IRC log of musicbrainz on 2015-04-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

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01:45:31 [peaveyman]
What in the world is going on with all the 502 bad gateway errors
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07:41:54 [Nyanko-sensei]
http://beta.musicbrainz.org/edit/32831624 <-- edits like this one are bound to fail, I assume?
07:54:10 [pankkake]
why?
07:54:37 [pankkake]
oh, they aren't applied immediately anymore after 3 votes, they need 48h
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08:10:08 [Freso]
Nyanko-sensei: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/2015/04/07/server-update-2015-04-06/
08:10:30 [Nyanko-sensei]
oh
08:10:55 [CatQuest]
I agree and understood why this is, but in practice it maes things really annoying
08:11:19 [CatQuest]
I was thinking about making an ademenum.
08:11:20 [CatQuest]
like..
08:11:42 [CatQuest]
"if there are 4 or more votes shorten the extra 48 hours with 5 maybe?
08:11:51 [CatQuest]
or if there is 7+ shorten it by 24
08:12:35 [Freso]
"Every yes vote shortens the duration by 3 hours, every no vote extends it."
08:12:48 [Freso]
That'd be interesting.
08:16:00 [Nyanko-sensei]
then I can safely merge the rest of the copies
08:16:01 [CatQuest]
yea, exactly
08:16:09 [CatQuest]
:)
08:16:19 [Nyanko-sensei]
I thought that something went wrong when applying and it got stuck
08:16:50 [CatQuest]
oh yea, I can sea that. me too, even though I knew about it
08:17:16 [CatQuest]
when I first made a merge like that
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08:32:03 [CatCat]
as long as it doesn't extend it indefinitely. heh, 30+ no votes would close it by then heh
08:32:21 [CatCat]
altough it would mean that perhaps edits that really need eyes get more eyes atleast
08:32:47 [newbie|2]
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08:33:58 [CatCat]
so 1 week unless 3 yes votes. for merges 3votes +48 hours with each yes vote -3 hours and each no vote +3 hours but never longer than 48 hours and never shorter tan +1 hour extra
08:34:11 [CatCat]
s/merges/destructive edits/
08:34:39 [skbharman]
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08:34:55 [CatCat]
wich means destructive edits would *need* more eyes to close sooner
08:34:58 [CatCat]
i like that idea
08:51:01 [skbharman]
I
08:54:33 [skbharman]
i'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but to increase my chances to become an auto-editor, is there something extra important that I should know? i'm thinking of getting someone to at least LOOK at my chances to become one :). but i'm not sure for how long one should have been a user and so. or is it like users that have added/edited things daily for 240 years that are up for suggestions? i've read the f
08:54:40 [skbharman]
if this is a proper channel to ask that question.
08:55:35 [hibiscuskazeneko]
It's not just the quality of your edits they look at; it's how you handle different situations.
08:57:13 [skbharman]
ok. and that's like conflicts with other users? how those are handled?
08:58:02 [mezod]
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09:00:26 [zas]
How is called the CD packaging which looks like a digipak but without the plastic tray (often just cardboard with a foam to retain the CD) ? Is it still a digipak ?
09:04:43 [MBChatLogger]
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09:04:43 [MBChatLogger]
is logging
09:04:43 [asimov.freenode.net]
Users on #musicbrainz: MBChatLogger mezod skbharman McVegan ruaok zas loujine ijabz2 Junior_ ariscop shredpub bluey- STalKer-X KRS-Cuan hibiscuskazeneko Nyanko-sensei spinza atsampson kepstin Diaoul kloeri chungy johtso_ ir2ivps9 Vorpal night199uk finarfin luks adhawkins shardz Reventlov drsaunde lidel michiwend hawke CatQuest Powlow Xof CatCat gnu_andrew Shepard xplat Freso DWSR belak CallerNo6 obXiDeJSFQ Jormangeud KingJ spooky kurros mr_maxis muesli randybias kossy
09:04:43 [asimov.freenode.net]
Users on #musicbrainz: Kovensky Tykling Jinx Muz mb-chat-logger _5moufl kahu dwg legoktm Rasi mat_ flamingspinach djinni` pankkake chrysn_ pprkut navap1 Ackis yvesr_ DarkerAudit _flow_ bricas MightyJay kuno canidae bitmap noobie Lotheric ManiacTwister phunyguy danoply zag Lastfm_bot Rundll derwin balrog djpretzel nioncode ljunkie sampsyo praest76 Arthur_Rainbow dom96 Leo_Verto dan6a_ srotta D4RK-PH0ENiX popperz Leftmost storrgie PWHQ blast_hardcheese desrt smgoller
09:04:43 [asimov.freenode.net]
Users on #musicbrainz: rsrchboy hays darvon pfallenop Rondom ocharles_ d356_ Tecfan drwx Guest74450 VxJasonxV johtso hidgw ratsupremacy Clint innocuous Afterster
09:06:24 [skbharman]
has anyone got some good tip regarding converting from lossy to lossy. i have a lot of ogg files (256 kbps) that i'd like to convert to mp3. and i KNOW lossy to lossy means lossy. but any tip how to get it as little quality loss as possible?
09:20:20 [ariscop_]
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09:27:15 [Freso]
skbharman: Well, the higher bitrate of the target conversion, the less double-lossy it'll be... but that could still potentially mean that the new files will be bigger even as they are of lower quality.
09:34:05 [skbharman]
Freso: thanks. yeah. i'd bet i really can't tell difference between a 256 kbps ogg and a 128~192 kbps mp3 in the car anyway. so it's probably better to keep them ogg and convert to mp3 when needed. thanks for your input!
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10:10:56 [reosarevok]
zas: was working at a local venue while Lux Ohr were playing, liked them, went to like them on Facebook and you're there already :D
10:11:03 [reosarevok]
How do you find all kinds of random obscure stuff :p
10:11:20 [reosarevok]
Weird obscure Finnish band, under 600 likes... one of them zas :p
10:12:51 [zas]
:)
10:13:08 [zas]
ex-reverend bizarre member in Lux Ohr
10:17:11 [zas]
i'm following almost all projects in which Kimi Kärki is involved, most are worth listening, and yes, always obscure and bizarre ;)
10:17:44 [reosarevok]
It was supposed to be a stoner festival, so when that stuff came up it was like "wait this is great but wtf" :D
10:18:47 [arthurlutz]
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10:19:40 [arthurlutz]
hi I'm using the VMs from https://beta.musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Server/Setup
10:19:41 [zas]
E-Musikgruppe Lux Ohr isn't stoner for sure ;) but its members (ie. Kimi) are involved in various stoner/doom projects ... btw either the band's name is weird
10:20:59 [arthurlutz]
I've done the replication, the reindex, but now I'm stuck on the fact that localhost:8080 redirects me to musicbrainz official server (HTTP 302)
10:20:59 [arthurlutz]
any tips ?
10:33:08 [Freso]
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10:37:58 [mohaa]
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10:40:45 [Leftmost]
Woo, got rid of a CD stub.
10:51:09 [hibiscuskazeneko]
* hibiscuskazeneko has never attempted to work with those
10:54:09 [Leftmost]
Neither have I, but sometimes I add a disc ID that comes up against one.
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14:20:55 [d4rkie]
CD stubs are non-existent for j-rock...
14:25:05 [hibiscuskazeneko]
Probably not enough people own the physical CDs to create them
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15:05:20 [d4rkie]
I have a couple hundred of physical CDs. all indies...
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15:43:31 [hibiscuskazeneko]
Oh boy, more 502a
15:43:35 [hibiscuskazeneko]
502s*
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17:54:25 [Shepard]
http://www.bl.uk/projects/save-our-sounds
17:54:42 [Shepard]
I wonder if they're in need of some metadata for that :)
17:56:17 [Zastai]
CatQuest: did some digging: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/32852196
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18:24:49 [Zastai]
coud I get someone to look at http://musicbrainz.org/edit/32822775 and http://musicbrainz.org/edit/32822790 and confirm that I have the right idea there. There's an annotation on Eminem not to add that RG, but I don't know how official that is.
18:40:24 [pankkake]
it doesn't share any recording, so why should it be in the same release group?
18:42:07 [Zastai]
hence my post here - I wasn't sure how much sense the annotation made. having said that, the release-add seems to be a clear duplicate
18:42:20 [pankkake]
yeah
18:42:54 [Zastai]
ah, WP to the rescue
18:42:56 [Zastai]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relapse_%28Eminem_album%29#Relapse:_Refill_and_Relapse_2
18:43:22 [Zastai]
Relapse: Refill is basically an expanded release; the extra tracks were apparently released separately digitally
18:43:55 [Zastai]
so then it makes more sense - it's like a separate release of a bonus disc, which would not warrant a separate RG
18:47:49 [CallerNo6]
I'm confused. is disc 1 the same recordings or no?
18:48:22 [pankkake]
at least currently, it only is new recordings
18:48:49 [pankkake]
but maybe a disc 1 should be added if it was released with the original recordings. it wasn't clear in the wp article
18:57:39 [CallerNo6]
Zastai, about annotations, they aren't ever 'official' on their own, although they may reflect style guidelines (like with SPAs) I guess.
18:58:12 [Zastai]
well yes, but annotation that is the result of one or more IRC discussions will be more official than just one editor's opinion
18:58:20 [Zastai]
http://musicbrainz.org/release/a5afe885-aac7-4dd0-98c6-e59507663d8c is the CD version - that has a disc 1 that matches the regular Relapse
18:59:47 [Zastai]
with digital releases, they probably decided to release the second disc separately (but since it's tagged as bootleg, perhaps that's even been added for no other reason than a rip of the bonus disc being "released" by pirates)
19:00:24 [pankkake]
it might not exist at all, indeed
19:00:26 [CallerNo6]
Zastai, true, an annotation may indicate some amount of consensus. I would expect most editors to take that into consideration.
19:00:56 [Zastai]
which seems to match up with those edits I linked - that editor refers to "rembo10/headphones", which is apparently a toolto help with downloading music from usenet
19:02:00 [pankkake]
haha, and here I thought it was a music tagger
19:02:48 [Zastai]
it may do some tagging too, I suppose :-)
19:04:00 [pankkake]
https://musicbrainz.org/edit/30248927 "scene releases" yep, just a pirate rip
19:04:08 [pankkake]
I'm merging recordings and removing
19:04:12 [CatQuest]
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19:06:44 [Zastai]
some more googling suggests that "headphones" is also an MB indexer. I do hope this rembo10 character is using his own MB server setup instead of hitting the main website
19:06:52 [reosarevok]
Haha
19:06:57 [reosarevok]
Well, now yes, mostly
19:07:21 [reosarevok]
(because they suddenly sent insane amounts of requests so we started ratelimiting them to hell and back)
19:07:22 [kepstin-laptop]
lets just say that... we've applied some convincing in that direction from our side.
19:07:42 [Zastai]
:-)
19:17:59 [CallerNo6]
at what point does a pirate rip of disc 2 warrant a new RG?
19:18:13 [CallerNo6]
(if any)
19:19:28 [reosarevok]
Well, a bootleg RG isn't even displayed by default so whatever :p
19:19:40 [pankkake]
well I can't find a CD it would be from
19:19:47 [reosarevok]
(arguably never though? But dunno - I'm a bit confused with bootlegs in general)
19:20:03 [pankkake]
it seems to be a real bootleg (material unfound elsewhere), not just a rip
19:21:00 [pankkake]
still it shares 7/11 recordings
19:23:36 [reosarevok]
Hmm
19:23:56 [reosarevok]
I'd probably leave it as a separate RG in that case, since I doubt anyone would see it as an equivalent of the whole (2xCD?) thing
19:24:02 [reosarevok]
But honestly it barely matters :p
19:25:55 [CallerNo6]
I guess, yeah, I'd rather have it out of the main RG.
19:35:43 [murk]
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19:52:52 [CatQuest]
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19:59:07 [CatQuest]
Zastai: awesome!
19:59:07 [CatQuest]
that wikipedia link is bad request tho :(
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20:16:13 [Zastai]
which one?
20:17:26 [Zastai]
nvm i see it
20:18:54 [Zastai]
looks like the edit note editor maps the kanji to html escapes but then doesn't handle them properly. the link on the RG works tho: http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/8f9464f5-3021-461b-853f-4c5194f4bfaa
20:20:55 [reosarevok]
Enter a ticket if it's broken I guess
20:21:01 [Zastai]
must've mispasted in first edit note - link does work in the second note I just added
20:21:56 [Zastai]
(but unlike a WP link on a release page, the edit not overview shows the raw escapes instead of the kanji)
20:22:17 [Zastai]
lots and lots of 502s yesterday and today :-(
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20:52:13 [CatQuest]
yep. loads
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23:23:41 [Leftmost]
reosarevok, ping
23:23:56 [reosarevok]
Leftmost, pong
23:25:18 [Leftmost]
Hey. We were discussing how to go about putting together style documents for BB on Friday and thought that asking you for feedback/suggestions would be a good idea.
23:27:56 [Leftmost]
Basically, we're not sure how to structure discussion to avoid the pitfalls of requiring consensus while still striving for it.
23:30:01 [reosarevok]
Well, don't require it would be my suggestion :p
23:30:27 [reosarevok]
Get someone (ideally not just one person but a small group, 3?) to decide
23:31:11 [reosarevok]
Definitely do approach everyone for suggestions and opinions, mind - but just make sure that you have a structure so that one person complaining very loudly doesn't derail the whole thing
23:31:42 [reosarevok]
Of course, some sort of proper voting system might work too, but we haven't been able to play with that much (as you might have seen the best we have for style votes are wiki pages :p)
23:32:35 [reosarevok]
So I can't say it'd work or not, but I suspect if we had something in MB like a banner saying "there are open style votings, you can have your say" and a proper voting system, it'd get more people involved
23:33:08 [luks]
does it make sense to write style documents when you can't even edit a book?
23:33:36 [Leftmost]
luks, you'll be able to as soon as we release again.
23:33:59 [Leftmost]
Interesting thought, reosarevok. Thanks for the feedback.
23:34:25 [luks]
the thing that discogs did recently with all the new databases was definitely a great idea
23:34:31 [luks]
http://www.biblio.gs/
23:34:35 [Leftmost]
Does a mailing list make sense to you?
23:34:48 [luks]
it's just a fancy UI for editing and displaying JSON files
23:34:58 [luks]
very quick to implement
23:35:37 [reosarevok]
Leftmost: I'd say no if you can get something proper in-site, but dunno. Generally, mailing lists are something *I* like as a user, but a lot of non-techy people do not
23:35:48 [reosarevok]
So it might restrict the amount of people who participate
23:36:06 [reosarevok]
(which is why I try to also have discussions in the forum when looking for opinions)
23:36:31 [reosarevok]
But I'm not too sure :)
23:37:31 [reosarevok]
luks: hmm. they seem to have done without any kind of artist entities for this?
23:37:34 [reosarevok]
Interesting
23:37:52 [reosarevok]
Not the way I'd do it at all, but interesting
23:38:09 [reosarevok]
(I mean, their "artist" entries seem to be a free text search kind of)
23:38:30 [luks]
it's a great way to start
23:38:58 [reosarevok]
Yeah, I guess
23:39:19 [luks]
I get the feeling that bookbrainz is focusing on many things, but not on being a book database
23:39:35 [reosarevok]
For books I'd definitely have gone the way of importing the Open Library data and letting people clean it up, since it's big and nice but just needs merging
23:39:47 [Leftmost]
luks, not on being a book database? What do you mean?
23:40:20 [luks]
Leftmost: you "launched" the project without a way to describe a book
23:40:23 [reosarevok]
For something like movies where there's no good existing open data that I know of though, that makes more sense to me
23:41:02 [luks]
for me, editing raw JSON files would and having a new UI for that would be a better start
23:41:05 [Leftmost]
luks, in what way? And what do you think we're focused on if not being a book database?
23:41:38 [luks]
Leftmost: less focus on technology and more on books
23:42:40 [luks]
you can build something like http://www.biblio.gs/ in a couple of days
23:42:41 [Leftmost]
I don't know what that means. My focus is on creating a book database, I assure you.
23:42:55 [luks]
and once you have that, users can start adding books and give you feedback
23:43:24 [luks]
while you have a number of code repositories, python project, nodejs project, etc. and still can't edit books
23:43:25 [Leftmost]
And we can store it all in a nice, pain-in-the-ass way that makes it more difficult to work with it in the future.
23:44:20 [luks]
you are not going to get the model right on the first attempt
23:44:53 [luks]
so you might as well use simpler and more flexible way to do things
23:45:10 [Leftmost]
No, and I don't plan on getting it right on the first attempt. JSON will just make it harder to change the model, though, as it puts the burden on us to update every file consistently when the model changes.
23:45:44 [Leftmost]
It's a moot point, though. In a week or so we'll release an update that allows editing, gathers more information, etc.
23:47:00 [reosarevok]
I mean, while I'd agree it shouldn't be announced widely without proper editing, arguably the official release was a soft release thing, so it probably doesn't matter much
23:47:01 [Leftmost]
BB development has happened in the open for quite some time and this is the first I've heard these plans, so closing the barn doors isn't going to help much.
23:47:09 [reosarevok]
I mean, AFAICT it hasn't really been announced much
23:47:48 [reosarevok]
So as long as the full announcement is made with all the basic stuff in place...
23:47:53 [Leftmost]
We didn't make any broad announcements because we wanted to get feedback from established MB community members who understood that it's in a beta state and have a general idea of what the future should look like.
23:49:29 [reosarevok]
I still think you should import OpenLibrary ;) But I saw you were planning to have some script for that, which I guess is also better than nothing
23:49:42 [luks]
ok, I'm sorry
23:50:58 [luks]
it just seems to me that the project is focusing on the wrong things and repeating some of MBs mistakes, but I'm not really helping
23:52:07 [luks]
I guess I was frustrated with the project since the time it was a haskell experiment
23:52:38 [Leftmost]
I've had my frustrations as well, I just think that we're in a place where the best thing to do is move forward.
23:52:46 [luks]
ok
23:54:23 [Leftmost]
luks, if there are specific issues that you think we should address, beyond the lack of editing since that's in place in the source repo, we're happy to hear them.