok: I have nothing other than the image :P
19:02:25 [reosarevok]
Well, then I guess just writing that down as sentences works? dunno
19:02:27 [CatCat]
it's funny how it coincides with the 17th of may
19:02:46 [nikki]
tomorrow is the 16th...
19:03:11 [reosarevok]
What happens on the 17th anyway?
19:03:16 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is not aware of its significance
19:03:20 [nikki]
* nikki neither
19:03:37 [CatCat]
>-(
19:04:04 [reosarevok]
"1814 – The Constitution of Norway is signed and the Danish Crown Prince Christian Frederik is elected King of Norway by the Norwegian Constituent Assembly"
19:04:06 [reosarevok]
Related?
19:04:23 [warp]
reosarevok: I'm not opposed to an image in itself. but it should be something which can easily be tedited to suggest improvements, etc..
19:04:34 [warp]
s/ted/edt/
19:04:37 [warp]
argh
19:04:40 [reosarevok]
:)
19:04:51 [reosarevok]
warp: well, I guess you could just suggest them *under* the image
19:04:54 [reosarevok]
But I see your point, yes
19:06:21 [adhawkins]
Is this failing because of the upgrade?
19:06:22 [adhawkins]
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/libmusicbrainz
19:06:56 [hawke_]
yes
19:07:06 [hawke_]
(I think so)
19:07:25 [adhawkins]
Ok, I'll sit tight then
19:07:52 [Dremora]
Dremora has joined #musicbrainz
19:07:55 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work is surprised that's giving a 502 rather than a 503 tho.
19:08:10 [ianmcorvidae]
/doc/ always goes to astro
19:08:17 [ianmcorvidae]
so it may be that somewhere
19:08:47 [adhawkins]
Coming back now.
19:09:01 [ianmcorvidae]
I think it's just astro happening to be up
19:09:01 [ianmcorvidae]
heh
19:09:17 [ianmcorvidae]
the CSS doesn't work, for example :P
19:09:36 [hawke_]
yep
19:11:01 [bitmap]
bitmap has joined #musicbrainz
19:17:27 [ocharles]
you guys can get to astro?
19:17:32 [ianmcorvidae]
only via /doc
19:17:37 [ianmcorvidae]
but yes
19:17:44 [ocharles]
tuts
19:17:48 [ocharles]
luckily we mostly got it right
19:18:06 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah -- can't do anything destructive from /doc/ anyway :P
19:18:19 [ruaok]
Ah.
19:18:34 [ruaok]
I think we found a bug in the take MB site off line switch.
19:18:54 [ianmcorvidae]
want me to file an MBH bug for it?
19:19:04 [ianmcorvidae]
(while you work on release)
19:19:38 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work picked a bad time to take a break and retag a couple things in picard.
19:19:45 [noobie]
:d
19:22:17 [ruaok]
we're back!
19:22:54 [hawke_]
Shiny.
19:23:04 [kepstin-work]
yey, it works!
19:23:24 [nikki]
...
19:23:27 [nikki]
internal server error
19:23:38 [ianmcorvidae]
heh, nikki's magic touch :P
19:23:47 [nikki]
I wanted to set some vinyl track numbers :(
19:24:01 [ocharles]
ok, i see that one
19:24:02 [ocharles]
hold up
19:25:57 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae adds languages to my profile :D
19:26:28 [ocharles]
i beat you ;)
19:26:32 [ianmcorvidae]
not that I know how to classify my eo/de knowledge, I guess "Intermediate" will do though :P
19:26:48 [nikki]
* nikki doesn't know either
19:27:01 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work remembers hearing something about gravatars?
19:27:02 [ocharles]
all add relationship edit types are broken
19:27:06 [ocharles]
(old ones)
19:27:11 [ianmcorvidae]
kepstin-work: yeah, go to preferences
19:27:16 [nikki]
ianmcorvidae: it's funny that we classified our german knowledge at the same level :P
19:27:23 [ianmcorvidae]
haha
19:27:39 [kepstin-work]
yey, I have an avatar now.
19:27:41 [ianmcorvidae]
I *understand* german pretty well, but communicating with it... heh
19:27:47 [kepstin-work]
are they actually used anywhere? (e.g. edits?)
19:27:56 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, go look at the vote on edits page
19:28:06 [ianmcorvidae]
or say http://musicbrainz.org/user/ianmcorvidae/edits
19:28:33 [hawke_]
I still don’t have an avatar. :-(
19:28:39 [ocharles]
i dooo
19:28:45 [hawke_]
Oh, now I do
19:28:51 [hawke_]
hmm
19:28:58 [kepstin-work]
hmm, my avatar looks pretty nasty at 12px.
19:29:03 [hawke_]
Avatar doesn’t show on my main page…
19:29:04 [hawke_]
http://musicbrainz.org/user/Hawke
19:29:05 [ianweller]
i would bet most do.
19:29:21 [hawke_]
But does on the other tabs of my profile
19:29:42 [hawke_]
or not
19:29:43 [hawke_]
WTF
19:29:52 [ianweller]
huh, my gravatar isn't showing either
19:29:52 [kepstin-work]
hawke_: did you enable it in the preferences?
19:30:12 [hawke_]
kepstin-work: I didn’t.
19:30:17 [ianweller]
it's in preferences? instead of edit profile?
19:30:18 [ianweller]
odd
19:30:18 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, you have to turn it on
19:30:19 [hawke_]
It shows on my "donation check" tab though
19:30:23 [ocharles]
hawke_: it sounds like your preference isn't enabled, and those other pages aren't loading your preferences correctly
19:30:33 [ocharles]
(the default is to have it enabled)
19:30:38 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work really expected it to be under edit profile
19:30:42 [ianmcorvidae]
the default is disabled
19:30:43 [kepstin-work]
it was off by default for me...
19:30:46 [ianmcorvidae]
or it certainly should be
19:30:50 [ianmcorvidae]
since it's a privacy issue
19:30:58 [ianmcorvidae]
the ticket said it would be disabled
19:31:00 [hawke_]
It was off for me, too.
19:31:01 [kepstin-work]
yeah, exposes your email address.
19:31:06 [ianmcorvidae]
well, it seems like that's what's happening, anyway
19:31:20 [ianmcorvidae]
well, no, it exposes that you have the same email between two different sites
19:31:22 [kepstin-work]
well, doesn't *directly* expose your email address, but still.
19:31:25 [ianmcorvidae]
it doesn't actually expose the email itself
19:31:25 [ocharles]
it's on for new editors
19:31:25 [hawke_]
Anyway, even when it's off it still shows the avatar on the donation check tab
19:31:26 [kepstin-work]
yeah
19:31:40 [ocharles]
it exposes a direct md5 of your email address
19:31:45 [ianweller]
hawke_: interestingly that's not the case for me
19:31:55 [ianweller]
it just doesn't display for me anywhere
19:32:08 [ianweller]
oh now it does
19:32:19 [ianweller]
either i missed the save button the first time or i just had to check the box and hit save twice
19:32:23 [hawke_]
and now it doesn’t for me, lol
19:33:24 [ianmcorvidae]
heh, I should set [Multiple Languages] on my profile
19:33:27 [ianmcorvidae]
evidently you can :P
19:33:36 [kepstin-work]
lol
19:34:01 [kepstin-work]
I guess you could make yourself a native [Multiple Languages] speaker ;)
19:34:10 [ianmcorvidae]
well, that would just be inaccurate
19:34:14 [ianmcorvidae]
I only speak English natively :P
19:34:26 [kepstin-work]
heh
19:34:43 [ianmcorvidae]
I put basic [Multiple languages] proficiency, that seems the most accurate :P
19:35:43 [ocharles]
haha
19:35:46 [ianweller]
* ianweller sets himself as native in "No linguistic content"
19:35:47 [hawke_]
Is the language preference used for anything yet?
19:35:59 [ocharles]
hawke_: not yet, other than on profiles
19:36:31 [reosarevok]
And maybe helping us find speakers of stuff we want translated 8)
19:37:21 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Right, that’s what I mean
19:37:44 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Is there a way to search for native speakers of a given language or something
19:37:51 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work would have expected this to use locales, not languages.
19:37:53 [nikki]
I imagine it'll get added to the editor search
19:37:53 [hawke_]
or do you just have to hit random profiles until you find one?
19:38:05 [kepstin-work]
I can't pick 'Canadian English' like this ;)
19:38:16 [reosarevok]
Of course, for that specific case, we can probably just look in the database :p
19:38:59 [hawke_]
kepstin-work: I can’t pick “Milwaukee native, living in central Wisconsin, heavily influenced by british english” ;-)
19:39:26 [ianweller]
hawke_: i'd set that as [Multiple languages]
19:39:39 [SultS]
hmm… if vinyl has only one track on one side, and the cover art only has B for the #, is that consider a correct number, or should I use B1 instead?
19:39:54 [nikki]
reosarevok: tell whoever wanted võro that we have võro now :P
19:40:03 [reosarevok]
v6lur ^
19:40:07 [reosarevok]
nikki: I was doing that :p
19:40:10 [reosarevok]
(writing it)
19:42:13 [drsaunde]
so what do we set compliations to now? other?
19:42:46 [reosarevok]
They're usually compilation albums
19:42:53 [reosarevok]
(which is actually their full name)
19:43:18 [drsaunde]
fft.. not in my reasoning, i would still probably make them other, they are not albums
19:43:38 [reosarevok]
They will be easier to filter out from the rest of the albums in the next release, admittedly they look a bit messy now
19:43:43 [reosarevok]
But they are
19:43:59 [reosarevok]
Same way as soundtrack albums are albums :)
19:44:04 [kepstin-work]
huh, weird. some of my files seem to have been tagged by a buggy version of picard that saved the release mbid twice, like "MBID;MBID"
19:44:24 [kepstin-work]
current version gets it right, but fails to do lookups on the files with the broken tags.
19:44:32 [kepstin-work]
so I have to rescan them :/
19:44:35 [drsaunde]
sad the choice of definition is that anything that isn't a single or ep is automatically an album
19:44:51 [kepstin-work]
I guess that's the joys of running picard from weekly git
19:44:53 [drsaunde]
goes against every other discography type website/book etc..
19:45:30 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/user/reosarevok looking sweet :D
19:45:58 [ianweller]
apparently this is supposed to be an autoedit? http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17637027
19:46:14 [reosarevok]
Huh
19:46:18 [reosarevok]
I wasn't expecting it to be
19:47:11 [hawke_]
drsaunde: What else would it be?
19:48:02 [v6lur]
nikki, reosarevok: woohoo!
19:48:10 [nikki]
livonian is there too
19:48:16 [v6lur]
yay :D
19:48:28 [v6lur]
this is like a birthday :P
19:48:39 [nikki]
hehe
19:48:45 [dubwai]
dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
19:50:16 [SultS]
is that Liv?
19:50:30 [drsaunde]
hawke: If everything is "album" why even have it, just have categories for single and EP and do away with album if its everything else. Kind of like the silliness of calling all non-classical works "Song" even instrumentals
19:50:46 [SultS]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/cdffa925-9a2a-461b-b708-9ef452371dcc needs an update then :)
19:51:26 [drsaunde]
- /end rant - this is my 2nd of the day at least, i should be nicer :)
19:53:53 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work fixes track numbers on http://musicbrainz.org/release/36334ebc-20b4-469b-9b98-29eba8764688
19:53:59 [luks]
hm, I see that the DJ-mix type passed mb-style
19:54:07 [luks]
is there a reason why it wasn't added?
19:54:36 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok doesn't know, and was looking for it too
19:54:38 [reosarevok]
ocharles?
19:54:49 [hawke_]
Anyone have any opinions yet on how vinyl track numbers should be used?
19:54:51 [reosarevok]
multiple iswc / multiple iswcs / multiple-iswc
19:54:58 [hawke_]
Always A/B?
19:54:59 [noobie]
good question,what exactly would you flag as dj.mix?
19:55:01 [reosarevok]
Yay me and my consistant tags
19:55:07 [hawke_]
Multiple 1/2/3/4 per side if the release does that?
19:55:19 [hawke_]
A/B/C/D for additional discs?
19:55:20 [reosarevok]
If it's not too crazy, I'd do per-release
19:55:36 [noobie]
Internal Server Error
19:55:36 [noobie]
Oops, something went wrong!
19:55:36 [noobie]
Error:
19:55:36 [noobie]
Caught exception in MusicBrainz::Server::Controller::ReleaseEditor::Add->add "Could not create MusicBrainz::Server::Edit::Artist::Create edit
19:55:52 [noobie]
You must specify ipi_codes at lib/MusicBrainz/Server/Edit/Artist/Create.pm line 43.
19:55:53 [noobie]
at lib/MusicBrainz/Server/Data/Edit.pm line 333"
19:56:00 [noobie]
mhm
19:56:02 [reosarevok]
huh?
19:56:03 [reosarevok]
must?
19:56:07 [reosarevok]
That sounds wrong
19:56:07 [noobie]
weird
19:56:14 [reosarevok]
ocharles again? :)
19:57:11 [noobie]
full log
19:57:12 [noobie]
http://nopaste.info/ab3f645e7e.html
19:57:30 [ianweller]
hmm, with the new track numbers, can we... not have track numbers?
19:57:34 [ianweller]
for a given medium
19:57:39 [warp]
when creating such an edit the ipi_codes argument is mandatory, it seems not all code paths creating artists/labels se tit.
19:58:16 [noobie]
how would that work warp?
19:58:22 [warp]
ocharles, ruaok: looks like the release editor cannot create artists or labels.
19:58:23 [reosarevok]
nikki: is quenya in the iso3 list?
19:58:27 [Dremora_]
Dremora_ has joined #musicbrainz
19:58:32 [hawke_]
ooh, adding vinyl track numbering is an autoedit?
19:58:36 [reosarevok]
(if so, can I get it activated?)
19:58:38 [ianweller]
hawke_: apparently
19:58:40 [reosarevok]
hawke_: apparently
19:58:43 [hawke_]
yay!
19:58:45 [warp]
noobie: it just means I messed up in the server code.
19:58:52 [reosarevok]
Not sure if that's intentional
19:58:54 [noobie]
k ^^
19:59:31 [ianweller]
apparently removing track numbers is also an auto-edit
19:59:39 [ianweller]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17637151
19:59:56 [hawke_]
Good. We need more auto-edits.
19:59:59 [hawke_]
Or something.
20:00:19 [hawke_]
Hmm, adding medium titles is also now an auto-edit
20:00:27 [reosarevok]
:/
20:00:32 [noobie]
:d
20:00:34 [ruaok]
warp: got a fix yet?
20:00:38 [reosarevok]
That sounds like a bad idea and asking for people to add CD2 everywhere
20:00:50 [reosarevok]
(yay dead people!)
20:00:53 [reosarevok]
(that sounded bad)
20:00:58 [Tykling]
Tykling has joined #musicbrainz
20:01:28 [warp]
ruaok: I think so. going to do a quick local test before commit.
20:01:33 [ruaok]
k
20:01:42 [kepstin-work]
ooh, support for unnumbered tracks?
20:01:45 [kepstin-work]
fancy
20:01:57 [SultS]
v6lur, is that yours: http://musicbrainz.org/tag/missing%20language%20code-liv ? Seems like safe to remove now :)
20:02:09 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work notes that his filename pattern already supports that, because of non-album tracks.
20:02:52 [v6lur]
SultS: nope
20:03:29 [noobie]
another one bites the dust
20:03:30 [noobie]
http://nopaste.info/297bb9040e.html
20:03:42 [noobie]
Internal Server Error
20:03:42 [noobie]
Oops, something went wrong!
20:03:42 [noobie]
Error:
20:03:42 [noobie]
Caught exception in MusicBrainz::Server::Controller::ReleaseEditor::Add->add "Could not create MusicBrainz::Server::Edit::ReleaseGroup::Create edit
20:03:55 [ruaok]
file a bug please
20:04:54 [hawke_]
Oof, need arrow navigation on track numbers
20:05:08 [warp]
ruaok: yes, got a fix. should I commit straight to master?
20:05:10 [hawke_]
hitting tab 8 times to get to the next track number gets painful, as does clicking
20:05:25 [ruaok]
sure
20:05:59 [reosarevok]
hawke_: what we need is an userscript for that
20:06:06 [reosarevok]
(to tell it "side B starts here")
20:06:20 [reosarevok]
nikki was working on one, but no Chrome support yet :(
20:06:20 [hawke_]
reosarevok: ?
20:06:25 [warp]
ruaok: comitted to master and pushed. what now?
20:06:43 [hawke_]
reosarevok: I’d be happy being able to hit down arrow to go from one line to the next
20:06:53 [reosarevok]
hawke_: well, if you can tell it "From track 1: A1-An", "From track 7: B1-Bn"
20:06:57 [reosarevok]
You don't need that
20:06:57 [reosarevok]
:)
20:07:05 [hawke_]
reosarevok: In this case I want to delete all the track numbers
20:07:05 [ruaok]
lets wait for ocharles to do a sanity check and then we'll do a hot fix
20:07:09 [reosarevok]
(but yeah. that wouldn't be abad thing either)
20:07:12 [warp]
ruaok: ok
20:07:15 [reosarevok]
Delete? WIKIPEDIAN! :p
20:07:35 [ianweller]
* ianweller stares at reosarevok
20:07:40 [reosarevok]
:)
20:07:53 [noobie]
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4716 done
20:08:29 [hawke_]
reosarevok: :-p
20:09:42 [hawke_]
I shall send Musicbrainz the bill for the extra wear of 1000 keystrokes on my keyboard. :-)
20:09:59 [hawke_]
wait, 854…I forgot that I’d have to hit the down arrow anyway
20:10:20 [Dremora_]
what logic is used to generate the old <release-group type> attribute in ws?
20:10:52 [hawke_]
Dremora_: Logic? in MB? hahahahaha!
20:11:11 [reosarevok]
:p
20:11:14 [warp]
ruaok: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4716 should probably be hotfixed as well, this is related to one of ocharles' branches.
20:11:18 [Dremora_]
.
20:11:26 [reosarevok]
Dremora_: there is a wiki page with it
20:11:32 [reosarevok]
But I can't remember the URL
20:11:35 [Dremora_]
all right, thanks
20:11:38 [reosarevok]
Give me a couple minutes
20:11:39 [ruaok]
warp: thats why I want to hold off on more hot fixes.
20:11:53 [ruaok]
warp: I thought beta.mb whats going to stop all hot fixes?
20:12:04 [reosarevok]
ruaok: not funny :p
20:12:18 [nikki]
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Wizzcat/Type_Migration
20:12:21 [kepstin-work]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Wikipedians_Who_Dislike_Making_Broad_Judgements_About_the_Worthiness_of_a_General_Category_of_Article,_and_Who_Are_In_Favor_of_the_Deletion_of_Some_Particularly_Bad_Articles,_but_That_Doesn%27t_Mean_They_are_Deletionist ...
20:12:28 [reosarevok]
ruaok: Use that when we have to hotfix stuff that can go through beta
20:12:35 [reosarevok]
(it will happen at some point :p)
20:12:37 [Dremora]
nice, thanks nikki
20:12:39 [reosarevok]
But not now
20:12:49 [ruaok]
it was a BS statement. I just wanted point that out.
20:12:52 [reosarevok]
huh
20:12:58 [ruaok]
when I called BS on that, I was rejected soundly.
20:12:58 [reosarevok]
Weren't medium removals autoedits before?
20:13:01 [reosarevok]
(for autoeditors)
20:13:02 [ruaok]
just saying.
20:13:33 [reosarevok]
At least you weren't rejected silently. That's worse 8)
20:14:45 [reosarevok]
nikki: Weren't medium removals autoedits before?
20:14:51 [reosarevok]
Can't remember for sure but I think so
20:14:51 [nikki]
dunno
20:14:57 [reosarevok]
Can anyone else confirm? :/
20:15:07 [demosdemon]
* demosdemon grumbles something about artist overview
20:15:49 [warp]
ruaok: sure, once we get that beta process in place.
20:15:50 [reosarevok]
"We know the Overview for artists is a bit messy right now, and we'll be working on that - reo"
20:15:54 [reosarevok]
:p
20:16:05 [demosdemon]
a bit
20:16:12 [warp]
ruaok: except for schema releases, because schema releases cannot use beta.
20:16:17 [reosarevok]
Well, it's just a bit messy for most artists
20:16:28 [reosarevok]
I assume it's very messy for the few who have loads of bootlegs and/or comps
20:16:39 [demosdemon]
heh, I don't like it
20:16:50 [demosdemon]
especially the blue things
20:17:26 [hawke_]
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4717
20:17:54 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok votes and watches
20:18:04 [hawke_]
demosdemon: you might want to look at that ticket as well
20:18:13 [hawke_]
and see what you think of the mockup linked in it
20:18:19 [demosdemon]
I saw your mockup yesterday
20:18:26 [demosdemon]
or this morning
20:18:29 [hawke_]
oh, OK
20:18:30 [demosdemon]
sometime lol
20:18:33 [hawke_]
:-)
20:18:51 [noobie]
* noobie is listening to Attoya - Above Natural Sleep from Based on True Events
20:19:03 [hawke_]
I wonder if making the boxes MB-purple instead of light blue would be good. I suspect so.
20:19:28 [reosarevok]
Can we get a multiple-ipi report?
20:19:29 [demosdemon]
It is cleaner, but what happens when you're done with album and it moves to Single?
20:19:37 [reosarevok]
(IPIs on multiple artists)
20:19:49 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is sure there will be some, since PROs suck
20:20:35 [hawke_]
Anyone know offhand what color MB-purple is?
20:20:54 [hawke_]
demosdemon: What do you mean?
20:20:59 [demosdemon]
#736DAB
20:21:01 [Dremora]
hawke_: what about assigning different colors to different types?
20:21:27 [reosarevok]
Dremora: that was considered. It doesn't help too much though in the way that it makes it all look even more like a fruit salad
20:21:36 [reosarevok]
(so just-albums are harder to see)
20:21:52 [hawke_]
I updated the mockup to use purple instead
20:21:55 [hawke_]
It is better, I think
20:22:06 [demosdemon]
mmm yes
20:22:10 [Dremora]
and make these colors less bright, this way they won't distract
20:23:30 [demosdemon]
hawke_: when hiding comps and bootlegs, will single's and the rest of the top level release be visible on the front page?
20:23:30 [hawke_]
Dremora: I agree with reo, different colors per type would get ugly without giving any helpful info
20:23:59 [hawke_]
demosdemon: Yes, it should follow the same method: Hide compilations and RGs which have no official release.
20:24:10 [demosdemon]
mmm good
20:24:14 [demosdemon]
* demosdemon votes
20:24:17 [hawke_]
I dunno if there are any compilation singles, but…
20:24:47 [hawke_]
I hope no one tries to mark compilations *of* singles as “single, compilation”
20:24:52 [reosarevok]
There definitely are compilation EPs
20:25:04 [reosarevok]
Singles, probably not
20:25:19 [demosdemon]
I haven't seen any singles with sub types
20:25:41 [hawke_]
The system wouldn't have any, there weren't any migrated like that AFAIK
20:25:54 [hawke_]
I have at least one soundtrack single though
20:26:07 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/e60c6e16-1cc6-41b4-a993-bc7bdf15ef80 :)
20:26:25 [demosdemon]
ahhh, those
20:26:35 [demosdemon]
remixes
20:27:13 [reosarevok]
Remixes will be the most obvious case
20:27:18 [reosarevok]
Soundtrack and live too though
20:28:39 [hawke_]
reosarevok: that's a remix single?
20:28:56 [reosarevok]
Sure? It's 10 remixes of one song, after all
20:29:02 [reosarevok]
It's a very long single, but...
20:29:09 [hawke_]
I dunno, just seems weird to have a 50-minute single
20:29:24 [hawke_]
or 40 min
20:29:26 [hawke_]
or whatever it is
20:29:28 [drsaunde]
there are actually many "compilation" singles
20:29:43 [hawke_]
drsaunde: ?
20:29:45 [drsaunde]
all those jukebox 45s that take A-sides from other places on each side
20:30:52 [hawke_]
feels like a very grey area
20:31:11 [hawke_]
given that most of those 45s are released around the same time as the album
20:31:25 [hawke_]
And then later ones are just reissues of those.
20:32:12 [hawke_]
but good point nonetheless
20:32:14 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok hasn't even seen a jukebox, much less knows how the "market" works, so he has no opinion
20:33:34 [reosarevok]
nikki: how do I search for empty end dates for artists? :)
20:33:35 [hawke_]
I have a jukebox. Way way too many of the 45s out there are reissues with the same cat no.
20:33:44 [reosarevok]
(well, or anyone else who knows)
20:34:05 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok wants to look for stuff like people older than 150 years with no end date
20:34:16 [reosarevok]
(can go century by century though :) )
20:34:22 [jesus2099]
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20:34:30 [jesus2099]
wtf having some ost!? in albums (nothing to do here) and not minialbum ??
20:34:39 [jesus2099]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/88d8f38f-adb4-48a0-8c1f-ec34f2a675ff
20:34:55 [reosarevok]
Soundtracks are albums
20:34:57 [kepstin-work]
we've been doing minialbum = ep tho.
20:34:59 [reosarevok]
So that's normal
20:35:04 [kepstin-work]
which isn't an album :/
20:35:17 [reosarevok]
And yeah, most people has done mini-album EP, no idea if that should be changed and "minialbum" added as type
20:35:27 [reosarevok]
(and I guess "maxi" should be added for singles)
20:35:55 [kepstin-work]
maxi single just means single on a bigger medium size tho
20:36:19 [kepstin-work]
(e.g. on 12" vinyl instead, or 12cm cd)
20:36:30 [SultS]
heh, right now it’s possible to select audiobook + audiobook as options…
20:36:34 [kepstin-work]
lol
20:36:41 [kepstin-work]
audiobook²
20:37:00 [hawke_]
SultS: That just means it’s REALLY an audiobook
20:37:07 [hawke_]
we weren’t kidding around. :-)
20:37:12 [SultS]
:)
20:37:24 [reosarevok]
kepstin-work: maybe, yeah
20:37:48 [Dremora]
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20:37:55 [jesus2099]
a mini album is a mini album = an album ... EP is all what we got to say mini album
20:38:10 [jmv_]
jmv_ has joined #musicbrainz
20:38:17 [Dremora]
how to change avatar?
20:38:28 [jesus2099]
settings
20:38:31 [Shepard]
Shepard has joined #musicbrainz
20:38:33 [kepstin-work]
Dremora: go to musicbrainz preferences, enable gravatar
20:38:38 [jesus2099]
dremora gravatar.com
20:38:43 [Dremora]
thanks
20:38:57 [Dremora]
I was looking for this option, but couldn't find it
20:39:10 [Dremora]
ah, right, it's in preferences, not edit profile
20:39:14 [jesus2099]
where is the RFV for this dscography mess (or revolution) ?
20:39:34 [jesus2099]
i did not see this coming ... and mini album are left by the side
20:39:59 [demosdemon]
since when was there time zone preferences?
20:40:03 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: there was an rfc a while back that was abandoned which they used as a base.
20:40:07 [demosdemon]
how have I never, in 7 years, noticed that
20:40:15 [reosarevok]
demosdemon: a long time
20:40:18 [reosarevok]
(no idea how long)
20:40:18 [kepstin-work]
but yeah - this really didn't go through style.
20:40:37 [demosdemon]
I just got really good at translating UTC to my local time
20:41:21 [reosarevok]
heh
20:41:27 [reosarevok]
That's an useful skill I'd say
20:41:39 [drsaunde]
hmm.. works aliases should even have a sort name, let alone require one
20:41:52 [hawke_]
should, or shouldn’t?
20:42:02 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work has a server that he keeps on UTC, but it's easy enough to see local time on that by setting TZ=whatever.
20:42:18 [reosarevok]
Why not? It does make sense to sort work names with "The" and the like at the end I'd say
20:42:25 [jesus2099]
kepstin-laptop: errrors are being unable to remove through RFV but such drastic changes can go on without discussion ?
20:42:52 [jesus2099]
i am not against but it is not complete as mini albums are forgotten
20:42:57 [jesus2099]
at least missing this
20:43:07 [reosarevok]
jesus2099: no new types were added yet
20:43:12 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: well, we can add additional types through rfc now.
20:43:19 [kepstin-work]
the migration only kept existing types
20:43:20 [reosarevok]
DJ-Mix will be added soon I guess since that passed RFC/V
20:43:22 [nikki]
drsaunde: it would make sense to have the sortname default to the alias name, but there are places where it's definitely useful
20:43:29 [jesus2099]
reosarevok: kepstin-laptop but EP is minialbum
20:43:33 [jesus2099]
not singsl
20:43:44 [reosarevok]
huh? EP is still EP
20:43:54 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: I don't tknow what you mean, EP is a top-level type like single and album.
20:43:56 [reosarevok]
Those haven't moved
20:44:44 [jesus2099]
those discogs are f$^d up because some mini-albums are put in EP out of the timeline http://musicbrainz.org/artist/88d8f38f-adb4-48a0-8c1f-ec34f2a675ff http://musicbrainz.org/artist/fbd70431-2546-4045-abfb-26029c7ca76d http://musicbrainz.org/artist/679530cc-a02b-4e08-b0d5-68abdf258ffd
20:45:00 [jesus2099]
ok so i will set the type as album when it is mini album then
20:45:12 [jesus2099]
don't know what EP is besides the size of a record btw
20:45:18 [kepstin-work]
mini-albums aren't really albums tho
20:45:19 [reosarevok]
Size of a record? :/
20:45:33 [jesus2099]
extra play or something bigger than small records
20:45:37 [hawke_]
reosarevok: EPs are commonly 7" records run at 33⅓ RPM
20:45:48 [jesus2099]
ah
20:45:52 [reosarevok]
s/are/were at some forgotten point/
20:45:54 [reosarevok]
:)
20:45:58 [jesus2099]
anyway i'll change those to albums if it's like this
20:46:03 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Well, they didn’t cease to exist. :-)
20:46:06 [kepstin-work]
well, that's the original thing - nowadays they refer to pretty much any sort of extended single/small album.
20:46:27 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: I don't know what you mean - nothing's changed with how eps/mini-albums are handled
20:46:30 [hawke_]
kepstin-work: Yes, and the only way we typically know something is an EP is that it says so in the title
20:46:33 [reosarevok]
jesus2099, kepstin-work : I guess it would make sense to RFC for minialbum?
20:46:37 [kepstin-work]
they were always separated, and now they still are.
20:46:39 [reosarevok]
(any takers? :p)
20:46:48 [reosarevok]
hawke_: sure, but I've seen plenty of EPs on 12" at 45 ;)
20:47:01 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work notes that the /only/ country he's ever seen the term 'mini-album' used is in japan
20:47:14 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok doesn't think that's enough reason not to have it
20:47:15 [nikki]
discogs has mini-album, so it can't be that rare outside japan
20:47:50 [kepstin-work]
but the question is - is mini-album a new top level type, or should it be a subtype of album?
20:48:01 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok would say subtype of album
20:48:17 [nikki]
I would probably group album with mini album and single with ep
20:48:17 [reosarevok]
EP made sense before but now I'd use album: mini (or minialbum, or dunno)
20:48:23 [kepstin-work]
and if so, would it make sense to make 'ep' a subtype of album?
20:48:46 [jesus2099]
nikki: +1
20:49:00 [jesus2099]
oh no
20:49:02 [kepstin-work]
ep as a subtype of album would be funny in the user interface, though, you'd get "The Awesome EP [EP]"
20:49:16 [nikki]
so for me it'd still be a top-level one, we'd just group them together
20:49:25 [jesus2099]
Ep is smaller album like maxi single is bigger single
20:49:29 [hawke_]
when we say 'subtype' — are we talking about secondary types, or a tree view of primary types?
20:49:40 [jesus2099]
checkbox
20:49:46 [reosarevok]
minialbum sounds like a secondary type
20:49:48 [reosarevok]
(to me)
20:49:51 [kepstin-work]
hawke_: well, it's a secondary type, but it only applies to albums.
20:49:52 [jesus2099]
[_] mini album
20:50:04 [jesus2099]
album [_] mini / ep
20:50:10 [kepstin-work]
i.e. you wouldn't want people to make a "minialbum single"
20:50:12 [jesus2099]
single [_] maxi
20:50:13 [kepstin-work]
:)
20:50:24 [jesus2099]
single [x] maxi
20:50:26 [jesus2099]
album [x] mini / ep
20:50:43 [jesus2099]
forum [x] reboot
20:50:47 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok wouldn't include EP as album - they're a different thing, especially but not only in electronic music
20:51:05 [reosarevok]
(and I would only use "minialbum" when it is called "minialbum"
20:51:06 [reosarevok]
)
20:51:08 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work notes that ever since major manufacturers stopped producing 8cm CDs, every single single release in Japan is marked as a maxi-single.
20:51:30 [jesus2099]
reosarevok: not
20:51:31 [kepstin-work]
well, except for the places that don't bother any more, because all singles are maxi-singles :)
20:51:47 [jesus2099]
I have many recent singles (not maxi) although 12cm
20:52:06 [jesus2099]
have not many but know many
20:52:10 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: that's just cause the label doesn't bother marking them as maxi-singles.
20:52:33 [kepstin-work]
the 'maxi' just means "released on bigger medium size" - i.e. 12" vinyl instead of 7", or 12cm cd instead of 8cm.
20:52:34 [jesus2099]
no that is because there is only an A side and a B side and not many remixes etc.
20:52:40 [jesus2099]
kepstin-laptop: ^^
20:52:56 [jesus2099]
maxi single is when not just AA or AB but more
20:53:12 [jesus2099]
but less than mini album of course ! like many versions of same songs for instanace
20:53:15 [kepstin-work]
hmm, guess I'm wrong
20:53:23 [kepstin-work]
wikipedia disagrees with me :)
20:53:30 [jesus2099]
anyway they say when it's maxi or single so it's easy
20:53:51 [kepstin-work]
jesus2099: well, yeah, but it's pretty inconsistant nowadays
20:54:02 [kepstin-work]
I see a lot of 4-track singles that aren't marked as maxi.
20:54:04 [nikki]
what happens if they rerelease a single as a maxi-single?
20:54:10 [jesus2099]
kepstin-work: we just set what they say like for mini albums if we could
20:54:35 [kepstin-work]
hmm, yeah - maxi is really more of a release attribute than a release group attribute, eh?
20:54:40 [jesus2099]
if they want to call this or that a mini album or a maxi single, then ok with me it's their job
20:55:00 [jesus2099]
the artists and labels
20:55:58 [jesus2099]
btw I have to go . anyway atm imo it is better to reset minialbums to albums as maxi singles are set to singles
20:56:20 [jesus2099]
I have a handful of RG to edit tomorrox
20:56:21 [kepstin-work]
maxi doesn't really fit into our current release group types
20:56:30 [kepstin-work]
but I think mini-album could.
20:56:36 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok agrees
20:56:37 [kepstin-work]
just need to figure out which level it fits at :)
20:56:44 [jesus2099]
yes
20:56:48 [jesus2099]
bye :)
20:56:52 [jesus2099]
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20:56:57 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok would say type of album
20:57:04 [kepstin-work]
if a mini-album is not an album, and is not a single, then it should be toplevel.
20:57:07 [reosarevok]
not that it can't be moved to its own primary type later if wanted
20:57:12 [kepstin-work]
reosarevok: we don't have "types of"
20:57:16 [kepstin-work]
we have secondary types :)
20:57:21 [hawke_]
I don’t see the difference between a mini-album and an EP
20:57:21 [reosarevok]
What's the difference?
20:57:29 [jesus2099]
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20:57:40 [jesus2099]
i had to come back to say a mini album is a type of album
20:57:40 [kepstin-work]
hawke_: in one, the artist/label says "EP", in the other the artist/label says "mini-album"
20:57:50 [kepstin-work]
that's the difference ;)
20:57:55 [hawke_]
kepstin-work: That seems like an insignificant distinction
20:57:59 [jesus2099]
cf. the three discogs I gave earlier
20:58:12 [hawke_]
Just call the primary type "EP/mini-album" :-)
20:58:15 [reosarevok]
mini-albums go on album charts, dunno about EPs
20:58:34 [hawke_]
Since when does MB care about charts?
20:58:43 [nikki]
* nikki has seen eps on singles charts
20:58:51 [jesus2099]
they have one mini album it's in albums http://www.onmyo-za.net/discography/album.html
20:59:05 [reosarevok]
hawke_: it means the music people see them as different things
20:59:10 [jesus2099]
there http://www.onmyo-za.net/discography/album.html#04
20:59:11 [reosarevok]
(if they go on different charts)
20:59:20 [reosarevok]
Doesn't mean we have to do the same, sure, but it's useful to know
20:59:34 [hawke_]
reosarevok: The music people are uncomfortable with anything but single, and later anything but album
20:59:35 [jesus2099]
look : mini -> ALBUM <-
20:59:51 [jesus2099]
it's really clear
20:59:56 [nikki]
yeah and pineapples are apples :P
20:59:58 [jesus2099]
like maxi -> SINGLE <-
21:00:06 [jesus2099]
nikki: exaclty
21:00:09 [jesus2099]
jesus2099 has left #musicbrainz
21:00:16 [kepstin-work]
...
21:00:19 [hawke_]
lol
21:00:26 [kepstin-work]
but pineapples /aren't/ apples.
21:00:29 [warp]
haha
21:00:32 [kepstin-work]
that's kind of the point.
21:00:32 [hawke_]
I thought pineapples are pines?
21:00:34 [reosarevok]
nikki: they are!
21:00:35 [reosarevok]
: a fruit (as a star apple) or other vegetative growth (as an oak apple) suggestive of an apple
21:00:57 [reosarevok]
Webster says pineapples are apples :p
21:01:17 [reosarevok]
(inasmuch as they suggest someone of an apple, which I guess they do since they called them pineapples)
21:01:32 [hawke_]
reosarevok: It’s worse than that…
21:01:33 [kepstin-work]
but yeah - in artist discographies, mini-albums are usually grouped with other albums.
21:01:38 [hawke_]
reosarevok: They remind them of pine cones
21:01:51 [reosarevok]
That too!
21:01:53 [hawke_]
“The word "pineapple" in English was first recorded in 1398, when it was originally used to describe the reproductive organs of conifer trees (now termed pine cones).”
21:02:01 [reosarevok]
heh
21:02:15 [reosarevok]
So, pineapples are pineapple-like are apple-like?
21:02:19 [reosarevok]
Who knows
21:02:34 [reosarevok]
Anyway, mini albums are still albums to me
21:02:50 [reosarevok]
(since I usually see artists put them with albums)
21:02:52 [hawke_]
The apple is a fruit, therefore any fruit is an apple, therefore the fruit of a pinetree is a pineapple, and this fruit kinda looks like a pinetree fruit…
21:02:54 [reosarevok]
(as kepstin-work said)
21:03:14 [kepstin-work]
which is annoying, because if we make it a secondary type, then someone could make a mini-album single or mini-album EP :/
21:03:30 [hawke_]
kepstin-work: Please god no. :-)
21:03:38 [nikki]
which is why I'd rather have it as a primary type and alter the page display :P
21:03:42 [reosarevok]
kepstin-work: sure. And someone can make an audiobook single
21:03:45 [hawke_]
Having never seen a mini-album, I could not care less.
21:03:54 [kepstin-work]
reosarevok: well, yes, that's actually possible, presumably
21:03:54 [reosarevok]
That doesn't mean they should
21:04:01 [kepstin-work]
reosarevok: a short story, maybe?
21:04:02 [reosarevok]
Or set their birth date to 0001 :p
21:04:10 [warp]
I consider mini albums and EPs equivalent, and distinct from proper albums.
21:04:16 [reosarevok]
Or enter a demo as a pseudo-release
21:04:55 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work wishes copying files over usb to his ipod was faster...
21:05:03 [warp]
(so I'd be happy with a primary type for them)
21:05:17 [hawke_]
isn’t a mini album (and an EP) generally just “It’s not long enough to be an album, and there’s more than two different songs here”?
21:05:22 [kepstin-work]
I think primary type is the best fit right now, yeah.
21:05:23 [hawke_]
warp: +1
21:05:40 [warp]
hawke_: often, but not always. e.g. see recent autechre EPs.
21:06:12 [reosarevok]
Dunno, I would expect to see mini-albums listed with albums, and which I don't mind if it is done while keeping them as primary, it sounds confusing
21:06:16 [warp]
hawke_: where it is more accurately described as "It's not good enough for the allbum", but ppl buy this shit so we put it out anyway.
21:06:37 [reosarevok]
hawke_: I think I have 1-song EPs :p
21:07:16 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=type%3AEP+AND+tracks%3A1+AND+EP&type=release&limit=25&method=advanced shows a few - dunno if they're all correct...
21:07:20 [hawke_]
reosarevok: The solution is just to find the artist who made that, and kick them in the genitals.
21:07:34 [reosarevok]
hawke_: in my case, it's a 20 min drone track, so it makes sense
21:07:40 [reosarevok]
In some other cases, I'd agree
21:07:55 [warp]
hawke_: I like how we want to apply that solution to many edge cases :)
21:08:24 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work finds it amusing that if he searches for 'mini-album' on google, he gets a stub wikipedia page, and a bunch of pages about small photo albums and scrapbooking.
21:11:37 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Well, I can fix at least one of those
21:11:46 [hawke_]
(meanest man contest, we blame you EP)
21:11:59 [Dremora]
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21:12:57 [hawke_]
reosarevok: That one is because they apparently had sampler tracks or something and that was the only tracklisting when I added that release.
21:13:17 [hawke_]
Even though I love the music I want to kick them in the nuts for how they displayed their releases back then
21:17:44 [hawke_]
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/id286653624?ign-mpt=uo%3D6 — is “EP” part of the title or not?
21:18:03 [nikki]
no
21:18:15 [nikki]
they put " - single" or " - ep" on anything that's not an album it seems
21:18:29 [hawke_]
heh
21:18:30 [hawke_]
OK
21:18:38 [jesus2099]
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21:18:47 [jesus2099]
why compilations in albums ? no (few) new works in them they shouldn't be there imo
21:18:48 [hawke_]
I was leaning towards that because it didn’t have it on the cover either
21:19:08 [jesus2099]
many changes i see this tommorox with better eyes
21:19:10 [jesus2099]
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21:19:17 [Guest18625]
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21:19:32 [reosarevok]
SultS: English intermediate?
21:19:43 [reosarevok]
Yeah, and my Spanish is Beginner :p
21:20:01 [SultS]
reosarevok, yeah, I should probably lower it
21:20:10 [reosarevok]
(also, v6lur should clearly update his profile ;) )
21:20:38 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok suspects SultS has a weird idea of what language levels mean to people on the internet :p
21:21:01 [SultS]
I would’ve added german, but there wasn’t and option for “can maybe remember two words learned in school”
21:21:13 [reosarevok]
heh
21:21:25 [nikki]
my list would explode if I had an even more basic option
21:21:27 [reosarevok]
Yeah, or "can read it, kinda, on a good day"
21:21:40 [reosarevok]
(Catalan / Italian / Galician / Asturian / Portuguese)
21:21:53 [SultS]
oh, I remember, I also know some latin :)
21:21:54 [kepstin-work]
my french skills have atrophied to that point :/
21:22:02 [hawke_]
my opinion is “Basic: can comprehend what it means with the assistance of Google Translate” :-)
21:22:09 [reosarevok]
kepstin-work, go talk with French people!
21:22:13 [reosarevok]
You're in Canada :p
21:22:17 [kepstin-work]
mandatory french classes in canadian schools, but I never really caught on.
21:22:32 [kepstin-work]
despite that, I somehow passed high-school french
21:22:35 [reosarevok]
heh
21:22:45 [reosarevok]
Spanish people pass high-school English ;)
21:22:57 [kepstin-work]
... 60 minutes left syncing files to my ipod?
21:23:03 [kepstin-work]
I was going to go home now :/
21:23:08 [kepstin-work]
arg usb.
21:23:16 [reosarevok]
ipods are evil
21:23:26 [kepstin-work]
reosarevok: not when they're running rockbox
21:23:38 [SultS]
yay rockbox
21:23:39 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work should try using a different file copy tool.
21:23:58 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok would just set the laptop to do nothing when lid is closed, and use that
21:24:19 [reosarevok]
Beats waiting 1h for nothing
21:24:31 [reosarevok]
Or well, you can write us a script to batch-set lyrics language 8)
21:24:35 [kepstin-work]
... why is ctrl-c not working
21:24:42 [kepstin-work]
I can't stop the sync!
21:24:44 [hawke_]
killall -9!
21:25:08 [reosarevok]
nikki, don't abuse the age field!
21:25:08 [kepstin-work]
hmm. my laptop probably has enough battery to let this finish if I leave it.
21:25:12 [kepstin-work]
* kepstin-work goes.
21:25:28 [nikki]
reosarevok: :P
21:25:32 [kepstin-work]
...
21:25:53 [SultS]
http://yfrog.com/mgvklip at least d2 still works fine :)
21:26:09 [reosarevok]
lol
21:26:11 [reosarevok]
Yeah
21:26:17 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok is an airport diablo player
21:26:23 [reosarevok]
Guess what happens on airports?
21:26:28 [reosarevok]
Indeed, no free wifi
21:26:33 [reosarevok]
Guess who won't buy this?
21:26:44 [SultS]
long shot, but… you?
21:26:45 [nikki]
you're at the wrong airports then
21:26:47 [reosarevok]
Fuck Blizzard
21:26:57 [reosarevok]
nikki: sadly, yes
21:27:09 [nikki]
that's what happen when you're cheap! >:D
21:27:11 [reosarevok]
Tallinn does have wifi, but I don't usually need to wait there for 8+ hours :p
21:27:26 [reosarevok]
Untrue: expensive airports have expensive wifis
21:27:49 [reosarevok]
(although I want to think they don't "run out of codes" for the wifi, like Brussels-Charleroi...)
21:28:01 [nikki]
malta's airport had free wifi
21:28:02 [reosarevok]
(I can still barely believe that one)
21:28:09 [nikki]
but that wasn't exactly cheap or expensive, it was *the* airport
21:28:14 [reosarevok]
So does Tallinn, yeah
21:28:22 [reosarevok]
And Riga, kind of
21:28:32 [reosarevok]
But those are not really stop-over airports for me
21:28:47 [reosarevok]
And airports mid-way between ES and EE suck
21:29:15 [reosarevok]
Barcelona? Sucks. Last time I had to plug the laptop IN THE BATHROOM
21:29:17 [kepstin-work]
kepstin-work has left #musicbrainz
21:29:24 [reosarevok]
Stansted? At least they have plugs, but sucks
21:29:28 [reosarevok]
Charleroi? same
21:31:10 [hawke_]
Could someone approve http://musicbrainz.org/edit/17637681 so I can fix the artists?
21:37:17 [reosarevok]
You could, if you were an autoeditor 8)
21:37:26 [reosarevok]
Fine, fine
21:37:27 [reosarevok]
There
21:38:44 [SultS]
that edit *looks* wrong in a sense that it seems that before there weren’t any tracks on the tracklist and now there are only 4, starting with track 2
21:39:00 [reosarevok]
Yeah, our diffs suck
21:39:44 [hawke_]
Agreed.
21:40:30 [hawke_]
Anyone know what the point is of the "artist" checkbox in the release editor's tracklist tab?
21:41:40 [SultS]
lets you change credits?
21:42:00 [reosarevok]
No
21:42:09 [reosarevok]
(I mean, it does let you, no idea what the point is)
21:42:23 [reosarevok]
(and why it's not on by default
21:42:24 [reosarevok]
)
21:42:41 [SultS]
maybe a quick way to reset all credits to the same as on release
21:42:52 [SultS]
not sure where it would be really useful
21:43:05 [reosarevok]
But it just freezes them, right?
21:43:09 [reosarevok]
It doesn't actually reset them
21:43:17 [SultS]
…maybe?
21:43:26 [Mineo]
for sure
21:43:27 [reosarevok]
So yeah, no idea what the point is
21:43:28 [hawke_]
Is there any reason you wouldn’t want to be able to edit the artist?
21:43:31 [reosarevok]
Maybe warp can tell us
21:43:32 [reosarevok]
:)
21:43:45 [reosarevok]
It does save one or two tabs per line
21:43:48 [reosarevok]
But... yeah
21:44:14 [hawke_]
Hmm, good point there
21:45:14 [hawke_]
that might be the reason. :-)
21:45:29 [reosarevok]
It might, but it still feels strange
21:45:41 [reosarevok]
Especially with it being off by default IIRC
21:45:54 [reosarevok]
(copyable artist credits makes it on by default so I don't suffer it, but...)
21:46:29 [hawke_]
it … does? I have the copyable AC userscript but it defaults to off for me.
21:46:44 [reosarevok]
huh
21:46:55 [reosarevok]
It does default to on on editing...
21:47:01 [reosarevok]
Maybe that's other script?
21:49:07 [hawke_]
maybe.
21:49:15 [hawke_]
Or maybe I haven’t got a new enough version
21:49:28 [hawke_]
(wishlist for chrome: auto-update userscripts)
21:49:36 [reosarevok]
Oooh
21:49:44 [reosarevok]
My wage has gone up 3 euros in one day
21:49:48 [reosarevok]
Way to go, Greece
21:49:51 [reosarevok]
Keep that u
21:49:51 [reosarevok]
p
21:50:00 [bitmap]
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21:56:29 [v6lur]
reosarevok: hrm... language levels are complicated :S
21:56:35 [reosarevok]
That they are
21:56:42 [reosarevok]
But well, not too precise beats not there
21:57:09 [v6lur]
e.g. i'd feel weird setting my swedish/norwegian to advanced, although i can follow lectures at uni in those...
21:57:25 [reosarevok]
Then do like SultS's English and set it to Intermediate
21:57:27 [v6lur]
or is that an indication that i should?
21:57:30 [reosarevok]
Even if it's not :p
21:58:04 [reosarevok]
I would probably use advanced for that, but that depends on your views of it I assume
21:58:10 [reosarevok]
Obviously not everyone will agree
21:59:54 [SultS]
lets make setting languages non-autoedits and let others vote for them :)
22:00:03 [reosarevok]
hah
22:00:12 [reosarevok]
Including quizzes? :p
22:00:48 [SultS]
seems fair :)
22:00:54 [JoeLlama]
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22:01:05 [reosarevok]
hawke_, ¿cómo es su casa? :p
22:01:32 [reosarevok]
¿Cuántos años tiene?
22:01:37 [reosarevok]
:p
22:01:46 [reosarevok]
(what is the Artificial (Other)?)
22:02:10 [hawke_]
Tengo 31 años.
22:02:16 [hawke_]
Klingon. :-)
22:02:24 [nikki]
klingon is in the list
22:02:27 [hawke_]
is it?
22:02:29 [nikki]
yes
22:02:37 [hawke_]
Lojban?
22:02:51 [nikki]
should be
22:02:56 [hawke_]
It would be a stretch to claim even basic in that though
22:03:02 [warp]
I like how native implies more knowledge that advanced, which is definitely wrong in my case.
22:03:08 [warp]
s/that/than/
22:03:18 [reosarevok]
warp: that's a good point I'd say
22:03:24 [reosarevok]
But a common one too
22:03:27 [nikki]
warp: native and advanced are two different things
22:03:29 [hawke_]
I think it’s wrong in the general case
22:03:41 [SultS]
I wanna learn limburgish
22:03:43 [reosarevok]
nikki: you didn't answer earlier - is quenya in the iso 3 list and if so, what do I do to get it added?
22:03:46 [reosarevok]
:)
22:04:01 [reosarevok]
(no, I don't speak it, I need it for a release)
22:04:12 [nikki]
reosarevok: wikipedia will tell you
22:04:16 [v6lur]
i used art./other to indicate my (lack of) knowledge of sindarin :P
22:04:19 [warp]
nikki: yes, native shouldn't be an expression of your knowledge of a language, but that is how it is used here.
22:04:42 [brianfreud]
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22:04:59 [v6lur]
also, reosarevok, which release? :P
22:05:10 [v6lur]
(...you need quenya for)
22:05:11 [hawke_]
Are there any descriptions/estimations of how to determine your fluency levels?
22:05:26 [nikki]
warp: I assume your issue is actually that we don't separate spoken from written :P
22:05:29 [reosarevok]
warp: it does indicate your subconscius knowledge of it is probably bigger than that of an equivalent non-native
22:05:45 [reosarevok]
(say, you'd have an easier time seeing if something is ungrammatical)
22:05:58 [warp]
nikki: quite possibly.
22:06:09 [reosarevok]
But I agree it complements level rather than substituting it
22:06:37 [nikki]
I think other than warp, most native speakers would consider themselves 'advanced', whether they are or not :P
22:06:39 [reosarevok]
v6lur, some stuff on Hexenreich
22:06:46 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok checks
22:06:49 [warp]
reosarevok: I rarely read nor write frisian, so my knowledge of frisian spelling and grammar is pretty bad.
22:07:05 [hawke_]
reosarevok: I hear non-native speakers tend to be actually better than natives…because they actually learn stuff instead of just doing it.
22:07:20 [warp]
reosarevok: but I do consider it my only native language, as opposed to dutch or english.
22:07:28 [hawke_]
i.e. they consciously know the language rather than subconciously.
22:07:31 [nikki]
so any benefit of letting people say they're crappy native speakers would be completely outweighed by the number of people who are like "I'm a native speaker, of *course* I know what I'm talking about!"
22:07:46 [reosarevok]
v6lur: http://musicbrainz.org/release/d8767b11-bae7-4ef4-8d78-c25fc83a543c - which admittedly barely qualifies
22:07:58 [warp]
hawke_: I think it mostly depends on how much of the language you use/consume.
22:08:15 [reosarevok]
hawke_: more correct at writing, yes. better at instinctively finding something wrong with stuff, no
22:08:27 [reosarevok]
(unless you're close to true bilinguism)
22:08:37 [pankkake]
as a French native speaker, I have yet to encounter a non-native able to speak it perfectly
22:09:01 [reosarevok]
And then, there's the French, yes :p
22:09:05 [pankkake]
:p
22:09:21 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Yes, agreed. native: “that seems wrong, it should be this” vs. non-native: “This is wrong because the article doesn’t match the verb” (or whatever)
22:09:23 [warp]
pankkake: but no-one wants to learn french, so that's not surprising :P
22:09:36 [pankkake]
it's understandable, even the French fail at it
22:09:56 [v6lur]
*Simarillion*?! blasphemy!
22:10:08 [v6lur]
(should be Silmarillion, with an L
22:10:09 [reosarevok]
hawke_: my point is that a native who is actually pretty crap at the language will usually be able to do "that seems wrong" even if he can't say "it should be this"
22:10:10 [v6lur]
)
22:10:18 [reosarevok]
v6lur, edit it? :)
22:10:25 [brianfreud]
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22:11:02 [reosarevok]
hawke_: while a foreign-language-student on a similar or even somewhat higher level won't
22:11:31 [hawke_]
reosarevok: perhaps.
22:11:37 [v6lur]
yeah, discogs has it wrong, but luckily it had images
22:11:44 [pankkake]
well, I now have that "feeling" with language I learned
22:11:44 [v6lur]
which had it right
22:11:52 [v6lur]
i.e., edited
22:12:13 [SultS]
it would be pretty terrible if band called uruk-hai had it incorrect :P
22:12:13 [reosarevok]
(I consider myself pretty close to being bilingual in ES + EN, yet I still have some problems with the instinctive feeling thing in EN)
22:12:17 [reosarevok]
(even if it works most of the time)
22:13:46 [v6lur]
SultS: it's still quite, idunno, ironic?, that they'd use quenya in album title -- or the other way around, i.e. uruk-hai as their name :P
22:13:48 [nikki]
and you still make some mistakes that I wouldn't expect a native speaker to make
22:13:50 [SultS]
reosarevok, one reason I didn’t use advanced is because I’m terrible at anything that requires me to tell why something is used this or that way :)
22:14:34 [reosarevok]
nikki: that too, but I've seen native speakers who make many more :) (maybe of a different type, though)
22:14:53 [nikki]
yeah, exactly. different types of mistakes :)
22:15:38 [v6lur]
also, while someone's at it, i'd like sindarin for the lyrics language of the prospective work for http://musicbrainz.org/recording/f919897d-ed12-4417-92d7-f3026283575f :P
22:16:46 [brianfreud]
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22:17:21 [ocharles]
the 2 outstanding release editor crashes should now be fixed
22:17:25 [ocharles]
please let me know if they aren't
22:19:15 [Guest18625]
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22:25:18 [reosarevok]
hawke_: it seems style for classical recordings has passed
22:25:29 [reosarevok]
In case you want to go crazy with work-based edits
22:26:04 [hawke_]
reosarevok: Awesome.
22:26:19 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok should move it to the right place I guess...
22:26:48 [hawke_]
reosarevok: The only thing I don’t like about it is not related to the proposal, and that’s how it spreads stuff onto a new page.
22:27:02 [hawke_]
But I’m happy that it’s finally out there.
22:27:08 [reosarevok]
huh?
22:27:23 [reosarevok]
spreads stuff?
22:27:51 [hawke_]
reosarevok: having a separate page for recordings seems too fine-grained to me.
22:27:58 [reosarevok]
Well, we have it for releases
22:28:14 [reosarevok]
So it fits the rest of http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Classical#Guidelines
22:29:28 [hawke_]
I could just see it leading to separate one-paragraph pages for track artist, track title, release title, release group title, etc. etc.
22:29:41 [hawke_]
Anyway, not a big objection and if/when we get to that we can maybe combine them
22:29:47 [hawke_]
Just wanted to mention it. :-)
22:30:12 [reosarevok]
Yeah, I wouldn't oppose combining it once we have them for all
22:30:15 [brianfreud]
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22:30:28 [reosarevok]
But I feel it helps people clearly see what's guidelined for now
22:34:25 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok tweets and goes to bed
22:36:29 [drsaunde]
Two sips from the cup of human kindness and I'm shitfaced
22:37:45 [derwin]
that's not the cup of human kindness...
22:37:51 [derwin]
2 drsaunde's one cup
22:38:25 [ruaok]
http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1401
22:42:03 [brianfreud]
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22:46:47 [brianfreud]
brianfreud has joined #musicbrainz
22:53:39 [hawke_]
Facepalm? http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/f67f44b3-a8ff-3d7c-8d9d-e67532d9b397/edits
22:54:29 [hawke_]
It appears that the release group was never created?
22:55:51 [demosdemon]
magic
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23:10:31 [v6lur]
v6lur has changed the topic to: MusicBrainz.org | Developers: #musicbrainz-devel | Latest Release: 2012-05-15 - http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1401 | IRC Log: http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org | http://scheduling.ocharles.org.uk/ is currently down, will bbs!
23:12:15 [Dremora_]
STYLE-107 is gonna break all my scrobbles :/
23:16:46 [Anoia]
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23:16:57 [Anoia]
hi peeps
23:17:39 [Anoia]
if I have a group of songs that I know are all in one album, but I don;t know which, is there an easy way to cross reference them or do I need to check each manually?
23:23:52 [brianfreud]
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23:24:04 [Synergist]
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23:28:47 [CallerNo6]
Anoia: do you know the order (i.e. what the tracknumbers are)?
23:30:29 [kepstin]
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23:30:34 [Anoia]
no, they're all tagged with track number 1 :p
23:31:26 [Anoia]
unless the previous tagger literally just used those values for anything it couldn;t identify...
23:32:57 [Anoia]
that's pretty likely actually
23:33:59 [CallerNo6]
hmmm. do you know the number of tracks on the release?
23:35:17 [Anoia]
there re 19 in the folder
23:35:53 [Anoia]
I've looked through and found a few with 19+ tracks on but not yet found a match for all of them
23:36:58 [CallerNo6]
you can try a Recording search for "Foo AND tracks:19" where Foo is the name of one of the tracks.
23:37:21 [Anoia]
ohh, sounds useful, i'll try that when i get back to the album
23:37:34 [CallerNo6]
(you'll need to check the "Indexed search with advanced query syntax " option on the search page
23:37:36 [iliketurtles]
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23:38:37 [Anoia]
thanks
23:38:37 [CallerNo6]
that'll find a track wherever it appears on a release w/ 19 tracks total.
23:39:04 [Anoia]
only just started using musicbrainz/picard to sort a large (messy) collection
23:39:06 [CallerNo6]
more search options @ http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Indexed_Search_Syntax
23:39:20 [Anoia]
with many duplicates and misidentified songs
23:39:34 [Anoia]
it seems to be doing well so far :)
23:39:46 [CallerNo6]
nice
23:45:04 [kepstin]
* kepstin wishes labels in countries other than japan would write the release date on the album art :/
23:46:21 [DremoraIE]
and their cat#s would be structured properly
23:49:14 [pankkake]
label cat#s are mostly lolcat#s
23:52:06 [Anoia]
that's a point
23:52:14 [Anoia]
* Anoia checks their other metadata
23:52:26 [Anoia]
Date: 0000
23:53:08 [Anoia]
nowt :(