IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-07-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:12:55 [hawke_1]
- Thanks for making me feel inadequate, reosarevok.
- 00:13:06 [reosarevok]
- huh?
- 00:14:27 [hawke_1]
- I only have 28k…which seems like a lot to me.
- 00:14:50 [reosarevok]
- It is
- 00:14:58 [reosarevok]
- A lot of mine wouldn't happen if I wasn't an autoeditor
- 00:15:27 [hawke_1]
- You have more than 10× that though
- 00:15:31 [reosarevok]
- Also, I have a lot of "change artists for all recordings of this release" lately
- 00:15:46 [reosarevok]
- Which are relatively fast edits to do and add up fast
- 00:16:38 [hawke_1]
- Also I’ve been here a lot longer than you. :-)
- 00:16:50 [hawke_1]
- making your edit rate even more insane
- 00:16:56 [reosarevok]
- (open all recordings, quickly ctrl+pgdn through the list clicking edit in all of them, ctrl+pgup back opening the artist credit editor, ctrl+pgdn back pasting the stuff in copyable artist credits, ctrl+pgup one last time entering all edits)
- 00:18:53 [reosarevok]
- (same applies to stuff like editing dates for relationships in all of them)
- 00:38:47 [kurtjx]
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- 00:57:39 [derr84]
- It would be good to specify the language of review...
- 00:59:23 [reosarevok]
- huh?
- 00:59:32 [reosarevok]
- Oh, in "has a review at" links?
- 00:59:39 [reosarevok]
- And of biography, huh
- 00:59:55 [reosarevok]
- Not necessarily a bad idea, that
- 01:01:59 [ianmcorvidae]
- I think it requires a schema change, but it's a good idea I think
- 01:03:07 [ianmcorvidae]
- it's in the same vein as allowing entities (artists, releases, works, etc.) on relationship attributes
- 01:03:45 [ianmcorvidae]
- which is nice for some cases, like when groups are composed of members from several other groups, so you could mark it as "<person> is member of <supergroup> via association with <main group>" or whatever
- 01:04:19 [ianmcorvidae]
- (also nice if we eventually move instruments to be entities rather than a gigantic tree in the link_attribute_type table...)
- 01:11:33 [Freso]
- +1 to enable setting language for URL entities (whoever implements it: remember to use hreflang too!).
- 01:14:17 [ianmcorvidae]
- oh, putting it on the URL entities themselves is a good idea, actually
- 01:14:51 [ianmcorvidae]
- avoids bringing in language as a quasi-entity if we make entities attribute-able
- 01:15:47 [ianmcorvidae]
- (still a schema change though)
- 01:15:48 [Freso]
- Heh.
- 01:16:01 [Freso]
- I've thought about proposing it for a few days now.
- 01:16:07 [ianmcorvidae]
- make a ticket, yeah
- 01:16:13 [Freso]
- Yeah.
- 01:16:20 [Freso]
- As I've said, a few days now...
- 01:16:28 [Freso]
- A few days more and I'll do it.
- 01:16:47 [Freso]
- Feel free to beat me to it. ;)
- 01:16:50 [ianmcorvidae]
- :P
- 01:19:38 [bitmap]
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- 01:24:38 [dankine]
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- 01:28:41 [ianweller]
- can i get one more vote (or an approve) on these? http://ur1.ca/9qn31
- 01:30:43 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae voting
- 01:35:58 [ianweller]
- ugh, i just tried entering an edit i entered two days ago
- 01:59:07 [derr84]
- is a cover version every recording except the first one? I mean songs...
- 02:05:40 [derr84]
- an artist A recorded a song X. later she rerecorded this song with an artist B. is it a cover version? :)
- 02:14:29 [derwin]
- yes.
- 02:14:41 [derwin]
- well, it depends on how the re-record is credited.
- 02:14:52 [derwin]
- I think is the right answer?
- 02:17:14 [derwin]
- my girlfriend's opinion is
- 02:17:26 [derwin]
- new artistic entity = "cover"
- 02:17:38 [derwin]
- so.. singer does solo version of a song he wrote in a band = cover
- 02:17:54 [derwin]
- artistic entity does a new version credited "with" someone else = cover
- 02:18:11 [derwin]
- artistic entity does new version with new members due to lineup change = not cover
- 02:18:25 [derwin]
- even imo with 100% replacement
- 02:18:40 [derwin]
- I wonder what the actual rule is...
- 02:19:32 [ianmcorvidae]
- there isn't really an "actual rule"
- 02:19:48 [derwin]
- there may be a proposed guideline
- 02:20:12 [ianmcorvidae]
- I think there was talk some months ago but I haven't heard anything in quite a while on the topic, and nothing came of the discussion AFAIK
- 02:23:06 [derwin]
- is there a "version" AR seperate from "cover"
- 02:23:14 [derwin]
- like "don't stand so close to me '88" or whatever it's called
- 02:23:21 [derwin]
- or the dance versions where they update a dance track
- 02:23:48 [derwin]
- original artist, same.. song.. on some level.. but not really a.. remix..
- 02:23:56 [ianmcorvidae]
- I don't know if there's a version AR other than that, but there is linking to the same work at least
- 02:24:11 [derwin]
- but they're not.. really.. the same work?
- 02:24:12 [ianmcorvidae]
- I guess there's some sort of "other version" AR but it may be deprecated
- 02:24:55 [derwin]
- for like
- 02:25:03 [derwin]
- "ringfinger" <> "twist" ?
- 02:25:16 [derwin]
- where it's twist on the demo and slightly different?
- 02:25:45 [derwin]
- like, the music and lyrics are different, sorta can't be the same work
- 02:25:48 [derwin]
- but.. is.
- 02:27:01 [ianweller]
- are there any examples of weekly radio shows being added to musicbrainz?
- 02:27:11 [ianweller]
- like, official recordings of them, put online
- 02:28:15 [derwin]
- hrm, I wonder, you could look for solid steel
- 02:28:21 [ianweller]
- * ianweller wonder if conetnt of that nature is even in the scope of musicbrainz
- 02:28:21 [derwin]
- except those I think may be issued on some media
- 02:28:33 [JoeLlama]
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- 02:28:46 [ianmcorvidae]
- I'd say it's in-scope but hard to define how to add it
- 02:29:26 [ianweller]
- my specific thought was "wait wait... don't tell me!", which (in general) records each show live weekly
- 02:30:21 [ianweller]
- npr distributes them as a single file, so i would maybe suggest a one-track digital media release titled something like "2012-06-30: Chase Auditorium, Chicago, IL, US"
- 02:30:23 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 02:30:46 [ianweller]
- but who is the artist, what type of release is it, etc etc i don't know for sure
- 02:31:13 [ianweller]
- and perhaps it would be better to prepend the date and location with the title of the program, too
- 02:36:09 [ianweller]
- (heh, except that's not actually where this show was recorded.)
- 02:37:33 [ianweller]
- hmm, NPR releases them both in "single file" form and also in separated files.
- 02:39:04 [ianweller]
- maybe i'll draft up an email and send it to the style list.
- 02:42:22 [ianweller]
- fuck, why are there two NPRs in the database
- 03:23:54 [kurtjx]
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- 04:07:40 [kepstin-netbook_]
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- 04:10:07 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 is on a beer bottle. This is what passes for exciting in his life.
- 04:10:09 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 04:10:27 [CallerNo6]
- http://tallbikeposse.org/wp/?p=663
- 04:18:35 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 05:24:17 [murdos]
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- 05:42:24 [derr84]
- could it be on MB? - https://p.twimg.com/AxH8yuPCMAEiTSL.jpg
- 05:43:53 [derr84]
- :D
- 05:50:13 [ruaok]
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- 07:35:32 [igndenok]
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- 08:02:14 [ianweller]
- any thoughts? http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Ianweller/Radio_program_style
- 08:02:24 [ianweller]
- that's an early draft, really only the things i've thought of are in there
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- 08:15:00 [JoeLlama]
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- 08:19:15 [ianweller]
- ugh i keep getting logged out of the musicbrainz wiki
- 08:27:50 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 08:35:48 [reosarevok]
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- 08:37:05 [ianweller]
- reosarevok: hey, you're around. can i get your opinions on a style proposal before i send it out?
- 08:37:49 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 08:38:02 [ianweller]
- it's not really fleshed out as well as it should be, i think, wanted to see what you think should be added or changed
- 08:40:52 [JoeLlama]
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- 08:42:15 [reosarevok]
- Guess so
- 08:42:32 [ianweller]
- reosarevok: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Ianweller/Radio_program_style
- 08:42:49 [ianweller]
- (there's still a question of whether or not radio programs are in musicbrainz's scope... i would say they are)
- 08:43:32 [reosarevok]
- ocharles would probably agree, since he once said our scope was "audio waves" or something like that
- 08:43:38 [reosarevok]
- (and I don't mind them either)
- 08:43:44 [ianweller]
- hah
- 08:43:55 [reosarevok]
- Hmmm
- 08:44:03 [reosarevok]
- I was expecting them to be standalone recordings
- 08:44:14 [ianweller]
- well, some are, and some aren't
- 08:44:32 [ianweller]
- for NPR's programs, they only distribute online in separate recordings
- 08:45:28 [ianweller]
- well, some they distribute in single recordings, through their podcast system
- 08:45:44 [ianweller]
- "wait wait" they do, but "all things considered" they don't
- 08:48:22 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 08:51:28 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 08:51:41 [reosarevok]
- Well, I don't know a lot about radio so you probably know it better than me
- 08:52:10 [ianweller]
- sure
- 08:52:12 [reosarevok]
- I would consider adding them as "Other + Radio (+ Live)" though
- 08:52:20 [ianweller]
- do we have a 'radio' type?
- 08:52:27 [reosarevok]
- Well, not yet, but isn't this a proposal :p
- 08:52:31 [ianweller]
- true
- 08:52:34 [ianweller]
- does that require a schema change?
- 08:52:37 [reosarevok]
- Nope
- 08:52:41 [reosarevok]
- Not even a release
- 08:52:42 [ianweller]
- well, shit, i'll do that then
- 08:52:57 [reosarevok]
- Just one line of SQL + kicking the caches
- 08:52:59 [ianweller]
- reosarevok: how do i specifically say "we need this edit type added for this proposal"? or do i do that in the ticket
- 08:53:14 [reosarevok]
- Just add it as part of the ticket
- 08:53:17 [reosarevok]
- (and the RFC)
- 08:53:18 [ianweller]
- ok
- 08:53:21 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 08:53:29 [reosarevok]
- And I'll add an MBS ticket for it if/when this passesd
- 08:53:30 [reosarevok]
- *-d
- 08:53:45 [ianweller]
- ok
- 08:57:24 [ianweller]
- reosarevok: any other thoughts before i send this out as a first draft?
- 08:57:42 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 08:57:53 [reosarevok]
- For studio recordings, would you enter the studio as location?
- 08:58:10 [reosarevok]
- Radio X Studio, City, State, Country?
- 08:58:21 [reosarevok]
- (if yes, maybe add one example of it)
- 08:58:35 [ianweller]
- i'm not sure if i would
- 08:58:37 [ianweller]
- should we?
- 08:58:51 [ianweller]
- those are a lot less likely to change than the live ones
- 08:59:03 [reosarevok]
- I don't know, but either do and example it or don't and say it
- 08:59:03 [reosarevok]
- :)
- 08:59:10 [ianweller]
- ok :)
- 08:59:43 [ianweller]
- done
- 08:59:47 [reosarevok]
- And you don't say anything about label
- 09:00:04 [reosarevok]
- Which might be blank, or the radio channel, I guess
- 09:00:38 [ianweller]
- oh yeah
- 09:00:42 [reosarevok]
- And release date, which for stuff that's made available just when it finishes can be recording date I guess, but is that always the case?
- 09:00:45 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok has no idea
- 09:00:47 [ianweller]
- um
- 09:00:56 [ianweller]
- for all of these, the download or streaming is usually available the day of
- 09:00:58 [reosarevok]
- (well, nobody will know about "always", but is that usually the case)
- 09:01:03 [ianweller]
- yeah.
- 09:01:06 [ianweller]
- i'll note that
- 09:01:09 [reosarevok]
- Cool
- 09:01:23 [ianweller]
- unsure what to do about label... i'd say that would be more for who is responsible for distributing it online
- 09:01:33 [ianweller]
- which in general is the syndicator
- 09:01:59 [reosarevok]
- I think the rest is OK
- 09:02:03 [reosarevok]
- And I don't know
- 09:02:14 [ianweller]
- i think i'll go with what i said :)
- 09:02:57 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok wonders if syndication is common outside the US too
- 09:03:34 [reosarevok]
- (in Spain I think programs are simply shared in a network of local samely-branded stations)
- 09:03:58 [reosarevok]
- (I would be very surprised to see a program by brand-name X outside of a brand-name X station)
- 09:04:27 [ianweller]
- in the US, there are many radio stations that are called public radio stations
- 09:04:35 [ianweller]
- they get content from multiple syndicates, or can produce content themselves
- 09:04:47 [ianweller]
- the two most popular syndicates are national public radio and american public media
- 09:05:18 [reosarevok]
- So the NPR is not a series of stations called NPR (Insert Place Name Here)?
- 09:05:25 [ianweller]
- correct
- 09:05:27 [ianweller]
- most public radio stations call themselves an "NPR member station" -- they collect donations from their listeners, and pay for content from NPR with that money
- 09:05:36 [reosarevok]
- Hmm, interesting
- 09:05:50 [ianweller]
- they can be supported by a local institution -- for example, my local station, kansas public radio, is run by the university of kansa
- 09:05:53 [ianweller]
- kansas*
- 09:06:12 [ianweller]
- and they run a different programming schedule than radio kansas, based from hutchinson community college, about 3 hours away
- 09:06:29 [ianweller]
- and they run a different programming schedule than high plains public radio, based in western kansas (somewhere)
- 09:07:09 [ianweller]
- and that's just public radio. commercial radio is an entirely different ball game
- 09:07:19 [ianweller]
- but often doesn't have nationally-broadcast programs like public radio stations
- 09:11:11 [reosarevok]
- :)
- 09:11:12 [reosarevok]
- I see
- 09:11:34 [reosarevok]
- I think in Spain all the name-branded radios run the same basic schedule, with some slots for local content
- 09:11:40 [reosarevok]
- (which obviously change)
- 09:12:02 [reosarevok]
- So I guess there the brand would be the equivalent of your syndicator
- 09:12:23 [ianweller]
- yeah.
- 09:12:36 [ianweller]
- hmm, just realized some shows have show numbers
- 09:13:01 [ianweller]
- adding that to the release title...
- 09:14:55 [ianweller]
- reosarevok: does this look right? "2012-06-30: A Prairie Home Companion, number 1348: Koussevitzky Music Shed, Lenox, MA, USA"
- 09:15:01 [ianweller]
- specifically the "number 1348" part
- 09:15:27 [reosarevok]
- I might just say "A Prairie Home Companion 1348" or "A Prairie Home Companion, No. 1348"
- 09:15:33 [reosarevok]
- Or #1348
- 09:15:40 [reosarevok]
- But none of those look wrong per se
- 09:15:42 [ianweller]
- is there any currently existing style guideline for numbers
- 09:15:46 [ianweller]
- or am i just dreaming it
- 09:17:15 [reosarevok]
- Not exactly
- 09:17:25 [reosarevok]
- But there is http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Titles/Series_numbers
- 09:17:42 [ianweller]
- i'm gonna go with #1234
- 09:18:15 [reosarevok]
- But that doesn't apply to all, or you end like the guy who wanted to do stuff like turning "Series Name 1" into "Series Name, 1"
- 09:18:41 [reosarevok]
- (wonder if he would have continued with turning "Series Name 2004" into "Series Name, 2004" :D
- 09:18:42 [reosarevok]
- )
- 09:19:09 [ianweller]
- doing mass changes without talking to someone first is absurd :P
- 09:20:53 [reosarevok]
- Well, guidelines, you know!
- 09:20:53 [reosarevok]
- :p
- 09:21:06 [ianweller]
- :)
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- 09:43:46 [reosarevok]
- pffft
- 09:43:47 [reosarevok]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/cf3e291b-bfd1-4725-9326-af9242580e98
- 09:43:56 [reosarevok]
- Someone tell me what to do with all that
- 09:44:05 [reosarevok]
- (all those Publisher credits)
- 09:44:42 [reosarevok]
- Hmm, http://www.sicam.org.br/
- 09:44:48 [reosarevok]
- Obviously not an artist-person then
- 09:46:15 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok removes it from works
- 09:47:13 [ianweller]
- hmm
- 09:47:57 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 09:48:00 [reosarevok]
- At least from the Milhaud works
- 09:48:26 [reosarevok]
- He was French, I honestly doubt the Brazilian publishing house is the main publisher for the works
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- * ianweller sends this out
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- 11:53:41 [murdos]
- what cover art type would you use for the left part of this image: http://ia600609.s3dns.us.archive.org/mbid-d5488b8b-7a86-4bda-a66d-aa3ddd32d4a3/mbid-d5488b8b-7a86-4bda-a66d-aa3ddd32d4a3-1407889376.jpg ?
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- 11:55:29 [reosarevok]
- Booklet maybe'
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- 14:55:23 [xplt]
- hi! Should I vote down this edit: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/18188021 ?
- 14:57:27 [xplt]
- AFAIR, someone here was against such "covert-arts" on Amazon...
- 15:09:53 [CallerNo6]
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- 15:10:22 [reosarevok]
- xplt: you certainly could
- 15:10:41 [reosarevok]
- It would be nicer if you also cropped and uploaded a better version for this one to show him what we prefer
- 15:11:22 [reosarevok]
- ... or just use http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YL55h0QYfpE/TsJ7uqvR92I/AAAAAAAABGU/b2blPqj8uG4/s1600/Raise%2BThe%2BDevil.jpg I guess
- 15:11:38 [reosarevok]
- Although the color's not too good... wonder which one is closer to the real deal
- 15:12:11 [xplt]
- reosarevok: I see... Thanks! :)
- 15:40:14 [Freso]
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- 16:29:36 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 16:29:46 [hrglgrmpf]
- reosarevok: hi!
- 16:30:12 [reosarevok]
- Hi :)
- 16:32:21 [hrglgrmpf]
- what is your plan to reach conclusion on this Code of Botduct?
- 16:32:35 [reosarevok]
- That is a very good question :p
- 16:32:58 [hrglgrmpf]
- currently the only limit I have is 1000 edits per day
- 16:33:04 [reosarevok]
- I think when we have some ideas of what the -devel people want (which seems to be more or less fine now)
- 16:33:12 [reosarevok]
- We can move it to -users
- 16:33:16 [reosarevok]
- And see if people disagree there
- 16:33:18 [hrglgrmpf]
- I don't know if -devel is the right list
- 16:33:19 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes
- 16:33:34 [hrglgrmpf]
- can we have polls in the forums now?
- 16:33:40 [reosarevok]
- I don't know
- 16:33:43 [hrglgrmpf]
- it is mainly an issue for voters...
- 16:34:01 [hrglgrmpf]
- so for power-users
- 16:34:13 [hrglgrmpf]
- they should tell the bot-writers what limit they find useful
- 16:34:35 [hrglgrmpf]
- the 1000 bots limit was suggested by murdos I think
- 16:34:45 [hrglgrmpf]
- s/bots/edits/
- 16:35:00 [reosarevok]
- Yeah
- 16:35:21 [hrglgrmpf]
- you are a power-user too, so do you think there are too many bot edits, or what limit would you suggest?
- 16:35:22 [reosarevok]
- The main issue is trying to avoid cases like a few days ago where more then 1/4th of the edit queue was open bot edits
- 16:35:40 [hrglgrmpf]
- ah, the discogs-remove thing...
- 16:35:48 [hrglgrmpf]
- yes, I have many of them left to vote for myself...
- 16:35:50 [reosarevok]
- That, and all the others
- 16:36:01 [reosarevok]
- (but yeah, discogs-remove was like half of that)
- 16:36:33 [hrglgrmpf]
- what limit would you find useful?
- 16:36:55 [reosarevok]
- Well, I wrote the one currently in the code (for open edits)
- 16:37:01 [reosarevok]
- so I obviously agree with that one
- 16:37:15 [hrglgrmpf]
- ok...
- 16:37:15 [reosarevok]
- I guess a limit on autoedits per day would be sane too, and maybe 1k is fine?
- 16:37:34 [reosarevok]
- (or 1k total per day, 1k to 1.5k open at the same time)
- 16:37:37 [reosarevok]
- (dunno)
- 16:37:47 [reosarevok]
- I expect more talk about that to come up in -users
- 16:38:14 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 16:39:54 [hrglgrmp1]
- hrglgrmp1 has joined #musicbrainz
- 16:40:07 [hrglgrmp1]
- sorry, internet a little bit unstable...
- 16:40:18 [hrglgrmp1]
- we need a limit for auto-edits for users that check all their subscription mails
- 16:41:15 [reosarevok]
- <reosarevok> I guess a limit on autoedits per day would be sane too, and maybe 1k is fine?
- 16:41:15 [reosarevok]
- <reosarevok> (or 1k total per day, 1k to 1.5k open at the same time)
- 16:41:15 [reosarevok]
- <reosarevok> (dunno)
- 16:41:15 [reosarevok]
- <reosarevok> I expect more talk about that to come up in -users
- 16:41:27 [reosarevok]
- (dunno if you got that or not)
- 16:42:05 [hrglgrmp1]
- I read the chatlogs :-)
- 16:46:26 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 16:46:46 [KRSCuan]
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- 16:46:55 [hrglgrmp1]
- why are bots not allowed to vote by the way?
- 16:46:59 [hrglgrmp1]
- I had a little thought of writing a bot that votes "no" (with good explanation) to certain edits (barcode mismatch when linking to ASINs)
- 16:47:02 [hrglgrmp1]
- but I don't have too, so the rule is ok with me :-)
- 16:49:21 [hrglgrmp1]
- it would be cool if you could post a mail to -users with a time limit (like 2 or 3 weeks), until it will become official
- 16:50:05 [hrglgrmp1]
- otherwise it will hang in the air forever, and we will never have a guideline
- 16:51:16 [reosarevok]
- Yeah
- 16:51:42 [reosarevok]
- Well, half-yeah. Since it's not style or anything, we're asking for opinions rather than for a decision
- 16:51:56 [reosarevok]
- So we could always be like "so, we're implementing it like this" anyway
- 16:52:05 [reosarevok]
- But giving a date from the get-go avoids surprises :)
- 16:52:20 [hrglgrmp1]
- yes, but we all know we need such a code of conduct
- 16:52:50 [hrglgrmp1]
- yes... and without date a) nobody cares b) no decision is ever made
- 16:53:09 [hrglgrmp1]
- if you give a date, somebody can still say "i object to this, lets delay it 2 weeks"
- 16:53:23 [hrglgrmp1]
- or even if the conduct is official, it is no problem to change it with good reason
- 16:53:36 [reosarevok]
- My point was more that if nobody cared, then we could just say "fine, so be it, we'll do it like that then"
- 16:53:41 [reosarevok]
- But yeah
- 16:54:43 [reosarevok]
- No real reason *not* to give it a date :)
- 17:01:25 [hrglgrmp1]
- :-)
- 17:02:15 [Mineo]
- hey reosarevok, did you get the memo I sent you?
- 17:03:15 [reosarevok]
- Unsure
- 17:03:17 [reosarevok]
- When?
- 17:03:35 [Mineo]
- earlier today via freenodes memoserv
- 17:04:06 [Mineo]
- I was asking for http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Title_Style to be a redirect to the soundtrack style, not http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases#Soundtracks
- 17:05:03 [reosarevok]
- No
- 17:05:05 [reosarevok]
- But done
- 17:05:11 [Mineo]
- cool, thanks :-)
- 17:08:13 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 17:11:50 [kurtjx]
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- 18:02:32 [derwin]
- is there a link to the code of botduct
- 18:02:38 [derwin]
- or would I have to be on the list?
- 18:03:46 [warp]
- derwin: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Code_of_Botduct
- 18:04:03 [warp]
- derwin: that is the proposal for it from reosarevok.
- 18:04:42 [reosarevok]
- Not only me, really, I was writing it as people debated in the devel IRC
- 18:04:44 [reosarevok]
- But yeah
- 18:05:00 [ianmcorvidae]
- that happens to be in reosarevok's user namespace, mostly :P
- 18:05:23 [warp]
- reosarevok: well, you are its steward for now.
- 18:05:32 [warp]
- I did not intend to imply that you wrote all of it.
- 18:05:34 [reosarevok]
- Guess so
- 18:05:41 [reosarevok]
- Man, why do I keep on piling responsibilities :p
- 18:11:40 [navap]
- CallerNo6: ping
- 18:13:28 [CallerNo6]
- navap: pong
- 18:14:37 [navap]
- I saw you added some NGS history info
- 18:15:02 [navap]
- I'd much rather see that blurb added to the bottom of the DB schema page
- 18:15:11 [navap]
- And leave the NGS pages as redirects to the schema page
- 18:15:34 [reosarevok]
- navap: I don't think I agree anymore
- 18:15:45 [reosarevok]
- I mean, it was useful before, when NGS was "the new thing"
- 18:16:04 [reosarevok]
- But the few times people ask "NGS?" lately, they want to know what we mean, not the current DB schema
- 18:16:08 [reosarevok]
- (which has changed since then)
- 18:16:28 [reosarevok]
- (and what we mean is, the set of changes released in May 2011)
- 18:16:34 [navap]
- hm
- 18:16:45 [CallerNo6]
- exactly. i wanted to define "ngs" for newish editors
- 18:16:54 [CallerNo6]
- (and put it in context)
- 18:18:27 [CallerNo6]
- I wouldn't mind doing that on a glossary page. The only problem is, a wiki search for NGS will go straight to the schema page rather than listing other hits.
- 18:21:55 [ianmcorvidae]
- we can change the redirect to an entry in a glossary or something, perhaps, or to a specific section of a page
- 18:22:11 [ianmcorvidae]
- and put a link to the full page on the schema
- 18:22:19 [ianmcorvidae]
- I think that'd be my thought on it
- 18:22:59 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae: huh, if you were to change the redirect, why not just do it into the terminology page for NGS?
- 18:23:25 [navap]
- Which terminology page?
- 18:24:48 [reosarevok]
- The one CallerNo6 was supposed to be writing IIRC
- 18:25:07 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 hangs his head in shame
- 18:26:13 [navap]
- Do you mean a page that describes each of the entities? That kind of terminology?
- 18:27:40 [reosarevok]
- I mean a page that describes the changes
- 18:27:50 [reosarevok]
- (the specific NGS changes)
- 18:28:20 [reosarevok]
- So that if someone wants to know "so what is/was this NGS thing" they can
- 18:28:21 [navap]
- Don't the NGS release notes already do that?
- 18:28:34 [navap]
- http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Server_Release_Notes/20110516
- 18:28:53 [reosarevok]
- Hmmm
- 18:29:00 [reosarevok]
- Then maybe that's what we should be redirecting to?
- 18:30:17 [navap]
- I think I'd be okay with that
- 18:30:18 [CallerNo6]
- I thought I gave a good overview of what "NGS" is. I don't really care where we put it, as long as it's searchable on the wiki.
- 18:30:46 [navap]
- CallerNo6: I agree. I liked how you mentioned that pre-NGS/post-NGS bit
- 18:32:58 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 looks at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MusicBrainz_Terminology and despairs
- 18:33:10 [reosarevok]
- :D
- 18:33:23 [reosarevok]
- Was it because of my redirect? Sorry :)
- 18:34:04 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok tries to write /Style/Classical/Language/Estonian
- 18:34:13 [reosarevok]
- Not that anyone except me would use it right now, I guess, but...
- 18:34:22 [reosarevok]
- At least it would probably remind me to be consistent :p
- 18:37:39 [ianmcorvidae]
- it's at least marginally more useful than my Server Internationalisation/Esperanto page :P
- 18:42:01 [reosarevok]
- v6lur: ping
- 18:42:12 [v6lur]
- pong
- 18:43:29 [reosarevok]
- Do you happen to have any idea of whether there is a more standard style for music keys in Estonian?
- 18:43:47 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok keeps finding, for example, both "re-minoor" and "re minoor"
- 18:44:10 [reosarevok]
- (and we probably should specify one of the two options, even though I'll prefer -duur and -moll)
- 18:44:20 [v6lur]
- hm
- 18:45:08 [v6lur]
- * v6lur goes search
- 18:45:46 [reosarevok]
- Also both "la mažoor" and "La mažoor", while the key for "x minoor" seems to be almost always lowercased
- 18:54:47 [|Frederik]
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- 18:55:15 [|Frederik]
- There's a disc id which is attached to two different releases, one of them is wrong. How can I remove it?
- 18:56:53 [v6lur]
- so
- 18:56:56 [v6lur]
- http://www.eki.ee/dict/qs/index.cgi?Q=*m%5Bai%5D%5B%C5%BEn%5D*oor&F=A&C02=1&C03=1&C05=1
- 18:57:05 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 ponders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_size#A_rule_of_thumb
- 18:57:06 [v6lur]
- this is how the guys at EKI write them
- 18:57:14 [v6lur]
- (ignore "luminofoor :P )
- 18:57:36 [reosarevok]
- |Frederik: go the the DiscID tab in the release where it's wrong
- 18:57:40 [reosarevok]
- And press Remove
- 18:58:07 [reosarevok]
- v6lur, awesome, thanks :D
- 18:58:23 [v6lur]
- so -- with dash, not space, and first letter of duur/mažoor uppercase, moll/minoor lowercase
- 18:58:26 [reosarevok]
- What's this page exactly? A doubts dictionary?
- 18:58:39 [v6lur]
- it's THE dictionary
- 18:58:40 [|Frederik]
- reosarevok, thanks! I guess it's "normal" that it is not executed immediately but needs approval?
- 18:58:52 [reosarevok]
- |Frederik: yeah, that's the case for most edits
- 18:58:52 [v6lur]
- almost like Duden for German
- 18:59:04 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok bookmarks
- 18:59:21 [v6lur]
- (but of course they say that it is all recommendations i there)
- 18:59:37 [v6lur]
- in
- 18:59:39 [v6lur]
- *
- 18:59:58 [reosarevok]
- Sure, sure
- 19:00:11 [reosarevok]
- Only the Spanish and a few others actually go fully prescriptivist :p
- 19:07:01 [v6lur]
- where are you writing it? not on wiki yet, apparently :P (or at least not saved yet)
- 19:08:15 [JoeLlama]
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- 19:09:49 [reosarevok]
- Not saved yet
- 19:30:46 [reosarevok]
- v6lur: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Style/Classical/Language/Estonian
- 19:30:53 [reosarevok]
- Go destroy my assumptions :p
- 19:31:43 [reosarevok]
- (no, I haven't tried to translate it. well, I have thought about it, seen I lack the basic vocabulary and stopped)
- 19:33:08 [v6lur]
- looks good to me... mind if i translate it?
- 19:33:34 [reosarevok]
- Wasn't that the idea all along? :)
- 19:33:42 [v6lur]
- :D
- 19:34:10 [reosarevok]
- I guess I should actually write one of these for Spanish, hih
- 19:34:13 [reosarevok]
- *huh even
- 19:34:47 [Vorpal]
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- 19:48:08 [ocharles]
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- 19:48:55 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: there, i fix- *ahem* translated it
- 19:49:07 [v6lur]
- i changed the bit about quotes a bit
- 19:49:35 [v6lur]
- EKI recommends using „” (although „“ are widely used as well)
- 19:49:49 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 19:50:07 [reosarevok]
- If we're going to mandate anything that's not "" I'd go for the most correct ones
- 19:50:29 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok just copied the ones from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English_usage_of_quotation_marks :)
- 19:51:26 [reosarevok]
- Are any of the two easily entered with an Estonian keyboard?
- 19:51:33 [v6lur]
- no
- 19:51:44 [reosarevok]
- aww
- 19:52:10 [v6lur]
- unless the user has custom keyboard layout
- 19:52:14 [v6lur]
- (like i do)
- 19:53:19 [reosarevok]
- So, not really
- 19:53:26 [reosarevok]
- Well, I guess we should still mandate them
- 19:53:39 [reosarevok]
- But in that case, I'd just mandate the most correct ones for sure
- 19:53:52 [reosarevok]
- (at least when people ignore it, we'll know what to change it too...)
- 19:54:20 [reosarevok]
- Might be interesting to add some info about that to the general http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Language/Estonian , really
- 20:01:13 [reosarevok]
- Probably just recommending/preferring it instead of actually mandating it, there? dunno
- 20:01:26 [ijabz]
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- 20:01:33 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: i added the source to my claim that „” is the pair preferred by EKI :)
- 20:02:07 [v6lur]
- (of course, anyony [with access to estonian books] could just take a look in their publications :P )
- 20:07:13 [v6lur]
- btw, i was wondering the other day: shouldn't wiki use typographical quote marks and other such niceties?
- 20:07:33 [reosarevok]
- Yes
- 20:07:37 [reosarevok]
- It should
- 20:07:42 [CallerNo6]
- as the saying goes, "thanks for volunteering!"
- 20:07:47 [reosarevok]
- But we're all a bunch of lazy bastards
- 20:07:51 [v6lur]
- :D
- 20:07:53 [reosarevok]
- Except jacobbrett I guess
- 20:08:01 [reosarevok]
- (who did go around fixing some at some point)
- 20:08:09 [v6lur]
- okay, but then i'll fix them as i come across them :P
- 20:08:13 [reosarevok]
- Sure
- 20:42:42 [buremba]
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- 20:43:51 [buremba]
- there is an error in date_year in this release: http://musicbrainz.org/release/9c9662ec-9f32-42b3-974f-40a9b24a756d
- 20:44:16 [reosarevok]
- Yes, there is
- 20:44:17 [buremba]
- my denormalized table is broken because of that release. :)
- 20:44:33 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 20:44:53 [reosarevok]
- You should be able to deal with users being st... having problems to understand yyyy-mm-dd
- 20:45:04 [reosarevok]
- Fixed anyway
- 20:46:08 [buremba]
- reosarevok: I created a timestamp column and now I can see this is not a good choice.
- 20:46:52 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok tells the user anyway
- 20:47:07 [buremba]
- I couldn't change the date from musicbrainz.org
- 20:47:12 [buremba]
- it seems you did it.
- 20:47:14 [buremba]
- thanks
- 20:47:41 [reosarevok]
- Huh, you couldn't? It's just done by editing the release and changing the date fields...
- 20:47:56 [reosarevok]
- (although it still needs to pass unless you can autoedit it like I just did)
- 20:48:38 [reosarevok]
- v6lur: do you want to make any changes to /Style/Language/Estonian now that it isn't just CapitalizationStandard?
- 20:48:44 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok is not sure if any are needed
- 20:49:34 [buremba]
- upps, I only checked "Editing" header in sidebar and there is no option like that. It's in tab section, now I can see.
- 20:56:00 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: could mention the quote thing, i guess...
- 20:56:37 [reosarevok]
- While you're around, any idea if "Taas punab pihlakaid" and "Taas punab pihlapuid" are the same song?
- 20:56:46 [reosarevok]
- The credited composer at least is the same...
- 20:57:18 [SultS]
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- 20:58:08 [hrglgrmpf]
- hrglgrmpf has joined #musicbrainz
- 20:58:09 [v6lur]
- probably the same, but i'm not very sure
- 21:00:32 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok will assume they are
- 21:00:40 [reosarevok]
- Someone can unlink the work later if they're not
- 21:03:07 [hrglgrmp1]
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- 21:06:04 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: proposed change visible at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Mihhkel/Style/Language/Estonian
- 21:06:31 [reosarevok]
- Seems fine
- 21:06:47 [jcazevedo]
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- 21:07:34 [v6lur]
- SultS: ^ ideas for additions/changes?
- 21:11:39 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok RFCs the classical part
- 21:13:12 [SultS]
- v6lur: any idea how to tell to capitalize the first word on alternative titles like in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/16341610 for people who don’t speak the language?
- 21:13:55 [SultS]
- well… opposite to that edit…
- 21:18:33 [v6lur]
- how about now?
- 21:23:12 [SultS]
- “if it is not part of the preceding phrase” … alternative title should probably always be separate and not part of the preceding phrase?
- 21:24:23 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok can't really see how a non-Estonian speaker would be able to see if it is or not
- 21:24:34 [reosarevok]
- On the other hand, that's bound to happen with any language anyway
- 21:24:38 [SultS]
- http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Language/English has “capitalize each distinct piece of the title as if it were a distinct title”, perhaps use wording from that
- 21:24:56 [SultS]
- it’s also for different parts of the same title though
- 21:24:58 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 21:25:34 [SultS]
- reosarevok: yeah, I’m not sure how to make it clear that’s it’s an alternate title, not part of the “normal” one
- 21:25:49 [v6lur]
- hm
- 21:25:55 [reosarevok]
- Oh, I can think of ways to say that
- 21:26:01 [reosarevok]
- I just don't know if it matters
- 21:26:07 [reosarevok]
- Since it's pretty hard to realise
- 21:27:01 [v6lur]
- what i meant was that sometimes alt-title is a continuation of the 'official' title
- 21:27:21 [v6lur]
- and in those cases i'd like it to stay lowercase in parentheses
- 21:27:24 [SultS]
- examples?
- 21:27:35 [v6lur]
- a moment...
- 21:28:31 [reosarevok]
- The only title with parentheses I can think of right now is http://musicbrainz.org/work/9afb23cc-7409-41e5-9773-4c3eb0945350
- 21:29:55 [MaskMaster]
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- 21:32:30 [v6lur]
- like this http://musicbrainz.org/recording/3f59bead-d1b4-4aa7-b00d-4f5f15cb27c3
- 21:32:48 [SultS]
- reosarevok: my guess would actually be that at least originally there was no alternate title… I could be wrong though
- 21:32:56 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: i think cases like yours are far more common
- 21:33:40 [v6lur]
- i agree it's not an alt-title as such -- just that someone could try to interpret it as that
- 21:33:55 [v6lur]
- (i.e. cap the "kuid")
- 21:34:13 [SultS]
- v6lur, not sure I’d call it an alternate title… to me it would have to be able to be a proper title (make sense) without the first part
- 21:34:55 [v6lur]
- yea, my wording is far from perfect :P
- 21:35:17 [SultS]
- I would think most people would rather only capitalize the 1st word of the whole title and not also every 1st word in a parentheses
- 21:39:58 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 21:43:07 [reosarevok]
- And in the list of "releases nobody will ever care about", I present you http://musicbrainz.org/release/5a07b572-7aba-48b8-8b95-e7641540ec08 !
- 21:43:54 [reosarevok]
- Entering the exact dates for each recording relationship might just have been the most nobody-will-ever-care bit of editing I've ever done
- 21:44:09 [ianmcorvidae]
- my desktop computer is named after one of those birds :P
- 21:45:04 [hrglgrmpf]
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- 21:45:45 [reosarevok]
- etu, are you there? ;)
- 21:46:15 [SultS]
- reosarevok: what do you mean [no artist]? clearly the the title = the artist :P
- 21:46:39 [ianmcorvidae]
- [unknown bird of species <x>]? :P
- 21:46:39 [reosarevok]
- heh, freeDB had "Linnud ja konnad"
- 21:46:48 [reosarevok]
- (as release artist)
- 21:47:03 [SultS]
- go add an artist “mets” :)
- 21:47:23 [reosarevok]
- lol
- 21:51:28 [SultS]
- nice, http://erb.nlib.ee/?kid=1239824x might allow me to listen to it…
- 21:51:53 [reosarevok]
- Don't you need to be doing it from the actual library?
- 21:52:00 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok doesn't know how that thing works
- 21:52:33 [SultS]
- maybe… but right now I only see it allows me to either register online or use my ID card
- 21:53:01 [reosarevok]
- huh
- 21:53:10 [reosarevok]
- where?
- 21:53:22 [reosarevok]
- If I click the mp3 thing I just get a 403
- 21:53:38 [reosarevok]
- Oh, maybe if I log in
- 21:54:10 [SultS]
- “logi sisse” → https://login.nlib.ee/cas/login?service=http://erb.nlib.ee/login.php
- 21:54:30 [reosarevok]
- Yeah, taking my ID card
- 21:55:08 [SultS]
- the text there seems to imply you don’t have to be in the library
- 21:55:40 [the_metalgamer]
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- 22:01:50 [reosarevok]
- SultS: oh, but I have to be a member of that library
- 22:02:03 [reosarevok]
- Which I seem not to be (only Tartu LR and TÜR)
- 22:03:15 [SultS]
- hmm… registered, logged in, still getting 403… doesn’t say anything about member requirement
- 22:03:30 [reosarevok]
- Hm
- 22:03:35 [reosarevok]
- So what number did you enter then?
- 22:03:36 [SultS]
- ah
- 22:03:38 [reosarevok]
- Just your ID one?
- 22:03:39 [SultS]
- “Ligipääs keelatud - failidele pääseb ligi vaid EMTA sisevõrgust!”
- 22:03:45 [SultS]
- yeah
- 22:03:50 [SultS]
- http://mp3.ema.edu.ee/
- 22:04:02 [reosarevok]
- Aww
- 22:06:13 [v6lur]
- SultS, reosarevok: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Mihhkel/Style/Language/Estonian -- how's the wording now? :)
- 22:09:17 [v6lur]
- talk about alternative titles... http://musicbrainz.org/release/37769b9d-1f8a-46e0-aba8-838e06b70d29 O_o
- 22:09:22 [SultS]
- v6lur: what are “pärisnimed”? :) nicknames should be capitalized
- 22:10:00 [reosarevok]
- v6lur: actually, I think that might be the words for it and it should probably be in quotes instead...
- 22:10:11 [reosarevok]
- (the start of each part of the cantata)
- 22:10:27 [SultS]
- “Päike on kõikide päralt (Mitte häda ja vaev)” should be all lower case, I would say
- 22:11:24 [reosarevok]
- http://muusika24.ee/Muusika/song/P%C3%A4ike-on-k%C3%B5ikide-p%C3%A4ralt-Mitte-h%C3%A4da-ja-vaev
- 22:11:28 [reosarevok]
- It's indeed the start of the lyrics
- 22:11:54 [reosarevok]
- (the part in parentheses)
- 22:12:30 [SultS]
- interesting :(
- 22:12:32 [SultS]
- :)
- 22:12:33 [SultS]
- *
- 22:12:37 [reosarevok]
- v6lur: "The first word of an alternative title in parentheses should be capitalized as well; if the parentheses do not contain an alternative title, but a continuation of the preceding phrase, it shouldn't be capitalized." ?
- 22:15:42 [v6lur]
- reosarevok: better indeed
- 22:19:29 [v6lur]
- SultS: updated
- 22:21:51 [SultS]
- that looks good :)
- 22:22:40 [SultS]
- but I’m done for today :) good night :)
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