IRC log of musicbrainz on 2014-03-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:05:51 [Nyanko-sensei]
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- 00:32:22 [JesseW]
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- 00:34:46 [reosarevok]
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- 00:34:46 [reosarevok]
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- 00:43:57 [CallerNo6]
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- 01:02:59 [JesseW]
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- 01:53:50 [Nyanko-sensei]
- hi all. there's this venue-only single I found while looking through this band's history. https://musicbrainz.org/release/f89f1e2e-e1c9-4870-83b1-57874a862446/open_edits <-- should I add copies of the single for each cover?
- 01:54:37 [reosarevok]
- Heh
- 01:54:41 [reosarevok]
- That's a grey area
- 01:54:49 [reosarevok]
- Technically, yes
- 01:55:33 [reosarevok]
- But then, for a set of 100 handmade covers or whatever, adding 100 releases of each of which 1 item exists is kinda weird
- 01:55:39 [reosarevok]
- So - dunno :)
- 01:56:14 [JesseW]
- I'd use annotations for this.
- 01:56:48 [reosarevok]
- For the cover art? :p
- 01:57:24 [reosarevok]
- Anyway, dunno. In theory cover art uploads should be "this is this", not "this can be this or that ot that other one"
- 01:57:34 [reosarevok]
- But yeah, in practice that causes issues in some cases
- 01:57:43 [reosarevok]
- So, basically, do as you feel is best
- 01:57:57 [reosarevok]
- * reosarevok goes to bed because 4 AM is way too late
- 02:01:08 [Nyanko-sensei]
- good night :3
- 02:02:06 [Nyanko-sensei]
- as I got to La'cryma Christi and there's no way to add activity periods to artists
- 02:02:40 [Nyanko-sensei]
- these guys disbanded 2 times and regrouped again 2 years ago
- 02:17:32 [skd5aner]
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- 02:22:54 [meaning]
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- 02:24:27 [HibiscusKazeneko]
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- 02:41:08 [rtv]
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- 02:59:52 [crism]
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- 03:01:41 [crism]
- Is there any detailed documentation for the includes in the Web API? http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2 and http://python-musicbrainzngs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api/ show the includes that are allowed, but for instance what does area-rels return on a recording query?
- 03:07:59 [JesseW]
- crism: probably looking at the source is your best bet...
- 03:09:55 [crism]
- JesseW: which source? musicbrainzngs is opaque; it passes the includes parameter off to the server. Is source for the Web service available?
- 03:10:09 [crism]
- (Er, stupid question: MBz is open source, so of course.)
- 03:10:18 [crism]
- (Still, an API is really only as useful as its documentation…)
- 03:11:01 [CallerNo6]
- huh. //Are// there any area-recording rels? Ah. I see there's one.
- 03:11:45 [CallerNo6]
- [area]<was the recording location for>[recording]
- 03:11:56 [CallerNo6]
- That must predate places.
- 03:13:31 [CallerNo6]
- crism: in a perfect world, what level of detail would you like to see in the api docs? (maybe I'll have a go at improving them)
- 03:13:55 [CallerNo6]
- Would you want links to the possible entity-entity relationships? More?
- 03:16:23 [CallerNo6]
- In the meantime, the short answer is: here are the possible relationships → https://musicbrainz.org/relationships
- 03:17:38 [crism]
- CallerNo6: Something like that. Right now, I’m trying to guess by example, which means finding exemplars that actually trigger whatever it is… So first, the XML API docs seem out of date, since musicbrainzngs clearly supports area-rels on recording, but the API page doesn’t list that. Second, yes, I guess the kinds of relationships that’ll come back. For instance, artist-rels doesn’t do anything unless artists is included, b
- 03:18:41 [Gentlecat]
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- 03:20:51 [CallerNo6]
- crism, also, did you see/hear—?—a couple days after you asked about the state of rdf, http://linkedbrainz.org/ was announced.
- 03:24:55 [crism]
- Oh, very cool! Thanks, CallerNo6!
- 03:25:35 [drsaunders]
- callerNo6: That relationship is for when a specific city is credited but not a location (place) within the city
- 03:27:45 [CallerNo6]
- drsaunders: yeah, makes sense.
- 03:36:25 [JesseW]
- crism: the server code is here FWIW: https://github.com/metabrainz/musicbrainz-server/tree/HEAD/lib/MusicBrainz/Server/WebService
- 03:48:39 [CallerNo6]
- JesseW: are you still working on the table-level schema docs? As much as I like wikis, maybe that's a case where anybody who needs to know can read the source?
- 03:51:36 [CallerNo6]
- (I don't mean to discourage you. //I// certainly learned something from reading your docs.)
- 03:57:49 [sampsyo_]
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- 04:08:23 [Nyanko-sensei]
- ModBot is automagically updating the lengths when you submit DiscIDs? saves me the agony of waiting for my length fix edits to go through :3
- 04:15:26 [STalKer-X_i]
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- 04:18:01 [Nyanko-sensei]
- hi, can I get some discussion on this https://musicbrainz.org/edit/26798875 or some vote help?
- 04:28:49 [Nyanko-sensei]
- oh. so it was jesus2099 who changed the apostrophe
- 04:28:52 [Nyanko-sensei]
- ...
- 04:39:58 [JesseW]
- CallerNo6: I am still planning on working on them further, eventually. The hope is that they contain material that *isn't* obvious from the source, i.e. similarities between related tables, etc.
- 04:40:24 [JesseW]
- Nyanko-sensei: checking
- 04:40:36 [Nyanko-sensei]
- thanks
- 04:41:46 [JesseW]
- I'm not sure what to consider about that, though. I tend to focus on folk/celtic & filk music, myself.
- 04:44:33 [Nyanko-sensei]
- my reasoning to changing the single quote was because it's used like that on the official website and multiple shops
- 04:45:52 [Nyanko-sensei]
- this band discography in MB is full of transliterated things
- 04:46:00 [Nyanko-sensei]
- lots to fix
- 04:56:59 [JesseW]
- where, if anywhere, is the other sort of quote used?
- 04:57:10 [JesseW]
- * JesseW will be AFK for a while now, anyway...
- 05:00:45 [Nyanko-sensei]
- not sure. wanted to hear from jesus2099 myself...
- 05:19:23 [hawke]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26788450 -- does this seem right to you guys?
- 05:25:44 [CallerNo6]
- hawke: nope
- 05:53:51 [Freso]
- Nyanko-sensei: FWIW, I generally go by that cover-art that's been "mass produced" (even is "mass" != "a huge amount") should have their own release, but releases where each individual cover is unique should not. AFAICT, this case falls into the former category.
- 05:55:07 [Freso]
- CallerNo6: Nope.
- 05:55:32 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 can't remember the question
- 05:55:41 [Freso]
- CallerNo6 crism: Well, the Area recording relationship does predate places, I guess. But even then, it's still relevant.
- 05:56:17 [Freso]
- Sometimes all you know is "Recorded in London, UK" or "Recording live in Italy" etc.
- 05:56:36 [CallerNo6]
- That's terrible. But I accept that the world is not perfect.
- 05:57:01 [Freso]
- (I'd've preferred to not have distinction between Areas and Places since that line is blurry, but eh.)
- 05:57:31 [Freso]
- Oh. drsaunders already told you.
- 05:57:34 [Freso]
- * Freso just woke up
- 05:59:42 [CallerNo6]
- Areas being un-editable is a pretty big distinction.
- 06:02:20 [Freso]
- Yes, and I would have preferred them not to be as well. :)
- 06:03:52 [CallerNo6]
- But only people with guns can edit areas :-)
- 06:04:05 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 shouldn't smile when he says that.
- 06:05:01 [CallerNo6]
- (meanwhile, anybody with a can of spraypaint can edit a place)
- 06:11:39 [CallerNo6]
- huh. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/18/uc-berkeley-wikipedian_n_4987878.html
- 06:17:58 [Freso]
- "Gorman also hopes to help provide more diversity in the people editing Wikipedia. Surveys suggest 90 percent of the site's editors are male, and 80 percent white."
- 06:18:22 [Freso]
- If they really wanted to improve diversity, they should try and include non-"Westeners" instead.
- 06:22:51 [Nyanko-sensei]
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- 06:28:56 [Nyanko-sensei]
- <-- male, white, non-westerner...
- 06:29:24 [Nyanko-sensei]
- not that I like to edit wikipedia articles much, though
- 06:30:07 [Nyanko-sensei]
- besides, who knows how you look like behind a nickname and internet
- 06:32:43 [Freso]
- Nyanko-sensei: There was an article at some point about how under-"documented" events and places in e.g. South Africa were compared to the US and large parts of Europe.
- 06:33:07 [Freso]
- Of course I wasn't able to find it just now though. :(
- 06:33:34 [Nyanko-sensei]
- mostly because people over there have bad internets and not using wikipedia that much at the time?
- 06:34:05 [kshkr]
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- 06:34:17 [Nyanko-sensei]
- seriously, in SA it's faster to use pigeon mail to transfer data between 2 offices
- 06:35:19 [Nyanko-sensei]
- anyway, unicode vs typewriter apostrophe, huh. never thought about it...
- 06:35:26 [Freso]
- Whatever the reason, it doesn't change that there are still more non-white female western editors than any-colour any-gender non-western editors.
- 06:36:20 [Nyanko-sensei]
- that's true
- 06:37:00 [Freso]
- (That should be "non-white non-male western" editors for the queer folks that do not identify with neither "male" nor "female".)
- 06:38:24 [v6lur]
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- 06:42:07 [Nyanko-sensei]
- I see where the "La’cryma Christi" came from... http://www.lacrymachristi.jp/message.html
- 06:42:59 [Nyanko-sensei]
- I guess if they themselves wrote it with the unicode version instead of typewriter version - it must be the correct one
- 06:43:59 [Freso]
- Even if they didn't, it doesn't mean the Unicode is not the correct one.
- 06:44:55 [Nyanko-sensei]
- my personal preference is to use the typewriter one *programmer here, unicode ones will not fool your compiler
- 06:47:53 [Nyanko-sensei]
- one another thing would be the inability to match it to itunes and other stores' data, unless they change to unicode as well
- 06:53:49 [tinix]
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- 06:54:08 [tinix]
- hi all, is there a way to return url-rels with an artist search query?
- 06:54:22 [tinix]
- i tried http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?query=artist:shpongle&inc=url-rels for example, but no luck
- 06:55:50 [JesseW]
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- 08:24:00 [jesus2099]
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- 08:24:49 [jesus2099]
- hi Nyanko-sensei i have put an editnote to that old '→’ edit… for band members coming in / out / in out again you should make several band-member relationships, one for each period with its own dates :)
- 08:24:51 [STalKer-X]
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- 08:25:08 [Nyanko-sensei]
- thanks
- 08:25:18 [jesus2099]
- but the band’s date indeed you can only set the very first date and the very last (or presnt time)
- 08:26:04 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- jesus2099: Have you updated your JASRAC import script to deal with the recent server update? I had to uninstall it because it was generating a browser-breaking error message every time.
- 08:26:06 [jesus2099]
- SultS: wow you’re on IRC !
- 08:26:47 [SultS]
- jesus2099: not really a wow :)
- 08:27:04 [jesus2099]
- HibiscusKazeneko: i updated only minorly so that an added work will set the JASRAC ID field but… as this edit is not immediate (unlike work credits) i still set the annotation, but i will make it better as soon as this ticket is managed and/or i have some free time
- 08:27:17 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- ok
- 08:27:29 [jesus2099]
- HibiscusKazeneko: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-7359
- 08:28:13 [jesus2099]
- however i saw you screen image, are you sure you had the latest version ? i removed those alert errors long time ago…… or maybe there is one left somewhere rthat would only trigger in non-opera browsers… ? i should lok for that too
- 08:28:56 [jesus2099]
- HibiscusKazeneko: and also i remember you said there was not added URL anymore, it was an MB server bug that was just been fixed by now… when you added ISWC and URL at the same time, only ISWC would go through
- 08:29:07 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- hmm
- 08:29:12 [jesus2099]
- SultS: i answered your day‐of‐the‐weak topic
- 08:29:28 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- I voted for that MBS ticket, BTW
- 08:29:30 [jesus2099]
- SultS: you could also consider adding https://musicbrainz.org/artist/1f245b43-f9ba-4d02-a70b-cd08a99cd1c9/releases to the managed URL :)
- 08:29:35 [jesus2099]
- thanks Rachel !
- 08:29:46 [SultS]
- jesus2099: ok, I’ll check it out
- 08:29:50 [jesus2099]
- /artist/*/releases*
- 08:31:12 [jesus2099]
- it’s cool if you’re on IRC SultS… this way i can chat a little about those works, the Reincarnation versions… it seems you felt i was doing something weird, what did you think i was doing ? (i was just creating new versions for the updated lyrics works)
- 08:33:25 [jesus2099]
- Nyanko-sensei: don’t you think that it would be better to keep consistent La’cryma Christi on all releases inclding those where they made it look like dripping tear or typewriter ?
- 08:33:59 [Nyanko-sensei]
- don't really want to lose my edits by cancelling all the renames
- 08:34:16 [Nyanko-sensei]
- planned to wait till next week to edit them
- 08:34:54 [jesus2099]
- i had this case with BJC (https://musicbrainz.org/artist/9eab62e8-99f7-4aac-ab10-5192bd8f2807) they have two releases where they have added THE before their band name i did it on one of the releases but i never felt it was really very right… i don’t have strong o(pi)nion
- 08:35:13 [SultS]
- jesus2099: not something weird, just that as someone who has heard those recordings, didn’t think that they are nessesarily new works… I still don’t, but I see value in keeping the different credits
- 08:35:49 [jesus2099]
- the different credits is one good reason to kjeep separate
- 08:36:30 [jesus2099]
- but also the different lyrics… it’s ther same as when you have 3 versions of an album, coming with different cover art but same everything including catalogue number and EAN… we keep separate as cover art is part of what makes a release distinct
- 08:36:50 [jesus2099]
- melody is not the only component of a work
- 08:37:48 [Nyanko-sensei]
- ok. changed the names on the releases, recordings can wait till next week
- 08:37:57 [SultS]
- not different, but additional lyrics… which can easily be explained by a different edit of a recording… just like you don’t create a new work for an instrumental recording, you don’t automaticall create a new work for recordings with less/more lyrics
- 08:38:02 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- gah, I just got another HTML-wall error
- 08:38:22 [kshkr]
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- 08:38:36 [jesus2099]
- “you don’t automaticall create a new work for recordings with less/more lyrics” ← this is where i disagree, this is per definition changing the work so drastically that it’s new
- 08:38:59 [jesus2099]
- for later instr. version we sure ave that [x] instrumental checkbox that’s fine…
- 08:39:03 [SultS]
- jesus2099: not if it’s changing the work, but editing an existing recording
- 08:39:31 [jesus2099]
- i only speak about work here… new lyrics → new work :)
- 08:39:54 [SultS]
- jesus2099: well the “new” is the debatable part :)
- 08:40:12 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- How is it debatable?
- 08:40:16 [jesus2099]
- also i don’t really agree that later recording can be an edit of a earlier recording that has less lyrics in it… it’s more probably they took loops from earlier recording and they recorded some new parts
- 08:40:51 [SultS]
- jesus2099: at the moment we can’t really prove or deny the lyrics are new or just used 1st time in a later recording
- 08:40:55 [jesus2099]
- it is not debatable as we do have the booklets clearly showing twice as much more lyrics AND they even give the names of the new lyricists ;)
- 08:41:11 [jesus2099]
- be they new or old, we just list what we have in hands, no ?
- 08:41:19 [jesus2099]
- we didn’t put dates on those AR
- 08:41:31 [SultS]
- jesus2099: booklets are the reason why I change my vote
- 08:41:45 [jesus2099]
- they are just facts… we have a long version on one hand with specific lyrics and credits and then we have that short version with different credits…
- 08:42:02 [jesus2099]
- blessed be the booklets (that you uploaded, bless be you too !) ;)
- 08:42:43 [SultS]
- too bad there aren’t 2 different works in JASRAC though
- 08:43:52 [jesus2099]
- maybe the later will come… when was it realeased already
- 08:43:52 [jesus2099]
- ?
- 08:44:01 [jesus2099]
- there is a small delay, about few lmonths
- 08:44:12 [jesus2099]
- but some works are never sent to JASRAC
- 08:44:16 [SultS]
- they’ve been out for a while
- 08:45:30 [kshkr]
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- 08:47:16 [jesus2099]
- Nyanko-sensei: you can do this artist name change globally by editing the artist credit in the aliases tab of the artist. ('→’)
- 08:48:37 [Nyanko-sensei]
- oh. will give it a try
- 08:49:38 [jesus2099]
- it’s what i did that time
- 08:51:45 [SultS]
- jesus2099: I will try to recreate and fix the bug later… and possibly make it work on artist release list page
- 08:52:24 [jesus2099]
- you can just replace that line, it’s just a CSS selector, it’s easy to read i guess
- 08:53:00 [SultS]
- jesus2099: yeah, just doing other stuff atm :)
- 08:54:01 [jesus2099]
- np… i have unusually so many user scripts (most of them) to fix since last MBS update. :)
- 08:58:07 [SultS]
- I did actually fiddle with a script that would add a day to every day on every page in MB, which would would be much less code, but had some trouble with it… also I’m not sure if it would be that useful to use everywhere :) should be doable though…
- 09:00:55 [jonjomckay]
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- 09:04:37 [jesus2099]
- yay i thought of telling you some missing spots (artist birht etc.) but eventually i thought it was only useful for release dates, no ?
- 09:05:32 [SultS]
- it is, that’s what I meant for it not being that usefule everywhere :)
- 09:05:43 [SultS]
- useful*
- 09:06:00 [jesus2099]
- i understoof
- 09:08:37 [jesus2099]
- * jesus2099 hates websites where they say crap like « Unfortunately you cannot delete your account, alternatively you may want to change your password to something you will not be able to remember easily » (http://wikimapia.org/docs/Help/FAQ)
- 09:08:47 [jesus2099]
- it’s plain ILLEGAL man !
- 09:09:27 [jesus2099]
- * jesus2099 should add a black flag for wikimapia in https://justdelete.me
- 09:11:05 [ariscop]
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- 09:12:55 [jesus2099]
- let’s back little later, see your around :)
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- 09:31:00 [calum]
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- 09:31:32 [calum]
- Morning all!
- 09:32:14 [calum]
- I wonder if anyone can help? I've noticed a change to the web API. http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?fmt=json&query=artist%3AOlyam&type=artist&limit=25 used to work, but now doesn't
- 09:32:38 [calum]
- error": "type is not a valid parameter unless releases or release-groups are requested."
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- 09:38:12 [jesus2099]
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- 09:39:22 [jesus2099]
- it seems that now that google made their own web browser, they (their websites, search, mail, etc.) suck even more at being all browsers friendly by using more and more twisted code that mighjt only be tested in chomre…
- 09:40:39 [jesus2099]
- i don’t remember but having /ws/2/artist AND type=artist does seem redundant… http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?query=artist%3AOlyam&limit=25 woerks
- 09:41:37 [calum]
- jesus2099, Yes, that does. Wonder why I had type=artist in there too?
- 09:41:39 [jesus2099]
- https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2#Browse says artist has recording, release, release-group, work possible, not type
- 09:42:37 [calum]
- I'll give that a try - many thanks
- 09:43:07 [jesus2099]
- according to that page, “type” is reserved to release type
- 09:43:19 [jesus2099]
- (release‐group type actually)
- 09:43:23 [Mineo]
- calum's doing a search though, not a browse request
- 09:43:49 [jesus2099]
- Mineo: /ws/2/artist IS a browse, no ?
- 09:44:11 [jesus2099]
- but yeah calum’s URL was mixcing web based search with WS artist browse
- 09:44:48 [calum]
- This changed on Monday night around midnight GMT (roughly)
- 09:45:10 [jesus2099]
- http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=2531 :)
- 09:45:55 [jesus2099]
- maybe http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6067 it’s the only WS related ticket there
- 09:46:15 [jesus2099]
- maybe your type param was just ignored before or something, because it was not right apparently anyway
- 09:46:21 [jesus2099]
- calum: ↗
- 09:47:00 [kshkr]
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- 09:47:01 [jesus2099]
- i’m only guessing for no benefit of course, you better just change your links… :)
- 09:48:34 [calum]
- Yep, sounds like it might be a quite easy little change - hopefully no change to the data returned.
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- 09:53:02 [Mineo]
- hm, http://beta.musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2/Search says that type "Selects the index to be searched", but it seems to be only a valid parameter for releases and release groups
- 09:53:32 [jesus2099]
- yes, the rg type (compilation etc.)
- 09:53:34 [Mineo]
- and if you use it for a release or release group, it's not selecting an index but tells you to use a release group type
- 10:03:57 [danbri]
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- 10:07:53 [calum]
- Sorry, was away for a second
- 10:08:13 [calum]
- So, is the right thing still to do is remove the type=artist param?
- 10:09:07 [jesus2099]
- yes !
- 10:09:09 [jesus2099]
- :)
- 10:09:12 [calum]
- Good :)
- 10:09:19 [calum]
- Thanks for your help
- 10:09:33 [jesus2099]
- know that you can do various different calls depends of exc atly what you want to do
- 10:10:18 [jesus2099]
- there are several ways to get artist(s) etc., you can see that in https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2
- 10:10:22 [calum]
- Yep - I got this working a while ago though, and moved on to other things, so I've forgotten the intricacies
- 10:10:36 [calum]
- And you guys here are always very helpful and friendly
- 10:10:50 [jesus2099]
- you’re welcome !
- 10:17:09 [jesus2099]
- (i spoke for Mineo too i guess) :) good luck, bye (^_^)/
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- 11:15:03 [chirlu`]
- calum, jesus2099: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6067 was the ticket for stricter validation. It was temporarily suspended (http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6822) to give clients a time for upgrading, but is now active again.
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- 11:52:03 [jesus2099_]
- Elementary, my dear chirlu` ! Thanks. ;)
- 11:52:56 [jesus2099_]
- HibiscusKazeneko: are you here stil ?
- 11:53:06 [chirlu`]
- :) Mineo now also opened MBS-7363.
- 11:53:07 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- yea, but I shouldn't
- 11:53:34 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- I need to get up shortly
- 11:53:41 [jesus2099_]
- could you give me the context of your alert ? when ? and is it MAXI ERROR NO MBID (OMG BBQ WTF?) ? or Work create (or edit) error # ?
- 11:56:49 [jesus2099_]
- oh did she gone ? btw i go lunch…
- 11:58:15 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- Error #200
- 11:58:30 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- I'm still here, and it's 7 hours behind Paris time here
- 12:01:58 [chirlu`]
- Good morning, then. :-)
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- 12:42:54 [jesus2099]
- thanks HibiscusKazeneko i will look into it… and the context ? it’s when you add or when you edit work ?
- 12:42:56 [Nyanko-sensei]
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- 12:43:04 [jesus2099]
- and you browser is ?
- 12:43:06 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- Only when I add a work
- 12:43:15 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- I use Chrome
- 12:43:26 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- version 33.0.1750.152
- 12:44:23 [jesus2099]
- great thanks, i will remember that when i go on fixing this one… i have just fixed collection highlighter this morning…
- 12:46:25 [jesus2099]
- HibiscusKazeneko: i have version “33.0.1750.154 m” do you know what’s that m at the end of chrone version ?
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- 12:47:31 [HibiscusKazeneko]
- It must be a beta tag or something. I opened "About Google Chrome" and it says everything is up to date
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- 13:01:12 [RoboKike]
- ableton mashup tips
- 13:02:12 [reosarevok]
- Not that kind of musicbrainz :)
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- 13:27:54 [chirlu`]
- reosarevok: I am suspicious about this sentence: “Not every ensemble related to classical music is an Orchestra or Choir.” It sounds as if you want to reserve O/C for classical.
- 13:28:19 [jesus2099]
- really ?
- 13:28:23 [reosarevok]
- Not particularly I guess? I mean, that's obviously from where *I* am coming to it
- 13:28:36 [reosarevok]
- But if it's useful for jazz orchestras or whatever, no problem
- 13:28:51 [jesus2099]
- i don’t feel it makes it reserved for classical
- 13:28:57 [reosarevok]
- I just don't want people to see "hey, a string quartet! this is classical, so it must be an orchestra!"
- 13:29:03 [jesus2099]
- choirs are often used in 70s 80s pop
- 13:29:04 [chirlu`]
- Then why the “related to classical music” part?
- 13:29:09 [jesus2099]
- as well as orchestras
- 13:29:20 [reosarevok]
- Which some people *do*, because we have a surprising amount of string quartets entered with orchestra rels
- 13:29:48 [reosarevok]
- Well, because I'm not expecting anyone to go "Metallica, they have several instruments, they're totally an orchestra :p
- 13:29:55 [reosarevok]
- *orchestra"
- 13:30:05 [reosarevok]
- Yet I know it does happen for classical
- 13:30:17 [reosarevok]
- It's an additional note, not the definition, after all
- 13:30:19 [chirlu`]
- Wouldn’t be “Not every ensemble is an O or C …” better?
- 13:30:34 [jesus2099]
- chamber music is played by small orchestra (the size of the orchestra that fits in a chamber room)
- 13:30:39 [jesus2099]
- ;p
- 13:31:03 [chirlu`]
- Now we are back to the definition problem. ;-)
- 13:31:28 [chirlu`]
- “No, a chamber orchestra is not a MB Orchestra.”
- 13:31:33 [reosarevok]
- chirlu`: dunno, would it? I can't see anyone assuming a non-classical group is an orchestra just because it has instruments on it, which is the problem I want to solve
- 13:31:34 [chirlu`]
- *an
- 13:32:30 [reosarevok]
- So specifying classical *there*, which is not the type definition, sounds reasonable to me
- 13:32:52 [reosarevok]
- It's not like the definition was "an orchestra is a large instrumental ensemble who plays classical music"
- 13:33:17 [chirlu`]
- Well, perhaps I am oversensitive. :-)
- 13:33:43 [reosarevok]
- And no, we're not back to the definition problem - a chamber orchestra is an orchestra, a small chamber ensemble is not, and if the definition doesn't have a fixed border is because real life doesn't either
- 13:33:56 [reosarevok]
- That's why we have voting and human users, to decide on the grey areas
- 13:35:47 [reosarevok]
- I could say "orchestra is an instrumental ensemble of more than 20 members" or something but that'd be completely arbitrary and make little sense :p
- 13:36:40 [jesus2099]
- haha
- 13:36:58 [jesus2099]
- — quick we have to hire a new violin… for our MB classification
- 13:37:27 [reosarevok]
- hahaha
- 13:37:40 [Freso]
- I know of a couple of folk/trad. orchestras.
- 13:37:53 [Freso]
- FWIW.
- 13:38:04 [reosarevok]
- Sure :)
- 13:38:14 [reosarevok]
- I don't think there's anything in the current definition blocking that
- 13:38:20 [reosarevok]
- (I know a couple of folk choirs!)
- 13:38:26 [reosarevok]
- (not orchestras though :) )
- 13:38:27 [jesus2099]
- i nkow the spaghetti western orchestra, they are less than 20
- 13:38:49 [Freso]
- It was more...
- 13:38:50 [Freso]
- reosarevok | Not particularly I guess? I mean, that's obviously from where *I* am coming to it
- 13:38:56 [reosarevok]
- Well, sure
- 13:39:17 [reosarevok]
- I'm proposing it because I want to use it in classical music, since I edit it. I don't edit many folk orchestras :)
- 13:39:31 [chirlu`]
- Is a Big Band an orchestra?
- 13:39:36 [reosarevok]
- But that doesn't mean I have any interest in blocking it for other things
- 13:39:47 [jesus2099]
- it’s a big *BAND*
- 13:39:51 [jesus2099]
- ;)
- 13:40:07 [chirlu`]
- WP says also known as a jazz orchestra. *g*
- 13:40:09 [jesus2099]
- big band orchestra imo
- 13:40:40 [reosarevok]
- chirlu`: I know nothing about jazz ensembles. If jazz editors feel it is one, then it is one
- 13:41:00 [reosarevok]
- I'd obviously abstain in such a change since I don't have an opinion on the matter
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- 14:47:33 [xram]
- Hey, I would use a hand for voting for http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26801793
- 14:47:51 [xram]
- I need to change the format to vinyl after that
- 14:47:55 [xram]
- and discId blocks it
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- 15:24:22 [xram]
- erm Mass Merge Recordings doesn't work anymore ? :(
- 15:24:54 [kepstin-laptop]
- probably just has to be updated for the most recent mb server release
- 15:27:08 [xram]
- jesus2099 sadly not here
- 15:27:15 [xram]
- i'll check with him when he's back
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- 16:02:39 [calum]
- Out of mindless curiousity, how many requests per second do your APIs get?
- 16:02:46 [calum]
- Do you have any pretty graphs anywhere?
- 16:04:56 [reosarevok]
- hahaha
- 16:04:56 [reosarevok]
- https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152307570249491.1073741826.258967009490&type=1
- 16:05:51 [reosarevok]
- Our biggest metal band has their own bread and beer now to promote their last album :D
- 16:07:38 [Leftmost]
- Yum!
- 16:07:50 [Leftmost]
- * Leftmost should find that latest album.
- 16:12:53 [jesus2099]
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- 16:13:00 [jesus2099]
- xram and reosarevok : https://musicbrainz.org/edit/26804300
- 16:13:11 [jesus2099]
- MASS THING is fixed https://userscripts.org/scripts/diff/120382/978818 :)
- 16:13:21 [reosarevok]
- Thanks!
- 16:13:53 [reosarevok]
- Let's try
- 16:14:57 [jesus2099]
- yes please, there might be some bugs with NGS edits ! ;p
- 16:16:27 [jesus2099]
- i meant in classical edits but anyway… i did it in a rush and only tested it once so you’re welcome to test it :)
- 16:17:41 [reosarevok]
- Looks fine!
- 16:17:51 [jesus2099]
- * jesus2099 glad
- 16:18:00 [jesus2099]
- remainging some other scripts to fix…
- 16:18:37 [finarfin]
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- 16:19:15 [xram]
- worked great
- 16:21:01 [jesus2099]
- great for now… bb :)
- 16:23:17 [xram_]
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- 16:28:41 [chirlu`]
- calum: http://metabrainz.org/doc/Annual_Report/2012#Traffic
- 16:32:28 [calum]
- Thanks
- 16:33:52 [chirlu`]
- Anyone have an example of an artist with many performs-as relationships?
- 16:34:12 [chirlu`]
- Where “many” is at least 3. ;-)
- 16:34:56 [reosarevok]
- The obvious example would be http://musicbrainz.org/artist/79a09151-f6cc-48f9-9907-3fdd0b68373f/relationships
- 16:35:02 [danbri1]
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- 16:35:43 [chirlu`]
- Ah, thanks! Not obvious to me. :-)
- 16:37:08 [reosarevok]
- heh
- 16:37:23 [reosarevok]
- I meant because I think he's the one we always mention when talking of "performs as" :)
- 16:38:35 [reosarevok]
- (rather than because everyone should know about it :) )
- 16:40:05 [chirlu`]
- He certainly is a good example.
- 16:41:17 [calum]
- Who puts the tags in?
- 16:41:17 [calum]
- And how do they get reviewed?
- 16:41:40 [calum]
- For instance, "Justin Bieber"'s tags are amazing, black metal, gay, pop, teen pop
- 16:41:57 [xram_]
- sometimes I don't get the difference between "performs as" and an alias
- 16:42:10 [xram_]
- http://musicbrainz.org/artist/070d193a-845c-479f-980e-bef15710653e/aliases vs http://musicbrainz.org/artist/79a09151-f6cc-48f9-9907-3fdd0b68373f/aliases
- 16:42:16 [xram_]
- I have a feint idea though
- 16:42:35 [calum]
- amazing is totally subjective, and black metal probably isn't correct either...
- 16:42:52 [jesus2099]
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- 16:43:01 [jesus2099]
- calum: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4144
- 16:43:45 [chirlu`]
- calum: Every editor, and there is no review.
- 16:43:47 [CallerNo6]
- xram_: an alias is generally either a search hint or i18n
- 16:44:09 [chirlu`]
- CallerNo6: Unless it is a legal name. ;-)
- 16:44:27 [CallerNo6]
- ... or that!
- 16:45:04 [jesus2099]
- chirlu`: well there is also legal name aliases
- 16:45:24 [calum]
- chirlu`, Hmm - so a rogue editor could have some fun....
- 16:45:30 [jesus2099]
- and we create a new artist instead of alias, at least when we have to relationship them with that other name (MBS-333)
- 16:46:01 [chirlu`]
- calum: I sometimes think they already have.
- 16:46:07 [jesus2099]
- rogue editors are put in jail
- 16:46:21 [calum]
- Maybe there should be a blacklist of tags that can't be entered - anything subjective (best, worst, greatest) etc
- 16:46:28 [jesus2099]
- no it’s cool
- 16:46:34 [jesus2099]
- i like especially this kind of tags !
- 16:46:40 [jesus2099]
- and i’m not rogue
- 16:46:58 [calum]
- But greatest is totally useless. One person's greatest is another person's terrible.
- 16:47:08 [calum]
- Anything subjective is useless really
- 16:47:12 [jesus2099]
- anyway it’s MY tags
- 16:47:12 [CallerNo6]
- * CallerNo6 strongly disagrees with blacklisting tags.
- 16:47:17 [jesus2099]
- https://musicbrainz.org/user/jesus2099/tags
- 16:47:23 [chirlu`]
- Just don’t care too much about tags.
- 16:47:39 [chirlu`]
- I tend to ignore them.
- 16:48:01 [jesus2099]
- * jesus2099 strongly agrees with CallerNo6 ;)
- 16:48:04 [calum]
- CallerNo6, how come?
- 16:48:44 [jesus2099]
- shouldn’t this been ban ? https://musicbrainz.org/tag/mb%20sux
- 16:48:45 [CallerNo6]
- calum: tags are purely descriptive.
- 16:48:58 [jesus2099]
- héhé
- 16:49:18 [calum]
- CallerNo6, But "amazing" just means that the tagger considers it amazing. It doesn't help at all.
- 16:49:29 [jesus2099]
- it helps the tagger
- 16:49:37 [calum]
- What about a tag called "I hate this"
- 16:49:41 [jesus2099]
- this way the guy can retrieve all his amazing stuff
- 16:49:43 [calum]
- Again, it's useless to everyone else
- 16:49:45 [CallerNo6]
- I //do// agree that applying filters to tags can make them more useful.
- 16:49:46 [jesus2099]
- calum: i love this one !
- 16:50:03 [calum]
- So are tags only meant to be used by the tagger?
- 16:50:16 [chirlu`]
- xram_: Essentially aliases are for somewhat “similar” names.
- 16:50:35 [jesus2099]
- calum: they’re made for anything you want
- 16:50:44 [chirlu`]
- xram_: Such as (in the case of i18n) different spellings used in different languages,
- 16:50:46 [jesus2099]
- it’s how i understand that stuff
- 16:51:07 [chirlu`]
- or in the case of search hints misspellings etc.
- 16:51:08 [calum]
- jesus2099, Maybe there should be personal tags (anything goes), and useful public tags then?
- 16:51:19 [jesus2099]
- no it’s fun when both are fusion
- 16:51:34 [calum]
- jesus2099, it's a bit useless when they're together... :(
- 16:51:36 [jesus2099]
- like https://musicbrainz.org/tag/palindrome which startedd as CatCat’s only
- 16:51:51 [CallerNo6]
- calum: so, I agree, "amazing" isn't useful to me. But I think the idea is to let people say whatever they want first, and //then// decide what's useful.
- 16:51:57 [chirlu`]
- xram_: On the other hand, different artist entities are for completely unrelated names.
- 16:52:11 [calum]
- Palindrome is an objective tag. You can't argue if something is a palindrome or not.
- 16:52:26 [jesus2099]
- gna gna gna
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- 16:52:55 [jesus2099]
- and i defy anyone that those aren’t actually TOP MOUMOUTE → https://musicbrainz.org/tag/top%20moumoute
- 16:53:04 [reosarevok]
- calum: tags are *intended* to be subjective
- 16:53:28 [reosarevok]
- calum: genres, of course, are entirely subjective too, but our current tags aren't supposed to be a genre tool anyway
- 16:53:37 [CallerNo6]
- calum: but does 'palindrome' mean that it's a song about palindromes? a song containing palindromes?
- 16:53:55 [jesus2099]
- in this case it’s the title
- 16:53:59 [calum]
- Yep, genres are subjective too, but a little less so - you can't argue that Handel's Messiah is Death Metal.
- 16:54:00 [reosarevok]
- (they're, well, a tag tool - I tag stuff to remind myself to fix the data, others tag it for genres, and others because they like it)
- 16:54:01 [jesus2099]
- but it could be anything indeed
- 16:54:21 [jesus2099]
- isn’t messiah dead ?
- 16:54:25 [jesus2099]
- sort of ?
- 16:54:28 [CallerNo6]
- lol
- 16:54:36 [jesus2099]
- ok i have to go, sorry for that ;)
- 16:54:39 [calum]
- He's just a very naughty boy.
- 16:54:51 [CallerNo6]
- lol again
- 16:56:18 [calum]
- Maybe I had the wrong idea about tags then
- 16:56:45 [reosarevok]
- I mean, you certainly can use tags for genre
- 16:56:54 [calum]
- OK, I'm off now - thanks for your help today everyone - you're a very helpful friendly bunch.
- 16:56:57 [reosarevok]
- but we don't really have enough people doing that for it to be very useful :)
- 16:57:14 [reosarevok]
- (that's why most people try to take them from last.fm instead, for that, in Picard)
- 16:57:15 [calum]
- tags: helpful, friendly, palindrome, death metal.
- 16:57:17 [reosarevok]
- ok, have fun!
- 16:57:26 [calum]
- Adieu!
- 16:57:34 [CallerNo6]
- calum: the only use I can think of is this: what if I read a review I like (on CritiqueBrainz), and then see that the writer has tagged some of her collection with 'amazing'? Could be interesting.
- 16:58:22 [CatQuest]
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- 17:00:26 [CallerNo6]
- Also, if people want they can add namespaces to tags. So you get things like http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=genre&type=tag&method=indexed
- 17:00:45 [CallerNo6]
- messy, but descriptive
- 17:08:19 [Mineo]
- hey sampsyo, you're currently at the top of https://github.com/showcases/music :)
- 17:09:26 [Mineo]
- wow, there are actually 3 repositories related to mb in that list
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- 17:21:54 [sampsyo]
- wow!
- 17:21:57 [sampsyo]
- makes me want a better icon :)
- 17:22:42 [sampsyo]
- yeah, MB represent
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- 19:19:36 [KillDaBOB]
- What is everyone's opinion on album art that has "Parental Advisory" on it vs. the same image without? Same cover, different cover?
- 19:21:41 [reosarevok]
- As in, whether they're two releases?
- 19:23:14 [KillDaBOB]
- As in, I tried replacing some low quality album artwork with some higher quality artwork. The higher quality artwork doesn't have Parental Advisory on it, and that's the only difference between the two. I have 2 no votes on it so far.
- 19:23:52 [Zastai]
- i don't see the issue, unless the release is a "bleeped" one, i.e. the opposite of a Parental Advisory one
- 19:24:34 [Zastai]
- then again, non-US releases often also don't have the advisory sticker
- 19:26:18 [hawke1]
- KillDaBOB: It should probably be a separate release.
- 19:31:18 [KillDaBOB]
- blarg. not the answer i was looking for. i personally think the advisory sticker/print ruins a cover.
- 19:35:11 [Zastai]
- am not inclined to disagree
- 19:42:06 [kahu]
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- 19:44:16 [Zastai]
- for a release that combines two previously-released albums, but does not actually use the album names as its own title, should I nonetheless add both album names as a subtitle?
- 19:44:55 [Zastai]
- or, since it's only titled with the artist name, should I just assume "ALBUM1 / ALBUM2" as the "intended" release title?
- 19:47:03 [Zastai]
- never mind, if I google the EAN all hits refer to it as "ALBUM1 & ALBUM2" or "ALBUM1 And ALBUM2"
- 20:00:57 [CallerNo6]
- isn't the sticker usually on the plastic wrapping? not on the cover itself?
- 20:01:54 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop has seen stickers on both the wrapper and digipak cover/jewel case front of releases
- 20:02:10 [kepstin-laptop]
- sometimes the parental advisory one is printed as part of the cover art
- 20:02:34 [kepstin-laptop]
- hmm. beets 1.3.3 appears to require flask in order to run the tests
- 20:03:32 [CallerNo6]
- If it's printed as part of the cover image, I'd agree with hawke1, separate release.
- 20:14:32 [SultS]
- bitmap: was there some kind of label field check added to the new release editor? I’m seeing more and more release import edits, where no warning is given when label field is not empty with no label selected… for example: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26792901…
- 20:14:49 [SultS]
- http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26792901 *
- 20:17:47 [hawke1]
- KillDaBOB: So add it as a separate cover image, no need to replace the existing one.
- 20:19:33 [bitmap]
- SultS: well, it displays an error if you enter text in the label field, but if you leave it completely empty it doesn't
- 20:19:54 [bitmap]
- we've always allowed entering just a cat# though
- 20:20:51 [sampsyo]
- kepstin-laptop: yeah, the test suite includes some tests for plugins, some of which have extra dependencies
- 20:21:30 [SultS]
- bitmap: idk if it can be a problem on discogs importer part, but it certainly enters text intu the label field
- 20:21:34 [hawke1]
- KillDaBOB: Though if it’s not just a sticker they should *definitely* be different releases.
- 20:21:39 [kepstin-laptop]
- is there a complete list of which dependencies are needed for the tests somewhere? I got them to work by just adding flask, but I don't know if there's a hidden dep i'm not aware of in there :)
- 20:21:46 [SultS]
- into*
- 20:22:14 [bitmap]
- SultS: hmm, okay, I'll see if it's not triggering the validation somehow
- 20:22:27 [bitmap]
- which is very possible
- 20:22:31 [SultS]
- I’m testing it right now, and I’m not getting any errors. nothing like not selecting release artist
- 20:22:47 [bitmap]
- if you edit the label text, does it then trigger an error?
- 20:22:52 [bitmap]
- after switching tabs perhaps?
- 20:23:26 [sampsyo]
- kepstin-laptop: the .travis.yaml has the full list -- looks like "pylast flask responses" right now
- 20:24:27 [SultS]
- bitmap: no, still no errors (if release artist is selected and using “next” to switch tabs at least)
- 20:24:46 [kepstin-laptop]
- sampsyo: huh, the tests for 1.3.3 pass without pylast and responses installed
- 20:24:54 [kepstin-laptop]
- * kepstin-laptop doesn't have those packaged yet.
- 20:24:55 [bitmap]
- SultS: ok, I'll look into it
- 20:25:13 [SultS]
- cool :)
- 20:25:15 [sampsyo]
- responses, at least, is only a dependency for the latest git (I believe)
- 20:25:47 [sampsyo]
- not sure about pylast, perhaps we're out of date :)
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