IRC log of musicbrainz on 2012-10-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

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01:09:03 [derwin]
wow
01:09:04 [derwin]
Your musical compatibility with DrMuller is LOW
01:09:20 [derwin]
he has 240k plays, I have 100k, and we have low enough intersect for that
01:10:52 [Lotheric]
hehe
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02:50:42 [derwin]
ouch, I am getting moiderized in the auto-editor voting
02:51:13 [derwin]
I do my best to follow guidelines and be reasonable.. and am very responsive to feedback.. :)
03:03:55 [Leftmost]
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03:29:08 [derwin]
http://www.bennjordan.com/blog/?p=499
03:33:50 [CallerNo6]
"inept" is what I say when I'm around people who would be offended by a different word.
03:35:03 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae just wonders if the two versions (if you can call them that) are both in MB :P
03:36:32 [CallerNo6]
"Benn Jordan & some birds"?
04:22:29 [frewsxcv]
i heard benn jordan
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07:11:54 [derwin]
23:35 * ianmcorvidae just wonders if the two versions (if you can call them that) are both in MB :P
07:11:57 [derwin]
+1
07:12:06 [derwin]
benn jordan is solid, I enjoy his artistic direction
07:17:51 [drsaunde]
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07:39:57 [jacobbrett]
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07:40:49 [jacobbrett]
Should a re-release of two albums together be considered a compilation? http://musicbrainz.org/edit/18059116
07:51:30 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release%20Group/Type#Compilation says no
07:51:41 [reosarevok]
(I'm not sure if I agree)
07:57:28 [warp]
I agree.
07:58:47 [warp]
though probably not in all cases.
08:00:20 [Wizzcat]
a case for boxset secondary type?
08:01:29 [warp]
no, we need proper support in musicbrainz for releases which solely or predominantly consist of previously released albums.
08:03:31 [Wizzcat]
sure, I was just thinking as a temporary fix
08:04:14 [Wizzcat]
though I guess if we've made do all these years then it's not really a big deal
08:06:25 [warp]
well, I guess temporary fixes usually also help with migrating the data to when we finally get the real fix.
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09:10:24 [jacobbrett]
Is a German single releasing on Friday common (in the 90s)?
09:21:32 [Freso]
jacobbrett: Isn't there a wiki page for "common" release dates?
09:26:18 [robmorrissey]
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09:35:59 [reosarevok]
bitmap, could you update http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/117663 for https? :)
09:38:44 [Innocuous]
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09:40:34 [Freso]
bitmap: Also, ..://*musicbrainz.org/... should work instead of having the three different sites all listed.
09:41:47 [Freso]
https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/128593 too, bitmap :D
09:42:05 [Freso]
reosarevok: userscripts.org is also available via HTTPS, btw. :p
09:42:36 [reosarevok]
Freso: I actually don't see the point of us using it anywhere but the login... but I clicked on a link to it :p
09:45:36 [warp]
reosarevok: https on login protects only your password. https all the time also protects your cookie.
09:47:11 [warp]
(and ofcourse prevents someone else from seeing that you're visiting the justin bieber artist page)
09:48:34 [reosarevok]
But it's just to curse at it!
09:48:35 [reosarevok]
8)
09:57:25 [Freso]
... What?
09:57:36 [Freso]
Oh.
09:57:51 [Freso]
* Freso didn't see warp's paranthetical message
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10:14:01 [jacobbrett]
Freso: Ah, you're right: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Release_Date "Germany Friday (was Monday before summer 2005)"
10:15:03 [jacobbrett]
I go to the Bieber page all the time...
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10:15:51 [Freso]
jacobbrett: Wouldn't "was Monday before summer 2005" indicate that if it was released in the 90's, it is more likely to have been released on a Monday?
10:16:15 [jacobbrett]
Freso: Indeed, though perhaps Friday was also valid back then *shrugs*.
10:16:33 [Freso]
jacobbrett: All days are always valid, aren't they? :)
10:17:54 [jacobbrett]
Sure, and I really don't know what major label release schedules look like, but I assume Friday, historically, has been significant, else they wouldn't have switched to it?
10:22:36 [reosarevok]
So, who wants to write a how-to for the relationship editor?
10:29:15 [jacobbrett]
Has Any one submit sticker designs? http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1608
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10:32:18 [reosarevok]
Certainly not me...
10:49:47 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
hmm I'm not completely daft at such
10:50:39 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I'd need to know e.g., max amount of colours, pixel x pixel size
10:51:01 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
and evnt. any slogans particular
10:52:04 [drsaunde]
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10:52:16 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
btw, anyone in germany?
10:53:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
* ZaphodBeeblebrox is getting fed up with amazon not shipping shit to his homecountry
10:53:34 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
i need an address in germany to sendhttp://www.amazon.de/Zum-Ritter-St-Georg-Bier-Shampoo/dp/B0093WZVZ0/ .. I wil pay for your extra post and package to send it to me also
10:53:40 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
erh, http://www.amazon.de/Zum-Ritter-St-Georg-Bier-Shampoo/dp/B0093WZVZ0/
10:54:11 [jmv_]
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10:54:26 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
used to have tis in norway, bu then the store that carried it decided that "nope" and now only have one bottle, it's also ancient xd
10:56:17 [Lotheric]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19317306
10:56:23 [Lotheric]
can anyone chime in ?
10:56:50 [noobie]
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10:59:31 [kovacsur]
typewriter apostrophe as artist intent? o_O
10:59:51 [reosarevok]
I've seen weirder things
10:59:57 [reosarevok]
But yeah, he'd have to prove it :p
11:00:43 [Lotheric]
I too found that odd
11:00:55 [kovacsur]
I can imagine cases where it makes sense, such as http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/51f03e81-4a3d-30da-93f8-94b01f0e5a2c
11:01:04 [kovacsur]
but not here
11:05:15 [reosarevok]
great album btw
11:05:27 [reosarevok]
Haven't listened to it in forever
11:06:05 [Lotheric]
do it now! :)
11:09:15 [v6lur]
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11:09:46 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
that reminds me
11:11:58 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
reosarevok: tat stuff you liked at my place was http://chiptuneswin.com/ (it's pretty cool in that you can chose to pay as much or as little as you want.)
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11:22:40 [CatCat]
derwin: I'm sorry about that, I don't really see why
11:22:47 [CatCat]
I seealso that you're doing good work :/
11:24:53 [shisma]
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11:24:58 [shisma]
hi
11:25:08 [shisma]
question: this song http://musicbrainz.org/work/c636345c-8717-3ccb-ba88-f154c430cdda
11:25:16 [shisma]
has 'instrumental recordings'
11:25:42 [shisma]
shouldn't there be a seperated work which isn't a 'song'?
11:25:48 [reosarevok]
:D
11:26:04 [reosarevok]
First question: do you happen to be French? :)
11:26:33 [shisma]
I am not
11:26:54 [reosarevok]
Because that separation I've seen made mostly by French and folk music fans
11:27:11 [reosarevok]
To most other people, instrumentals are also songs nowadays
11:27:27 [reosarevok]
But yeah, it is not an unreasonable question
11:27:32 [shisma]
oh, I wouldn't like to separate it
11:27:58 [shisma]
if there is an instrumental recording somewhere its still the same work for me
11:28:15 [reosarevok]
Anyway, the work is a song in this case (with lyrics) and someone recorded the tune (without lyrics)
11:28:24 [shisma]
but it seems to be common sense
11:28:28 [shisma]
here
11:28:34 [reosarevok]
So I think it's safe to call the work a song, even if the recording is not
11:28:42 [shisma]
cool
11:28:52 [shisma]
so i suggest merge the works?
11:29:17 [reosarevok]
Hmm?
11:29:20 [reosarevok]
http://musicbrainz.org/work/c636345c-8717-3ccb-ba88-f154c430cdda is all one work
11:29:26 [reosarevok]
Which other work you want to merge? :)
11:29:37 [shisma]
http://musicbrainz.org/recording/eb4f9fff-3031-4fd2-a86d-d5ed6710abef
11:29:43 [shisma]
no wair
11:29:48 [shisma]
http://musicbrainz.org/work/fd4a46a4-bf85-3e0b-a317-85d4a3ced10e
11:29:52 [shisma]
*wait
11:29:55 [shisma]
this is the work
11:30:30 [reosarevok]
heh
11:30:35 [reosarevok]
I see it has the lyricist as composer too :)
11:30:52 [reosarevok]
So, yeah, I'd merge them I guess
11:30:52 [shisma]
yes. which is funny ^^
11:31:02 [reosarevok]
(and change that lyricist to be a lyricist)
11:31:55 [shisma]
should be corrected on merge
11:32:52 [Freso]
reosarevok shisma: I've actually considered advocating for "Tune/melody/whateever -> {Jig, Reel, Polka, Schottish, Waltz, Hornpipe, Sønderhoning, Polska, ...}"
11:32:58 [shisma]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19326797
11:33:09 [reosarevok]
Freso: as I said, French and folk music fans ;)
11:33:09 [Freso]
* Freso is a folkie and very much objects to tunes being "songs" :)
11:33:25 [Freso]
I know.
11:34:00 [reosarevok]
I'm not against marking those separately (although I would still be against adding a new work just because someone performs a song without its lyrics)
11:34:28 [Freso]
However, MusicBrinz isn't made to "cater" to "most people". It's made to cater to correct, proper music metadata.
11:34:33 [Freso]
*-Brainz
11:34:44 [Freso]
And proper data for a tune isn't saying it's a song.
11:35:02 [Freso]
reosarevok: I agree with that.
11:36:06 [reosarevok]
We do need a better work type list
11:36:08 [Freso]
reosarevok: For the purposes of "modern" music, the tune/beat of a song is usually connected with the song to begin with and released with the song at first.
11:36:26 [reosarevok]
But for that we also need a better UI for selecting types
11:36:35 [reosarevok]
What we have now is already a pain
11:36:38 [drsaunde]
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11:36:42 [Freso]
(Though even then, hip hop beats and instrumental pop is still being released on their own with no lyrics.)
11:36:49 [Freso]
Yeah.
11:36:56 [Freso]
S, S, S, S, S, Tab.
11:37:05 [reosarevok]
heh, yeah
11:37:29 [reosarevok]
And, my point was that instrumental pop is probably still called "songs" by the artists themselves
11:37:40 [reosarevok]
(although yeah, they really aren't)
11:38:04 [reosarevok]
(but I wouldn't be surprised if someone came like "artist intent, he speaks of his new songs!")
11:38:11 [Freso]
reosarevok: Most hip hop producers don't call them songs. They call them "beats". :D
11:38:27 [reosarevok]
Sure
11:38:49 [reosarevok]
That's what I call them too :p
11:38:56 [reosarevok]
I said pop, not hip hop
11:39:15 [reosarevok]
(and given how often beats are reused, having works for them wouldn't be too bad an idea)
11:39:21 [noobie]
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11:39:30 [reosarevok]
(even if they're originally released as part of a song)
11:39:40 [reosarevok]
(is a rap track a song if it's rapped and not sung?)
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11:45:54 [Freso]
That
11:46:12 [Freso]
's what "most people" would call it, including artists (in my experience). So yes.
11:50:51 [shisma]
actually someone else did the same on another song of the record http://musicbrainz.org/work/7816e7a4-8ff8-3f8a-86e1-0af2a7c09ee4
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11:53:42 [omgyja]
im looking for scanner software thats will help me scan my collection. Any advices ? Autocrop, straighten. If possible free. Thanks
11:56:35 [Freso]
omgyja: Per extensive discussion yesterday, I think I can say that you want to edit your images (for straightening, cropping, etc.) after you've scanned the image(s).
11:57:02 [Freso]
omgyja: For scanning software... what platform/OS are you on?
11:57:06 [omgyja]
win
11:59:04 [omgyja]
Freso: im scanning now with Canon MP Navigator EX and all edits like srtaighten and crop i do in ScanTailor. But problem its book based. When i do new cover i must set every value again :(
11:59:49 [Freso]
I'd guess that Photoshop would be the best bet. :)
12:00:02 [Freso]
I'm on Linux, so I'm resorting to The GIMP.
12:00:28 [Freso]
If you're up for the different UI (some love it, some hate it), you could try it.
12:01:40 [Freso]
It has most features you'd reasonably want from PS, AFAIK, although they may named differently. But unless you're a pro-GFX guy with a PS certification and you're willing to poke around enough, it should do.
12:01:54 [Freso]
And now I'm just rambling on again. Somebody stop me!
12:02:05 [omgyja]
ive portable version of gimp, but UI is completly ... uhm different than i know from PS :)
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12:02:26 [reosarevok]
Quite a polite way of saying it, yes :p
12:02:40 [omgyja]
i cant find scan from twain
12:05:12 [omgyja]
heureka !
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13:41:55 [Mineo]
hm, is there any reason why the blog section of mb.org doesn't contain links to the two latest articles? I'd expect at least the announcement of downtime to appear there
13:46:07 [warp]
Mineo: I think that's a known bug, but I cannot find the ticket for it. Perhaps it hasn't been properly supported.
13:46:11 [warp]
Mineo: ocharles knows more.
13:46:21 [warp]
s/supported/reported/
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13:51:46 [ocharles]
it's just the cache
13:56:08 [Mineo]
ah, ok. how long does it cache the entries?:)
13:56:25 [warp]
ocharles: postponing the schema release was posted quite some time ago, we should expire the cache sooner if we cannot correctly trigger a cache flush.
13:56:45 [ocharles]
that or just general lower the ttl
14:00:32 [KRSCuan]
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14:01:40 [KRSCuan]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/5fbfda44-b711-494d-b1a7-737a6add2a95
14:01:50 [KRSCuan]
Warning: You have used the Various Artists special purpose artist on:
14:01:52 [KRSCuan]
Disc 1, tracks 1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 28, 32, 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 40, 41, 44, 47, 47, 48, 52, 53, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 64, 67, 69, 70, 71, 75, 78, 80, 84, 85, 86, 88, 91, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100 >:|
14:06:45 [murk]
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14:09:04 [warp]
why would that leave the recordings?
14:09:11 [warp]
(if so, that's a bug)
14:09:25 [KRSCuan]
Yep, known bug.
14:09:45 [KRSCuan]
If a release add gets voted down, the recordings don't get removed.
14:09:58 [warp]
:S
14:10:01 [warp]
that's pretty bad.
14:12:11 [KRSCuan]
Hmm, one of the tickets I found was closed, but the problem seems to persist.
14:12:22 [KRSCuan]
Maybe only in some cases.
14:19:36 [KRSCuan]
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2529 was the original ticket, but http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-5035 is similar to the old one.
14:33:00 [bitmap]
Freso: I tried //*musicbrainz before, but it doesn't work in chromium (even though their docs give it as an example…). //*.musicbrainz seems to work though, so I'll replace it with that (+ //musicbrainz)
14:33:38 [Freso]
bitmap: :)
14:34:00 [Freso]
bitmap: You could also see if the Chromium devs have fixed it since your testing.
14:34:22 [bitmap]
I tried it again just now :)
14:34:33 [bitmap]
it says "Invalid script header" :/
14:35:48 [Freso]
Aw.
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15:35:50 [CallerNo6]
If a song is made by overlaying parts of other songs like a mashup, but is performed (rather than using pre-recorded parts), what is that called? "Medley" seems wrong.
15:36:31 [CallerNo6]
I don't mean "do we have an AR for that?" I'm just wondering if there's a word for it.
15:37:31 [kovacsur]
sounds like a medley to me.
15:38:04 [kepstin-laptop]
kind of like a medley, yeah.
15:38:28 [kepstin-laptop]
I'd say you'd probably want to make a new work, and link it as a 'later version of...' the two original works.
15:39:30 [CallerNo6]
kepstin-laptop: yes, I agree. I was just wondering if there was a proper term for this technique. "Pastiche" maybe, but that sounds ye olde fashioned.
15:41:08 [CallerNo6]
When I hear "medley" I think of one song transitioning into another, but not overlayed.
15:42:52 [Freso]
CallerNo6: Yeah, medley would be the one to use. :|
15:43:17 [Freso]
CallerNo6: I also think "medley" is wrong for "sets" in trad. music, but it's the best we have as of right now.
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15:49:14 [CallerNo6]
Unsatisfying. I want there to be a cool word for it, something out of a paul. d. miller manifesto.
15:49:22 [CallerNo6]
:-)
15:49:55 [Lomaxx]
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15:52:41 [Lomaxx]
Understanding question about discIDs and tracktimes: Sometimes a release has several discID. IMHO this often is only because someone who didn't know or care about a different release, quickly applied the discID of his CD to an existing release, just to quickly assign the tracklist and be able to tag the tracks. ...
15:53:35 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: the actual reason is slightly more complicated
15:53:51 [Lomaxx]
I am currently trying to set the tracktimes of the releases I am submitting according to the discIDs, but if the unique discID is assigned to two releases at once, then I am changing the tracklist of both releases, which I do not want.
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15:54:07 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: before our current schema, multiple versions of a release would be combined into a single "release" with multiple "release events"
15:54:34 [kepstin-laptop]
when each release event was split into a separate release in ngs, nobody knew which disc id corresponded to which release, so they had to copy to all of them
15:54:56 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: the bug you're hitting right now with the shared tracklists is known and annoying :/
15:55:17 [Lomaxx]
kepstin-laptop, So is it legit/welcome to remove a discID from a release having multiple discIDs, as long as I submitted a new release that got that discID assigned to?
15:55:49 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: probably nobody will object; but there's usually no way to know for sure which disc id corresponds to which release(s)
15:56:02 [kepstin-laptop]
how do you know that the other release *didn't* have that id?
15:56:29 [Lomaxx]
kepstin-laptop, because the times differ? I wonder if that is proof enough, but I am not sure.
15:56:30 [Freso]
Lomaxx: I'd say yes; https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19322667 :p
15:57:03 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Look through the edits. See who added the DiscID in the first place.
15:57:12 [kepstin-laptop]
but yes; go ahead. in the worst case they're easy to re-add.
15:57:21 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Was it added by the same editor that added the album/release in the first place?
15:58:00 [Lomaxx]
alright, thanks for the clues and comment to both of you :)
15:58:13 [Freso]
Did the editor who added the DiscID add any other edits or edit notes related to the release that might relevant?
15:58:23 [Freso]
You're welcome.
15:59:13 [Lomaxx]
hm, so i need 28 days at best to change the times. 14 to remove the discIDs and then 14 again to apply the times to my submitted release. well not that much of a problem.
16:00:43 [Freso]
At best, you'd need 2 hours.
16:01:18 [kepstin-laptop]
an autoeditor can do it in 1 hour, but that's the limit :/
16:01:22 [Freso]
One hour: remove DiscID, get 3 votes; 2nd hour: removal applied, apply times, get 3 votes
16:02:02 [Freso]
Well, technically ~60 minutes could probably do it, if you'd remove DiscID and get 3 votes *just* before ModBot makes it to the edit.
16:02:46 [Freso]
kepstin-laptop: In the above scenario, an AE could do it in a few minutes. Just time it right. :p
16:03:18 [kepstin-laptop]
Freso: waiting until modbot is about to run averages 30 minutes :)
16:03:41 [Freso]
Just, but we're not talking average, we're talking best case. :p
16:03:47 [Freso]
*best case scenario
16:03:50 [kepstin-laptop]
heh
16:03:54 [Freso]
*Yes
16:03:56 [Lomaxx]
oh, more confusion: http://musicbrainz.org/cdtoc/60SNIR3LzYNmSkPLc4.Zgnq.og4-/set-durations?tracklist=1312556 I wanted to do change tracktimes, but it tells me that these two releases use the tracklist, though the discID differs. How can that be?
16:03:58 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. my laptop's 3 key is unhappy.
16:04:18 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: known issue with the silly tracklist automerging stuff
16:04:41 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: the workaround is to make a trivial edit to split the tracklists, set the tracktimes, then undo the trivial edit
16:04:48 [kepstin-laptop]
waiting for application between each step
16:04:48 [Freso]
Tracklists/mediums ought to be their own entities...
16:05:15 [kepstin-laptop]
Freso: or at least act like separate entities. this stupid weird automerging stuff sucks.
16:05:57 [kepstin-laptop]
Lomaxx: as an autoeditor, I can do that track time edit for you in a couple of minutes.
16:06:08 [kepstin-laptop]
if you say which release you want it on?
16:07:01 [Lomaxx]
kepstin-laptop, no sweat. I got quite a couple of these and I am just a bit picky. Most of them only differ by one second for a single track of the cd. So I don't want to bother you with that.
16:07:47 [Lomaxx]
Thanks for the offer though.
16:11:03 [Freso]
I wish salo.rock would add recordings and release groups to his merge search. :|
16:12:51 [Lomaxx]
Would be nice to have the times automatically when assigning a discID and there is no other discID assigned. Because I often submit "various artist"-cds by deleting the the empty tracklist that is bound to the discID and instead "add a disc" (from freeDB) and submit the discID afterwards again.
16:13:01 [Lomaxx]
automatically applied*
16:15:36 [Freso]
Lomaxx: That will leave a ton of unassociated recordings in the DB though. :|
16:17:19 [Lomaxx]
Freso, aren't recording created after switching from the "tracklist"-section to the "recordings"-section while submitting a cd?
16:17:48 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Oh, when submitting, sure.
16:17:54 [Lomaxx]
ok
16:30:32 [derwin]
CatCat: I think it's semi-reasonable to critique aspects of my editing, it's just a bit unusual for the message to be so strongly "no" without glaring problems with my editing? hard to know where to improve.. ?
16:30:55 [derwin]
< jacobbrett> Sure, and I really don't know what major label release schedules look like, but I assume Friday,
16:30:58 [derwin]
historically, has been significant, else they wouldn't have switched to it?
16:31:01 [derwin]
tuesdays is the day in general.
16:32:10 [derwin]
(at least in the USA)
16:45:06 [Freso]
derwin: It wasn't a US release. :)
16:45:21 [derwin]
Freso: yeah, I saw it's german, way back there, heh.
16:46:37 [Freso]
derwin: People do explain why they're voting no though; http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-automods/2012-October/thread.html
16:46:57 [Freso]
At least three people have so far done so.
16:47:11 [KRSCuan]
derwin: Apart from what I said about putting credits into annotations, there's probably not that much wrong with your edits.
16:47:30 [KRSCuan]
But there's a difference between being a good editor and being a good auto-editor.
16:47:50 [Freso]
derwin: Also, your edits may not be wrong per se, but one of the points raised is the lack of versatility in your edits so far.
16:48:03 [derwin]
KRSCuan: I didn't see your note on that.. I put credits into annotations because they are there at import time. I could just omit them?
16:48:28 [Freso]
derwin: You should leave them in, but remove them as your replace the annotation notes with ARs. :)
16:48:30 [derwin]
but yes, the edits I make are generally music that : 1) I listen to 2) isn't in MB already 3) but is in discogs
16:48:34 [Freso]
*as you
16:48:45 [KRSCuan]
derwin: Look at http://musicbrainz.org/release/91fbe996-55f1-40ea-bd61-6cd89f30d9b6 for example.
16:48:54 [derwin]
Freso: that's more or less why I put them there, but I don't actually go back and convert them.. but someone could..
16:49:31 [derwin]
KRSCuan: what about that example, in speciic?
16:49:33 [derwin]
*specific
16:49:46 [KRSCuan]
Producer – Erik Roos, Larry Tee; Written-By – Daphne Gomez-Mena, Debbie Attias, Larry Tee, Michael Pedraza*
16:49:46 [Freso]
derwin: Which is why they're voting no. :) One of the reasons people votes for me being an auto-editor way back, was because I was striving towards fully AR'ing releases I was adding.
16:49:47 [KRSCuan]
That stuff should be entered as relationships.
16:50:09 [derwin]
KRSCuan: right, I know, but there is no way to enter those relationships while adding the release.
16:50:16 [KRSCuan]
4 panel digipak cover. ← Digipak belongs to the packaging field.
16:50:19 [Freso]
derwin: Not that this is a requirement, of course, but it does subject you to a wider variety of edits and more editing decisions you need to make.
16:50:28 [KRSCuan]
Can be added to the annotation too.
16:50:43 [derwin]
KRSCuan: so I can either enter most of the stuff that needs entering as I import, and hope the rest of the stuff gets added eventually
16:50:46 [kepstin-laptop]
derwin: you can't do them from in the release editor, but you can certainly add them as soon as you've submitted the release add edit.
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16:51:31 [derwin]
kepstin-laptop: right. and it's fair as a critique that I do not do that. but essentially, like all the remix ARs I don't edit, I figure those are for either ppl who like adding ARs and/or ppl who write bots to do so
16:51:49 [Freso]
(E.g., is this "insturmnet" really "instrumnet" or "insturment"? Do I go for their parent instrument, or research to figure out which particular one it was - and/or make a motion to have it included in the instrument tree?)
16:51:51 [derwin]
I *could* take the time to 100% every release, but I've been tending to 85% them instead, and have more of them.
16:52:26 [derwin]
if it's preferred that I 100%, I *can* do that, but it will dramatically reduce the number of new labels, artists, etc I add.. and I've been viewing that as a goal along with my practical tagging..
16:52:27 [KRSCuan]
And auto-editors are expected to strive for those 100%. ;)
16:52:33 [KRSCuan]
Or maybe 95%.
16:52:43 [derwin]
ok, well I do in general *strive* for that as a goal, and appreciate it
16:52:54 [derwin]
but not necessarily on initial import?
16:53:03 [kepstin-laptop]
if you're just adding things, but not editing and improving things already there, then you don't really get much benefit from being an autoeditor, imo.
16:53:21 [kepstin-laptop]
i suppose it does remove your adds from the requires-voting queue
16:54:30 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop heads out.
16:55:36 [derwin]
kepstin-laptop: the major interest I have in auto-editing is a specific case. basically if I miss that I have made a mistake while importing, it takes over a week for my corrections to take.
16:55:59 [derwin]
I can just use beets import -L to re-tag eventually, and that works fine
16:56:17 [KRSCuan]
Don't make mistakes in the first place. :)
16:56:23 [derwin]
but it seems odd when I : 1) know there's a problem 2) know the solution 3) have to wait a week 4) when nobody cares to vote on it
16:56:36 [derwin]
KRSCuan: heh, 9/10 times the mistake in this case is not mine, it's the person entering into discogs.
16:56:57 [KRSCuan]
Well, that could be a feature request – make it easier for editors to correct their edits while they are still in queue.
16:57:11 [KRSCuan]
But that would need someone to implement that.
16:57:13 [derwin]
fwiw, if I could do remixer in the release editor
16:57:17 [KRSCuan]
And it could mess with voting.
16:57:20 [derwin]
I would take the time to do it, because I care about it
16:58:07 [KRSCuan]
There's a new relationship editor that will make adding relationships to releases much easier.
16:58:30 [KRSCuan]
It's already on beta.musicbrainz.org and will probably be in the next server release.
16:58:36 [derwin]
but ok, this is reasonable feedback. I am relatively unlikely to stop doing either the genre or style of import that I do (in terms of 99% coming via discogs or beatport importer) but I can make an effort to bump up my initial quality..
16:59:01 [derwin]
KRSCuan: I feel like there's some sort of.. boundary.. here..
16:59:09 [derwin]
I wonder how ppl think about it. Basically it goes like..
16:59:16 [derwin]
I am editing because I am tagging
16:59:26 [KRSCuan]
Dinnertime, bbl
16:59:29 [derwin]
are most editors editing because they are tagging?
17:00:01 [derwin]
I am a pretty obsessive person about music metadata, but other than as, like, a hobby
17:00:09 [derwin]
it's hard for me to understand editing without tagging?
17:01:10 [Freso]
derwin: Some people are editing because they're tagging.
17:01:26 [Freso]
derwin: Some people are editing because they're "archiving" the data.
17:01:55 [Freso]
derwin: Some people are editing because they need the data to be available for other services (BBC, MXM, Spotify, ...).
17:02:22 [voiceinsideyou]
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17:02:28 [yoasif_work]
wait, my inputs are being used by evil commercial companies? ;)
17:02:33 [Freso]
derwin: Other people are likely doing it for entirely different reasons.
17:02:47 [Freso]
yoasif_work: All MB data is free; yes.
17:03:33 [yoasif_work]
thats gotta be interesting on their end
17:03:36 [yoasif_work]
like herding cats
17:03:42 [mat_]
can someone log on iswcnet or is it only broken for me ?
17:03:51 [Freso]
yoasif_work: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Database
17:03:58 [Freso]
Note the licensing data.
17:04:50 [yoasif_work]
ah PD
17:04:55 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Also http://metabrainz.org/doc/Customers for those who pay for access to MB data and other people we know use it.
17:05:20 [derwin]
I just don't really understand archiving the data without doing anything with it
17:05:33 [derwin]
is part of it.. I'm a DBA, and if you store data you want to query it in my mind :)
17:05:37 [Freso]
(Though, we know about more than the one non-paying user, but for some reasons isn't listing them.)
17:05:45 [yoasif_work]
yeah
17:05:49 [yoasif_work]
i need a mb t shirt
17:05:59 [Freso]
DBA?
17:06:06 [yoasif_work]
someone needs to nominate me for autoeditor though :P
17:06:08 [derwin]
but yeah, in summary, I'll gladly improve the quality of my imports but I'm unlikely to change the type of imports they are..
17:06:14 [derwin]
yoasif_work: careful what you wish for!
17:06:22 [derwin]
Freso: database administrator.
17:06:23 [yoasif_work]
derwin: whys that
17:06:30 [Freso]
derwin: Ah. Well, like I said, most of the time I'd do my best to get as close to 100% ARs etc.
17:07:06 [Freso]
derwin: I'd only be able to use at most 70-80% of that data in the form of tags and tags known by my used media players.
17:07:31 [voiceinsideyou1]
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17:07:34 [derwin]
yoasif_work: http://musicbrainz.org/election/237
17:07:36 [yoasif_work]
Freso: that just means that we need to pressure media player devs to improve the usage of the available data
17:07:37 [Freso]
derwin: The remaining 20-30% is purely for knowing the data is now available, even if I may never use it myself.
17:08:03 [derwin]
although great feedback on my edits
17:08:06 [yoasif_work]
derwin: are there comments there or something that i can't see?
17:08:07 [Freso]
yoasif_work: The data needs to be made available first though. Which means more people need to strive for those 100%. :)
17:08:08 [yoasif_work]
:P
17:08:14 [derwin]
for example some cases Guess Case doesn't work on
17:08:22 [derwin]
yoasif_work: no, mostly the 3/21 Y/N ratio :)
17:08:54 [yoasif_work]
derwin: im better than this guy ;)
17:08:56 [derwin]
Freso: I guess I'm viewing going from 0% (no release) to 85%-with-all-the-entities-to-improve as really significant, versus the 85-100% data cleanliness?
17:09:09 [derwin]
yoasif_work: hehe, he thought he was better too!
17:09:16 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Comments on AE elections generally go to the automods list; http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-automods/2012-October/thread.html
17:09:58 [Freso]
derwin: I haven't voted no to your becoming an AE. Mind that. :)
17:10:02 [yoasif_work]
derwin: thoughts on my edits? :)
17:10:11 [derwin]
yoasif_work: url me?
17:10:16 [kepstin-laptop]
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17:10:29 [yoasif_work]
derwin: http://musicbrainz.org/user/yoasif/edits
17:10:30 [derwin]
Freso: aww. actually I am mostly encouraged by being voted down.
17:10:48 [derwin]
Freso: even if I would have appreciated understanding how likely that was before the slightly embarassing experience?
17:11:06 [derwin]
but many communities are so desperate for participants that they lower standards, and I'm glad that's not happening :)
17:11:13 [Freso]
derwin: I do agree that getting to 70-80 percent is good, and def. infinitely better than 0% - but if we want to push media players to use the data of the last ~25%, it needs to be available too.
17:11:18 [yoasif_work]
derwin: yeah i like that too
17:12:29 [yoasif_work]
bah, my edits before 2012 dont show up
17:12:41 [yoasif_work]
oh wait, i have to keep clicking last
17:12:47 [shisma]
is there a way to split a work?
17:13:41 [Freso]
shisma: No. :/
17:13:50 [kepstin-laptop]
derwin: I suspect that most of the autoeditors don't mostly import from discogs; in fact most of the stuff I do isn't on discogs at all. So this sort of automatic bot stuff doesn't happen much.
17:14:29 [shisma]
can I put a feature request somewhere? ^^
17:14:33 [Freso]
shisma: I usually rename/repurpose the work to be the first one not already existing in the db, and then add the remaining works manually.
17:15:05 [shisma]
or maybe clone an existing work
17:15:07 [derwin]
kepstin-laptop: but yes, I think because I am into electronic music and discogs is what it is, I am an unusual editor in that way. 99% of things I want to import are in discogs or on beatport, because I'm importing to dj with
17:15:34 [shisma]
just in ordner to keep the relations
17:18:06 [yoasif_work]
derwin: feedback? :P
17:18:07 [Freso]
derwin: One of my adds from a while back: https://musicbrainz.org/release/ef619505-7f4e-443b-8de5-e51817f519b9
17:18:44 [Freso]
derwin: Don't rely on bots.
17:19:15 [shisma]
or is it possible to copy and paste relationships?
17:19:19 [Freso]
Ugh.
17:19:39 [Freso]
And obviously an add from before [traditional] was merged into [unknown]. D:
17:19:49 [Freso]
Silly, silly people who did that. -.-
17:19:53 [derwin]
Freso: philosophically, it's difficult for me to want to spend time doing things I don't "have" to (because they could be done in an automated fashion), I view it as coming at the expense of things only I can do.
17:20:06 [Mineo]
dear reoafk, thanks for nominating listmycds, voting hasn't been fun with him opening so many good edits :-)
17:20:12 [kepstin-laptop]
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17:21:16 [derwin]
anyway, I have to get to work. but I will strive to improve the quality of my edits, I will make a little list of things I don't currently do, and determine my approach to getting those done
17:21:59 [derwin]
I really am hoping to provide the best balance of time spent vs. value/quality, and appreciate all feedback :D
17:22:24 [Freso]
derwin: I usually just open a new tab. Since I already thave the Discogs/whatever site open and am going to copy the address anyway in my edit note, it's a matter of seconds for copying the address into the Add URL rel. page in addition to the edit note.
17:23:04 [derwin]
Freso: I relate the release 100% of the time
17:23:13 [derwin]
Freso: and in fact submitted a bug on that interface
17:23:24 [derwin]
which was fixed, to speed me up :)
17:24:35 [derwin]
ok, really afk
17:24:47 [yoasif_work]
i look forward to bots scanning cover art to add data
17:24:48 [yoasif_work]
:P
17:24:49 [derwin]
I think I will put a little note on my editor bio
17:25:10 [kepstin-laptop]
man, my irc client really sucks at reconnecting when I switch wireless networks :/
17:25:12 [derwin]
explaining why most of my edits are discogs imports, at least
17:26:38 [hawke_2]
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17:27:28 [Freso]
adding in the edits yourself.
17:28:00 [yoasif_work]
url relationships are basically instantaneous anywya
17:28:05 [yoasif_work]
as far as normal users go
17:28:06 [yoasif_work]
ime
17:28:35 [Freso]
yoasif_work: They're usable right away, yes, but they're not added. :)
17:29:03 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Plus, we have far more people opening edits than we have people closing them.
17:29:30 [Mineo]
the only one closing edits being ModBot :)
17:29:55 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Every time an auto-editor has to approve an add URL edit (including verifying the URL matches up properly), it takes time away from voting on other edits.
17:30:11 [Freso]
Mineo: I close edits too.
17:30:21 [Freso]
;)
17:30:32 [Freso]
* Freso has teh p0wer!!
17:30:35 [yoasif_work]
Freso: isnt that done based on votes? i guess i dont really understand why autoeditors would put themselves out
17:31:12 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Auto-editors can "approve" edits they would've been able to enter as auto-edits.
17:31:21 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Which bypasses the whole voting system.
17:31:52 [Freso]
I believe I already approved a few of your edits. :)
17:32:00 [yoasif_work]
Freso: in that case, work through my open edit queue :P
17:34:52 [Freso]
yoasif_work: https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19330985
17:35:23 [shisma]
bye!
17:35:40 [yoasif_work]
Freso: thanks :)
17:40:14 [hawke_2]
Really? Really? John Williams the guitarist performed on a soundtrack? I wonder how many sites will get it right/wrong?
17:40:17 [Freso]
https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19326905 :D
17:40:32 [Freso]
Haha.
17:40:52 [yoasif_work]
Freso: :P
17:41:23 [Freso]
yoasif_work: It would nice to let us (editors voting on your edits) know what info you base your recording merges on.
17:42:03 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Stating "merge recordings" doesn't add a lot of information when the edit type is "Merge recordings".
17:42:36 [yoasif_work]
Freso: yeah... ill need to be better at that... i was just going after identical releases
17:42:47 [Freso]
Just saying "Same track name, artist name, track length" is good. Anything more, better. :)
17:43:24 [ruaok]
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17:43:24 [ruaok]
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17:43:52 [hawke_2]
...but please check AcoustIDs too. :-p
17:44:08 [Freso]
E.g., if they share ISRCs, AcoustIDs, PUIDs, appear on releases from the same release group, if they're all on standard, mass produced compilations (Absolute Music, etc. - you know what I mean), etc.
17:44:17 [Freso]
hawke_2: ^ :)
17:45:15 [Freso]
E.g, https://musicbrainz.org/edit/19322002 - there's a 4th recording with the same ISRC I didn't add to the merge, as that one also has another ISRC.
17:45:51 [Freso]
As I didn't have time to fully investigate (other than checking the other ISRC quickly), I decided to err on the side of safety and delay the merging of that for another time.
17:46:00 [Freso]
Most likely, that recording's a mess anyway... -.-
17:46:14 [yoasif_work]
haha
17:56:14 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Anyway. Edits won't work from T-3 minutes
17:56:30 [Freso]
yoasif_work: Just if you have anything important you need to add right away.
17:57:09 [yoasif_work]
Freso: yeah no big deal... im probably heading out to lunch soon
18:01:17 [CatBuss]
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18:02:56 [CatBuss]
heh, i am on norwegian evita
18:03:06 [CallerNo6]
fwiw, I don't edit for tagging purposes. I guess I fall into the archivist category.
18:08:58 [Lomaxx]
uhm, maybe I am totally confused now, but I'll dare to ask: I was updating the flac-tags of a release with picard and picard shows me a difference for all tracks. It wants to at a date (1987). But when looking at the release through my browser then I can see no release-date for that release, nor can i see that it was added in the editing-history: http://musicbrainz.org/release/6c50acc7-51f2-4eb2-b00a-11487b3374a0
18:09:12 [Lomaxx]
And i already checked that i selected the right release-version.
18:09:54 [dubwai]
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18:10:42 [Freso]
Lomaxx: What is the name of the field?
18:11:01 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Original release date?
18:11:08 [Freso]
Lomaxx: https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/69d673d5-3484-3e2d-92d9-7663e0a0e150
18:11:36 [Lomaxx]
yes it is. So does it take that from the other release?
18:11:44 [Lomaxx]
Freso
18:11:59 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Yep.
18:12:46 [Lomaxx]
Freso, So as long as I do not enter a new release date, then it takes one from the another release of the same release-group?
18:13:27 [Freso]
Lomaxx: No and yes.
18:14:09 [Freso]
Lomaxx: The "original release date" will _always_ be the earliest date in the release's release group.
18:14:35 [Freso]
Lomaxx: So unless you set your current release earlier than the earliest there, it will still use that.
18:14:49 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Note that the tag for "Release date" is a different one.
18:15:03 [Freso]
Lomaxx: And the two can be different.
18:15:04 [Lomaxx]
I see. Then I got it ... i think. =)
18:15:24 [Freso]
:)
18:24:51 [ianmcorvidae]
warning for everyone: the site will probably be readonly for a chunk here; we're slowly moving things to our backup DB server so we can do the schema change :)
18:28:39 [Lomaxx]
picard's cluster-mechanism could use some improvement. It's putting releases together that have the same name (like 'Greatest Hits'), but reside in different directories..
18:40:09 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Once the files are loaded into Picard, it doesn't care about filenames or directories.
18:40:36 [Freso]
Which I'm pretty sure is how it's meant to be. I wouldn't want it any different anyway. :)
18:41:10 [derwin]
hrm, I just got a rather large perl stacktrace
18:41:15 [derwin]
when trying to remove cover art
18:41:34 [uk]
derwin: site is read-only
18:41:42 [derwin]
ah, that'd do it.
18:41:45 [derwin]
schema release?
18:41:47 [derwin]
oh, HAH
18:41:51 [derwin]
* derwin reads up 3 lines.
18:41:58 [Lomaxx]
Freso, so it's in general the wrong way of me while rescanning files for changes to load a directory, cluster the content, and look up stuff afterwards?
18:42:58 [warp]
Lomaxx: I'd just do a couple of releases at a time, yes.
18:43:14 [derwin]
freso^^
18:46:37 [Lomaxx]
warp, that's a bit clumsy (not sure if it's the right word for it). You mean when i want to check a directory containing say 400 subdirectories then it's me (and not picard) who has to carefully pick out directory that do not confuse the (anti-)clustering-mechanism?
18:47:16 [Lomaxx]
or i have to pick each directory one by one? not practical either.
18:48:23 [DremoraLV]
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18:49:30 [warp]
Lomaxx: I have a seperate folder where I drop stuff which needs tagging. I just load that into picard and tag stuff, and then move it to the correct location afterward. You can also have picard to the moving.
18:50:11 [Lomaxx]
warp, I do that, but occasionally i want to retag stuff, when my changes get applied for example
18:50:47 [warp]
I have seperate folders for each artist, so in that case I just open the artist folder in picard.
18:50:52 [Lomaxx]
and i don't want to check each single release manually, but just let picard do the work and look out for "*"s behind the name
18:51:02 [Lomaxx]
hmm
18:51:23 [warp]
picard isn't really built to load your entire music collection in one go, it doesn't deal with that well.
18:51:52 [Lomaxx]
well, it's doing good enought to make me expect this little flaw :o)
18:51:58 [warp]
(perhaps it _should_ deal with that well, but that is going to take some effort, feel free to contribute :)
18:52:00 [Lomaxx]
flaw to be gone*
18:52:26 [Lomaxx]
I think if i would contribute, it would get more flaws, not less. *g*
18:55:45 [Freso]
Lomaxx: If the files are already tagged, Picard should pick up the MBID.
18:58:28 [Lomaxx]
Freso, hm, then i don't get why it threw together the "Greatest Hits" of Mahalia Jackson and Dave Brubeck
18:59:30 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Well, it wouldn't have if it'd picked up on the MBIDs instead of placing them in the middle column. :)
18:59:40 [Freso]
Lomaxx: Have you set Picard to not scan on file load?
18:59:52 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop notes that on linux with 64bit python, picard works fairly well with around 10k files at a time.
18:59:54 [flamingspinach]
Is mbz down?
19:00:07 [kepstin-laptop]
flamingspinach: in process of a schema upgrade.
19:00:09 [flamingspinach]
I'm getting HTTP 500s
19:00:10 [flamingspinach]
oh
19:00:24 [warp]
flamingspinach: it shouldn't be down, but it is read-only while the upgrade is happening.
19:00:49 [kepstin-laptop]
flamingspinach: what pages are you seeing the errors on?
19:01:14 [Lomaxx]
Freso, yes, i have set to not scan.
19:01:16 [flamingspinach]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/subscribed for example
19:01:31 [flamingspinach]
huh, even http://musicbrainz.org/ is giving me HTTP 500
19:02:05 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. works for me, just kind of slow.
19:02:07 [ianmcorvidae]
yeah, that's going to happen, just hold tight for a sec
19:02:10 [flamingspinach]
oh, it's back now
19:06:54 [hawke_2]
Oooh, 5 more books in the Humble eBook bundle.
19:08:18 [Freso]
Lomaxx: That'd be why then. Try to scan your clusters intead of looking them up as they are.
19:08:25 [Freso]
*instead
19:08:37 [warp]
hawke_2: ah, and they got added to my account. nice.
19:09:30 [warp]
hawke_2: all comics I guess? only PDF for the new books.
19:09:39 [hawke_2]
Looks that way
19:09:55 [hawke_2]
xkcd, a couple of penny arcade things..
19:10:11 [warp]
132 MB for a pdf. :)
19:20:03 [Lomaxx]
Freso, I'm not sure if we mean the same thing. The flaw I am speaking about is that it already throws two directories into one cluster when pressing the cluster-button (without scanning or looking it up). When i look that cluster up afterwards it fails of course too though. And scanning always works. But I don't always want to scan as it takes much more time on my outdated computer.
19:21:18 [hawke_2]
Must be really really outdated; scanning is pretty fast generally.
19:21:40 [Freso]
Lomaxx: We are talking about the same thing. Just scan the cluster instead of looking it up.
19:22:25 [warp]
* warp never uses scan.
19:22:43 [Lomaxx]
hawke, amd athlon xp 2600+ :P
19:23:34 [Lomaxx]
or hawke_2
19:23:55 [Freso]
Lomaxx: hawke_n
19:23:57 [hawke_2]
Lomaxx: I wouldn't think that would be all that slow
19:24:03 [hawke_2]
hawke_* ;-)
19:24:17 [Freso]
hawke_.
19:24:31 [Freso]
* Freso is talking databases in another chat >_>
19:28:26 [reoafk]
* reoafk tries to open KRSCuan's link from earlier, gets an ISE
19:29:11 [reoafk]
Also, KRSCuan / warp : in case you haven't seen already, IIRC they do get removed when the release is voted down now but I think only if they have no relationships
19:29:11 [omgyja]
horrible things happened with MB http://pastebin.com/LYDxFDWr
19:29:33 [reoafk]
So if someone added a relationship to all recordings, you're fucked
19:29:36 [ianmcorvidae]
omgyja: just a sec, mid-schema-change :)
19:29:49 [reoafk]
Oh, ok :)
19:30:04 [warp]
reoafk: oh. hm.
19:30:05 [dubwai]
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19:30:07 [ianmcorvidae]
we have some things that are running old code on the new schema
19:30:57 [omgyja]
ouch why in web primetime ? ok ill wait, going to bath
19:31:22 [adhawkins]
omgyja: Web primetime where exactly?
19:31:29 [adhawkins]
Musicbrainz isn't a 'local' service.
19:31:48 [derwin]
any eta on site non-read-only?
19:31:56 [uk]
omgyja: Developers from America and Europe have to be awake.
19:32:06 [ianmcorvidae]
derwin: one of three servers is already done, working on the others now
19:32:16 [omgyja]
i think that 20-22hrs is time where most of people are browsing
19:32:33 [ianmcorvidae]
omgyja: people all across the world use musicbrainz; it's 12:30 here :P
19:32:39 [derwin]
Lomaxx: beets has a method of applying refreshed tags which result in path changes, is that what you're asking about?
19:32:46 [derwin]
omgyja: yeah, it's 12:30 here :)
19:32:54 [derwin]
I'm at work, but I want to delete some wrong cover-art
19:32:54 [derwin]
lol
19:33:04 [ianmcorvidae]
and yes, the timing is because we have people in california, arizona, london, and the netherlands, and all of them needed to be around to help :)
19:33:06 [derwin]
probably should have [off] that one
19:33:09 [adhawkins]
omgyja: Yes, but 20-22 where exactly?
19:33:44 [KRSCuan]
reoafk: Which link?
19:33:53 [omgyja]
ok, you beat me :) im going to bath and ill wait
19:33:56 [reoafk]
KRSCuan, the release, but it was just because of the schema change
19:33:59 [reoafk]
I think
19:34:23 [Freso]
derwin: Why? I don't think their respective countries are any secret...
19:34:42 [kovacsur]
I think he meant the part about him being at work
19:34:43 [reoafk]
Freso, guess he meant the "i'm at work" bit :p
19:34:48 [Freso]
Oh.
19:34:54 [reoafk]
Now we've said it three times so EVERYBODY KNOWS
19:34:55 [Freso]
Right.
19:34:57 [reoafk]
:D
19:35:00 [Freso]
:p
19:35:10 [derwin]
oh, the dotcommity
19:35:12 [derwin]
dotcomedy
19:35:18 [adhawkins]
derwin: You at work?
19:35:21 [adhawkins]
Shocking...
19:36:02 [kovacsur]
Hey, at least we didn't post his real name and the name of the company he works at.
19:36:26 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae is also at work!
19:36:29 [adhawkins]
* adhawkins googles
19:36:31 [ianmcorvidae]
(obviously :P)
19:40:50 [ruaok]
ok, we should be back!
19:42:51 [dubwai]
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19:46:14 [dubwai]
It's possible in picard to get standardized names of ablumartist and artist and save them to multi-value tag (lik MBIDs) to albumartistsort and artistsort for exmaple. But normal artist and albumartist must be not standardized.
19:46:27 [dubwai]
I have idea to get navigation in foobar2000 like in MB site. Content metada like on cover but navigation like in site :)
20:10:00 [JoeLlama]
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20:23:11 [ianmcorvidae]
warning for everyone: we have an outstanding bug and the people who know how to fix it seem to have (reasonably) gone to bed -- if you edit/add a release that doesn't have a disambiguation comment, stick a space in the field as a workaround; we'll release a hotfix as soon as we can
20:56:53 [yoasif_work]
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21:02:07 [FoonDi]
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21:05:13 [FoonDi]
Does the musicbrainz.org/search/etc. internal search utilize the musicbrainz.org/ws/2/etc. API?
21:05:42 [ianmcorvidae]
both /search and /ws/2 call out to the search server
21:06:40 [FoonDi]
hmm, ok - I am trying to replicate results that I see from /search in /ws/2 but can't seem to
21:07:09 [ianmcorvidae]
the ws itself will only use advanced search
21:07:16 [ianmcorvidae]
on /search the default is indexed
21:07:25 [ianmcorvidae]
that's probably the root of your issues :)
21:07:54 [ianmcorvidae]
if you select "indexed search with advanced query syntax" on /search that'll give you an accurate picture of things
21:09:03 [FoonDi]
for instance, I do this search on work entities http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=hello&type=work&method=indexed and I see all the artists listed however when doing the same in /ws/2 e.g http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/work/?query=hello it will only give the writers not the singers
21:10:17 [FoonDi]
ianmcorvidae: just tried that, same results - artists show up
21:10:28 [ianmcorvidae]
http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/work/?query=hello&inc=artists
21:10:54 [ianmcorvidae]
er, hm
21:11:16 [FoonDi]
heh
21:11:19 [jmv__]
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21:11:26 [ianmcorvidae]
* ianmcorvidae wasn't reading carefully enough :)
21:11:31 [ianmcorvidae]
so, those are linked to the recordings
21:14:10 [FoonDi]
what is linked to the recordings?
21:14:46 [ianmcorvidae]
singers, etc.
21:14:58 [ianmcorvidae]
sorry, I'm doing three things at once :)
21:15:04 [FoonDi]
oh yeah
21:15:09 [FoonDi]
heh, np :)
21:15:34 [ianmcorvidae]
for /search we have it load recording artists after it gets the search result
21:15:56 [ianmcorvidae]
you'll probably have to look up the works individually with the appropriate inc parameter incantations
21:16:00 [FoonDi]
ah I was hoping that wasn't the case
21:20:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
<derwin> Freso: aww. actually I am mostly encouraged by being voted down.
21:20:08 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I'm so glad you have this attitude
21:20:16 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
derwin> Freso: even if I would have appreciated understanding how likely that was before the slightly embarassing experience
21:20:23 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
and I apologise for that, truly
21:20:30 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I am kinda embarrassed too
21:20:48 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
because of someone's wordings I thought for a second that it was because of *me* people voted on :s
21:20:52 [derwin]
heh, it's actually pretty fine
21:21:01 [derwin]
I am thinking I am going to put a little note on my account
21:21:06 [derwin]
for anyone who might see the vote late
21:21:16 [derwin]
that says something like "I edit <in_this_way>"
21:21:33 [derwin]
because I think I am relatively unique, but I think my unique style is mostly pretty ok, just slightly atypical
21:21:37 [FoonDi]
hmm, so a ws/2/work query which grabs the works, then a ws/2/work/MBID/?inc=recording-rels lookup for each result which will fetch all the recordings for that work and finally a ws/2/recording/MBID/?inc=artists to grab the artists for that recording, thus fetching the artists for the work
21:21:46 [FoonDi]
that can't really be the way to do it can it?
21:23:39 [derwin]
like, I bet if you compared my stats on for example labels and artists added as a ratio-per-edit, I bet I outperform meaningfully
21:23:44 [ianmcorvidae]
you should be able to get the recording stuff on the work query
21:23:55 [derwin]
because I add niche music where the artist often only has 1 or 2 releases
21:24:10 [ianmcorvidae]
hm, or maybe not
21:24:12 [ianmcorvidae]
meh
21:24:34 [derwin]
I, rightly or wrongly, view a new artist entity as more significant than a new release entity
21:24:46 [derwin]
there are fewer artists than releases, which makes an artist more "rare" :)
21:25:47 [KRSCuan]
Artists: 694,429
21:25:49 [KRSCuan]
Release Groups: 894,445
21:25:50 [KRSCuan]
Releases: 1,079,943
21:25:54 [KRSCuan]
All pretty common.
21:25:58 [KRSCuan]
:p
21:26:55 [derwin]
labels are pretty uncommon in comparison to artists even :)
21:27:14 [derwin]
so yeah, I view the fact that I've added a lot of labels and artists as a relatively strong mark in my favor :)
21:27:38 [FoonDi]
ianmcorvidae: yeah, I don't understand why /work doesn't allow any of the typical inc= subqueries... would make this very easy
21:27:55 [ianmcorvidae]
it allows the typical ones when you pass an mbid, as usual
21:28:02 [ianmcorvidae]
searches don't do ?inc at all
21:28:18 [ianmcorvidae]
what it doesn't allow is the release-lookup-only inc parameters like recording-level-rels :/
21:28:45 [FoonDi]
oh right, I keep forgetting searches don't do inc
21:29:44 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I actually don't disagree with the "a human doing the things only humans can do" but i also think that you should instead of relying on bots to "fill'er up" write scripts (and monitor their output obviously) to the hard work for you in respect to discos linking and such
21:30:02 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
and submit those as you
21:30:20 [FoonDi]
oh well, thanks for your help, looks like I have to do it the sucky way
21:30:26 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
eh have a script do the hard work and then press "go"
21:30:29 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
idk these tings
21:32:24 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
anyway
21:32:27 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I am so sleepy
21:32:35 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
an crap and mess
21:32:39 [ZaphodBeeblebrox]
I is natta
21:32:56 [reosarevok]
natta!
21:32:57 [ListMyCDs]
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21:38:51 [mb-chat-logger]
New post: blog: Schema change release 2012-10-15 <http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1652>
21:39:59 [Freso]
Interested parties: Have a look at https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MusicBottle
21:40:54 [Freso]
And watch the page for updates to the project. :)
21:43:21 [ianmcorvidae]
Freso: you could call it MusicFace -- the idea being it's the pretty front to the data (the brain[sz]) :P
21:43:35 [ianmcorvidae]
or the edit system's the brains, either way :P
21:44:07 [Freso]
ianmcorvidae: There's A Page For That :p
21:45:11 [ianmcorvidae]
:P
21:45:33 [Freso]
(Or, well, there will be once anyone suggests something.)
21:46:08 [reosarevok]
WARFACE
21:46:17 [reosarevok]
Sorry, too much RockPaperShotgun
21:46:21 [Freso]
WarfAce?
21:46:38 [Freso]
You mean Wharf?
21:46:39 [reosarevok]
Carfawe
21:46:56 [reosarevok]
wefraca
21:47:10 [Freso]
Wet raga?
21:47:24 [Freso]
Sorry, I don't hear you very clearly.
21:50:00 [ListMyCDs]
I'm not currently able to add any new releases. Has anyone else some problems?
21:50:03 [CallerNo6]
it's like I keep saying, linguists are nothing but trouble
21:50:09 [ianmcorvidae]
ListMyCDs: hotfix in progress :)
21:50:16 [ListMyCDs]
ok
21:50:18 [ianweller]
Freso: hey musicbottle isn't a bad name
21:50:19 [ianmcorvidae]
ListMyCDs: workaround: stick a space in the disambig comment field
21:50:30 [Freso]
ianweller: I know. :)
21:50:34 [ianweller]
Freso: and the .org is available!
21:50:36 [ianweller]
which i assume you know as well.
21:50:39 [Freso]
Uh.
21:50:40 [kovacsur]
I propose MusicZombie, as it's going to consume MusicBrainz (data)
21:50:41 [Freso]
>_>
21:50:57 [ianweller]
and now someone is going to steal it, aren't they
21:51:00 [Freso]
ianweller: I actually hadn't looked it up...
21:51:05 [_5moufl]
A name for what?
21:51:06 [ListMyCDs]
ianmcorvidae: thanks!
21:51:13 [Freso]
They are. :( You should have [off]'d it.
21:51:39 [Freso]
Because you know how all the domain squatters are sitting around monitoring #musicbrainz chatlogs. :(
21:53:38 [reosarevok]
I'm sure you can do something with it anyway at some point
21:53:44 [ianweller]
yeh
21:53:51 [reosarevok]
In the worst case, ruaok can use it to make some cocktail page
21:53:59 [ianmcorvidae]
lol
21:54:01 [ianweller]
asdfljk
21:54:03 [_5moufl]
musicskull
21:54:09 [reosarevok]
it's cool indeed!
21:54:14 [ianweller]
haha
21:54:25 [ianweller]
reo stop being funny i almost got coca-cola up my nose again.
21:54:55 [dubwai]
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22:05:47 [KRSCuan]
Any idea what happened in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332484 ?
22:06:31 [KRSCuan]
I only moved a few tracks and relationships to the correct artist besides this edit.
22:06:59 [ianmcorvidae]
KRSCuan: may have to do with the schema change, that disambig comment was probably changed from null to the empty string, which may have triggered the conflict detection
22:07:42 [ianmcorvidae]
er, except that was an autoedit, so I guess that's a real bug
22:09:02 [mb-chat-logger]
New post: blog: Updating MusicBrainz slave instances for 2012-10-15 <http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=1663>
22:09:03 [KRSCuan]
Well, I don't really have enough info to file a ticket for this.
22:09:12 [derwin]
(btw, I <3 callerno6 learning python.. his type of sensibility is much needed in the coding community)
22:09:13 [KRSCuan]
Stuff that used to work suddenly doesn't work.
22:09:17 [derwin]
(re: musicbottle)
22:09:40 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 is all talk
22:09:43 [djpretzel]
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22:09:58 [ianmcorvidae]
KRSCuan: just link the edit and say what you did, we'll figure out what went wrong
22:10:37 [ianmcorvidae]
KRSCuan: I have a theory, in any case
22:10:44 [reosarevok]
CallerNo6: don't be then :p
22:11:57 [CallerNo6]
easier said than... oh, nevermind
22:12:19 [ianmcorvidae]
KRSCuan: hm, odd, adding things separately seems to have worked fine
22:12:49 [ianmcorvidae]
oh, I guess I'm also on beta, that could matter
22:13:47 [ianmcorvidae]
if beta's the reason it worked, it should be fixed as soon as our servers stop being slow and we actually get this hotfix deployed :/
22:25:10 [Freso]
Btw, if you're interested in "The Bottle", join at #musicbottle
22:26:45 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok adds a second vapourware channel to his join-at-login list then, because bookbrainz-devel wasn't enough :p
22:27:51 [derwin]
reosarevok: why is goodreads not good, have you looked into it etc?
22:28:23 [ianweller]
goodreads is more social oriented than data oriented
22:28:28 [ianweller]
iirc
22:28:38 [ianmcorvidae]
openlibrary is more what bookbrainz is competing with
22:29:00 [ianmcorvidae]
or, y'know, would be if it existed :P
22:29:26 [Freso]
reosarevok: :D
22:31:15 [skd5aner]
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22:31:23 [derwin]
" Open Library is a project of the non-profit Internet Archive " neat
22:35:56 [CallerNo6]
wait, is existence going to be on the test?
22:52:07 [kovacsur_]
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23:39:55 [monxton]
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23:40:45 [monxton]
hello busy room
23:42:29 [monxton]
in particular ianmcorvidae
23:42:37 [reosarevok]
hi monxton
23:42:42 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae just went for a walk
23:42:47 [reosarevok]
Should be back in a while
23:43:23 [monxton]
hi reo, I have a couple of edits which ISE if I try to approve them.
23:43:47 [monxton]
this one: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332739
23:44:02 [Freso]
monxton: Known after-update bugs.
23:44:08 [Freso]
monxton: They're working on it.
23:44:34 [monxton]
OK, it's not quite the same as the "comment" one
23:45:13 [reosarevok]
Hmm
23:45:19 [reosarevok]
ianmcorvidae ^ when you're back
23:46:10 [monxton]
another different one: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/19332322
23:47:59 [derwin]
callerno6 : We're also going to need some kind of cache, to not hit MusicBrainz (or other sites) over and over again. We're looking into MongoDB and possibly other NoSQL databases for now.
23:48:06 [derwin]
if you need cassandra expertise, feel free to ask
23:50:52 [monxton]
Freso, interested in your earlier remarks about work types for folk tunes
23:52:05 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 's ears prick up at the mention of trad works
23:53:09 [derwin]
trad skinheads?
23:53:51 [monxton]
CallerNo6: 11:32 yesterday