IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-10-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 01:09:03 [derwin]
- wow
- 01:09:04 [derwin]
- Your musical compatibility with DrMuller is LOW
- 01:09:20 [derwin]
- he has 240k plays, I have 100k, and we have low enough intersect for that
- 01:10:52 [Lotheric]
- hehe
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- 02:50:42 [derwin]
- ouch, I am getting moiderized in the auto-editor voting
- 02:51:13 [derwin]
- I do my best to follow guidelines and be reasonable.. and am very responsive to feedback.. :)
- 03:03:55 [Leftmost]
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- 03:29:08 [derwin]
- http://www.bennjordan.com/blog/?p=499
- 03:33:50 [CallerNo6]
- "inept" is what I say when I'm around people who would be offended by a different word.
- 03:35:03 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae just wonders if the two versions (if you can call them that) are both in MB :P
- 03:36:32 [CallerNo6]
- "Benn Jordan & some birds"?
- 04:22:29 [frewsxcv]
- i heard benn jordan
- 04:46:22 [CallerNo6]
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- 07:11:54 [derwin]
- 23:35 * ianmcorvidae just wonders if the two versions (if you can call them that) are both in MB :P
- 07:11:57 [derwin]
- +1
- 07:12:06 [derwin]
- benn jordan is solid, I enjoy his artistic direction
- 07:17:51 [drsaunde]
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- 07:39:57 [jacobbrett]
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- 07:40:49 [jacobbrett]
- Should a re-release of two albums together be considered a compilation? http://musicbrainz.org/edit/18059116
- 07:51:30 [reosarevok]
- http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release%20Group/Type#Compilation says no
- 07:51:41 [reosarevok]
- (I'm not sure if I agree)
- 07:57:28 [warp]
- I agree.
- 07:58:47 [warp]
- though probably not in all cases.
- 08:00:20 [Wizzcat]
- a case for boxset secondary type?
- 08:01:29 [warp]
- no, we need proper support in musicbrainz for releases which solely or predominantly consist of previously released albums.
- 08:03:31 [Wizzcat]
- sure, I was just thinking as a temporary fix
- 08:04:14 [Wizzcat]
- though I guess if we've made do all these years then it's not really a big deal
- 08:06:25 [warp]
- well, I guess temporary fixes usually also help with migrating the data to when we finally get the real fix.
- 08:11:37 [jmvanel]
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- 08:39:00 [jcazevedo]
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- 09:08:18 [portik]
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- 09:10:24 [jacobbrett]
- Is a German single releasing on Friday common (in the 90s)?
- 09:21:32 [Freso]
- jacobbrett: Isn't there a wiki page for "common" release dates?
- 09:26:18 [robmorrissey]
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- 09:35:59 [reosarevok]
- bitmap, could you update http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/117663 for https? :)
- 09:38:44 [Innocuous]
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- 09:40:34 [Freso]
- bitmap: Also, ..://*musicbrainz.org/... should work instead of having the three different sites all listed.
- 09:41:47 [Freso]
- https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/128593 too, bitmap :D
- 09:42:05 [Freso]
- reosarevok: userscripts.org is also available via HTTPS, btw. :p
- 09:42:36 [reosarevok]
- Freso: I actually don't see the point of us using it anywhere but the login... but I clicked on a link to it :p
- 09:45:36 [warp]
- reosarevok: https on login protects only your password. https all the time also protects your cookie.
- 09:47:11 [warp]
- (and ofcourse prevents someone else from seeing that you're visiting the justin bieber artist page)
- 09:48:34 [reosarevok]
- But it's just to curse at it!
- 09:48:35 [reosarevok]
- 8)
- 09:57:25 [Freso]
- ... What?
- 09:57:36 [Freso]
- Oh.
- 09:57:51 [Freso]
- * Freso didn't see warp's paranthetical message
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- 10:14:01 [jacobbrett]
- Freso: Ah, you're right: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Release_Date "Germany Friday (was Monday before summer 2005)"
- 10:15:03 [jacobbrett]
- I go to the Bieber page all the time...
- 10:15:23 [kovacsur]
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- 10:15:51 [Freso]
- jacobbrett: Wouldn't "was Monday before summer 2005" indicate that if it was released in the 90's, it is more likely to have been released on a Monday?
- 10:16:15 [jacobbrett]
- Freso: Indeed, though perhaps Friday was also valid back then *shrugs*.
- 10:16:33 [Freso]
- jacobbrett: All days are always valid, aren't they? :)
- 10:17:54 [jacobbrett]
- Sure, and I really don't know what major label release schedules look like, but I assume Friday, historically, has been significant, else they wouldn't have switched to it?
- 10:22:36 [reosarevok]
- So, who wants to write a how-to for the relationship editor?
- 10:29:15 [jacobbrett]
- Has Any one submit sticker designs? http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1608
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- 10:30:11 [kovacsur]
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- 10:32:18 [reosarevok]
- Certainly not me...
- 10:49:47 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- hmm I'm not completely daft at such
- 10:50:39 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I'd need to know e.g., max amount of colours, pixel x pixel size
- 10:51:01 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- and evnt. any slogans particular
- 10:52:04 [drsaunde]
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- 10:52:16 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- btw, anyone in germany?
- 10:53:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- * ZaphodBeeblebrox is getting fed up with amazon not shipping shit to his homecountry
- 10:53:34 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- i need an address in germany to sendhttp://www.amazon.de/Zum-Ritter-St-Georg-Bier-Shampoo/dp/B0093WZVZ0/ .. I wil pay for your extra post and package to send it to me also
- 10:53:40 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- erh, http://www.amazon.de/Zum-Ritter-St-Georg-Bier-Shampoo/dp/B0093WZVZ0/
- 10:54:11 [jmv_]
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- 10:54:26 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- used to have tis in norway, bu then the store that carried it decided that "nope" and now only have one bottle, it's also ancient xd
- 10:56:17 [Lotheric]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19317306
- 10:56:23 [Lotheric]
- can anyone chime in ?
- 10:56:50 [noobie]
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- 10:59:31 [kovacsur]
- typewriter apostrophe as artist intent? o_O
- 10:59:51 [reosarevok]
- I've seen weirder things
- 10:59:57 [reosarevok]
- But yeah, he'd have to prove it :p
- 11:00:43 [Lotheric]
- I too found that odd
- 11:00:55 [kovacsur]
- I can imagine cases where it makes sense, such as http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/51f03e81-4a3d-30da-93f8-94b01f0e5a2c
- 11:01:04 [kovacsur]
- but not here
- 11:05:15 [reosarevok]
- great album btw
- 11:05:27 [reosarevok]
- Haven't listened to it in forever
- 11:06:05 [Lotheric]
- do it now! :)
- 11:09:15 [v6lur]
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- 11:09:46 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- that reminds me
- 11:11:58 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- reosarevok: tat stuff you liked at my place was http://chiptuneswin.com/ (it's pretty cool in that you can chose to pay as much or as little as you want.)
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- 11:22:40 [CatCat]
- derwin: I'm sorry about that, I don't really see why
- 11:22:47 [CatCat]
- I seealso that you're doing good work :/
- 11:24:53 [shisma]
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- 11:24:58 [shisma]
- hi
- 11:25:08 [shisma]
- question: this song http://musicbrainz.org/work/c636345c-8717-3ccb-ba88-f154c430cdda
- 11:25:16 [shisma]
- has 'instrumental recordings'
- 11:25:42 [shisma]
- shouldn't there be a seperated work which isn't a 'song'?
- 11:25:48 [reosarevok]
- :D
- 11:26:04 [reosarevok]
- First question: do you happen to be French? :)
- 11:26:33 [shisma]
- I am not
- 11:26:54 [reosarevok]
- Because that separation I've seen made mostly by French and folk music fans
- 11:27:11 [reosarevok]
- To most other people, instrumentals are also songs nowadays
- 11:27:27 [reosarevok]
- But yeah, it is not an unreasonable question
- 11:27:32 [shisma]
- oh, I wouldn't like to separate it
- 11:27:58 [shisma]
- if there is an instrumental recording somewhere its still the same work for me
- 11:28:15 [reosarevok]
- Anyway, the work is a song in this case (with lyrics) and someone recorded the tune (without lyrics)
- 11:28:24 [shisma]
- but it seems to be common sense
- 11:28:28 [shisma]
- here
- 11:28:34 [reosarevok]
- So I think it's safe to call the work a song, even if the recording is not
- 11:28:42 [shisma]
- cool
- 11:28:52 [shisma]
- so i suggest merge the works?
- 11:29:17 [reosarevok]
- Hmm?
- 11:29:20 [reosarevok]
- http://musicbrainz.org/work/c636345c-8717-3ccb-ba88-f154c430cdda is all one work
- 11:29:26 [reosarevok]
- Which other work you want to merge? :)
- 11:29:37 [shisma]
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/eb4f9fff-3031-4fd2-a86d-d5ed6710abef
- 11:29:43 [shisma]
- no wair
- 11:29:48 [shisma]
- http://musicbrainz.org/work/fd4a46a4-bf85-3e0b-a317-85d4a3ced10e
- 11:29:52 [shisma]
- *wait
- 11:29:55 [shisma]
- this is the work
- 11:30:30 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 11:30:35 [reosarevok]
- I see it has the lyricist as composer too :)
- 11:30:52 [reosarevok]
- So, yeah, I'd merge them I guess
- 11:30:52 [shisma]
- yes. which is funny ^^
- 11:31:02 [reosarevok]
- (and change that lyricist to be a lyricist)
- 11:31:55 [shisma]
- should be corrected on merge
- 11:32:52 [Freso]
- reosarevok shisma: I've actually considered advocating for "Tune/melody/whateever -> {Jig, Reel, Polka, Schottish, Waltz, Hornpipe, Sønderhoning, Polska, ...}"
- 11:32:58 [shisma]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19326797
- 11:33:09 [reosarevok]
- Freso: as I said, French and folk music fans ;)
- 11:33:09 [Freso]
- * Freso is a folkie and very much objects to tunes being "songs" :)
- 11:33:25 [Freso]
- I know.
- 11:34:00 [reosarevok]
- I'm not against marking those separately (although I would still be against adding a new work just because someone performs a song without its lyrics)
- 11:34:28 [Freso]
- However, MusicBrinz isn't made to "cater" to "most people". It's made to cater to correct, proper music metadata.
- 11:34:33 [Freso]
- *-Brainz
- 11:34:44 [Freso]
- And proper data for a tune isn't saying it's a song.
- 11:35:02 [Freso]
- reosarevok: I agree with that.
- 11:36:06 [reosarevok]
- We do need a better work type list
- 11:36:08 [Freso]
- reosarevok: For the purposes of "modern" music, the tune/beat of a song is usually connected with the song to begin with and released with the song at first.
- 11:36:26 [reosarevok]
- But for that we also need a better UI for selecting types
- 11:36:35 [reosarevok]
- What we have now is already a pain
- 11:36:38 [drsaunde]
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- 11:36:42 [Freso]
- (Though even then, hip hop beats and instrumental pop is still being released on their own with no lyrics.)
- 11:36:49 [Freso]
- Yeah.
- 11:36:56 [Freso]
- S, S, S, S, S, Tab.
- 11:37:05 [reosarevok]
- heh, yeah
- 11:37:29 [reosarevok]
- And, my point was that instrumental pop is probably still called "songs" by the artists themselves
- 11:37:40 [reosarevok]
- (although yeah, they really aren't)
- 11:38:04 [reosarevok]
- (but I wouldn't be surprised if someone came like "artist intent, he speaks of his new songs!")
- 11:38:11 [Freso]
- reosarevok: Most hip hop producers don't call them songs. They call them "beats". :D
- 11:38:27 [reosarevok]
- Sure
- 11:38:49 [reosarevok]
- That's what I call them too :p
- 11:38:56 [reosarevok]
- I said pop, not hip hop
- 11:39:15 [reosarevok]
- (and given how often beats are reused, having works for them wouldn't be too bad an idea)
- 11:39:21 [noobie]
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- 11:39:30 [reosarevok]
- (even if they're originally released as part of a song)
- 11:39:40 [reosarevok]
- (is a rap track a song if it's rapped and not sung?)
- 11:42:03 [omgyja]
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- 11:45:54 [Freso]
- That
- 11:46:12 [Freso]
- 's what "most people" would call it, including artists (in my experience). So yes.
- 11:50:51 [shisma]
- actually someone else did the same on another song of the record http://musicbrainz.org/work/7816e7a4-8ff8-3f8a-86e1-0af2a7c09ee4
- 11:52:59 [jmv__]
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- 11:53:42 [omgyja]
- im looking for scanner software thats will help me scan my collection. Any advices ? Autocrop, straighten. If possible free. Thanks
- 11:56:35 [Freso]
- omgyja: Per extensive discussion yesterday, I think I can say that you want to edit your images (for straightening, cropping, etc.) after you've scanned the image(s).
- 11:57:02 [Freso]
- omgyja: For scanning software... what platform/OS are you on?
- 11:57:06 [omgyja]
- win
- 11:59:04 [omgyja]
- Freso: im scanning now with Canon MP Navigator EX and all edits like srtaighten and crop i do in ScanTailor. But problem its book based. When i do new cover i must set every value again :(
- 11:59:49 [Freso]
- I'd guess that Photoshop would be the best bet. :)
- 12:00:02 [Freso]
- I'm on Linux, so I'm resorting to The GIMP.
- 12:00:28 [Freso]
- If you're up for the different UI (some love it, some hate it), you could try it.
- 12:01:40 [Freso]
- It has most features you'd reasonably want from PS, AFAIK, although they may named differently. But unless you're a pro-GFX guy with a PS certification and you're willing to poke around enough, it should do.
- 12:01:54 [Freso]
- And now I'm just rambling on again. Somebody stop me!
- 12:02:05 [omgyja]
- ive portable version of gimp, but UI is completly ... uhm different than i know from PS :)
- 12:02:21 [MJ]
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- 12:02:26 [reosarevok]
- Quite a polite way of saying it, yes :p
- 12:02:40 [omgyja]
- i cant find scan from twain
- 12:05:12 [omgyja]
- heureka !
- 12:21:40 [drsaunde]
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- 13:07:49 [portik]
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- 13:41:55 [Mineo]
- hm, is there any reason why the blog section of mb.org doesn't contain links to the two latest articles? I'd expect at least the announcement of downtime to appear there
- 13:46:07 [warp]
- Mineo: I think that's a known bug, but I cannot find the ticket for it. Perhaps it hasn't been properly supported.
- 13:46:11 [warp]
- Mineo: ocharles knows more.
- 13:46:21 [warp]
- s/supported/reported/
- 13:49:43 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 13:51:46 [ocharles]
- it's just the cache
- 13:56:08 [Mineo]
- ah, ok. how long does it cache the entries?:)
- 13:56:25 [warp]
- ocharles: postponing the schema release was posted quite some time ago, we should expire the cache sooner if we cannot correctly trigger a cache flush.
- 13:56:45 [ocharles]
- that or just general lower the ttl
- 14:00:32 [KRSCuan]
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- 14:01:40 [KRSCuan]
- http://musicbrainz.org/release/5fbfda44-b711-494d-b1a7-737a6add2a95
- 14:01:50 [KRSCuan]
- Warning: You have used the Various Artists special purpose artist on:
- 14:01:52 [KRSCuan]
- Disc 1, tracks 1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 28, 32, 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 40, 41, 44, 47, 47, 48, 52, 53, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 64, 67, 69, 70, 71, 75, 78, 80, 84, 85, 86, 88, 91, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100 >:|
- 14:06:45 [murk]
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- 14:09:04 [warp]
- why would that leave the recordings?
- 14:09:11 [warp]
- (if so, that's a bug)
- 14:09:25 [KRSCuan]
- Yep, known bug.
- 14:09:45 [KRSCuan]
- If a release add gets voted down, the recordings don't get removed.
- 14:09:58 [warp]
- :S
- 14:10:01 [warp]
- that's pretty bad.
- 14:12:11 [KRSCuan]
- Hmm, one of the tickets I found was closed, but the problem seems to persist.
- 14:12:22 [KRSCuan]
- Maybe only in some cases.
- 14:19:36 [KRSCuan]
- http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2529 was the original ticket, but http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-5035 is similar to the old one.
- 14:33:00 [bitmap]
- Freso: I tried //*musicbrainz before, but it doesn't work in chromium (even though their docs give it as an example…). //*.musicbrainz seems to work though, so I'll replace it with that (+ //musicbrainz)
- 14:33:38 [Freso]
- bitmap: :)
- 14:34:00 [Freso]
- bitmap: You could also see if the Chromium devs have fixed it since your testing.
- 14:34:22 [bitmap]
- I tried it again just now :)
- 14:34:33 [bitmap]
- it says "Invalid script header" :/
- 14:35:48 [Freso]
- Aw.
- 14:43:56 [CallerNo6]
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- 15:35:50 [CallerNo6]
- If a song is made by overlaying parts of other songs like a mashup, but is performed (rather than using pre-recorded parts), what is that called? "Medley" seems wrong.
- 15:36:31 [CallerNo6]
- I don't mean "do we have an AR for that?" I'm just wondering if there's a word for it.
- 15:37:31 [kovacsur]
- sounds like a medley to me.
- 15:38:04 [kepstin-laptop]
- kind of like a medley, yeah.
- 15:38:28 [kepstin-laptop]
- I'd say you'd probably want to make a new work, and link it as a 'later version of...' the two original works.
- 15:39:30 [CallerNo6]
- kepstin-laptop: yes, I agree. I was just wondering if there was a proper term for this technique. "Pastiche" maybe, but that sounds ye olde fashioned.
- 15:41:08 [CallerNo6]
- When I hear "medley" I think of one song transitioning into another, but not overlayed.
- 15:42:52 [Freso]
- CallerNo6: Yeah, medley would be the one to use. :|
- 15:43:17 [Freso]
- CallerNo6: I also think "medley" is wrong for "sets" in trad. music, but it's the best we have as of right now.
- 15:45:29 [shisma]
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- 15:49:14 [CallerNo6]
- Unsatisfying. I want there to be a cool word for it, something out of a paul. d. miller manifesto.
- 15:49:22 [CallerNo6]
- :-)
- 15:49:55 [Lomaxx]
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- 15:52:41 [Lomaxx]
- Understanding question about discIDs and tracktimes: Sometimes a release has several discID. IMHO this often is only because someone who didn't know or care about a different release, quickly applied the discID of his CD to an existing release, just to quickly assign the tracklist and be able to tag the tracks. ...
- 15:53:35 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: the actual reason is slightly more complicated
- 15:53:51 [Lomaxx]
- I am currently trying to set the tracktimes of the releases I am submitting according to the discIDs, but if the unique discID is assigned to two releases at once, then I am changing the tracklist of both releases, which I do not want.
- 15:53:51 [ruaok]
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- 15:53:52 [ruaok]
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- 15:54:07 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: before our current schema, multiple versions of a release would be combined into a single "release" with multiple "release events"
- 15:54:34 [kepstin-laptop]
- when each release event was split into a separate release in ngs, nobody knew which disc id corresponded to which release, so they had to copy to all of them
- 15:54:56 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: the bug you're hitting right now with the shared tracklists is known and annoying :/
- 15:55:17 [Lomaxx]
- kepstin-laptop, So is it legit/welcome to remove a discID from a release having multiple discIDs, as long as I submitted a new release that got that discID assigned to?
- 15:55:49 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: probably nobody will object; but there's usually no way to know for sure which disc id corresponds to which release(s)
- 15:56:02 [kepstin-laptop]
- how do you know that the other release *didn't* have that id?
- 15:56:29 [Lomaxx]
- kepstin-laptop, because the times differ? I wonder if that is proof enough, but I am not sure.
- 15:56:30 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: I'd say yes; https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19322667 :p
- 15:57:03 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Look through the edits. See who added the DiscID in the first place.
- 15:57:12 [kepstin-laptop]
- but yes; go ahead. in the worst case they're easy to re-add.
- 15:57:21 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Was it added by the same editor that added the album/release in the first place?
- 15:58:00 [Lomaxx]
- alright, thanks for the clues and comment to both of you :)
- 15:58:13 [Freso]
- Did the editor who added the DiscID add any other edits or edit notes related to the release that might relevant?
- 15:58:23 [Freso]
- You're welcome.
- 15:59:13 [Lomaxx]
- hm, so i need 28 days at best to change the times. 14 to remove the discIDs and then 14 again to apply the times to my submitted release. well not that much of a problem.
- 16:00:43 [Freso]
- At best, you'd need 2 hours.
- 16:01:18 [kepstin-laptop]
- an autoeditor can do it in 1 hour, but that's the limit :/
- 16:01:22 [Freso]
- One hour: remove DiscID, get 3 votes; 2nd hour: removal applied, apply times, get 3 votes
- 16:02:02 [Freso]
- Well, technically ~60 minutes could probably do it, if you'd remove DiscID and get 3 votes *just* before ModBot makes it to the edit.
- 16:02:46 [Freso]
- kepstin-laptop: In the above scenario, an AE could do it in a few minutes. Just time it right. :p
- 16:03:18 [kepstin-laptop]
- Freso: waiting until modbot is about to run averages 30 minutes :)
- 16:03:41 [Freso]
- Just, but we're not talking average, we're talking best case. :p
- 16:03:47 [Freso]
- *best case scenario
- 16:03:50 [kepstin-laptop]
- heh
- 16:03:54 [Freso]
- *Yes
- 16:03:56 [Lomaxx]
- oh, more confusion: http://musicbrainz.org/cdtoc/60SNIR3LzYNmSkPLc4.Zgnq.og4-/set-durations?tracklist=1312556 I wanted to do change tracktimes, but it tells me that these two releases use the tracklist, though the discID differs. How can that be?
- 16:03:58 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. my laptop's 3 key is unhappy.
- 16:04:18 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: known issue with the silly tracklist automerging stuff
- 16:04:41 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: the workaround is to make a trivial edit to split the tracklists, set the tracktimes, then undo the trivial edit
- 16:04:48 [kepstin-laptop]
- waiting for application between each step
- 16:04:48 [Freso]
- Tracklists/mediums ought to be their own entities...
- 16:05:15 [kepstin-laptop]
- Freso: or at least act like separate entities. this stupid weird automerging stuff sucks.
- 16:05:57 [kepstin-laptop]
- Lomaxx: as an autoeditor, I can do that track time edit for you in a couple of minutes.
- 16:06:08 [kepstin-laptop]
- if you say which release you want it on?
- 16:07:01 [Lomaxx]
- kepstin-laptop, no sweat. I got quite a couple of these and I am just a bit picky. Most of them only differ by one second for a single track of the cd. So I don't want to bother you with that.
- 16:07:47 [Lomaxx]
- Thanks for the offer though.
- 16:11:03 [Freso]
- I wish salo.rock would add recordings and release groups to his merge search. :|
- 16:12:51 [Lomaxx]
- Would be nice to have the times automatically when assigning a discID and there is no other discID assigned. Because I often submit "various artist"-cds by deleting the the empty tracklist that is bound to the discID and instead "add a disc" (from freeDB) and submit the discID afterwards again.
- 16:13:01 [Lomaxx]
- automatically applied*
- 16:15:36 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: That will leave a ton of unassociated recordings in the DB though. :|
- 16:17:19 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, aren't recording created after switching from the "tracklist"-section to the "recordings"-section while submitting a cd?
- 16:17:48 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Oh, when submitting, sure.
- 16:17:54 [Lomaxx]
- ok
- 16:30:32 [derwin]
- CatCat: I think it's semi-reasonable to critique aspects of my editing, it's just a bit unusual for the message to be so strongly "no" without glaring problems with my editing? hard to know where to improve.. ?
- 16:30:55 [derwin]
- < jacobbrett> Sure, and I really don't know what major label release schedules look like, but I assume Friday,
- 16:30:58 [derwin]
- historically, has been significant, else they wouldn't have switched to it?
- 16:31:01 [derwin]
- tuesdays is the day in general.
- 16:32:10 [derwin]
- (at least in the USA)
- 16:45:06 [Freso]
- derwin: It wasn't a US release. :)
- 16:45:21 [derwin]
- Freso: yeah, I saw it's german, way back there, heh.
- 16:46:37 [Freso]
- derwin: People do explain why they're voting no though; http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-automods/2012-October/thread.html
- 16:46:57 [Freso]
- At least three people have so far done so.
- 16:47:11 [KRSCuan]
- derwin: Apart from what I said about putting credits into annotations, there's probably not that much wrong with your edits.
- 16:47:30 [KRSCuan]
- But there's a difference between being a good editor and being a good auto-editor.
- 16:47:50 [Freso]
- derwin: Also, your edits may not be wrong per se, but one of the points raised is the lack of versatility in your edits so far.
- 16:48:03 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: I didn't see your note on that.. I put credits into annotations because they are there at import time. I could just omit them?
- 16:48:28 [Freso]
- derwin: You should leave them in, but remove them as your replace the annotation notes with ARs. :)
- 16:48:30 [derwin]
- but yes, the edits I make are generally music that : 1) I listen to 2) isn't in MB already 3) but is in discogs
- 16:48:34 [Freso]
- *as you
- 16:48:45 [KRSCuan]
- derwin: Look at http://musicbrainz.org/release/91fbe996-55f1-40ea-bd61-6cd89f30d9b6 for example.
- 16:48:54 [derwin]
- Freso: that's more or less why I put them there, but I don't actually go back and convert them.. but someone could..
- 16:49:31 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: what about that example, in speciic?
- 16:49:33 [derwin]
- *specific
- 16:49:46 [KRSCuan]
- Producer – Erik Roos, Larry Tee; Written-By – Daphne Gomez-Mena, Debbie Attias, Larry Tee, Michael Pedraza*
- 16:49:46 [Freso]
- derwin: Which is why they're voting no. :) One of the reasons people votes for me being an auto-editor way back, was because I was striving towards fully AR'ing releases I was adding.
- 16:49:47 [KRSCuan]
- That stuff should be entered as relationships.
- 16:50:09 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: right, I know, but there is no way to enter those relationships while adding the release.
- 16:50:16 [KRSCuan]
- 4 panel digipak cover. ← Digipak belongs to the packaging field.
- 16:50:19 [Freso]
- derwin: Not that this is a requirement, of course, but it does subject you to a wider variety of edits and more editing decisions you need to make.
- 16:50:28 [KRSCuan]
- Can be added to the annotation too.
- 16:50:43 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: so I can either enter most of the stuff that needs entering as I import, and hope the rest of the stuff gets added eventually
- 16:50:46 [kepstin-laptop]
- derwin: you can't do them from in the release editor, but you can certainly add them as soon as you've submitted the release add edit.
- 16:51:26 [yoasif_work]
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- 16:51:31 [derwin]
- kepstin-laptop: right. and it's fair as a critique that I do not do that. but essentially, like all the remix ARs I don't edit, I figure those are for either ppl who like adding ARs and/or ppl who write bots to do so
- 16:51:49 [Freso]
- (E.g., is this "insturmnet" really "instrumnet" or "insturment"? Do I go for their parent instrument, or research to figure out which particular one it was - and/or make a motion to have it included in the instrument tree?)
- 16:51:51 [derwin]
- I *could* take the time to 100% every release, but I've been tending to 85% them instead, and have more of them.
- 16:52:26 [derwin]
- if it's preferred that I 100%, I *can* do that, but it will dramatically reduce the number of new labels, artists, etc I add.. and I've been viewing that as a goal along with my practical tagging..
- 16:52:27 [KRSCuan]
- And auto-editors are expected to strive for those 100%. ;)
- 16:52:33 [KRSCuan]
- Or maybe 95%.
- 16:52:43 [derwin]
- ok, well I do in general *strive* for that as a goal, and appreciate it
- 16:52:54 [derwin]
- but not necessarily on initial import?
- 16:53:03 [kepstin-laptop]
- if you're just adding things, but not editing and improving things already there, then you don't really get much benefit from being an autoeditor, imo.
- 16:53:21 [kepstin-laptop]
- i suppose it does remove your adds from the requires-voting queue
- 16:54:30 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop heads out.
- 16:55:36 [derwin]
- kepstin-laptop: the major interest I have in auto-editing is a specific case. basically if I miss that I have made a mistake while importing, it takes over a week for my corrections to take.
- 16:55:59 [derwin]
- I can just use beets import -L to re-tag eventually, and that works fine
- 16:56:17 [KRSCuan]
- Don't make mistakes in the first place. :)
- 16:56:23 [derwin]
- but it seems odd when I : 1) know there's a problem 2) know the solution 3) have to wait a week 4) when nobody cares to vote on it
- 16:56:36 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: heh, 9/10 times the mistake in this case is not mine, it's the person entering into discogs.
- 16:56:57 [KRSCuan]
- Well, that could be a feature request – make it easier for editors to correct their edits while they are still in queue.
- 16:57:11 [KRSCuan]
- But that would need someone to implement that.
- 16:57:13 [derwin]
- fwiw, if I could do remixer in the release editor
- 16:57:17 [KRSCuan]
- And it could mess with voting.
- 16:57:20 [derwin]
- I would take the time to do it, because I care about it
- 16:58:07 [KRSCuan]
- There's a new relationship editor that will make adding relationships to releases much easier.
- 16:58:30 [KRSCuan]
- It's already on beta.musicbrainz.org and will probably be in the next server release.
- 16:58:36 [derwin]
- but ok, this is reasonable feedback. I am relatively unlikely to stop doing either the genre or style of import that I do (in terms of 99% coming via discogs or beatport importer) but I can make an effort to bump up my initial quality..
- 16:59:01 [derwin]
- KRSCuan: I feel like there's some sort of.. boundary.. here..
- 16:59:09 [derwin]
- I wonder how ppl think about it. Basically it goes like..
- 16:59:16 [derwin]
- I am editing because I am tagging
- 16:59:26 [KRSCuan]
- Dinnertime, bbl
- 16:59:29 [derwin]
- are most editors editing because they are tagging?
- 17:00:01 [derwin]
- I am a pretty obsessive person about music metadata, but other than as, like, a hobby
- 17:00:09 [derwin]
- it's hard for me to understand editing without tagging?
- 17:01:10 [Freso]
- derwin: Some people are editing because they're tagging.
- 17:01:26 [Freso]
- derwin: Some people are editing because they're "archiving" the data.
- 17:01:55 [Freso]
- derwin: Some people are editing because they need the data to be available for other services (BBC, MXM, Spotify, ...).
- 17:02:22 [voiceinsideyou]
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- 17:02:28 [yoasif_work]
- wait, my inputs are being used by evil commercial companies? ;)
- 17:02:33 [Freso]
- derwin: Other people are likely doing it for entirely different reasons.
- 17:02:47 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: All MB data is free; yes.
- 17:03:33 [yoasif_work]
- thats gotta be interesting on their end
- 17:03:36 [yoasif_work]
- like herding cats
- 17:03:42 [mat_]
- can someone log on iswcnet or is it only broken for me ?
- 17:03:51 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Database
- 17:03:58 [Freso]
- Note the licensing data.
- 17:04:50 [yoasif_work]
- ah PD
- 17:04:55 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Also http://metabrainz.org/doc/Customers for those who pay for access to MB data and other people we know use it.
- 17:05:20 [derwin]
- I just don't really understand archiving the data without doing anything with it
- 17:05:33 [derwin]
- is part of it.. I'm a DBA, and if you store data you want to query it in my mind :)
- 17:05:37 [Freso]
- (Though, we know about more than the one non-paying user, but for some reasons isn't listing them.)
- 17:05:45 [yoasif_work]
- yeah
- 17:05:49 [yoasif_work]
- i need a mb t shirt
- 17:05:59 [Freso]
- DBA?
- 17:06:06 [yoasif_work]
- someone needs to nominate me for autoeditor though :P
- 17:06:08 [derwin]
- but yeah, in summary, I'll gladly improve the quality of my imports but I'm unlikely to change the type of imports they are..
- 17:06:14 [derwin]
- yoasif_work: careful what you wish for!
- 17:06:22 [derwin]
- Freso: database administrator.
- 17:06:23 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: whys that
- 17:06:30 [Freso]
- derwin: Ah. Well, like I said, most of the time I'd do my best to get as close to 100% ARs etc.
- 17:07:06 [Freso]
- derwin: I'd only be able to use at most 70-80% of that data in the form of tags and tags known by my used media players.
- 17:07:31 [voiceinsideyou1]
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- 17:07:34 [derwin]
- yoasif_work: http://musicbrainz.org/election/237
- 17:07:36 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: that just means that we need to pressure media player devs to improve the usage of the available data
- 17:07:37 [Freso]
- derwin: The remaining 20-30% is purely for knowing the data is now available, even if I may never use it myself.
- 17:08:03 [derwin]
- although great feedback on my edits
- 17:08:06 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: are there comments there or something that i can't see?
- 17:08:07 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: The data needs to be made available first though. Which means more people need to strive for those 100%. :)
- 17:08:08 [yoasif_work]
- :P
- 17:08:14 [derwin]
- for example some cases Guess Case doesn't work on
- 17:08:22 [derwin]
- yoasif_work: no, mostly the 3/21 Y/N ratio :)
- 17:08:54 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: im better than this guy ;)
- 17:08:56 [derwin]
- Freso: I guess I'm viewing going from 0% (no release) to 85%-with-all-the-entities-to-improve as really significant, versus the 85-100% data cleanliness?
- 17:09:09 [derwin]
- yoasif_work: hehe, he thought he was better too!
- 17:09:16 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Comments on AE elections generally go to the automods list; http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-automods/2012-October/thread.html
- 17:09:58 [Freso]
- derwin: I haven't voted no to your becoming an AE. Mind that. :)
- 17:10:02 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: thoughts on my edits? :)
- 17:10:11 [derwin]
- yoasif_work: url me?
- 17:10:16 [kepstin-laptop]
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- 17:10:29 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: http://musicbrainz.org/user/yoasif/edits
- 17:10:30 [derwin]
- Freso: aww. actually I am mostly encouraged by being voted down.
- 17:10:48 [derwin]
- Freso: even if I would have appreciated understanding how likely that was before the slightly embarassing experience?
- 17:11:06 [derwin]
- but many communities are so desperate for participants that they lower standards, and I'm glad that's not happening :)
- 17:11:13 [Freso]
- derwin: I do agree that getting to 70-80 percent is good, and def. infinitely better than 0% - but if we want to push media players to use the data of the last ~25%, it needs to be available too.
- 17:11:18 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: yeah i like that too
- 17:12:29 [yoasif_work]
- bah, my edits before 2012 dont show up
- 17:12:41 [yoasif_work]
- oh wait, i have to keep clicking last
- 17:12:47 [shisma]
- is there a way to split a work?
- 17:13:41 [Freso]
- shisma: No. :/
- 17:13:50 [kepstin-laptop]
- derwin: I suspect that most of the autoeditors don't mostly import from discogs; in fact most of the stuff I do isn't on discogs at all. So this sort of automatic bot stuff doesn't happen much.
- 17:14:29 [shisma]
- can I put a feature request somewhere? ^^
- 17:14:33 [Freso]
- shisma: I usually rename/repurpose the work to be the first one not already existing in the db, and then add the remaining works manually.
- 17:15:05 [shisma]
- or maybe clone an existing work
- 17:15:07 [derwin]
- kepstin-laptop: but yes, I think because I am into electronic music and discogs is what it is, I am an unusual editor in that way. 99% of things I want to import are in discogs or on beatport, because I'm importing to dj with
- 17:15:34 [shisma]
- just in ordner to keep the relations
- 17:18:06 [yoasif_work]
- derwin: feedback? :P
- 17:18:07 [Freso]
- derwin: One of my adds from a while back: https://musicbrainz.org/release/ef619505-7f4e-443b-8de5-e51817f519b9
- 17:18:44 [Freso]
- derwin: Don't rely on bots.
- 17:19:15 [shisma]
- or is it possible to copy and paste relationships?
- 17:19:19 [Freso]
- Ugh.
- 17:19:39 [Freso]
- And obviously an add from before [traditional] was merged into [unknown]. D:
- 17:19:49 [Freso]
- Silly, silly people who did that. -.-
- 17:19:53 [derwin]
- Freso: philosophically, it's difficult for me to want to spend time doing things I don't "have" to (because they could be done in an automated fashion), I view it as coming at the expense of things only I can do.
- 17:20:06 [Mineo]
- dear reoafk, thanks for nominating listmycds, voting hasn't been fun with him opening so many good edits :-)
- 17:20:12 [kepstin-laptop]
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- 17:21:16 [derwin]
- anyway, I have to get to work. but I will strive to improve the quality of my edits, I will make a little list of things I don't currently do, and determine my approach to getting those done
- 17:21:59 [derwin]
- I really am hoping to provide the best balance of time spent vs. value/quality, and appreciate all feedback :D
- 17:22:24 [Freso]
- derwin: I usually just open a new tab. Since I already thave the Discogs/whatever site open and am going to copy the address anyway in my edit note, it's a matter of seconds for copying the address into the Add URL rel. page in addition to the edit note.
- 17:23:04 [derwin]
- Freso: I relate the release 100% of the time
- 17:23:13 [derwin]
- Freso: and in fact submitted a bug on that interface
- 17:23:24 [derwin]
- which was fixed, to speed me up :)
- 17:24:35 [derwin]
- ok, really afk
- 17:24:47 [yoasif_work]
- i look forward to bots scanning cover art to add data
- 17:24:48 [yoasif_work]
- :P
- 17:24:49 [derwin]
- I think I will put a little note on my editor bio
- 17:25:10 [kepstin-laptop]
- man, my irc client really sucks at reconnecting when I switch wireless networks :/
- 17:25:12 [derwin]
- explaining why most of my edits are discogs imports, at least
- 17:26:38 [hawke_2]
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- 17:27:28 [Freso]
- adding in the edits yourself.
- 17:28:00 [yoasif_work]
- url relationships are basically instantaneous anywya
- 17:28:05 [yoasif_work]
- as far as normal users go
- 17:28:06 [yoasif_work]
- ime
- 17:28:35 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: They're usable right away, yes, but they're not added. :)
- 17:29:03 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Plus, we have far more people opening edits than we have people closing them.
- 17:29:30 [Mineo]
- the only one closing edits being ModBot :)
- 17:29:55 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Every time an auto-editor has to approve an add URL edit (including verifying the URL matches up properly), it takes time away from voting on other edits.
- 17:30:11 [Freso]
- Mineo: I close edits too.
- 17:30:21 [Freso]
- ;)
- 17:30:32 [Freso]
- * Freso has teh p0wer!!
- 17:30:35 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: isnt that done based on votes? i guess i dont really understand why autoeditors would put themselves out
- 17:31:12 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Auto-editors can "approve" edits they would've been able to enter as auto-edits.
- 17:31:21 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Which bypasses the whole voting system.
- 17:31:52 [Freso]
- I believe I already approved a few of your edits. :)
- 17:32:00 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: in that case, work through my open edit queue :P
- 17:34:52 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19330985
- 17:35:23 [shisma]
- bye!
- 17:35:40 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: thanks :)
- 17:40:14 [hawke_2]
- Really? Really? John Williams the guitarist performed on a soundtrack? I wonder how many sites will get it right/wrong?
- 17:40:17 [Freso]
- https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19326905 :D
- 17:40:32 [Freso]
- Haha.
- 17:40:52 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: :P
- 17:41:23 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: It would nice to let us (editors voting on your edits) know what info you base your recording merges on.
- 17:42:03 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Stating "merge recordings" doesn't add a lot of information when the edit type is "Merge recordings".
- 17:42:36 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: yeah... ill need to be better at that... i was just going after identical releases
- 17:42:47 [Freso]
- Just saying "Same track name, artist name, track length" is good. Anything more, better. :)
- 17:43:24 [ruaok]
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- 17:43:52 [hawke_2]
- ...but please check AcoustIDs too. :-p
- 17:44:08 [Freso]
- E.g., if they share ISRCs, AcoustIDs, PUIDs, appear on releases from the same release group, if they're all on standard, mass produced compilations (Absolute Music, etc. - you know what I mean), etc.
- 17:44:17 [Freso]
- hawke_2: ^ :)
- 17:45:15 [Freso]
- E.g, https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19322002 - there's a 4th recording with the same ISRC I didn't add to the merge, as that one also has another ISRC.
- 17:45:51 [Freso]
- As I didn't have time to fully investigate (other than checking the other ISRC quickly), I decided to err on the side of safety and delay the merging of that for another time.
- 17:46:00 [Freso]
- Most likely, that recording's a mess anyway... -.-
- 17:46:14 [yoasif_work]
- haha
- 17:56:14 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Anyway. Edits won't work from T-3 minutes
- 17:56:30 [Freso]
- yoasif_work: Just if you have anything important you need to add right away.
- 17:57:09 [yoasif_work]
- Freso: yeah no big deal... im probably heading out to lunch soon
- 18:01:17 [CatBuss]
- CatBuss has joined #musicbrainz
- 18:02:56 [CatBuss]
- heh, i am on norwegian evita
- 18:03:06 [CallerNo6]
- fwiw, I don't edit for tagging purposes. I guess I fall into the archivist category.
- 18:08:58 [Lomaxx]
- uhm, maybe I am totally confused now, but I'll dare to ask: I was updating the flac-tags of a release with picard and picard shows me a difference for all tracks. It wants to at a date (1987). But when looking at the release through my browser then I can see no release-date for that release, nor can i see that it was added in the editing-history: http://musicbrainz.org/release/6c50acc7-51f2-4eb2-b00a-11487b3374a0
- 18:09:12 [Lomaxx]
- And i already checked that i selected the right release-version.
- 18:09:54 [dubwai]
- dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
- 18:10:42 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: What is the name of the field?
- 18:11:01 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Original release date?
- 18:11:08 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/69d673d5-3484-3e2d-92d9-7663e0a0e150
- 18:11:36 [Lomaxx]
- yes it is. So does it take that from the other release?
- 18:11:44 [Lomaxx]
- Freso
- 18:11:59 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Yep.
- 18:12:46 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, So as long as I do not enter a new release date, then it takes one from the another release of the same release-group?
- 18:13:27 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: No and yes.
- 18:14:09 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: The "original release date" will _always_ be the earliest date in the release's release group.
- 18:14:35 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: So unless you set your current release earlier than the earliest there, it will still use that.
- 18:14:49 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Note that the tag for "Release date" is a different one.
- 18:15:03 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: And the two can be different.
- 18:15:04 [Lomaxx]
- I see. Then I got it ... i think. =)
- 18:15:24 [Freso]
- :)
- 18:24:51 [ianmcorvidae]
- warning for everyone: the site will probably be readonly for a chunk here; we're slowly moving things to our backup DB server so we can do the schema change :)
- 18:28:39 [Lomaxx]
- picard's cluster-mechanism could use some improvement. It's putting releases together that have the same name (like 'Greatest Hits'), but reside in different directories..
- 18:40:09 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Once the files are loaded into Picard, it doesn't care about filenames or directories.
- 18:40:36 [Freso]
- Which I'm pretty sure is how it's meant to be. I wouldn't want it any different anyway. :)
- 18:41:10 [derwin]
- hrm, I just got a rather large perl stacktrace
- 18:41:15 [derwin]
- when trying to remove cover art
- 18:41:34 [uk]
- derwin: site is read-only
- 18:41:42 [derwin]
- ah, that'd do it.
- 18:41:45 [derwin]
- schema release?
- 18:41:47 [derwin]
- oh, HAH
- 18:41:51 [derwin]
- * derwin reads up 3 lines.
- 18:41:58 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, so it's in general the wrong way of me while rescanning files for changes to load a directory, cluster the content, and look up stuff afterwards?
- 18:42:58 [warp]
- Lomaxx: I'd just do a couple of releases at a time, yes.
- 18:43:14 [derwin]
- freso^^
- 18:46:37 [Lomaxx]
- warp, that's a bit clumsy (not sure if it's the right word for it). You mean when i want to check a directory containing say 400 subdirectories then it's me (and not picard) who has to carefully pick out directory that do not confuse the (anti-)clustering-mechanism?
- 18:47:16 [Lomaxx]
- or i have to pick each directory one by one? not practical either.
- 18:48:23 [DremoraLV]
- DremoraLV has joined #musicbrainz
- 18:49:30 [warp]
- Lomaxx: I have a seperate folder where I drop stuff which needs tagging. I just load that into picard and tag stuff, and then move it to the correct location afterward. You can also have picard to the moving.
- 18:50:11 [Lomaxx]
- warp, I do that, but occasionally i want to retag stuff, when my changes get applied for example
- 18:50:47 [warp]
- I have seperate folders for each artist, so in that case I just open the artist folder in picard.
- 18:50:52 [Lomaxx]
- and i don't want to check each single release manually, but just let picard do the work and look out for "*"s behind the name
- 18:51:02 [Lomaxx]
- hmm
- 18:51:23 [warp]
- picard isn't really built to load your entire music collection in one go, it doesn't deal with that well.
- 18:51:52 [Lomaxx]
- well, it's doing good enought to make me expect this little flaw :o)
- 18:51:58 [warp]
- (perhaps it _should_ deal with that well, but that is going to take some effort, feel free to contribute :)
- 18:52:00 [Lomaxx]
- flaw to be gone*
- 18:52:26 [Lomaxx]
- I think if i would contribute, it would get more flaws, not less. *g*
- 18:55:45 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: If the files are already tagged, Picard should pick up the MBID.
- 18:58:28 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, hm, then i don't get why it threw together the "Greatest Hits" of Mahalia Jackson and Dave Brubeck
- 18:59:30 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Well, it wouldn't have if it'd picked up on the MBIDs instead of placing them in the middle column. :)
- 18:59:40 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: Have you set Picard to not scan on file load?
- 18:59:52 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop notes that on linux with 64bit python, picard works fairly well with around 10k files at a time.
- 18:59:54 [flamingspinach]
- Is mbz down?
- 19:00:07 [kepstin-laptop]
- flamingspinach: in process of a schema upgrade.
- 19:00:09 [flamingspinach]
- I'm getting HTTP 500s
- 19:00:10 [flamingspinach]
- oh
- 19:00:24 [warp]
- flamingspinach: it shouldn't be down, but it is read-only while the upgrade is happening.
- 19:00:49 [kepstin-laptop]
- flamingspinach: what pages are you seeing the errors on?
- 19:01:14 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, yes, i have set to not scan.
- 19:01:16 [flamingspinach]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/subscribed for example
- 19:01:31 [flamingspinach]
- huh, even http://musicbrainz.org/ is giving me HTTP 500
- 19:02:05 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. works for me, just kind of slow.
- 19:02:07 [ianmcorvidae]
- yeah, that's going to happen, just hold tight for a sec
- 19:02:10 [flamingspinach]
- oh, it's back now
- 19:06:54 [hawke_2]
- Oooh, 5 more books in the Humble eBook bundle.
- 19:08:18 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: That'd be why then. Try to scan your clusters intead of looking them up as they are.
- 19:08:25 [Freso]
- *instead
- 19:08:37 [warp]
- hawke_2: ah, and they got added to my account. nice.
- 19:09:30 [warp]
- hawke_2: all comics I guess? only PDF for the new books.
- 19:09:39 [hawke_2]
- Looks that way
- 19:09:55 [hawke_2]
- xkcd, a couple of penny arcade things..
- 19:10:11 [warp]
- 132 MB for a pdf. :)
- 19:20:03 [Lomaxx]
- Freso, I'm not sure if we mean the same thing. The flaw I am speaking about is that it already throws two directories into one cluster when pressing the cluster-button (without scanning or looking it up). When i look that cluster up afterwards it fails of course too though. And scanning always works. But I don't always want to scan as it takes much more time on my outdated computer.
- 19:21:18 [hawke_2]
- Must be really really outdated; scanning is pretty fast generally.
- 19:21:40 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: We are talking about the same thing. Just scan the cluster instead of looking it up.
- 19:22:25 [warp]
- * warp never uses scan.
- 19:22:43 [Lomaxx]
- hawke, amd athlon xp 2600+ :P
- 19:23:34 [Lomaxx]
- or hawke_2
- 19:23:55 [Freso]
- Lomaxx: hawke_n
- 19:23:57 [hawke_2]
- Lomaxx: I wouldn't think that would be all that slow
- 19:24:03 [hawke_2]
- hawke_* ;-)
- 19:24:17 [Freso]
- hawke_.
- 19:24:31 [Freso]
- * Freso is talking databases in another chat >_>
- 19:28:26 [reoafk]
- * reoafk tries to open KRSCuan's link from earlier, gets an ISE
- 19:29:11 [reoafk]
- Also, KRSCuan / warp : in case you haven't seen already, IIRC they do get removed when the release is voted down now but I think only if they have no relationships
- 19:29:11 [omgyja]
- horrible things happened with MB http://pastebin.com/LYDxFDWr
- 19:29:33 [reoafk]
- So if someone added a relationship to all recordings, you're fucked
- 19:29:36 [ianmcorvidae]
- omgyja: just a sec, mid-schema-change :)
- 19:29:49 [reoafk]
- Oh, ok :)
- 19:30:04 [warp]
- reoafk: oh. hm.
- 19:30:05 [dubwai]
- dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
- 19:30:07 [ianmcorvidae]
- we have some things that are running old code on the new schema
- 19:30:57 [omgyja]
- ouch why in web primetime ? ok ill wait, going to bath
- 19:31:22 [adhawkins]
- omgyja: Web primetime where exactly?
- 19:31:29 [adhawkins]
- Musicbrainz isn't a 'local' service.
- 19:31:48 [derwin]
- any eta on site non-read-only?
- 19:31:56 [uk]
- omgyja: Developers from America and Europe have to be awake.
- 19:32:06 [ianmcorvidae]
- derwin: one of three servers is already done, working on the others now
- 19:32:16 [omgyja]
- i think that 20-22hrs is time where most of people are browsing
- 19:32:33 [ianmcorvidae]
- omgyja: people all across the world use musicbrainz; it's 12:30 here :P
- 19:32:39 [derwin]
- Lomaxx: beets has a method of applying refreshed tags which result in path changes, is that what you're asking about?
- 19:32:46 [derwin]
- omgyja: yeah, it's 12:30 here :)
- 19:32:54 [derwin]
- I'm at work, but I want to delete some wrong cover-art
- 19:32:54 [derwin]
- lol
- 19:33:04 [ianmcorvidae]
- and yes, the timing is because we have people in california, arizona, london, and the netherlands, and all of them needed to be around to help :)
- 19:33:06 [derwin]
- probably should have [off] that one
- 19:33:09 [adhawkins]
- omgyja: Yes, but 20-22 where exactly?
- 19:33:44 [KRSCuan]
- reoafk: Which link?
- 19:33:53 [omgyja]
- ok, you beat me :) im going to bath and ill wait
- 19:33:56 [reoafk]
- KRSCuan, the release, but it was just because of the schema change
- 19:33:59 [reoafk]
- I think
- 19:34:23 [Freso]
- derwin: Why? I don't think their respective countries are any secret...
- 19:34:42 [kovacsur]
- I think he meant the part about him being at work
- 19:34:43 [reoafk]
- Freso, guess he meant the "i'm at work" bit :p
- 19:34:48 [Freso]
- Oh.
- 19:34:54 [reoafk]
- Now we've said it three times so EVERYBODY KNOWS
- 19:34:55 [Freso]
- Right.
- 19:34:57 [reoafk]
- :D
- 19:35:00 [Freso]
- :p
- 19:35:10 [derwin]
- oh, the dotcommity
- 19:35:12 [derwin]
- dotcomedy
- 19:35:18 [adhawkins]
- derwin: You at work?
- 19:35:21 [adhawkins]
- Shocking...
- 19:36:02 [kovacsur]
- Hey, at least we didn't post his real name and the name of the company he works at.
- 19:36:26 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae is also at work!
- 19:36:29 [adhawkins]
- * adhawkins googles
- 19:36:31 [ianmcorvidae]
- (obviously :P)
- 19:40:50 [ruaok]
- ok, we should be back!
- 19:42:51 [dubwai]
- dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
- 19:46:14 [dubwai]
- It's possible in picard to get standardized names of ablumartist and artist and save them to multi-value tag (lik MBIDs) to albumartistsort and artistsort for exmaple. But normal artist and albumartist must be not standardized.
- 19:46:27 [dubwai]
- I have idea to get navigation in foobar2000 like in MB site. Content metada like on cover but navigation like in site :)
- 20:10:00 [JoeLlama]
- JoeLlama has joined #musicbrainz
- 20:10:03 [JoeLlama]
- JoeLlama has joined #musicbrainz
- 20:21:09 [jcazevedo]
- jcazevedo has joined #musicbrainz
- 20:23:11 [ianmcorvidae]
- warning for everyone: we have an outstanding bug and the people who know how to fix it seem to have (reasonably) gone to bed -- if you edit/add a release that doesn't have a disambiguation comment, stick a space in the field as a workaround; we'll release a hotfix as soon as we can
- 20:56:53 [yoasif_work]
- yoasif_work has left #musicbrainz
- 21:02:07 [FoonDi]
- FoonDi has joined #musicbrainz
- 21:05:13 [FoonDi]
- Does the musicbrainz.org/search/etc. internal search utilize the musicbrainz.org/ws/2/etc. API?
- 21:05:42 [ianmcorvidae]
- both /search and /ws/2 call out to the search server
- 21:06:40 [FoonDi]
- hmm, ok - I am trying to replicate results that I see from /search in /ws/2 but can't seem to
- 21:07:09 [ianmcorvidae]
- the ws itself will only use advanced search
- 21:07:16 [ianmcorvidae]
- on /search the default is indexed
- 21:07:25 [ianmcorvidae]
- that's probably the root of your issues :)
- 21:07:54 [ianmcorvidae]
- if you select "indexed search with advanced query syntax" on /search that'll give you an accurate picture of things
- 21:09:03 [FoonDi]
- for instance, I do this search on work entities http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=hello&type=work&method=indexed and I see all the artists listed however when doing the same in /ws/2 e.g http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/work/?query=hello it will only give the writers not the singers
- 21:10:17 [FoonDi]
- ianmcorvidae: just tried that, same results - artists show up
- 21:10:28 [ianmcorvidae]
- http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/work/?query=hello&inc=artists
- 21:10:54 [ianmcorvidae]
- er, hm
- 21:11:16 [FoonDi]
- heh
- 21:11:19 [jmv__]
- jmv__ has joined #musicbrainz
- 21:11:26 [ianmcorvidae]
- * ianmcorvidae wasn't reading carefully enough :)
- 21:11:31 [ianmcorvidae]
- so, those are linked to the recordings
- 21:14:10 [FoonDi]
- what is linked to the recordings?
- 21:14:46 [ianmcorvidae]
- singers, etc.
- 21:14:58 [ianmcorvidae]
- sorry, I'm doing three things at once :)
- 21:15:04 [FoonDi]
- oh yeah
- 21:15:09 [FoonDi]
- heh, np :)
- 21:15:34 [ianmcorvidae]
- for /search we have it load recording artists after it gets the search result
- 21:15:56 [ianmcorvidae]
- you'll probably have to look up the works individually with the appropriate inc parameter incantations
- 21:16:00 [FoonDi]
- ah I was hoping that wasn't the case
- 21:20:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- <derwin> Freso: aww. actually I am mostly encouraged by being voted down.
- 21:20:08 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I'm so glad you have this attitude
- 21:20:16 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- derwin> Freso: even if I would have appreciated understanding how likely that was before the slightly embarassing experience
- 21:20:23 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- and I apologise for that, truly
- 21:20:30 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I am kinda embarrassed too
- 21:20:48 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- because of someone's wordings I thought for a second that it was because of *me* people voted on :s
- 21:20:52 [derwin]
- heh, it's actually pretty fine
- 21:21:01 [derwin]
- I am thinking I am going to put a little note on my account
- 21:21:06 [derwin]
- for anyone who might see the vote late
- 21:21:16 [derwin]
- that says something like "I edit <in_this_way>"
- 21:21:33 [derwin]
- because I think I am relatively unique, but I think my unique style is mostly pretty ok, just slightly atypical
- 21:21:37 [FoonDi]
- hmm, so a ws/2/work query which grabs the works, then a ws/2/work/MBID/?inc=recording-rels lookup for each result which will fetch all the recordings for that work and finally a ws/2/recording/MBID/?inc=artists to grab the artists for that recording, thus fetching the artists for the work
- 21:21:46 [FoonDi]
- that can't really be the way to do it can it?
- 21:23:39 [derwin]
- like, I bet if you compared my stats on for example labels and artists added as a ratio-per-edit, I bet I outperform meaningfully
- 21:23:44 [ianmcorvidae]
- you should be able to get the recording stuff on the work query
- 21:23:55 [derwin]
- because I add niche music where the artist often only has 1 or 2 releases
- 21:24:10 [ianmcorvidae]
- hm, or maybe not
- 21:24:12 [ianmcorvidae]
- meh
- 21:24:34 [derwin]
- I, rightly or wrongly, view a new artist entity as more significant than a new release entity
- 21:24:46 [derwin]
- there are fewer artists than releases, which makes an artist more "rare" :)
- 21:25:47 [KRSCuan]
- Artists: 694,429
- 21:25:49 [KRSCuan]
- Release Groups: 894,445
- 21:25:50 [KRSCuan]
- Releases: 1,079,943
- 21:25:54 [KRSCuan]
- All pretty common.
- 21:25:58 [KRSCuan]
- :p
- 21:26:55 [derwin]
- labels are pretty uncommon in comparison to artists even :)
- 21:27:14 [derwin]
- so yeah, I view the fact that I've added a lot of labels and artists as a relatively strong mark in my favor :)
- 21:27:38 [FoonDi]
- ianmcorvidae: yeah, I don't understand why /work doesn't allow any of the typical inc= subqueries... would make this very easy
- 21:27:55 [ianmcorvidae]
- it allows the typical ones when you pass an mbid, as usual
- 21:28:02 [ianmcorvidae]
- searches don't do ?inc at all
- 21:28:18 [ianmcorvidae]
- what it doesn't allow is the release-lookup-only inc parameters like recording-level-rels :/
- 21:28:45 [FoonDi]
- oh right, I keep forgetting searches don't do inc
- 21:29:44 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I actually don't disagree with the "a human doing the things only humans can do" but i also think that you should instead of relying on bots to "fill'er up" write scripts (and monitor their output obviously) to the hard work for you in respect to discos linking and such
- 21:30:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- and submit those as you
- 21:30:20 [FoonDi]
- oh well, thanks for your help, looks like I have to do it the sucky way
- 21:30:26 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- eh have a script do the hard work and then press "go"
- 21:30:29 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- idk these tings
- 21:32:24 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- anyway
- 21:32:27 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I am so sleepy
- 21:32:35 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- an crap and mess
- 21:32:39 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
- I is natta
- 21:32:56 [reosarevok]
- natta!
- 21:32:57 [ListMyCDs]
- ListMyCDs has joined #musicbrainz
- 21:38:51 [mb-chat-logger]
- New post: blog: Schema change release 2012-10-15 <http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1652>
- 21:39:59 [Freso]
- Interested parties: Have a look at https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MusicBottle
- 21:40:54 [Freso]
- And watch the page for updates to the project. :)
- 21:43:21 [ianmcorvidae]
- Freso: you could call it MusicFace -- the idea being it's the pretty front to the data (the brain[sz]) :P
- 21:43:35 [ianmcorvidae]
- or the edit system's the brains, either way :P
- 21:44:07 [Freso]
- ianmcorvidae: There's A Page For That :p
- 21:45:11 [ianmcorvidae]
- :P
- 21:45:33 [Freso]
- (Or, well, there will be once anyone suggests something.)
- 21:46:08 [reosarevok]
- WARFACE
- 21:46:17 [reosarevok]
- Sorry, too much RockPaperShotgun
- 21:46:21 [Freso]
- WarfAce?
- 21:46:38 [Freso]
- You mean Wharf?
- 21:46:39 [reosarevok]
- Carfawe
- 21:46:56 [reosarevok]
- wefraca
- 21:47:10 [Freso]
- Wet raga?
- 21:47:24 [Freso]
- Sorry, I don't hear you very clearly.
- 21:50:00 [ListMyCDs]
- I'm not currently able to add any new releases. Has anyone else some problems?
- 21:50:03 [CallerNo6]
- it's like I keep saying, linguists are nothing but trouble
- 21:50:09 [ianmcorvidae]
- ListMyCDs: hotfix in progress :)
- 21:50:16 [ListMyCDs]
- ok
- 21:50:18 [ianweller]
- Freso: hey musicbottle isn't a bad name
- 21:50:19 [ianmcorvidae]
- ListMyCDs: workaround: stick a space in the disambig comment field
- 21:50:30 [Freso]
- ianweller: I know. :)
- 21:50:34 [ianweller]
- Freso: and the .org is available!
- 21:50:36 [ianweller]
- which i assume you know as well.
- 21:50:39 [Freso]
- Uh.
- 21:50:40 [kovacsur]
- I propose MusicZombie, as it's going to consume MusicBrainz (data)
- 21:50:41 [Freso]
- >_>
- 21:50:57 [ianweller]
- and now someone is going to steal it, aren't they
- 21:51:00 [Freso]
- ianweller: I actually hadn't looked it up...
- 21:51:05 [_5moufl]
- A name for what?
- 21:51:06 [ListMyCDs]
- ianmcorvidae: thanks!
- 21:51:13 [Freso]
- They are. :( You should have [off]'d it.
- 21:51:39 [Freso]
- Because you know how all the domain squatters are sitting around monitoring #musicbrainz chatlogs. :(
- 21:53:38 [reosarevok]
- I'm sure you can do something with it anyway at some point
- 21:53:44 [ianweller]
- yeh
- 21:53:51 [reosarevok]
- In the worst case, ruaok can use it to make some cocktail page
- 21:53:59 [ianmcorvidae]
- lol
- 21:54:01 [ianweller]
- asdfljk
- 21:54:03 [_5moufl]
- musicskull
- 21:54:09 [reosarevok]
- it's cool indeed!
- 21:54:14 [ianweller]
- haha
- 21:54:25 [ianweller]
- reo stop being funny i almost got coca-cola up my nose again.
- 21:54:55 [dubwai]
- dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
- 22:05:47 [KRSCuan]
- Any idea what happened in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332484 ?
- 22:06:31 [KRSCuan]
- I only moved a few tracks and relationships to the correct artist besides this edit.
- 22:06:59 [ianmcorvidae]
- KRSCuan: may have to do with the schema change, that disambig comment was probably changed from null to the empty string, which may have triggered the conflict detection
- 22:07:42 [ianmcorvidae]
- er, except that was an autoedit, so I guess that's a real bug
- 22:09:02 [mb-chat-logger]
- New post: blog: Updating MusicBrainz slave instances for 2012-10-15 <http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1663>
- 22:09:03 [KRSCuan]
- Well, I don't really have enough info to file a ticket for this.
- 22:09:12 [derwin]
- (btw, I <3 callerno6 learning python.. his type of sensibility is much needed in the coding community)
- 22:09:13 [KRSCuan]
- Stuff that used to work suddenly doesn't work.
- 22:09:17 [derwin]
- (re: musicbottle)
- 22:09:40 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 is all talk
- 22:09:43 [djpretzel]
- djpretzel has joined #musicbrainz
- 22:09:58 [ianmcorvidae]
- KRSCuan: just link the edit and say what you did, we'll figure out what went wrong
- 22:10:37 [ianmcorvidae]
- KRSCuan: I have a theory, in any case
- 22:10:44 [reosarevok]
- CallerNo6: don't be then :p
- 22:11:57 [CallerNo6]
- easier said than... oh, nevermind
- 22:12:19 [ianmcorvidae]
- KRSCuan: hm, odd, adding things separately seems to have worked fine
- 22:12:49 [ianmcorvidae]
- oh, I guess I'm also on beta, that could matter
- 22:13:47 [ianmcorvidae]
- if beta's the reason it worked, it should be fixed as soon as our servers stop being slow and we actually get this hotfix deployed :/
- 22:25:10 [Freso]
- Btw, if you're interested in "The Bottle", join at #musicbottle
- 22:26:45 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok adds a second vapourware channel to his join-at-login list then, because bookbrainz-devel wasn't enough :p
- 22:27:51 [derwin]
- reosarevok: why is goodreads not good, have you looked into it etc?
- 22:28:23 [ianweller]
- goodreads is more social oriented than data oriented
- 22:28:28 [ianweller]
- iirc
- 22:28:38 [ianmcorvidae]
- openlibrary is more what bookbrainz is competing with
- 22:29:00 [ianmcorvidae]
- or, y'know, would be if it existed :P
- 22:29:26 [Freso]
- reosarevok: :D
- 22:31:15 [skd5aner]
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- 22:31:23 [derwin]
- " Open Library is a project of the non-profit Internet Archive " neat
- 22:35:56 [CallerNo6]
- wait, is existence going to be on the test?
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- dubwai has joined #musicbrainz
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- kovacsur has joined #musicbrainz
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- DremoraLV has joined #musicbrainz
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- JoeLlama has joined #musicbrainz
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- portik has joined #musicbrainz
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- g-ram has joined #musicbrainz
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- 23:39:55 [monxton]
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- 23:40:45 [monxton]
- hello busy room
- 23:42:29 [monxton]
- in particular ianmcorvidae
- 23:42:37 [reosarevok]
- hi monxton
- 23:42:42 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae just went for a walk
- 23:42:47 [reosarevok]
- Should be back in a while
- 23:43:23 [monxton]
- hi reo, I have a couple of edits which ISE if I try to approve them.
- 23:43:47 [monxton]
- this one: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332739
- 23:44:02 [Freso]
- monxton: Known after-update bugs.
- 23:44:08 [Freso]
- monxton: They're working on it.
- 23:44:34 [monxton]
- OK, it's not quite the same as the "comment" one
- 23:45:13 [reosarevok]
- Hmm
- 23:45:19 [reosarevok]
- ianmcorvidae ^ when you're back
- 23:46:10 [monxton]
- another different one: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332322
- 23:47:59 [derwin]
- callerno6 : We're also going to need some kind of cache, to not hit MusicBrainz (or other sites) over and over again. We're looking into MongoDB and possibly other NoSQL databases for now.
- 23:48:06 [derwin]
- if you need cassandra expertise, feel free to ask
- 23:50:52 [monxton]
- Freso, interested in your earlier remarks about work types for folk tunes
- 23:52:05 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 's ears prick up at the mention of trad works
- 23:53:09 [derwin]
- trad skinheads?
- 23:53:51 [monxton]
- CallerNo6: 11:32 yesterday