IRC log of musicbrainz on 2014-03-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:05:51 [Nyanko-sensei]
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00:32:22 [JesseW]
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00:43:57 [CallerNo6]
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01:53:50 [Nyanko-sensei]
hi all. there's this venue-only single I found while looking through this band's history. https://musicbrainz.org/release/f89f1e2e-e1c9-4870-83b1-57874a862446/open_edits <-- should I add copies of the single for each cover?
01:54:37 [reosarevok]
Heh
01:54:41 [reosarevok]
That's a grey area
01:54:49 [reosarevok]
Technically, yes
01:55:33 [reosarevok]
But then, for a set of 100 handmade covers or whatever, adding 100 releases of each of which 1 item exists is kinda weird
01:55:39 [reosarevok]
So - dunno :)
01:56:14 [JesseW]
I'd use annotations for this.
01:56:48 [reosarevok]
For the cover art? :p
01:57:24 [reosarevok]
Anyway, dunno. In theory cover art uploads should be "this is this", not "this can be this or that ot that other one"
01:57:34 [reosarevok]
But yeah, in practice that causes issues in some cases
01:57:43 [reosarevok]
So, basically, do as you feel is best
01:57:57 [reosarevok]
* reosarevok goes to bed because 4 AM is way too late
02:01:08 [Nyanko-sensei]
good night :3
02:02:06 [Nyanko-sensei]
as I got to La'cryma Christi and there's no way to add activity periods to artists
02:02:40 [Nyanko-sensei]
these guys disbanded 2 times and regrouped again 2 years ago
02:17:32 [skd5aner]
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03:01:41 [crism]
Is there any detailed documentation for the includes in the Web API? http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2 and http://python-musicbrainzngs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api/ show the includes that are allowed, but for instance what does area-rels return on a recording query?
03:07:59 [JesseW]
crism: probably looking at the source is your best bet...
03:09:55 [crism]
JesseW: which source? musicbrainzngs is opaque; it passes the includes parameter off to the server. Is source for the Web service available?
03:10:09 [crism]
(Er, stupid question: MBz is open source, so of course.)
03:10:18 [crism]
(Still, an API is really only as useful as its documentation…)
03:11:01 [CallerNo6]
huh. //Are// there any area-recording rels? Ah. I see there's one.
03:11:45 [CallerNo6]
[area]<was the recording location for>[recording]
03:11:56 [CallerNo6]
That must predate places.
03:13:31 [CallerNo6]
crism: in a perfect world, what level of detail would you like to see in the api docs? (maybe I'll have a go at improving them)
03:13:55 [CallerNo6]
Would you want links to the possible entity-entity relationships? More?
03:16:23 [CallerNo6]
In the meantime, the short answer is: here are the possible relationships → https://musicbrainz.org/relationships
03:17:38 [crism]
CallerNo6: Something like that. Right now, I’m trying to guess by example, which means finding exemplars that actually trigger whatever it is… So first, the XML API docs seem out of date, since musicbrainzngs clearly supports area-rels on recording, but the API page doesn’t list that. Second, yes, I guess the kinds of relationships that’ll come back. For instance, artist-rels doesn’t do anything unless artists is included, b
03:18:41 [Gentlecat]
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03:20:51 [CallerNo6]
crism, also, did you see/hear—?—a couple days after you asked about the state of rdf, http://linkedbrainz.org/ was announced.
03:24:55 [crism]
Oh, very cool! Thanks, CallerNo6!
03:25:35 [drsaunders]
callerNo6: That relationship is for when a specific city is credited but not a location (place) within the city
03:27:45 [CallerNo6]
drsaunders: yeah, makes sense.
03:36:25 [JesseW]
crism: the server code is here FWIW: https://github.com/metabrainz/musicbrainz-server/tree/HEAD/lib/MusicBrainz/Server/WebService
03:48:39 [CallerNo6]
JesseW: are you still working on the table-level schema docs? As much as I like wikis, maybe that's a case where anybody who needs to know can read the source?
03:51:36 [CallerNo6]
(I don't mean to discourage you. //I// certainly learned something from reading your docs.)
03:57:49 [sampsyo_]
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04:08:23 [Nyanko-sensei]
ModBot is automagically updating the lengths when you submit DiscIDs? saves me the agony of waiting for my length fix edits to go through :3
04:15:26 [STalKer-X_i]
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04:18:01 [Nyanko-sensei]
hi, can I get some discussion on this https://musicbrainz.org/edit/26798875 or some vote help?
04:28:49 [Nyanko-sensei]
oh. so it was jesus2099 who changed the apostrophe
04:28:52 [Nyanko-sensei]
...
04:39:58 [JesseW]
CallerNo6: I am still planning on working on them further, eventually. The hope is that they contain material that *isn't* obvious from the source, i.e. similarities between related tables, etc.
04:40:24 [JesseW]
Nyanko-sensei: checking
04:40:36 [Nyanko-sensei]
thanks
04:41:46 [JesseW]
I'm not sure what to consider about that, though. I tend to focus on folk/celtic & filk music, myself.
04:44:33 [Nyanko-sensei]
my reasoning to changing the single quote was because it's used like that on the official website and multiple shops
04:45:52 [Nyanko-sensei]
this band discography in MB is full of transliterated things
04:46:00 [Nyanko-sensei]
lots to fix
04:56:59 [JesseW]
where, if anywhere, is the other sort of quote used?
04:57:10 [JesseW]
* JesseW will be AFK for a while now, anyway...
05:00:45 [Nyanko-sensei]
not sure. wanted to hear from jesus2099 myself...
05:19:23 [hawke]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26788450 -- does this seem right to you guys?
05:25:44 [CallerNo6]
hawke: nope
05:53:51 [Freso]
Nyanko-sensei: FWIW, I generally go by that cover-art that's been "mass produced" (even is "mass" != "a huge amount") should have their own release, but releases where each individual cover is unique should not. AFAICT, this case falls into the former category.
05:55:07 [Freso]
CallerNo6: Nope.
05:55:32 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 can't remember the question
05:55:41 [Freso]
CallerNo6 crism: Well, the Area recording relationship does predate places, I guess. But even then, it's still relevant.
05:56:17 [Freso]
Sometimes all you know is "Recorded in London, UK" or "Recording live in Italy" etc.
05:56:36 [CallerNo6]
That's terrible. But I accept that the world is not perfect.
05:57:01 [Freso]
(I'd've preferred to not have distinction between Areas and Places since that line is blurry, but eh.)
05:57:31 [Freso]
Oh. drsaunders already told you.
05:57:34 [Freso]
* Freso just woke up
05:59:42 [CallerNo6]
Areas being un-editable is a pretty big distinction.
06:02:20 [Freso]
Yes, and I would have preferred them not to be as well. :)
06:03:52 [CallerNo6]
But only people with guns can edit areas :-)
06:04:05 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 shouldn't smile when he says that.
06:05:01 [CallerNo6]
(meanwhile, anybody with a can of spraypaint can edit a place)
06:11:39 [CallerNo6]
huh. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/18/uc-berkeley-wikipedian_n_4987878.html
06:17:58 [Freso]
"Gorman also hopes to help provide more diversity in the people editing Wikipedia. Surveys suggest 90 percent of the site's editors are male, and 80 percent white."
06:18:22 [Freso]
If they really wanted to improve diversity, they should try and include non-"Westeners" instead.
06:22:51 [Nyanko-sensei]
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06:28:56 [Nyanko-sensei]
<-- male, white, non-westerner...
06:29:24 [Nyanko-sensei]
not that I like to edit wikipedia articles much, though
06:30:07 [Nyanko-sensei]
besides, who knows how you look like behind a nickname and internet
06:32:43 [Freso]
Nyanko-sensei: There was an article at some point about how under-"documented" events and places in e.g. South Africa were compared to the US and large parts of Europe.
06:33:07 [Freso]
Of course I wasn't able to find it just now though. :(
06:33:34 [Nyanko-sensei]
mostly because people over there have bad internets and not using wikipedia that much at the time?
06:34:05 [kshkr]
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06:34:17 [Nyanko-sensei]
seriously, in SA it's faster to use pigeon mail to transfer data between 2 offices
06:35:19 [Nyanko-sensei]
anyway, unicode vs typewriter apostrophe, huh. never thought about it...
06:35:26 [Freso]
Whatever the reason, it doesn't change that there are still more non-white female western editors than any-colour any-gender non-western editors.
06:36:20 [Nyanko-sensei]
that's true
06:37:00 [Freso]
(That should be "non-white non-male western" editors for the queer folks that do not identify with neither "male" nor "female".)
06:38:24 [v6lur]
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06:42:07 [Nyanko-sensei]
I see where the "La’cryma Christi" came from... http://www.lacrymachristi.jp/message.html
06:42:59 [Nyanko-sensei]
I guess if they themselves wrote it with the unicode version instead of typewriter version - it must be the correct one
06:43:59 [Freso]
Even if they didn't, it doesn't mean the Unicode is not the correct one.
06:44:55 [Nyanko-sensei]
my personal preference is to use the typewriter one *programmer here, unicode ones will not fool your compiler
06:47:53 [Nyanko-sensei]
one another thing would be the inability to match it to itunes and other stores' data, unless they change to unicode as well
06:53:49 [tinix]
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06:54:08 [tinix]
hi all, is there a way to return url-rels with an artist search query?
06:54:22 [tinix]
i tried http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?query=artist:shpongle&inc=url-rels for example, but no luck
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08:24:49 [jesus2099]
hi Nyanko-sensei i have put an editnote to that old '→’ edit… for band members coming in / out / in out again you should make several band-member relationships, one for each period with its own dates :)
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08:25:08 [Nyanko-sensei]
thanks
08:25:18 [jesus2099]
but the band’s date indeed you can only set the very first date and the very last (or presnt time)
08:26:04 [HibiscusKazeneko]
jesus2099: Have you updated your JASRAC import script to deal with the recent server update? I had to uninstall it because it was generating a browser-breaking error message every time.
08:26:06 [jesus2099]
SultS: wow you’re on IRC !
08:26:47 [SultS]
jesus2099: not really a wow :)
08:27:04 [jesus2099]
HibiscusKazeneko: i updated only minorly so that an added work will set the JASRAC ID field but… as this edit is not immediate (unlike work credits) i still set the annotation, but i will make it better as soon as this ticket is managed and/or i have some free time
08:27:17 [HibiscusKazeneko]
ok
08:27:29 [jesus2099]
HibiscusKazeneko: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-7359
08:28:13 [jesus2099]
however i saw you screen image, are you sure you had the latest version ? i removed those alert errors long time ago…… or maybe there is one left somewhere rthat would only trigger in non-opera browsers… ? i should lok for that too
08:28:56 [jesus2099]
HibiscusKazeneko: and also i remember you said there was not added URL anymore, it was an MB server bug that was just been fixed by now… when you added ISWC and URL at the same time, only ISWC would go through
08:29:07 [HibiscusKazeneko]
hmm
08:29:12 [jesus2099]
SultS: i answered your day‐of‐the‐weak topic
08:29:28 [HibiscusKazeneko]
I voted for that MBS ticket, BTW
08:29:30 [jesus2099]
SultS: you could also consider adding https://musicbrainz.org/artist/1f245b43-f9ba-4d02-a70b-cd08a99cd1c9/releases to the managed URL :)
08:29:35 [jesus2099]
thanks Rachel !
08:29:46 [SultS]
jesus2099: ok, I’ll check it out
08:29:50 [jesus2099]
/artist/*/releases*
08:31:12 [jesus2099]
it’s cool if you’re on IRC SultS… this way i can chat a little about those works, the Reincarnation versions… it seems you felt i was doing something weird, what did you think i was doing ? (i was just creating new versions for the updated lyrics works)
08:33:25 [jesus2099]
Nyanko-sensei: don’t you think that it would be better to keep consistent La’cryma Christi on all releases inclding those where they made it look like dripping tear or typewriter ?
08:33:59 [Nyanko-sensei]
don't really want to lose my edits by cancelling all the renames
08:34:16 [Nyanko-sensei]
planned to wait till next week to edit them
08:34:54 [jesus2099]
i had this case with BJC (https://musicbrainz.org/artist/9eab62e8-99f7-4aac-ab10-5192bd8f2807) they have two releases where they have added THE before their band name i did it on one of the releases but i never felt it was really very right… i don’t have strong o(pi)nion
08:35:13 [SultS]
jesus2099: not something weird, just that as someone who has heard those recordings, didn’t think that they are nessesarily new works… I still don’t, but I see value in keeping the different credits
08:35:49 [jesus2099]
the different credits is one good reason to kjeep separate
08:36:30 [jesus2099]
but also the different lyrics… it’s ther same as when you have 3 versions of an album, coming with different cover art but same everything including catalogue number and EAN… we keep separate as cover art is part of what makes a release distinct
08:36:50 [jesus2099]
melody is not the only component of a work
08:37:48 [Nyanko-sensei]
ok. changed the names on the releases, recordings can wait till next week
08:37:57 [SultS]
not different, but additional lyrics… which can easily be explained by a different edit of a recording… just like you don’t create a new work for an instrumental recording, you don’t automaticall create a new work for recordings with less/more lyrics
08:38:02 [HibiscusKazeneko]
gah, I just got another HTML-wall error
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08:38:36 [jesus2099]
“you don’t automaticall create a new work for recordings with less/more lyrics” ← this is where i disagree, this is per definition changing the work so drastically that it’s new
08:38:59 [jesus2099]
for later instr. version we sure ave that [x] instrumental checkbox that’s fine…
08:39:03 [SultS]
jesus2099: not if it’s changing the work, but editing an existing recording
08:39:31 [jesus2099]
i only speak about work here… new lyrics → new work :)
08:39:54 [SultS]
jesus2099: well the “new” is the debatable part :)
08:40:12 [HibiscusKazeneko]
How is it debatable?
08:40:16 [jesus2099]
also i don’t really agree that later recording can be an edit of a earlier recording that has less lyrics in it… it’s more probably they took loops from earlier recording and they recorded some new parts
08:40:51 [SultS]
jesus2099: at the moment we can’t really prove or deny the lyrics are new or just used 1st time in a later recording
08:40:55 [jesus2099]
it is not debatable as we do have the booklets clearly showing twice as much more lyrics AND they even give the names of the new lyricists ;)
08:41:11 [jesus2099]
be they new or old, we just list what we have in hands, no ?
08:41:19 [jesus2099]
we didn’t put dates on those AR
08:41:31 [SultS]
jesus2099: booklets are the reason why I change my vote
08:41:45 [jesus2099]
they are just facts… we have a long version on one hand with specific lyrics and credits and then we have that short version with different credits…
08:42:02 [jesus2099]
blessed be the booklets (that you uploaded, bless be you too !) ;)
08:42:43 [SultS]
too bad there aren’t 2 different works in JASRAC though
08:43:52 [jesus2099]
maybe the later will come… when was it realeased already
08:43:52 [jesus2099]
 ?
08:44:01 [jesus2099]
there is a small delay, about few lmonths
08:44:12 [jesus2099]
but some works are never sent to JASRAC
08:44:16 [SultS]
they’ve been out for a while
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08:47:16 [jesus2099]
Nyanko-sensei: you can do this artist name change globally by editing the artist credit in the aliases tab of the artist. ('→’)
08:48:37 [Nyanko-sensei]
oh. will give it a try
08:49:38 [jesus2099]
it’s what i did that time
08:51:45 [SultS]
jesus2099: I will try to recreate and fix the bug later… and possibly make it work on artist release list page
08:52:24 [jesus2099]
you can just replace that line, it’s just a CSS selector, it’s easy to read i guess
08:53:00 [SultS]
jesus2099: yeah, just doing other stuff atm :)
08:54:01 [jesus2099]
np… i have unusually so many user scripts (most of them) to fix since last MBS update. :)
08:58:07 [SultS]
I did actually fiddle with a script that would add a day to every day on every page in MB, which would would be much less code, but had some trouble with it… also I’m not sure if it would be that useful to use everywhere :) should be doable though…
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09:04:37 [jesus2099]
yay i thought of telling you some missing spots (artist birht etc.) but eventually i thought it was only useful for release dates, no ?
09:05:32 [SultS]
it is, that’s what I meant for it not being that usefule everywhere :)
09:05:43 [SultS]
useful*
09:06:00 [jesus2099]
i understoof
09:08:37 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 hates websites where they say crap like « Unfortunately you cannot delete your account, alternatively you may want to change your password to something you will not be able to remember easily » (http://wikimapia.org/docs/Help/FAQ)
09:08:47 [jesus2099]
it’s plain ILLEGAL man !
09:09:27 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 should add a black flag for wikimapia in https://justdelete.me
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09:12:55 [jesus2099]
let’s back little later, see your around :)
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09:31:00 [calum]
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09:31:32 [calum]
Morning all!
09:32:14 [calum]
I wonder if anyone can help? I've noticed a change to the web API. http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?fmt=json&query=artist%3AOlyam&type=artist&limit=25 used to work, but now doesn't
09:32:38 [calum]
error": "type is not a valid parameter unless releases or release-groups are requested."
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09:39:22 [jesus2099]
it seems that now that google made their own web browser, they (their websites, search, mail, etc.) suck even more at being all browsers friendly by using more and more twisted code that mighjt only be tested in chomre…
09:40:39 [jesus2099]
i don’t remember but having /ws/2/artist AND type=artist does seem redundant… http://musicbrainz.org/ws/2/artist?query=artist%3AOlyam&limit=25 woerks
09:41:37 [calum]
jesus2099, Yes, that does. Wonder why I had type=artist in there too?
09:41:39 [jesus2099]
https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2#Browse says artist has recording, release, release-group, work possible, not type
09:42:37 [calum]
I'll give that a try - many thanks
09:43:07 [jesus2099]
according to that page, “type” is reserved to release type
09:43:19 [jesus2099]
(release‐group type actually)
09:43:23 [Mineo]
calum's doing a search though, not a browse request
09:43:49 [jesus2099]
Mineo: /ws/2/artist IS a browse, no ?
09:44:11 [jesus2099]
but yeah calum’s URL was mixcing web based search with WS artist browse
09:44:48 [calum]
This changed on Monday night around midnight GMT (roughly)
09:45:10 [jesus2099]
http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=2531  :)
09:45:55 [jesus2099]
maybe http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6067 it’s the only WS related ticket there
09:46:15 [jesus2099]
maybe your type param was just ignored before or something, because it was not right apparently anyway
09:46:21 [jesus2099]
calum: ↗
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09:47:01 [jesus2099]
i’m only guessing for no benefit of course, you better just change your links… :)
09:48:34 [calum]
Yep, sounds like it might be a quite easy little change - hopefully no change to the data returned.
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09:53:02 [Mineo]
hm, http://beta.musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2/Search says that type "Selects the index to be searched", but it seems to be only a valid parameter for releases and release groups
09:53:32 [jesus2099]
yes, the rg type (compilation etc.)
09:53:34 [Mineo]
and if you use it for a release or release group, it's not selecting an index but tells you to use a release group type
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10:07:53 [calum]
Sorry, was away for a second
10:08:13 [calum]
So, is the right thing still to do is remove the type=artist param?
10:09:07 [jesus2099]
yes !
10:09:09 [jesus2099]
 :)
10:09:12 [calum]
Good :)
10:09:19 [calum]
Thanks for your help
10:09:33 [jesus2099]
know that you can do various different calls depends of exc atly what you want to do
10:10:18 [jesus2099]
there are several ways to get artist(s) etc., you can see that in https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Development/XML_Web_Service/Version_2
10:10:22 [calum]
Yep - I got this working a while ago though, and moved on to other things, so I've forgotten the intricacies
10:10:36 [calum]
And you guys here are always very helpful and friendly
10:10:50 [jesus2099]
you’re welcome !
10:17:09 [jesus2099]
(i spoke for Mineo too i guess) :) good luck, bye (^_^)/
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11:15:03 [chirlu`]
calum, jesus2099: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6067 was the ticket for stricter validation. It was temporarily suspended (http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-6822) to give clients a time for upgrading, but is now active again.
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11:52:03 [jesus2099_]
Elementary, my dear chirlu` ! Thanks. ;)
11:52:56 [jesus2099_]
HibiscusKazeneko: are you here stil ?
11:53:06 [chirlu`]
:) Mineo now also opened MBS-7363.
11:53:07 [HibiscusKazeneko]
yea, but I shouldn't
11:53:34 [HibiscusKazeneko]
I need to get up shortly
11:53:41 [jesus2099_]
could you give me the context of your alert ? when ? and is it MAXI ERROR NO MBID (OMG BBQ WTF?) ? or Work create (or edit) error # ?
11:56:49 [jesus2099_]
oh did she gone ? btw i go lunch…
11:58:15 [HibiscusKazeneko]
Error #200
11:58:30 [HibiscusKazeneko]
I'm still here, and it's 7 hours behind Paris time here
12:01:58 [chirlu`]
Good morning, then. :-)
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12:42:54 [jesus2099]
thanks HibiscusKazeneko i will look into it… and the context ? it’s when you add or when you edit work ?
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12:43:04 [jesus2099]
and you browser is ?
12:43:06 [HibiscusKazeneko]
Only when I add a work
12:43:15 [HibiscusKazeneko]
I use Chrome
12:43:26 [HibiscusKazeneko]
version 33.0.1750.152
12:44:23 [jesus2099]
great thanks, i will remember that when i go on fixing this one… i have just fixed collection highlighter this morning…
12:46:25 [jesus2099]
HibiscusKazeneko: i have version “33.0.1750.154 m” do you know what’s that m at the end of chrone version ?
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12:47:31 [HibiscusKazeneko]
It must be a beta tag or something. I opened "About Google Chrome" and it says everything is up to date
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13:01:12 [RoboKike]
ableton mashup tips
13:02:12 [reosarevok]
Not that kind of musicbrainz :)
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13:27:54 [chirlu`]
reosarevok: I am suspicious about this sentence: “Not every ensemble related to classical music is an Orchestra or Choir.” It sounds as if you want to reserve O/C for classical.
13:28:19 [jesus2099]
really ?
13:28:23 [reosarevok]
Not particularly I guess? I mean, that's obviously from where *I* am coming to it
13:28:36 [reosarevok]
But if it's useful for jazz orchestras or whatever, no problem
13:28:51 [jesus2099]
i don’t feel it makes it reserved for classical
13:28:57 [reosarevok]
I just don't want people to see "hey, a string quartet! this is classical, so it must be an orchestra!"
13:29:03 [jesus2099]
choirs are often used in 70s 80s pop
13:29:04 [chirlu`]
Then why the “related to classical music” part?
13:29:09 [jesus2099]
as well as orchestras
13:29:20 [reosarevok]
Which some people *do*, because we have a surprising amount of string quartets entered with orchestra rels
13:29:48 [reosarevok]
Well, because I'm not expecting anyone to go "Metallica, they have several instruments, they're totally an orchestra :p
13:29:55 [reosarevok]
*orchestra"
13:30:05 [reosarevok]
Yet I know it does happen for classical
13:30:17 [reosarevok]
It's an additional note, not the definition, after all
13:30:19 [chirlu`]
Wouldn’t be “Not every ensemble is an O or C …” better?
13:30:34 [jesus2099]
chamber music is played by small orchestra (the size of the orchestra that fits in a chamber room)
13:30:39 [jesus2099]
 ;p
13:31:03 [chirlu`]
Now we are back to the definition problem. ;-)
13:31:28 [chirlu`]
“No, a chamber orchestra is not a MB Orchestra.”
13:31:33 [reosarevok]
chirlu`: dunno, would it? I can't see anyone assuming a non-classical group is an orchestra just because it has instruments on it, which is the problem I want to solve
13:31:34 [chirlu`]
*an
13:32:30 [reosarevok]
So specifying classical *there*, which is not the type definition, sounds reasonable to me
13:32:52 [reosarevok]
It's not like the definition was "an orchestra is a large instrumental ensemble who plays classical music"
13:33:17 [chirlu`]
Well, perhaps I am oversensitive. :-)
13:33:43 [reosarevok]
And no, we're not back to the definition problem - a chamber orchestra is an orchestra, a small chamber ensemble is not, and if the definition doesn't have a fixed border is because real life doesn't either
13:33:56 [reosarevok]
That's why we have voting and human users, to decide on the grey areas
13:35:47 [reosarevok]
I could say "orchestra is an instrumental ensemble of more than 20 members" or something but that'd be completely arbitrary and make little sense :p
13:36:40 [jesus2099]
haha
13:36:58 [jesus2099]
— quick we have to hire a new violin… for our MB classification
13:37:27 [reosarevok]
hahaha
13:37:40 [Freso]
I know of a couple of folk/trad. orchestras.
13:37:53 [Freso]
FWIW.
13:38:04 [reosarevok]
Sure :)
13:38:14 [reosarevok]
I don't think there's anything in the current definition blocking that
13:38:20 [reosarevok]
(I know a couple of folk choirs!)
13:38:26 [reosarevok]
(not orchestras though :) )
13:38:27 [jesus2099]
i nkow the spaghetti western orchestra, they are less than 20
13:38:49 [Freso]
It was more...
13:38:50 [Freso]
reosarevok | Not particularly I guess? I mean, that's obviously from where *I* am coming to it
13:38:56 [reosarevok]
Well, sure
13:39:17 [reosarevok]
I'm proposing it because I want to use it in classical music, since I edit it. I don't edit many folk orchestras :)
13:39:31 [chirlu`]
Is a Big Band an orchestra?
13:39:36 [reosarevok]
But that doesn't mean I have any interest in blocking it for other things
13:39:47 [jesus2099]
it’s a big *BAND*
13:39:51 [jesus2099]
 ;)
13:40:07 [chirlu`]
WP says also known as a jazz orchestra. *g*
13:40:09 [jesus2099]
big band orchestra imo
13:40:40 [reosarevok]
chirlu`: I know nothing about jazz ensembles. If jazz editors feel it is one, then it is one
13:41:00 [reosarevok]
I'd obviously abstain in such a change since I don't have an opinion on the matter
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14:47:33 [xram]
Hey, I would use a hand for voting for http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26801793
14:47:51 [xram]
I need to change the format to vinyl after that
14:47:55 [xram]
and discId blocks it
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15:24:22 [xram]
erm Mass Merge Recordings doesn't work anymore ? :(
15:24:54 [kepstin-laptop]
probably just has to be updated for the most recent mb server release
15:27:08 [xram]
jesus2099 sadly not here
15:27:15 [xram]
i'll check with him when he's back
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16:02:39 [calum]
Out of mindless curiousity, how many requests per second do your APIs get?
16:02:46 [calum]
Do you have any pretty graphs anywhere?
16:04:56 [reosarevok]
hahaha
16:04:56 [reosarevok]
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152307570249491.1073741826.258967009490&type=1
16:05:51 [reosarevok]
Our biggest metal band has their own bread and beer now to promote their last album :D
16:07:38 [Leftmost]
Yum!
16:07:50 [Leftmost]
* Leftmost should find that latest album.
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16:13:00 [jesus2099]
xram and reosarevok : https://musicbrainz.org/edit/26804300
16:13:11 [jesus2099]
MASS THING is fixed https://userscripts.org/scripts/diff/120382/978818  :)
16:13:21 [reosarevok]
Thanks!
16:13:53 [reosarevok]
Let's try
16:14:57 [jesus2099]
yes please, there might be some bugs with NGS edits ! ;p
16:16:27 [jesus2099]
i meant in classical edits but anyway… i did it in a rush and only tested it once so you’re welcome to test it :)
16:17:41 [reosarevok]
Looks fine!
16:17:51 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 glad
16:18:00 [jesus2099]
remainging some other scripts to fix…
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16:19:15 [xram]
worked great
16:21:01 [jesus2099]
great for now… bb :)
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16:28:41 [chirlu`]
calum: http://metabrainz.org/doc/Annual_Report/2012#Traffic
16:32:28 [calum]
Thanks
16:33:52 [chirlu`]
Anyone have an example of an artist with many performs-as relationships?
16:34:12 [chirlu`]
Where “many” is at least 3. ;-)
16:34:56 [reosarevok]
The obvious example would be http://musicbrainz.org/artist/79a09151-f6cc-48f9-9907-3fdd0b68373f/relationships
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16:35:43 [chirlu`]
Ah, thanks! Not obvious to me. :-)
16:37:08 [reosarevok]
heh
16:37:23 [reosarevok]
I meant because I think he's the one we always mention when talking of "performs as" :)
16:38:35 [reosarevok]
(rather than because everyone should know about it :) )
16:40:05 [chirlu`]
He certainly is a good example.
16:41:17 [calum]
Who puts the tags in?
16:41:17 [calum]
And how do they get reviewed?
16:41:40 [calum]
For instance, "Justin Bieber"'s tags are amazing, black metal, gay, pop, teen pop
16:41:57 [xram_]
sometimes I don't get the difference between "performs as" and an alias
16:42:10 [xram_]
http://musicbrainz.org/artist/070d193a-845c-479f-980e-bef15710653e/aliases vs http://musicbrainz.org/artist/79a09151-f6cc-48f9-9907-3fdd0b68373f/aliases
16:42:16 [xram_]
I have a feint idea though
16:42:35 [calum]
amazing is totally subjective, and black metal probably isn't correct either...
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16:43:01 [jesus2099]
calum: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4144
16:43:45 [chirlu`]
calum: Every editor, and there is no review.
16:43:47 [CallerNo6]
xram_: an alias is generally either a search hint or i18n
16:44:09 [chirlu`]
CallerNo6: Unless it is a legal name. ;-)
16:44:27 [CallerNo6]
... or that!
16:45:04 [jesus2099]
chirlu`: well there is also legal name aliases
16:45:24 [calum]
chirlu`, Hmm - so a rogue editor could have some fun....
16:45:30 [jesus2099]
and we create a new artist instead of alias, at least when we have to relationship them with that other name (MBS-333)
16:46:01 [chirlu`]
calum: I sometimes think they already have.
16:46:07 [jesus2099]
rogue editors are put in jail
16:46:21 [calum]
Maybe there should be a blacklist of tags that can't be entered - anything subjective (best, worst, greatest) etc
16:46:28 [jesus2099]
no it’s cool
16:46:34 [jesus2099]
i like especially this kind of tags !
16:46:40 [jesus2099]
and i’m not rogue
16:46:58 [calum]
But greatest is totally useless. One person's greatest is another person's terrible.
16:47:08 [calum]
Anything subjective is useless really
16:47:12 [jesus2099]
anyway it’s MY tags
16:47:12 [CallerNo6]
* CallerNo6 strongly disagrees with blacklisting tags.
16:47:17 [jesus2099]
https://musicbrainz.org/user/jesus2099/tags
16:47:23 [chirlu`]
Just don’t care too much about tags.
16:47:39 [chirlu`]
I tend to ignore them.
16:48:01 [jesus2099]
* jesus2099 strongly agrees with CallerNo6 ;)
16:48:04 [calum]
CallerNo6, how come?
16:48:44 [jesus2099]
shouldn’t this been ban ? https://musicbrainz.org/tag/mb%20sux
16:48:45 [CallerNo6]
calum: tags are purely descriptive.
16:48:58 [jesus2099]
héhé
16:49:18 [calum]
CallerNo6, But "amazing" just means that the tagger considers it amazing. It doesn't help at all.
16:49:29 [jesus2099]
it helps the tagger
16:49:37 [calum]
What about a tag called "I hate this"
16:49:41 [jesus2099]
this way the guy can retrieve all his amazing stuff
16:49:43 [calum]
Again, it's useless to everyone else
16:49:45 [CallerNo6]
I //do// agree that applying filters to tags can make them more useful.
16:49:46 [jesus2099]
calum: i love this one !
16:50:03 [calum]
So are tags only meant to be used by the tagger?
16:50:16 [chirlu`]
xram_: Essentially aliases are for somewhat “similar” names.
16:50:35 [jesus2099]
calum: they’re made for anything you want
16:50:44 [chirlu`]
xram_: Such as (in the case of i18n) different spellings used in different languages,
16:50:46 [jesus2099]
it’s how i understand that stuff
16:51:07 [chirlu`]
or in the case of search hints misspellings etc.
16:51:08 [calum]
jesus2099, Maybe there should be personal tags (anything goes), and useful public tags then?
16:51:19 [jesus2099]
no it’s fun when both are fusion
16:51:34 [calum]
jesus2099, it's a bit useless when they're together... :(
16:51:36 [jesus2099]
like https://musicbrainz.org/tag/palindrome which startedd as CatCat’s only
16:51:51 [CallerNo6]
calum: so, I agree, "amazing" isn't useful to me. But I think the idea is to let people say whatever they want first, and //then// decide what's useful.
16:51:57 [chirlu`]
xram_: On the other hand, different artist entities are for completely unrelated names.
16:52:11 [calum]
Palindrome is an objective tag. You can't argue if something is a palindrome or not.
16:52:26 [jesus2099]
gna gna gna
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16:52:55 [jesus2099]
and i defy anyone that those aren’t actually TOP MOUMOUTE → https://musicbrainz.org/tag/top%20moumoute
16:53:04 [reosarevok]
calum: tags are *intended* to be subjective
16:53:28 [reosarevok]
calum: genres, of course, are entirely subjective too, but our current tags aren't supposed to be a genre tool anyway
16:53:37 [CallerNo6]
calum: but does 'palindrome' mean that it's a song about palindromes? a song containing palindromes?
16:53:55 [jesus2099]
in this case it’s the title
16:53:59 [calum]
Yep, genres are subjective too, but a little less so - you can't argue that Handel's Messiah is Death Metal.
16:54:00 [reosarevok]
(they're, well, a tag tool - I tag stuff to remind myself to fix the data, others tag it for genres, and others because they like it)
16:54:01 [jesus2099]
but it could be anything indeed
16:54:21 [jesus2099]
isn’t messiah dead ?
16:54:25 [jesus2099]
sort of ?
16:54:28 [CallerNo6]
lol
16:54:36 [jesus2099]
ok i have to go, sorry for that ;)
16:54:39 [calum]
He's just a very naughty boy.
16:54:51 [CallerNo6]
lol again
16:56:18 [calum]
Maybe I had the wrong idea about tags then
16:56:45 [reosarevok]
I mean, you certainly can use tags for genre
16:56:54 [calum]
OK, I'm off now - thanks for your help today everyone - you're a very helpful friendly bunch.
16:56:57 [reosarevok]
but we don't really have enough people doing that for it to be very useful :)
16:57:14 [reosarevok]
(that's why most people try to take them from last.fm instead, for that, in Picard)
16:57:15 [calum]
tags: helpful, friendly, palindrome, death metal.
16:57:17 [reosarevok]
ok, have fun!
16:57:26 [calum]
Adieu!
16:57:34 [CallerNo6]
calum: the only use I can think of is this: what if I read a review I like (on CritiqueBrainz), and then see that the writer has tagged some of her collection with 'amazing'? Could be interesting.
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17:00:26 [CallerNo6]
Also, if people want they can add namespaces to tags. So you get things like http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=genre&type=tag&method=indexed
17:00:45 [CallerNo6]
messy, but descriptive
17:08:19 [Mineo]
hey sampsyo, you're currently at the top of https://github.com/showcases/music :)
17:09:26 [Mineo]
wow, there are actually 3 repositories related to mb in that list
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17:21:54 [sampsyo]
wow!
17:21:57 [sampsyo]
makes me want a better icon :)
17:22:42 [sampsyo]
yeah, MB represent
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19:19:36 [KillDaBOB]
What is everyone's opinion on album art that has "Parental Advisory" on it vs. the same image without? Same cover, different cover?
19:21:41 [reosarevok]
As in, whether they're two releases?
19:23:14 [KillDaBOB]
As in, I tried replacing some low quality album artwork with some higher quality artwork. The higher quality artwork doesn't have Parental Advisory on it, and that's the only difference between the two. I have 2 no votes on it so far.
19:23:52 [Zastai]
i don't see the issue, unless the release is a "bleeped" one, i.e. the opposite of a Parental Advisory one
19:24:34 [Zastai]
then again, non-US releases often also don't have the advisory sticker
19:26:18 [hawke1]
KillDaBOB: It should probably be a separate release.
19:31:18 [KillDaBOB]
blarg. not the answer i was looking for. i personally think the advisory sticker/print ruins a cover.
19:35:11 [Zastai]
am not inclined to disagree
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19:44:16 [Zastai]
for a release that combines two previously-released albums, but does not actually use the album names as its own title, should I nonetheless add both album names as a subtitle?
19:44:55 [Zastai]
or, since it's only titled with the artist name, should I just assume "ALBUM1 / ALBUM2" as the "intended" release title?
19:47:03 [Zastai]
never mind, if I google the EAN all hits refer to it as "ALBUM1 & ALBUM2" or "ALBUM1 And ALBUM2"
20:00:57 [CallerNo6]
isn't the sticker usually on the plastic wrapping? not on the cover itself?
20:01:54 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop has seen stickers on both the wrapper and digipak cover/jewel case front of releases
20:02:10 [kepstin-laptop]
sometimes the parental advisory one is printed as part of the cover art
20:02:34 [kepstin-laptop]
hmm. beets 1.3.3 appears to require flask in order to run the tests
20:03:32 [CallerNo6]
If it's printed as part of the cover image, I'd agree with hawke1, separate release.
20:14:32 [SultS]
bitmap: was there some kind of label field check added to the new release editor? I’m seeing more and more release import edits, where no warning is given when label field is not empty with no label selected… for example: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26792901…
20:14:49 [SultS]
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/26792901 *
20:17:47 [hawke1]
KillDaBOB: So add it as a separate cover image, no need to replace the existing one.
20:19:33 [bitmap]
SultS: well, it displays an error if you enter text in the label field, but if you leave it completely empty it doesn't
20:19:54 [bitmap]
we've always allowed entering just a cat# though
20:20:51 [sampsyo]
kepstin-laptop: yeah, the test suite includes some tests for plugins, some of which have extra dependencies
20:21:30 [SultS]
bitmap: idk if it can be a problem on discogs importer part, but it certainly enters text intu the label field
20:21:34 [hawke1]
KillDaBOB: Though if it’s not just a sticker they should *definitely* be different releases.
20:21:39 [kepstin-laptop]
is there a complete list of which dependencies are needed for the tests somewhere? I got them to work by just adding flask, but I don't know if there's a hidden dep i'm not aware of in there :)
20:21:46 [SultS]
into*
20:22:14 [bitmap]
SultS: hmm, okay, I'll see if it's not triggering the validation somehow
20:22:27 [bitmap]
which is very possible
20:22:31 [SultS]
I’m testing it right now, and I’m not getting any errors. nothing like not selecting release artist
20:22:47 [bitmap]
if you edit the label text, does it then trigger an error?
20:22:52 [bitmap]
after switching tabs perhaps?
20:23:26 [sampsyo]
kepstin-laptop: the .travis.yaml has the full list -- looks like "pylast flask responses" right now
20:24:27 [SultS]
bitmap: no, still no errors (if release artist is selected and using “next” to switch tabs at least)
20:24:46 [kepstin-laptop]
sampsyo: huh, the tests for 1.3.3 pass without pylast and responses installed
20:24:54 [kepstin-laptop]
* kepstin-laptop doesn't have those packaged yet.
20:24:55 [bitmap]
SultS: ok, I'll look into it
20:25:13 [SultS]
cool :)
20:25:15 [sampsyo]
responses, at least, is only a dependency for the latest git (I believe)
20:25:47 [sampsyo]
not sure about pylast, perhaps we're out of date :)
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